GT5 Physics - Spec 2.0

[phil-t]

Whilst I can feel a lot of the differences in the physics, it's just still not floating my boat..

I've tried a range of high power cars, RWD/AWD and tried a few tracks,

My opinion on them..

+ FFB is slightly improved
+ Definitely more suspension reaction
+ Slightly improved tyre model (understeer feels more natural)

- Despite FFB improvements, still so numb in terms of feeling the tyres, when you push the car, the front end just feels so numb
- It's still got this really easy/predictable 4 wheel slide behaviour on turn in on the cars I've tried so far

The more I play iRacing and other games (backed to backed them tonight), the more I see differences in GT that just doesn't gel with me, their seems far more involvement in other games, perhaps GT6 will capture more of that, or perhaps it's not the direction Kaz/others want.

But that's just my opinion, I'll still get SPA DLC, that's too good to pass up, but I was expecting a leap in physics in terms of car behaviour and FFB, sadly it doesn't feel that way for me..

Props to people that are finding it night and day, we all like different things..

(PWTS + CSP's, FFB - 90, SHO - 90, SENS 270)

 

[newbielives]

Spec 2.0 Racing Stock LFA without any kind of aids ABS off, sport hard tires, against arcade advance AI set to 10 on Nurburgring time change. Also racing as clean as possible trying really hard not to bump into the AI
Seriously it's like taking a vacation when I'm playing GT5.

 

[Charlie56560]

I never used driving aids in GT 3 or 4 except for a bit of TCS for the super high horsepower cars. When I started GT5 I couldn't drive anything without Skid Recovery Force. It really pains me to say that. I could barely get a bronze on any of the time trials because SRF wasn't allowed. I just did 5 laps around Deep Forest Reverse in the latest 90's Japanese time trial and golded 4 of them.

After playing a little more it seems like I no longer have to drive like I'm driving on ice. I can still spin the car out if do something stupid but as long as I keep to good basics it seems a lot more forgiving without being over protective. No more SFR ! And I was thinking it was going to take a 12 step program to get me off it.

 

[DJSalajutsu]

No aids, never. I like the changes, it feels more intuitive, but one thing I noticed right away....My stock '03 Lancer handled FAR better than a stock Gallardo O.o on sports hards

 

[NEO_saffy_7]

Feel great if I'm honest

 

[ImprezaAddict]

I was driving a stock 458 Italia online on the Nurburgring and felt the car behaving completely different.

-The most noticeable change was that threshold braking kills all turning now. Which means it is an absolute necessity to brake in a straight line at all times.
-Throttle inputs made the car react quite differently coming into and out of corners.
-Car rolled around more.

And a general thing I found was that the TCS would act very strange on 1.

 

[diegorborges]

Spec 2.0 Racing Stock LFA without any kind of aids ABS off, sport hard tires, against arcade advance AI set to 10 on Nurburgring time change. Also racing as clean as possible trying really hard not to bump into the AI
Seriously it's like taking a vacation when I'm playing GT5.

Awesome video man... thanks for recording it.

It's funny to watch the AI taking slightly different lines one from another... specially the Ford GT.

 

[DA__dogg]

Imo the ffb feels a lot weaker but the cars do feel better I should say. Take the Ferrari Sarthe seasonal for example. That track was bumpy as all get out and now it's smooth. It was jarring at first the difference but now I see that it's better and while it will take some getting used to on my part, the change in no way affects my overall enjoyment of GT5

 

[Mac K]

I like the new physics, the difference isn't huge, but its a noticeable improvement for sure.

 

[kimi123]

Spec 2.0 Racing Stock LFA without any kind of aids ABS off, sport hard tires, against arcade advance AI set to 10 on Nurburgring time change. Also racing as clean as possible trying really hard not to bump into the AI
Seriously it's like taking a vacation when I'm playing GT5.

Very nice video

 

[panjandrum]

Well, unfortunately online and offline physics still differ... Sooo, what is there to say about that other than it's completely unacceptable. They are more similar than previously - but the key differences are still there, just more subtle. They are close enough now that a competent tuner might be able to figure out a relatively universal method for tuning out the differences. A separate sheet can then be used to save this configuration. So, this situation might, hopefully, be salvageable now. (If anyone does figure out a relatively universal way to tune a car to feel the same online and offline then please post it!)

There is also still no sense of understeer whatsoever in the steering wheel (Fanatec in my case), making impossible for a "drive by feel" guy like me to judge corner entry speed accurately. Maybe this just isn't possible with PD's physics engine, or maybe they are using the motors so much for other things that they just can't program in that "understeer lightening" in the wheels. Regardless on the reason, I hope it's something that PD can eventually fix.

 

[sebase74]

IMO the cars feel 'lighter' somehow. I caught myself thinking I should adjust the FFB settings of my wheel. I ran one of my standart seasonal races for comparison (Trial Mountain backwards / Lancer 4WD) and was 5sec slower than usual.

