GT4 WRS Week 49 : "Swiss swinging"

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Had my first solid session and came up with some solid spilts:

25.771
47.077
1'06.995

Lost probably .5 in the last corner because I couldn't make it all the way around without braking. This combo may be a challenge but it sure is fun 👍
 
:yuck:
30.086
55.031

not my cup of tee, but.... it's growing on me :)
different style of driving that's for sure
nothing like being this far behind :( LOL
Cyril.... you have a twist in you :P
 
What it boils down to with me, is that in a normal week certain drivers (and I acknowedge that they do deserve respect for this skill) can get to the point of shaving 1000's off a lap within an hour or so.

Some of us only really get to that point by Monday night, which could mean putting in 20-30 times the number of laps the 'gifted' put into a combo.

This week it took you 2 hrs, to get some mediocre (for you) clean splits.

For some of us (especially me) that would mean a weeks worth of effort, just to get to the same point as you.
And, another to get to the 1000's shaving stage.

Hence some of us won't be running.

It's not that we lack motivation, if we did, we wouldn't do lap after lap after lap, over days and days, to do our best.

It wasn't what you said, exactly, more the fact that it's not fun to be reminded of our short-comings.

in-adventantly or not.

Anyway, enough arguing has been going on lately, so I will let this lie. And appologise for any offence caused to individuals.
Though I do feel that my point is valid.

Neil
 
You have a good point, there, Neil (about most of us taking n-th laps to achieve something "mediocre" as opposed to "others" making it in 30 minutes).

What I always end up wondering is this - and I would like a honest answer from the GT4 Gods in here:

If it takes you, say, 30 minutes to 1 hour to obtain the final lap times that you are going to post at the end of the week, by how many more light years would you be beating us poor ol' bastards (;)) if you put into a given combo, say, 4 to 5 hours or more?

Or do you truly reach your absolute limit in only 1 hour or so, and everything else after that is just wasted time?

I really would like to know, as I have been wondering for a while :D

The Wizard.
 
TheWizard
You have a good point, there, Neil (about most of us taking n-th laps to achieve something "mediocre" as opposed to "others" making it in 30 minutes).

What I always end up wondering is this - and I would like a honest answer from the GT4 Gods in here:

If it takes you, say, 30 minutes to 1 hour to obtain the final lap times that you are going to post at the end of the week, by how many more light years would you be beating us poor ol' bastards (;)) if you put into a given combo, say, 4 to 5 hours or more?

Or do you truly reach your absolute limit in only 1 hour or so, and everything else after that is just wasted time?

I really would like to know, as I have been wondering for a while :D

The Wizard.
Click to expand...
Generally, I reach my limit after an hour or so.
 
ballstothewall
What it boils down to with me, is that in a normal week certain drivers (and I acknowedge that they do deserve respect for this skill) can get to the point of shaving 1000's off a lap within an hour or so.

Some of us only really get to that point by Monday night, which could mean putting in 20-30 times the number of laps the 'gifted' put into a combo.

This week it took you 2 hrs, to get some mediocre (for you) clean splits.

For some of us (especially me) that would mean a weeks worth of effort, just to get to the same point as you.
And, another to get to the 1000's shaving stage.

Hence some of us won't be running.

It's not that we lack motivation, if we did, we wouldn't do lap after lap after lap, over days and days, to do our best.

It wasn't what you said, exactly, more the fact that it's not fun to be reminded of our short-comings.

in-adventantly or not.

Anyway, enough arguing has been going on lately, so I will let this lie. And appologise for any offence caused to individuals.
Though I do feel that my point is valid.

Neil
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👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 :: RIGHT ON :: 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 
I can go forever, lap after lap, and chicks tend to like that :sly:

'doublepostmeister'
 
@ The Wizard- I am certainly no GT4 God, but I can generally hustle a car 'round track pretty good.

Don't kid yourself. Guys put in more time than they let on. I don't know if it's some sort of macho, geeky, cool thing to say you only did 30 minutes, and got this fantastic time, but I'm too old to give a **** about being cool.:p

I'm here to say that in order to get to the top, you need to put in laps! I think anyone that says they can achieve the types of laps needed to win in a one hour session is full of BS.
If they say they reach their peak in 30 minutes to an hour, they will never win at the top levels IMO, because the thousandths required to win don't come at all easy.
It makes me laugh, all of this talk sometimes about "I only did 2 laps and got this craptastic time so I must be a GT God!" lol What a load! But hey. If that's what floats ur boat.... whatever.

