GT5 Physics - Spec 2.0

  • Thread starter CodeRedR51
  • 479 comments
  • 64,905 views

Do you like the new Physics?

  • Love it!

    Votes: 452 69.6%
  • Were better before 2.0

    Votes: 35 5.4%
  • Feels the same to me?

    Votes: 162 25.0%

  • Total voters
    649
Jarmo
You are right. In real life when I drive hard into a corner with a Peugeot 206 the wheels will start to bounce with the tires fighting for grip. In gt5 it just results in a clean slide.

I was driving a beefed up Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX around the Seasonal Japanese 80s Cape Ring and on my last lap, 3 corners from the end when, as I was going over the small hill after the spiral I heard my tyre skip. I finished the race, saved, and watched the replay. There was a distinct sound of the tyre skipping.

How do you turn on the Tyre Load Indicator in replay?
 
I play with DS3 and the feeling is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NOW! o.O

I wonder how much its affected for wheel users...

It's a lot more natural now, you have much more feedback from the car... the body roll, suspension travel and how the suspension work in general... tire grip... a LOT have changed...

Last night I tried the TVR Speed Twelve and it was AMAZING... it behave exactly how you can see on videos around... its a riot, a beast... its hard to control, it wants to kill you... the wheelspin is not constant, its varies according with the tire temp or something like that.

It's hard to explain, but the physics are fantastic... much more real, much more natural... that's the word: natural, even using a DS3, the inputs I have to make are similar to what I do in a real car, like said before, its easier to correct a mistake, again... naturally... and please don't come with the thing that you can't feel it right without a wheel... I agree that the feeling is smaller, but its there...

But I have to agree with Shirakawa Akira posts that we should be able to rollover the car easily.

*** maybe I overdid my post... I'm thrilled, sorry... I've had a blast on GT5 last night together with friends. You guys know how it is.

👍 I completely agree with your analysis. Even with the ds3 you somehow 'feel' all four tires fighting for grip. You don't just slid through corners anymore. I initiated a four wheel drift in Evo and actually flipped it. 2.0 is awesome
 
I was driving a beefed up Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX around the Seasonal Japanese 80s Cape Ring and on my last lap, 3 corners from the end when, as I was going over the small hill after the spiral I heard my tyre skip. I finished the race, saved, and watched the replay. There was a distinct sound of the tyre skipping

Today I heard too the "tire skipping" sound you mention (I was driving with a wheel at the Nuerburgring), however it doesn't translate in a reaction from the entire chassis as it would in real life.

In general, to me it seems that tires in GT5 are indeformable and never reach (by feel) an angle/load over which lateral grip suddenly increases due to changes in normal forces.

While keeping in mind this is an extreme example, pay close attention to what happens to the outside rear tire (typically) each time in this video. This is one of the things I'm talking about:

 
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I use a DS3 controller:yuck: so it's difficult for me to tell the difference, BUT...

I have been re-attempting some difficult special events like the AMG driving Academy, and I was able to cut MANY seconds off my times from before.

I had already beat the Wet versions of the AMG Driving Academy in spec 1, but I couldn't beat the Dry ones... until now. :sly:

My advice: If you couldn't beat some of the Special Events before, TRY AGAIN NOW! 👍
 
I don't know if I'm seing things or feeling or whatever, but after updating the game today I was able to gold the Eiger Challenge with the 8C...the car felt less loose...more stable...damn I don't know but I WON THE DAMN CHALLENGE :dopey: Finally the special events are all gold, Platinum here I go :D
 
Sorry, but what Skid Recovery Force has to do with "Grip reduction on track edges" set to low or real?

Or even, what does it has to do with a car equipped with special tires? And by that I mean a WRC with dirt tires in a track as Toscana....

I don´t get it.
What are you trying to prove?
Would reading the posts before it be to much to ask?
I don't know why for certain, but it seems to be a 30-40 second difference between the Sebastian Loeb challenge and lapping solo. I think it's actually active snow on the track, as that's the only option really left, I believe.

