GT6 Duel of the Week 2 - The Last Lap

GT3 vs What???

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
This is a quick post before I get dragged back to the wind tunnel (Bloody Sprouts - stupid Belgians)

The Lotus Renault 97T wins

Both are fast and have their issues. The FGT has that history - you had to earn that car back in GT4. I used a Gillet Vertigo in a 24 hour blitz at Nurburgring which was far more enjoyable than the prize was. None of this just buying it off the peg like a mook.

The FGT has a range of purty colours, but the livery is very 2nd place with its nascar stickered logos spoiling the flow even more so what you stack it up to the flying fag packet - That JPS black and Gold - AND the other sponsors match the livery with Gold letters - Pure class.

The down side of the FGT is it is a pup to drive. Very stiff and awkward feel to it. BUT it is meant to be driven with all those "I Can drive real good" switches turned up. The Engine note is pretty awful. And considering how much Aero it should have the set up numbers just don't back it up... The Lotus has a Flat undertray, the FGT has two venturi tunnels - the FGT should have a huge advantage in groundeffect downforce levels... Maybe Polyphony Digital just over egged the Lotus?

The Lotus has a few oddball things, the peaky engine, that antique Hewland Gearbox with 5 gears. The Aero is way too high, but with a nice set up and minimal Aero the car feels great to drive. And sounds the business.

I really don't like Ayrton Senna as a driver which takes a lot of polish from the car, I rewatched the European GP at Brands Hatch, But in the race Senna took out Rosberg and Piquet with his lack of racing respect. Keke would later return the favour by driving a car in a safe defensive manner of a World Champion, enabling Nigel Mansell (Former driver of Car number 12 for Lotus) to slip ahead of Senna to take his first win.

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So Ryk would pick the Gerard Ducarouge Lotus 97T first.

Happy Halloween you goofballs!
 
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Two great ambassadors of their time here to compete each other on an ultra fast and historic circuit. Thanks for the chance!

On the one corner the 70's turbo F1 with over a 1000 HP, the Lotus 97T.

On the other cornet the early 2000 Mugen-Honda deriver FGT with over 900 HP from its monstrous and sky-high revving V10.

Raw power vs technology here. Who is going to win this?

Since I didn't find the time to put my wheel and pedal setup to hotlap those 2 monsters, my opinion will be based on the short time sessions I put using my 6-axis gamepad a few mins earlier. Without fiddling muchly with their setup due to the short time (basic changes only), I wil just say that I found the more recent FGT easier to reach its limit, and the Lotus 97T raw as it should but very difficult to exploit its potential. And this is how it should be afterall imho.

Winner on my Monza TT is the FGT by almost 3 seconds in my free run timetrial on 80's Monza and since their purpose was just to lap fast, FGT wins in this duel. Respect to Lotus and to PD for paying tribute to this era of motor racing with this beast of a car.
 
This week I found out ( well, more like reinforced the notion ) that I'm not all that great in fast cars on racing tires. There's something about the "feel" on RH that I can't get used to, plus I now realize my 62 year old reflexes aren't that great. I was struggling until @Baron Blitz Red suggested I "use the force, the downforce". With a bit of practice, and a lot of concentration, I made an acceptable time in the FGT, and got to see how much fun this car is. I picked up over 2 seconds, and could see that 1:16's were possible.

I love the Lotus though. I don't know if I found it more difficult to drive, or just different. Only 5 gears and a huge turbo makes it a touchy beast, but that exhaust note, and the heritage of the car, make it a winner for me. It's a bit ( well, a lot ) on the twitchy side for me. I should have turned down the aero to see how that works. I didn't register a time....I was in the middle of practice, then Christmas doings with the urchins ( my kids ) and got Dirt 2 from my son. Then POOF the event was over. I didn't even get to try the Weider tune recommended by @Vic Reign93

My vote Lotus 97T
 
Well you'll see the results of the tune when the times are posted. :sly:

Despite the RH tyres, it was still grippy as hell in the turns and stable despite me getting more and more aggressive with the driving style.