Now I don't drive near as much as I used to. But that's because I know the tracks and physics pretty good now, and also I don't have as much spare time. So in the past, say 6-8 months ago, I may have put in 4-5 sessions. Now I usually do 2, max 3. When I say "session", it is at least 1 hour, max 2 hours. Again, IMO unless you are touching up a race, anything less than say 30-45 minutes is a waste because it takes time to get in the groove. More than 2-2.5 hours is wasting time because then you are just repeating mistakes instead of really concentrating on precise control.
So yeah. I guess you could say that one of the really great drivers could do 20-30 laps and have a mediocre to fair result, but to be truly fast, consistent, and in contention to win at the top levels, it takes LAPS!!! :)

Of course these comments have to do with our type of racing in WRS. When true OLR is available, it's a whole new ballgame. :trouble:
 
My T's (after more hours than I care to admit :p )

T1: 0'26.584
T2: 0'47.612
T3: 1'07.196

If I put all my best splits together, I get a time .9 faster than I am currently. :dunce:

But I'm really enjoying this combo, reminds me of a quote from the late Possum Bourne, when he was asked how about his driving style: "Back it in and stand on it!"
 
In week 28. GTmaniac submitted this time after 20 laps. (I don't know how I remember this stuff)

Anyway, his time was 'only' ~0.4 off the fastest time.

Just a useless fact really :lol:

I'm off to run this stupid thing, probably won't get around the track to post splits, but we'll see...
 
Thank you for the reply, MinorShunt 👍

Yeah, I agree with you, for the most part. I also think that they are acting "cool" when they say they only did it in 30 minutes to 1 hour, hence the question I asked. I really wanted to hear those people honestly say how much time they put into a given week and how much time it takes them to get the magic lap.

But I also wanted to know if they would keep improving say if they put 4 or 5 more hours into it, or if that is their true limit.

I guess my real question is:

when you - and by you I mean any fast guy/girl that finishes in the Overall Top 5 consistantly - submit your time, is that your true absolute limit and no matter how many more laps you would put into the combo you would not get any better? Or do you just get tired of lapping, after one given point, and you are happy about your result, because you know that it will put you in the Top 5 nonetheless, therefore you just stop, even if this means you haven't reached your limit, yet?

In more clear words:

Is the time you submit your absolute, total, unbeatable limit?

Or could you beat it, if you put say one or two extra hours into it, but you just don't do it, because you know your time is good enough already to earn you a win or a Top 5 placement?

And if you could actually beat it, by running a few extra hours, by how much would you improve?

I guess where I am really trying to go with this is to know if what the Usual Suspects post is their best, or if they could beat us by an extra second, if they really tried, but they just don't do it, because they know what they have is enough to already beat most of us.

Sorry for the complexity of this post, but I just can't put it in any better words, right now... :D

The Wizard.
 
my first 30 weeks of wrs, i use to keep banging away at the laps till i reached the peak

now days, i will spend a good hour or two on each combo ~ just because im in so many different series now... GC, STWS, SCS, WRS, GTPlay, soon JGCT

so just because of time restraints i limit myself, but with more laps there is always room for that little bit more left on track

@ MinorShunt...

everything you typed goes against what i do, not to be cool as your saying....
but just the matter of fact that probly my
5 laps = 15-25 laps for some

today as a matter of fact, i tried out a combo ~ Mercedes CLK Touring Car @ Autumn Ring, i got within .032 of my Audi A4 Winning GC time
in 6 LAPS consecutively improving each lap

and i peak'd... so its not a load of bull**** Ok?

@ Wizard...

each track has its limits, i just get close to them alot quicker then usual
and then it takes the extra time to chisel away at it
 
Casio
In week 28. GTmaniac submitted this time after 20 laps. (I don't know how I remember this stuff)

Anyway, his time was 'only' ~0.4 off the fastest time.

Just a useless fact really :lol:
Click to expand...

But how many hours Total has he spent on GT4?

TheWizard
Thank you for the reply, MinorShunt 👍

Yeah, I agree with you, for the most part. I also think that they are acting "cool" when they say they only did it in 30 minutes to 1 hour, hence the question I asked. I really wanted to hear those people honestly say how much time they put into a given week and how much time it takes them to get the magic lap.
Click to expand...
this is not true, I really did do 70mins in WRS 47 and i had a nice time. Not my best but a good time. It all depends on how much total hours you have played GT4 and how good you are at seeing the limit and how consistent you are. Dan can put down a lovely time in 1 - 2 hours that can take me 5 - 6 hours to beat. But in saying that he has probably raced twice or three times as much GT4 as me.