I don't know if I'm seing things or feeling or whatever, but after updating the game today I was able to gold the Eiger Challenge with the 8C...the car felt less loose...more stable...damn I don't know but I WON THE DAMN CHALLENGE :dopey: Finally the special events are all gold, Platinum here I go :D
The worst possible way to test, is trying something you haven't done in a while, no offense. I easily improved all my times in the grand tour and rally events I re-did right before Spec II's release, because since the last time I tried them, I improved.


I play with a controller (my wheel's in another country) and the difference in physics are plainly obvious.

People that don't feel it probably never played the game much in the first place. There is definitely a difference in the way the skids are handled especially.

.....now whether its more "SIM" or not. I'll let the pro's argue it out, but i like it. :P
You shouldn't make assumptions like that, as I can tell you firsthand it's 100% untrue.
I feel a steering difference, and it's easier to catch slides, but that's it, and I've played more then my share of the game the past 4-5 months.
 
The worst possible way to test, is trying something you haven't done in a while, no offense. I easily improved all my times in the grand tour and rally events I re-did right before Spec II's release, because since the last time I tried them, I improved.
FYI I spent 1:30 hours yesterday trying as well as along the week...isn't that enough to you?:indiff:
 
FYI I spent 1:30 hours yesterday trying as well as along the week...isn't that enough to you?:indiff:
You would have had to try it shortly before and after the update.
Your post implies you've only tried it long before the update, and now after the update.

I'm just saying if it's been a while, the variables are increased exponentially, most notably yourself improving.

It's human nature to believe what you see in your tests, we're all the same way, I'm just telling you maybe you should try something you ran more recently, that's all.
As I said, I did them months ago myself, and out of random luck did the entire grand tour, and loeb challenge within the last 2 days before the update, and of course, they were easier, and I ran better times.
To make it more detailed, week 7 of the wrs was the Alfa 8C at Eiger you mention, and while I ran about 2 hours back then, in 15 minutes this time (before the update) I ran within 1 tenth of my previous time, let alone the .5-1.0 I now see left.
 
TheFlyingKiwi
Have any of you driven the McLaren MP4-12C, it's absolutely fantastic now. Drives like a 458 on sports soft tires.

Most things drive pretty dang well on sports soft tires. If its a street car you need comfort med comfort softs or sport hards (depending on what its real life tires are) to get a measure of its true handling.
 
What about online? Did the physics change for online too? Can you flip over cars online like you can offline yet? Sorry for the questions but my ps3 is'nt working right now so yeah.
 
I'm still downloading the patch, everything i've read in this thread would point towards it being less realstic. Cars in the game already rode the curbs too well, sports tyres already allowed you to out perform real life versions of the car.

Lets see how it is when I try it.

Don't forget that in a game you don't get the sense of fear you would get in real life driving a car to its limits.

The physics feel similar, but the force feedback is way better.
 
Goshin2568
Most things drive pretty dang well on sports soft tires. If its a street car you need comfort med comfort softs or sport hards (depending on what its real life tires are) to get a measure of its true handling.

I meant both of them on Sports Softs. On Sports hard the Macca is a drift monkey.
 
Have any of you driven the McLaren MP4-12C, it's absolutely fantastic now. Drives like a 458 on sports soft tires.

That's good to hear. People were saying something was wrong with the MP4-12C. Can't remember what.
Drift monkey it is. Besides, "supercars" like the MP4 and 458 have wayyyy better tires than comfort or sports hard tires. They wouldn't be the best to drive on streets if they didn't have tires with amazing (enough) grip.

What about online? Did the physics change for online too? Can you flip over cars online like you can offline yet? Sorry for the questions but my ps3 is'nt working right now so yeah.
Rollovers are more difficult to "accomplish" compared to before. Online physics had to have changed as well.


Don't forget that in a game you don't get the sense of fear you would get in real life driving a car to its limits.

The physics feel similar, but the force feedback is way better.
Do you use a wheel? I would think you do. I've tried with a wheel and without. The feeling of the car with a DS3 doesn't feel as natural as it is with a wheel. The physics improvement is much less noticeable with a DS3. GT5 is meant for using with a steering wheel. The essence of the game shows that.
 
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You would have had to try it shortly before and after the update.
Your post implies you've only tried it long before the update, and now after the update.