On a track with long straights like Spa, a decent pilot could get the FGT around it slightly quicker than the Lotus, but the 97T of the two is more consistent in its behaviour and easier to adapt to.

Now if you were racing at SSR7 or X or Indy Speedway, the FGT will be the better choice due to its faster straight line speed.

But of the two, my vote goes to the Lotus 97T. 👍
 
Baron Blitz Red
Pity that both @Vic Reign93 and @Draggon never got a chance to post times with both cars on the TT itself. I would've been curious to see if either driver could have gotten both cars to basically identical times like I did.

As I stated before, I was stunned at the result.

Cheers
Click to expand...
My settings were on the low side of the aero settings for both of those and they reached top speeds of 389km/H (FGT) and 370km/H (97T). What about yours?
 
Alright, this was a very interesting duel this week. Two formula cars in the game that I've never seen go head to head before. Some of your lap times seemed pretty close, so it looks like I made the right choice this week. The default setup for the Formula GT is very hard to drive, the brakes like to lock up and it oversteers surprisingly when you turn in hard on tight corners. The Lotus 97T was much more manageable in stock form than the Formula GT, so that led me to prefer it.

So, it seems like this week is a 6-1 vote in favour of the...

Elio_de_Angelis_im_Lotus-Renault_1985-08-02.jpg


1985 Lotus 97T!!!

(Congratulations to @Vic Reign93 and @Baron Blitz Red for posting the best times in last week's time trial!)

Don't worry, the Formula GT sure has it's fans out there too!

I'll be back in a bit with another duel for you all!
:cheers:

​
 
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GT6 Duel of the Week #79: Honda Race vs Tuner Battle!

Alright, so this week we have two Honda race cars with very aggressive aero and revving V-Tech engines. Both of these cars were made in Gran Turismo and they have somewhat similar stats. However we also have a front vs mid-engine car dynamic this week. So let's see if these two cars are close in lap times or not. This week we have the...

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Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo!

and the

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Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car!

The time trial this week will take place around Suzuka circuit, and tires will be back to comfort soft, so get ready to drive through many high-speed chicanes. I'd recommend going easy on the throttle this week, as traction control and all of that good stuff will be disabled. Good luck! ;)

​
 
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Not sure why cars have a sort of Rorschach test for me.
So the First thing that comes into my mind when I see...

Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo is ...
Joe Pesci
- Actor who played Tommy DeVito in Goodfellas. Also Harry Lime, one of the two burglars in HOME ALONe.​


Honda NSX-R Prototype LM ?
Howdy Honda Housey ('Rowdy' Ronda Rousey)
Martial Artist Judoka who will be fighting for the Laydees Bigchicken weight UFC Title tonight.​

Joe Pesci vs Ronda Rousey?
 
These two.
I was blown away by both and one of them has become one of my favourite cars to drive on GT6.

I did some TTs on Autumn Ring (This is now where I do all my TTs and I have no internet currently)

S2000 - 1:20.611 (SS) 1:20.919 (RH)
NSX - 1:19.252

Although the NSX is faster and the NSX has always been my favourite Japanese car, The Amuse is just such a blast to drive on SS tyres and to me that is what matters. Nothing Else Matters if you know what I mean. Also, It is much more affordable and you can actually customise it.

Yoshi's vote goes to the Amuse S2000 Turbo.

How amusing.
 
This was a good duel on the behalf of both cars. Hondas have a good handle on motorsport and everyday sports cars. (Well, while they were still making them.) Though, with a tuner facing off against a racecar, the tuner has to bring its A-game in order to compete well. Given that the S2000 has 34 more PP than the NSX, I'd say it has a decent fighting chance.

After some squabbling with the marshalls at Suzuka on tire requirements, I reluctantly fit my racing spec car and my tuner car with Comfort Soft tires, and ran a trial there. However, the results were just to get a feel for the cars and thus will not be a factor in the actual duel itself. Once both cars ran their trials, I fit Racing Hards on both to get them on reasonably even footing and headed off to the Matterhorn.