 

[Moontallico]

For me the cars with aero parts have more downforce. Example is when I went full speed with my RX-8 (with a rear wing only) in Flugplatz the front would lift a lot and the car would "fly" much more than it does now, causing me to go against the barrier. Now, also with the rear wing only and with the same settings, I can go full speed and the car doesn't go as high as it used to go and I can still brake and controll it after the jump.

 

[Dapper]

I haven't read all 10 pages... But are the online physics the same as offline?
I'll look up at least next time.

 

[Nastradamus87]

Suspension:
To echo what most other people have been saying, the suspension definitely works differently now. I know this because I have been racing nothing but an RM'd Integra at the Nurburgring for a few weeks now. The ride height is all the way down. Before spec 2.0, the car had A LOT of trouble handling the bumps, curbs, and elevations changes with these settings. I There were several parts of the track where I would get a bit of wheel spin every time. After 2.0, the car handles the bumps much better. The car no longer gets violently tossed by the curbs, and I do not get any wheel spin where I was before.

Handling Characteristics:
I don't know why, but I'm getting less initial understeer. The front end points into the corner much more cooperatively after 2.0.
Maybe it's my imagination, but the grip level when the tires get red seems different.

My lap times are lower. I easily pulled ahead of my best lap ghost from before spec 2.0 using same car, track, and settings.

******
Has there always been the option for tire where in practice mode?
******

 

[Bigbazz]

Wanted to come here and just say.

I played more GT5, bought a Nissan Silvia S13 (premium) and set the brake bias 3/2, setup the suspension along with the 6speed close gearbox, around 20bhp in engine upgrades with the rest stock, it felt absolutely amazing and I did notice a big change in the physics compared to the previous cars I had driven, even the brakes worked properly without ABS and I could feel the grip and the tyres like no other. It was one of the most engaging and real feeling driving experiences i've had in a game/sim.

But the other cars I had been driving still feel like ****, and the brakes still don't work. One of them for example was the Ferrari 512BB - Which was my favourite car when I first bought the game, though I've always had to drive it with ABS and that is no different now, it is a tank slapping piece of poo that locks up when I even look at the brakes without ABS.

The FGT is still stupid as ****, the F1 car still drives unrealistic and the Racing tyres still have too much grip and are too easy to drive on, ABS is still much faster than non ABS and most of the cars I like to drive still lockup and act stupid under braking without it.

But that Nissan, I hope I can find more cars that feel like that, it was the best driving experience i've had in GT5 and i've been playing it since release day.

 

[Nvedamuthu]

I immediately noticed the steering felt more realistic when I used my G27. I just wish the clutch as more realistic.

 

[Jay]

Spec 2.0 Racing Stock LFA without any kind of aids ABS off, sport hard tires, against arcade advance AI set to 10 on Nurburgring time change. Also racing as clean as possible trying really hard not to bump into the AI
Seriously it's like taking a vacation when I'm playing GT5.

What a beautiful video, very nice 👍

 

[godlameroso]

So are you claiming that no other sim than GT5 models detailed tire temperatures and pressure?

I said NO SIM does tires well, yet. GT5 included. The point was that a simulation isn't even meant to be realistic, it's supposed to be an imitation, something to give you a feeling associated with the real thing. There are no racing emulations, because there are too many variables to consider in order to emulate a car in a virtual setting. Even with a hydraulic platform, F1 quality simulator, etc etc. It's still more a training tool than a replacement for the real thing. In fact a lot of F1 simulation is done with driver out of the loop. Simulations are used to practice setups, learn layouts, and procedures, but no F1 driver uses them to improve his skills.

 

[Tyger]

Spec 2.0 Racing Stock LFA without any kind of aids ABS off, sport hard tires, against arcade advance AI set to 10 on Nurburgring time change. Also racing as clean as possible trying really hard not to bump into the AI
Seriously it's like taking a vacation when I'm playing GT5.

That is indeed an awesome video, and a good showcase for GT5/Spec 2.0

The behaviour of the suspension definitely looks a lot deeper there, is it a Saleen that kinda bucks on the Flugplatz? And several of the cars lift/extend more noticably when they go over a crest.

Your driving puts me to shame there, it takes 95% of my concentration to just drive a good clean lap on the ring, and I struggle enough with overtaking even with the frequent speed advantage you have in the seasonals. I guess getting a wheel would be a good start...

 

[Dr.Boss.]

I guess getting a wheel would be a good start...

My current G27 is the first driving wheel i've owned... i bought it for GT5, and i tell you, i will never play another racing game without a wheel. GT5 does a very good job conveying the weight of vehicles, tire grip, and suspension loading through the force feedback.