I'm just saying if it's been a while, the variables are increased exponentially, most notably yourself improving.
Someone already did this themselves. Right before and after Spec 2. Might have been the OP.

Exactly. I noticed this after taking the new GT-R around the ring. Doesn't jump around nearly as much. I'll have to test this some more tomorrow by taking a car I know jumps around out to the Ring to see if it's much better.

I had a good indication of what changed tonight when I took my FMSC Miata out to Laguna Seca for some laps. I ran some laps with this combo last night, so it was still fresh in my memory. After doing a few laps tonight, I can definitely feel the difference.
Overall I just feel like I can point the car in the right direction better now. One problem I had with the old physics is that with small corrections being twitchy, I would tend to turn into a corner too fast messing up my line. This is no longer a problem. It's awesome!
extremely noticeable. Not as twitchy anymore. Naturaler it is.
 
Someone already did this themselves. Right before and after Spec 2. Might have been the OP.
Also note that lap times are probably not the best way to judge changed physics. If a physics update is done properly, laptimes should remain roughly the same (as several members have already pointed out). It would be completely unrealistic if all of a sudden you would be a few seconds faster or slower on a certain track/car combo. Changed physics are best noted by observing what happens under sudden shifts of weight or unexpected things, that's where the changes really show. Also, it's more obvious on some cars than others.

When running at Nordschleife or Trial Mountain (or any track that is not flat as a pancake) the changes (to me) are extremely obvious.
 
Also note that lap times are probably not the best way to judge changed physics. If a physics update is done properly, laptimes should remain roughly the same (as several members have already pointed out). It would be completely unrealistic if all of a sudden you would be a few seconds faster or slower on a certain track/car combo. Changed physics are best noted by observing what happens under sudden shifts of weight or unexpected things, that's where the changes really show. Also, it's more obvious on some cars than others.

When running at Nordschleife or Trial Mountain (or any track that is not flat as a pancake) the changes (to me) are extremely obvious.
I mostly agree. (edit - after re-reading, mostly should mean 99.5% agree)

Lap times should change because of worse/better physics. I don't understand why they wouldn't. Roughly the same yes, but they'll still change for better or for worse, obviously, depending on the track as you mentioned about the changes.
 
What tires do you guys run with stock cars, for example with me the Nissan GT-R34 VSpec II Nur I run with CS as stock tires. Feels great.
 
I just did the FGT seasonals... My review about GTs new physics:

- IMO they did a great job with the new tire model. Before doing this seasonal, I only did some hot lapping with street cars. It felt like that all those cars are a bit more understeering then before. I wondered why. Before spec II, I was pretty decent with the FGT. I could drive this car for hours without spinning/crashing, I was also able to keep the tires alive for many laps. Now I started the seasonals and the first thing happening to me was understeering and crashing into the walls at T2 in HSR...
The tires were too could! Its crucial now to get them to optimum temperature. The difference between cold and hot tires is now night and day.
Later I started the 24h LeMans (mainly to test ingame saving)... It was raining from the beginning. Damn, I never had to fight this much with the car (Audi R10 stock) in this game. It just doesn`t wanted to turn. Even after 4 laps my front tires were still cold and delivered no grip! I turn the steering wheel left, but the car goes straight.

Thats awesome, I have yet to see a sim with a tire model like this.
 
I can say that in my experience this still isn't simulated in GT5:

gu1ft.png


In real life, under high transverse loads and body roll angles, tires (especially with high-profile and narrow ones) don't just slide but begin to hop due to the fact that we're use their sidewalls, and start acting as a wedge (progressively more as load and body roll increase, or more in general as camber becomes positive relatively to the road) which can lead to a temporary lift of tires on the opposite side of the car, or worse a roll over.




Today I heard too the "tire skipping" sound you mention (I was driving with a wheel at the Nuerburgring), however it doesn't translate in a reaction from the entire chassis as it would in real life.

In general, to me it seems that tires in GT5 are indeformable and never reach (by feel) an angle/load over which lateral grip suddenly increases due to changes in normal forces.