TheWizard
But I also wanted to know if they would keep improving say if they put 4 or 5 more hours into it, or if that is their true limit.
Click to expand...
Yep, they will

TheWizard
I guess my real question is:

when you - and by you I mean any fast guy/girl that finishes in the Overall Top 5 consistantly - submit your time, is that your true absolute limit and no matter how many more laps you would put into the combo you would not get any better? Or do you just get tired of lapping, after one given point, and you are happy about your result, because you know that it will put you in the Top 5 nonetheless, therefore you just stop, even if this means you haven't reached your limit, yet?
Click to expand...
Only been about 3 races in all of GT4 that i went to the limit. I normally submit after I've had enough even if i see another .5 to be had, I normally just couldnt be bothered racing any more.
TheWizard
In more clear words:

Is the time you submit your absolute, total, unbeatable limit?

Or could you beat it, if you put say one or two extra hours into it, but you just don't do it, because you know your time is good enough already to earn you a win or a Top 5 placement?

And if you could actually beat it, by running a few extra hours, by how much would you improve?
Click to expand...

Well i can normally improve by at least .3 - .5 with most WRS times i submit, and a good go would mean about 5 - 6 hours for that combo. That amount of time should get me within .1 - .2 of my limit.
TheWizard
I guess where I am really trying to go with this is to know if what the Usual Suspects post is their best, or if they could beat us by an extra second, if they really tried, but they just don't do it, because they know what they have is enough to already beat most of us.

Sorry for the complexity of this post, but I just can't put it in any better words, right now... :D

The Wizard.
Click to expand...

I only try hard for BC races, and probably the BC qualifier, all other races i rarely but in more time and effort than i "can be bothered too" If we had some sort of prize money im sure i could finish higher than i normally do and try more than the 1 - 2hours i do for most combos these days.


Bottom line, the more total GT4 hours you have the faster it takes you to get close to your limit (within .5 - .6) It only takes me about 1 - 1.5hours to get that someones sooner for me. But to improve would take another 3 - 4 -5 hours +. And unless the race is important I normally cant be bothered :lol:

Just for the hell of it the races i did try hard at where...

Six Of The Best race 6 at the nurb.
WRS 5 ( i was learning the nurb)
WRS 3 (new york in SRT-4)

BC5 Race 7 (check my sig..)

WRS 104 in GT3

Other than those combo's i cant really remember trying very hard to get those last .1's. I spent at least 6 - 7 hours on those combos, some as high as 12.

The more you play the less time it takes for you to get a "decent" time, but it still takes hours to get the "perfect" time. Plus the more GT4 you play the lower those limits go. A "decent" time for Dan/Curtis/Hugo is probably close to "perfect" for me...
 
anyways... my attempt at this wrs so far...

0'27.167
0'49.211
1'09.019

no way in hell can i challenge for a win, never mind podium
 
Board Updated

I race probably 10 - 20 hours every week on the WRS combo...sounds like a lot, and I guess it is. I usually have a crack late at night before I go to bed. Last night I probably raced about 2.5 hours to get my 1'10.6 at T3, but like I said, I suck at rallying. I tell you what though, nothing's gonna stop me giving it everything I got, and I'll be submitting regardless of whether I have a craptacular lap or something acceptable. I'm a million monkeys kinda guy...you know what I'm talking about SHig :sly:
 
After about a 30 minute bash, I'd set a lap that I thought was a good base to start from, and was getting ready to put the controller down for the night.

Then I realised I clipped a wall, so if I saved my ghost it would be dirty. 🤬

I then proceeded to spend the next 45 minutes chasing it, and never beating it! :banghead:

As a consequence, I have no clean splits to post from my 1hour+ session tonight. 👎

And to think I said I wasn't going to compete this week...
 
Did this in an ad during "Prison Break", looks like all that groundwork last night stayed in my brain:

T1: 0'27.007
T2: 0'49.233
T3: 1'08.957

And two seconds at the line...I am REALLY loving this combo, I'm not a natural rallyer but throwing this thing sideways is some serious fun 👍
 
I didn't have time to run this combo yesterday, instead I spent all my evening on the replay stuff, so my first practice session will be tonight :D

About the off-topic topic that was running here, I think we mix 2 different questions. Question one is what's the limit to a driver's performance ? question two is how fast does a driver reach his limit ?
Our aliens have a very high limit and reach it fast. If anyone of us would compete against holl01, hOt6o4bOi, Zikwik or their kin on any given combo with no time limit, we wouldn't have a single chance to beat them. And if the combo had to be run with a time limit or a maximum number of laps, we wouldn't have a chance either.
I know that I learn a track pretty fast, but my limit is rather low (mainly because I don't persist much).
In the early days of GT4, I raced a lot with NielsG, sjaak68 and banjobear with a race format that was : practice 25 laps and submit your best time. I won all of the first races because I was learning the tracks faster than they do. Now that everybody is used to the game physics, they are regularly way faster than I am.