Back to the physics discussion
I spent a few hours tonight playing Spec II, and i must say the physics upgrade is noticeable. Cars seem to more realistically loose traction when they go over a rise... as though the engine's simulation of gravity has been overhauled.

I first noticed this while driving my 190E around the nordschleife... i went over a crest, and before i saw what was about to happen, i felt the wheel loosen (more than normal) and thought "oh S___!"... it caught me totally of guard, by the time the Merc settled back into it's normal stance, the damage was done, the back end had already broken free... i caught the slide and drifted for a good 100 ft............ too bad i couldn't hold onto it: i ended up in the wall.

Crash aside, the whole experience felt right. The car felt like that was exactly what it should have done... i caught air, kept it floored, and when the rear tires finally caught traction again, the torque i had running through the wheels slid the back end out... the icing on the cake was the fact that i could feel what was happening in the wheel.

Amazing.

 

[CoolColJ]

I'm finding it more predictable to drift with the control pad, compared to before, should feel much better with a wheel instead of the fishtailing we used to have

 

[NEPALII]

Overall I just feel like I can point the car in the right direction better now. One problem I had with the old physics is that with small corrections being twitchy, I would tend to turn into a corner too fast messing up my line. This is no longer a problem. It's awesome!

^This. I feel the car more responsive, I can counter oversteer better. Amazing work by PD!

 

[tourist]

Yep, i love the overhauled physics too.
Was on the Nürburg GP/F with the M3 and it feels just even more right then it did before
There are no big changes in my opinion but the whole experience got better.

 

[GTP_Gearhead]

The suspension is definitely better at absorbing bumps. I'm not sure how to explain it properly, but now when you hit bumps and kerbs, the car doesn't feel quite so much like one rigid object that bounces around.

For instance it feels like proper independent suspension, compared to the pre 2.0 straight axle physics.

 

[sunnygsm]

Drafting is tons better, it's not super powered like it used to be, good improvement there.

 

[TCSdisable]

After 2.0.

I learnt the tires much gripper and the limit much wider.

Before 2.0, X2010 Only Downforce are working. After the patch,I feel the X2010 is more control-able and the tires not a sub-character again.

 

[banana123]

Dude. Change brake bias to 4, 3 or something like that.

10, 0 means only the front brakes are active. Of course you will spin. The front of the car has brakes applied, whereas the back of your car is not being slowed at all. If that was your setup prior, I can only conclude 2.0 has improved physics, because if you only had front brakes in real life, things would not go well.

Understeer is more noticeable, I've found. But I would adjust your brakes first, before you attempt any other tuning.

Thanks for the reply I had it on 7/3 front/rear before which how it was before the physics update but I span more with that setup. I'll give 4/3 a go

 

[BWX]

Love it!

I spent many hours online yesterday in a good CLEAN shuffle race server... (destinkeys). We were on COMFORT Soft tires a lot of the time and it felt great! I was driving MR cars and RR cars online with CS tires and was in control, not sliding around like on ice, and without driver aids except ABS 1.

I use a G25 with custom modded gas pedal and Nixim mod brake pedal, I run FF with power steering off and on FF level 7 most of the time. The FF and physics are great. To me there is a huge difference between physics and FF of Spec I and II, all for the better.

I think maybe PD got a hold of some actual real tire data or something that they didn't have before. Especially on-line the physics are so much better in every way. Before I didn't even want to drive online because the physics felt so strange and vague, and it seemed like driving on a thin layer of grease. Now everything is the way it should be. You can really tell in the slow speed corners and when making those small corrections in an opposite lock situation. It feels like your wheel is connected to wheels and tires tires under the car. All the cars have vastly different handling characteristics as they should as well. Great work PD and Kaz.


edit
People with non ABS braking issues, try 3/0 brake balance and call me in the morning. 0 isn't "off", it's just 1 level less than 1. Works great with my Nixim mod. Try 3/1 if more oversteer is needed, try 2/0 for really low grip tires. All this does is allow you to put your foot in it much more before lockup. It's more adjusting the brake pedal than the car. I use the front number to determin where the brake pedal starts to bite, and the rear number just to control the amount of oversteer you get while braking and turning simultaneously.

For high downforce cars with RS tires, go up to 4/1 or so. For FGT, up to 10/4 to 10/5 or higher. Experiment a little.. There is a setting that works for every car.

 

[PantalonUK]

I know somebody mentioned this earlier in this thread and Im at work and shouldnt spend too much time reading through this. The FGT is the biggest change I've noticed.

Physics in general are subtly improved as has been said. A much more gradual loss of grip rather then a snap and your dead without a lot of notice. As others have said there is much more connection from tires, suspension to the wheel FFB.

Now the Formula GT, I was running a set up that was posted on GTP a good while back in the hope of improving the car earlier this week and I was still disappointed. There was still very little feedback of being on the edge. NOW after 2.0 its a different car! Really feels much more like the F1 cars in GT and other Sims.