While keeping in mind this is an extreme example, pay close attention to what happens to the outside rear tire (typically) each time in this video. This is one of the things I'm talking about:



No sim is perfect, not even so-called "real" sims on a PC. Maybe in 20 years we'll have something that accurate, but it doesn't exist today. Even if that's the case, you can't make a blanket statement that its "not a sim" (not that you did). I've seen sims on the PC exhibit a lot worse characteristics- I've played them all extensively except iPaying, which I have raced a bit.

Beyond all that, before 2.0 I didn't even race online because of how bad it felt to me compared to offline.. that constant thin layer of grease feeling, and that was even on RS tires on dry tarmac. Since 2.0 I haven't even been on RS tires online yet and I probably have close to 20hrs+ driving time so far.

Yesterday I was in a room for quite a few hours where we were using SH tires with no tuning at around 520 to 560PP. On the Ring I was using cars like the SLS, 599, F430, 459, LFA, etc. using tire wear/fuel consumption. Let me say this, it's not EASY at all to drive these cars around on those tires.

It's not like 2.0 released and now GT5 is arcade easy. That's BS. It just feels better, and the car reacts the way you expect it to most of the time. Certainly compared to PC sims the driving simulation part of GT5 is on the same level at the very least. They aren't perfect either, very far from it in some cases.

That "knife edge'' someone was talking about erlier is exactly what I felt yesterday Driving GT5. The day before that I was chucking around a WRX on SS tires offline in A-Spec.. noticing how natural that felt, especially compared to my own Impreza. There are so many different combinations of cars and tires in GT5 it's almost mind boggling. You need to drive a lot of different types of cars with different types of tires off-line and on-line to start to get a feel for these new physics.

I was even using no ABS on-line with SH tires on supercars and getting better times than I was WITH ABS, and beating people that were using ABS. That wouldn't have happened before 2.0 for me. I could feel the brakes grabbing and letting go a lot better. I used to run FF level 9 or 10 on my G25, 2 days ago I went dow to 7, then 6, and yesterday down to 5. I still get all the info coming through the wheel at 5 that I used to at 9 or 10. SpecII is a completely different animal. Whew.. BTW I'm 39 yrs old, have probably driven over a million miles, owned at least 20 cars and have driven hundreds. Not that it matters or anyone gives a flying ****. LOL
 
Feels more like how I remember the physics in the Indianapolis GT Academy time trial now. Maybe I'm wrong on that, it was a while ago. I like how the cars react to the small bumps on the tracks like coming off the bridge on eiger.
 
What tires do you guys run with stock cars, for example with me the Nissan GT-R34 VSpec II Nur I run with CS as stock tires. Feels great.

I use the default tires that the cars come with. So I either use comfort soft, sports hard or racing hard. Plus, all my cars are stock which in my opinion is the best way to play and the correct way to judge the new physics. I noticed the new physics immediately and I use the DUALSHOCK 3 controller.
 
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BWX
No sim is perfect, not even so-called "real" sims on a PC.
Quite true. Every sim I've tried has some clear faults.

BWX
Certainly compared to PC sims the driving simulation part of GT5 is on the same level at the very least.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I disagree. In some ways it's close. And under most conditions, it holds up pretty well. Certainly the best I've seen on a console. But when you start pushing and digging, for example: when the wheels leave the road, riding curbs and how the tire contact patch results in lost of friction and how the balance of the car affects grip as the balance sways from side to side, how the tire contact patch interacts with the road at different angles and even how the car carries speed as the tires loose their battle with friction, or how aerodynamic downforce has an improper relationship with drag, it was and still is a bit behind. And all of these can be demonstrated, if not always accurately measured.

GT5 is still a game. A game that had to appeal to a broad audience. The "average" player is sitting on their couch with a controller and will likely never bother to push the game to it's limits or turn off any assists. And considering the restraints they were under, they really did a stellar job of making it pretty realistic. It has much of the potential of a good PC sim under most conditions, with superior visuals, all wrapped up in ease of use goodness of a console game. For me too, it continues to hold great appeal. But if you're looking for the highest degree of realism available on a consumer level, look elsewhere.

BWX
I was even using no ABS on-line with SH tires on supercars and getting better times than I was WITH ABS...
And you think that's correct? It isn't. In the real world, with racing slicks and a "real" brake pedal where you can really feel impending lockup, maybe. But perhaps you were just improving your times, lap over lap and assumed it was due to braking?
 