To conclude, there's no need to take offence when holl01 says that he ran half a hour and got a crap time, which happens to be faster than what you could expect after a full day. Even if he ran half an hour this week, perhaps he had recently run a similar combo for several hours not long ago. And anyway it is a crap time for him. It's just measured on a different scale than yours.
 
The thing is. Just because he is hol/hot/zik/whoever, doesn't make them automatically faster. There is an absolute limit for a lap time in GT4 that we are all capable of. How I see it is that they have the ability to get as close to that lap in a very short amount of time.

I'm sure if my full-time job was to do nothing but one WRS combo, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. I could probaby get close to these guys, maybe even beat them, so could anyone else who did this many laps.

In my opinion, being able to put down these down laps so quickly is what I have more respect for then their actual times. Take last week for an example, I spent 3+ hours straight the night before submission with that stupid Silvia to shave that 0.081 my total time under hol's. That was after I spent most of the previous week with the stupid Elise. Anyway, he went out and casually beat his old Elise time by 0.2xx within 30 minutes.

That's what I really have respect for.
 
As your total time in GT4 creeps up, you will find your limit increases AND you get their much faster.

I can go back and probably do any of the 1st GT4 WRS and get my time within an hour compared to the 7 - 8 it took me back then.

There is definetly some skill involved though, but is also a lot of practise and seat time. Dan and Curtis play GT4 so much it would be quite a shame if they werent so good at it. Thats taking nothing away from there skills, im just saying if you played as much as them you would be closer to there speed and ability to pump out good laps quickly.

One major thing i have noticed is how much faster it takes me to pump out good laps, i can get close to my limit very fast, but then it takes hours on top of that to extract each .1.
 
Casio
The thing is. Just because he is hol/hot/zik/whoever, doesn't make them automatically faster. There is an absolute limit for a lap time in GT4 that we are all capable of. How I see it is that they have the ability to get as close to that lap in a very short amount of time.

I'm sure if my full-time job was to do nothing but one WRS combo, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. I could probaby get close to these guys, maybe even beat them, so could anyone else who did this many laps.

In my opinion, being able to put down these down laps so quickly is what I have more respect for then their actual times. Take last week for an example, I spent 3+ hours straight the night before submission with that stupid Silvia to shave that 0.081 my total time under hol's. That was after I spent most of the previous week with the stupid Elise. Anyway, he went out and casually beat his old Elise time by 0.2xx within 30 minutes.

That's what I really have respect for.
Click to expand...

that was what i would like to say... there´s a game limit to a certain combo... and its a race to see who can get there, or who can get there faster... i´m a very slow learner, and usually my times always came on monday night...

back in the days i played for GT2, top times came 3 or 4 years after the game was released...
GT4 is so huge, that everyweek i´m still learning. its been a year since i have the game. i still don´t have have all the lines and i still haven´t raced every car, or a car for an extended period of time...

its like the nurb track record, i´m sure 4 yers from now, the record will not be 4´44... we never know the absolute limit, and there´s always 0´001 to shave...

i´m pretty sure my first T3 of this combo will be like 1´20... it s along process of learning the car, the track, the lines, and if its GTmode, the setups. one thing is clear: more GT4 hours, easier to get closer to the limit. and experience with the car and speacially with the track helps a lot:tup:

in the end of the day, i know some aliens drive 5 laps and get a awesome time. cool. but if we look at real racing, lets think of a scenario: schummy drives 5 laps and gets 1´20´400 then jenson button drives 200 laps and gets 1´20´135. deep inside we still know schummy is a better overall driver, because of his record, but button had the best lap on that situation and it was better in that particular combo...

just my 0,02$
 
when i start a combo, (a normal tarmac combo), it usually takes me well over an hour to reach my limit, unless the combo is really easy, like on one of those basic tracks like midfeild with a car that handles reasonably linear. so reading hotbois statement about 6 laps or something absurd like that is fairly unrealistic, no one can reach there limit in 6 laps, not me anyway. in this week i took me a solid 2+ hours to work out all the corners and link them all into one lap, and evem in that lap i was on a knifes edge in terms of staying on track and hitting a wall, or doing a 360, i was never in control of the car, and even when i was at my peak, every 2nd and 3rd lap i would stuff up on the first or second corner. but indeed, the 2 hours i spent on this combo, u cant ask for a more challenging combo, in my opinion, it is the hardest combo to drive at the limit in the entire game
 
lol hardest combo?