You would have had to try it shortly before and after the update.
Your post implies you've only tried it long before the update, and now after the update.

I'm just saying if it's been a while, the variables are increased exponentially, most notably yourself improving.

It's human nature to believe what you see in your tests, we're all the same way, I'm just telling you maybe you should try something you ran more recently, that's all.
As I said, I did them months ago myself, and out of random luck did the entire grand tour, and loeb challenge within the last 2 days before the update, and of course, they were easier, and I ran better times.
To make it more detailed, week 7 of the wrs was the Alfa 8C at Eiger you mention, and while I ran about 2 hours back then, in 15 minutes this time (before the update) I ran within 1 tenth of my previous time, let alone the .5-1.0 I now see left.
But mate, as I said, I tried it along the week, on Thursday I spent 1:30 hours and on Friday the first thing I did after updating was the challenge and I beat it easily in 1/4 hour with much more consistent times 👍
Well, I agree that may not be the best way to test, but I am very happy for my acomplishment and I thank Spec II for that. I understand exacly what you said, but it's not true and you can't imply such a think based on my post that didn't crarify for how long I tried. :)
 
Ginetta G4 spec 2.0: how has been reported by many people, slides are easier to catch. That very light car was a beast. If you loosed it, it was gone. Now, I can drive consistently in high speed ring with a very smooth control.

I'm curious to have a try with Enzo and Elise, other 2 not that easy cars.

About the poll: I'm not sure if it's best now or before the update. Now is easier and feels more natural. Not sure about realism
 
I seem to remember you jumped ship from Ferrari Challenge because you weren't happy about the field of view, but whatever. :D
Well, that's when I quit discussing things on the boards. But from what I remember of the game, the towel thrower for me was fighting to keep out of the way of the bots in the Virginia course in the rain in one of the later races. That rain animation was pretty lame, by the way, just a video overlay of a static rain capture looped. It did let you know it was raining though.

But true, I couldn't get comfy with any of the camera views in FC. They were all atrocious, and the best I could do was use chase cam. But close was too low, so the car blocked your view of the track. Far was too far and still too low.

I never played Forza II but you're the only one I know who's ever made, and continues to draw analogies between Forza II and FC.
Probably because I'm the rare individual who played both, and wasn't a huge fan of either. ;)

But one important distinction I want to make. Ferrari Challenge was a very polarizing game. You either loved it or hated it and few took the middle ground. I was very enamored by FC's amazing and rich FFB. And I think that's the main feature that drew many GTPers to Ferrari Challenge, and it's successor, Supercar Challenge. The incredibly detailed, and arguably over boosted FFB gave you the ability to feel the front wheels fighting for grip in the way no other racing game I ever played, before or since, has been able to do. Especially driving the older cars in the game, there was such an intense feeling of fighting for balance through transitional moves as the weight transferred from side to side or front to back under braking. In that sense, Eutechnyx created a masterpiece. By giving that extra feedback, Ferrari Challenge allowed you to drive by the seat of your pants, something that's missing from nearly every other game. And that's the point I was making in my earlier post about the lack of outside stimuli. But I don't think I ever claimed that FC had a superior physics engine compared to GT5 Prologue. However, one could make the case that it had an arguably better physics engine than any other racing game on the PS3 at the time, and as such, among other reasons, it filled a vaccum.
I'm not sure now what I said you said... uhm, yeah. :D Peeking back, it doesn't look like I remarked on that point in regards your views.

And looking back at what I said about FC, it didn't feel exactly like Forza 2. Your points are right, and I'd add that the cars in FC had a tangible sense of weight to them, perhaps emphasized by the camera lurching forward when you brake. Since I was racing it with the DFGT, I did feel the tires quite well. In fact, better than the PC sims I had raced with the possible exception of LFS. But there was also this flavor of Forza in the game. Fishing through curves felt similar in both games, which is where you feel much of anything in a racing game.

One of my biggest issues with Prologue was how bland and stale the steering was. If you can honestly tell me, you can't tell the difference between the rich, lively, communicative FFB from GTR Evo and the stale, cold, lifeless FFB from Prologue, we're really speaking from opposite ends of the axis. To be fair, the cars in GTR were racing cars with very direct steering. Prologue was full of road cars with a lot of isolation. But it was more than that.
I'm not sure I'd call GTR Evo's feel rich and involving. Sure, it's a serious racing sim so it had better have something to commend it over a console racer. And to be sure, I have no experience with real race cars or supercars, mostly my Supra on Dunlops... I forget the rating, and a relative's Sentra Spec V, firm suspension on on Continentals. But when I decided on a few occasions to cut loose, both Prologue, and surprisingly GT4, were remarkably similar to my real life experience, even to the vague unnerving feeling when the car was on the verge of losing traction, as my Dunlops don't have a distinct break point. The sound of tire squeal was almost exactly the same. I use a DFGT, which is almost exactly the same in feel as my G25, so I reserve it for PC racing.

I can understand your gripes over PD's tire modeling, as this is the hardest nut for any game to crack. Just look at the ordeal the LFS guys have gone through. Look at GTR, which had a fix to the stock tire model done by a few people in the community who thought it was wrong, and most ended up agreeing. And I've never experienced a car on racing tires, obviously, so I can't comment on that. People like Scaff have made remarks about GT's tire physics, a guy who was actually in the biz for years, perhaps still is, and does point out a number of things PD gets right. But this is why debates like these in bars makes the beer tender happy, they never end. ;)

iRacing was the last PC sim I tried. Because, like you, I don't much care for the pay to play method. And if you really go and buy ALL the content, it can become quite pricey. That said, if you'll pardon the pun, iRacing for me was a game changer. ...I found it to be superior in every way imaginable--from the community to the philosophy behind it, iRacing was a world apart from other PC sims. Is it perfect? No, far from it. And you can find flaws and faults with any game out there. But if you want pure wheel to wheel racing action, with other clean racers, in the most realistic, true to life way possible, it's the way to go.
Someday, I might change my mind, but I'm doubtful. I didn't buy a LFS license because the pure joy of the most realistic physics experience is just not my bag. And it's precisely because... let's go back to your remarks. It's a Quixotian quest, nothing is absolutely realistic, but real life, real world racing. Every game and our personal attachments to them is completely an individual matter. It's based VERY strongly on vague visceral/emotional impressions which just aren't discreet, quantitative or scientific. For a number of people, louder, more aggressive engine notes improve the physics and feel to them. And this probably explains my attachment to Gran Turismo, a game accused of sampling vacuum cleaners rather than cars. :lol: Because it doesn't matter that much to me if the engines are so loud, they give me a headache after a while, like the first GTR did.

iRacing - actually I like that play on it, iPaying - may offer something outstanding. But I bet that mostly it's a matter of feeling like you're in a real NASCAR or SCCA race with other blokes who have been in the racing world for years, and you get a thrill of moving up one position on a leaderboard as you improve.

That's fine, but that's not my thing. Gran Turismo spoiled me. It not only gave me the ability to race in more types of racing outside of Toca, it also gave me the virtual ability to own hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cars. And in GT5, it's really very close to reality, at least in regard the more mortal level of cars in the range of Corvettes and below. Above that barometric is entirely up to debate and the downing of lots of beverage. But let me tell you, my modded BMW 330i is amazingly similar in feel to my GTR Evo Beemer which I feel no love for whatsoever, because it's not my car, it's someone else's. And because GTR graphics are as PS2 as it gets. It's very dry and clinical, like comparing the taste of cough syrup to Guinness.

Anyhow, this is making me miss GT5, gotta get in some racing before I waste a lot of time pouring over stuff in Forza 3! :lol:
 
The problem with GT5 physics is that the faster the car, and the grippier the tyre the less realistic it becomes. Generally the comfort and sports tyres are great and most of the road cars are great, but when you start getting into the racing car range everything just goes wrong.

By time you get to the Ferrari F10 it's just point and squirt with over exaggerated aerodynamics. But if you run around in some 100-300 bhp car on comfort softs or sports hards, it feels amazing and acts quite as expected.
 
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