WITH A DS2?! :crazy:

hahahahahahahaha, good one brO =P

im just kidding by the way, your the rally master

~ and seriously, that 6 lap combo i just did the other day was possible because the A4 Touring Car and Merc. Touring car are basically the same
~ Dan, @ Gtrp have you never tried the TWF Real time Racing?.... you get like 25 min on each combo.... and then after that 25 min its a different combo... pretty fun if you ask me ~ and its possible to reach a pretty good time within 20 min
 
This is my first real attempt at doing well in a rally. I really have no prior experience with clean rallying before this week. So relatively speaking I feel I am doing well... (If it wasn't for the WRS I wouldn't have tried rally at all, so thanks to Cyril for forcing a dirt track this week 👍 )

New Splits:
T1: 28.053
T2: 52.420
T3: 1'12.910
 
Jesus Christ, I'm ashamed to post my times as a Division 1 driver, I just saw the leaderboard and those times are just mindblowing!!

I guess I'm not that much into rallying :(
 
Some interesting discussion 👍
That's just what I was hoping to see, after posting my questions. And, as I expected, pretty much nobody (so far) here drives at their absolute limit.

The law of diminishing returns applies to "online" offline racing as well, apparently.

Hence the obvious conlcusion: no point putting 5 extra hours to shave that extra 0.2-0.3 that you know you might get, if you tried hard enough, when you can get your current time in a fifth of what it would take you to get to the limit.

Unless the race is really important, for whatever the reason.

I have to say I agree with these opinions. I also feel like - when I submit - I left a good 0.5 seconds or thereabout on the track. And I also know I would get it, but the time required to do it is just not worth it, most of the times. Or you just don't have enough time in the week to do it, anyway.

Thanks to all that expressed an opinion 👍

The Wizard.
 
SHigSpeed: Hi, my name is Scott and I'm a monkeyholic...

Group: Hi Scott!

Yes, I have PLENTY of bananas, and I spend a lot of time many weeks driving, and many if not most weeks I get my fastest time on Monday night. This last week was a good example with me dropping a second overall on Monday, however I really only had two proper sessions. One that was maybe two hours early in the week, and a three hour session Monday night. Of course there was more time spent this week purchasing, modding, tuning, and learning TWO cars and tracks. Another couple of hours each way and I KNOW that I had at least a shot at a full second overall in the race. I just ran out of time and the format didn't drive me to make time.

Generally I get three to four sessions, with each from about an hour to an hour and a half to three hours long. I tend to run after the kids have gone to sleep well into Saturday and Sunday mornings for the longer sessions.

I do agree with Steve though that extended sessions often end up in frustration and loss of focus though and the return is often little. Many times I get a good improvement in time about 20 minutes into the next session.

Most time I've spent on a week is probably 14 hours or so, but I've been averaging about 8 hours recently. I'm obviously getting better and better sooner as though I started in D2 in Week 1, I'm more or less consistently driving faster than the D2 winner and generally mid pack or better in D1 if I seriously commit to getting a good time. One win and two seconds in D1 so I can't complain, right?

Some day I'd love to be able to put in three hours in a sitting and be done, but it sure doesn't look like that's coming any time soon. Oh well, we do this for fun, right? So the more time you play, the more fun you have, so those who require more track time to do well are better off.

'Nuff said! :^)

Eeek!

-SHig
 
I ran my 5 first laps tonight, in a soft version of the car (-10% power and 0% weight).
Best (and only) clean lap :
T1 = 23.6
T2 = 53.7
T3 = 1'15.1

I'll now try the car at 0% power :scared:
 
Small_Fryz
One major thing i have noticed is how much faster it takes me to pump out good laps, i can get close to my limit very fast, but then it takes hours on top of that to extract each .1.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't have nearly as much GT4 experience as the best here, but I still reach my "limit" in about an hour or so -- maybe two hours, depending on the combo. Of course my "limit" is many seconds slower than the more experienced drivers...

Then I have to spend MANY more hours to shave off .1 here and .05 there. It gets frustrating -- I know my time is going to be crap anyway, and I don't have the time to spend 12-hours-a-day 7-days-a-week on it to improve it to the Div 1 levels. I'm here for the fun, and when it stops being fun, I know it's time to stop driving and just submit the darn thing, no matter what the time is...
 
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