Rotenboden Trial:
S2000 - 1:36.758
NSX - 1:35.772

SSR5 Trial:
S2000 - 1:22.360
NSX - 1:22.445

GT Arena Trial (Sudden Death):
S2000 - 0:28.623
NSX - 0:28.407

So both of these cars are wildly different in approach. On Suzuka with the Comfort Softs, the S2000 felt more stable than the NSX. This flipped on the Rotenboden. The NSX was a lot more stable, and the S2000 spun its way round a lot. On flatter ground, the cars were a lot more evenly matched. Enough to prompt a one-lap tie-breaker. One that the NSX came out on top with.

This was a good duel between the two, but the NSX emerges the winner.
 
The S2000 is obviously Joe Pesci. He was just so funny in the film Goodfellas.
I guess he amused me. (Great mobster film by the way.)​

pesci-004.png

Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo, Yesterday​

Oddly the car does drive a bit like a shorty maniac with a slight self esteem issue.

Just taken both of these two out today and they are very evenly matched at Silvastun and Spa -
The S2000 is more, erm, hard work, but the NSX is also edgy once you get the car to its limit, which you need to push it to keep pace with the S2000 - No quick review this year as I need to really drive these two before I pick the S2000 for having a Green paint chip...
 
Surprisingly, I haven't tested the NSX LM Prototype Race Car, but I have tested the Road Car, and I was precisely 2 seconds slower in that car than the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo. I can only imagine how much faster the NSX Race Car will be. Have a happy new year everyone! Be safe, don't drink and drive, yadda yadda. :cheers:




165 mph - S2000 GT1 Turbo
159 mph - NSX Road Car
 
MidFieldMaven
Surprisingly, I haven't tested the NSX LM Prototype Race Car, but I have tested the Road Car, and I was precisely 2 seconds slower in that car than the Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo. I can only imagine how much faster the NSX Race Car will be. Have a happy new year everyone! Be safe, don't drink and drive, yadda yadda. :cheers:




165 mph - S2000 GT1 Turbo
159 mph - NSX Road Car
Click to expand...

Hey mate! Glad to see you frequently check around and post and comment, even when being burnt from the TT of 100s of cars throughtout 3 tracks in GT6. I think those 2 cars tested this week will be close to each other. NSX racecar has more grip due to aero mainly and S2000 has great balance and massive power to oppose that. I will report back about that with my findings in the next days probably.

All the best to you and your people for 2017 and the same to all of the members of TPU.
 
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Amuse --------------- Make ------------------- Honda
S2000GT1 Turbo ----- Model ----- NSX-R Prototype LM
594pp -----------------Performance Points------------- 560pp
2300cc -----------------Displacement--------------- 3500cc
616bhp ------------------Powah-------------------- 511bhp
58kgfm ------------------Torque-------------------- 38kgfm
4226mm -----------------Length------------------- 4436mm
1829mm -----------------Width--------------------- 1916mm
1207mm -----------------Height-------------------- 1090mm
7/30/15 -------- Mystery differential numbers -------- 10/40/20
​
Review to follow once I get some blood into my Negroni system
 
Wow, this weeks duel is a tough one. I found it a matter of which car I found the best able to deal with wheelspin. I found neither of them enjoyable on CS tires. Suprisingly, the S2000 was the least objectionable.

My times:
Amuse S2000 GT1 2:17.860
NSX-LM Racecar 2:18.941

So my vote goes to the Amuse.

I had a brain fart, and first used the NSX-LM road car and recorded a 2:18.739. Interestingly 2 tenths faster than the racecar. I may try them both offline on RH. And then again, maybe not. I struggle so much with throttle control on the old DS3.

Edit: I spent some time offline with these cars on RH tires. I decided to include the NSX road car to see how that compared. I got results similar to the TT. The S2000 is easily the winner, while the NSX race car is clearly the loser.

Amuse S2000 GTI 2:02.324
NSX-LM road car 2:03.564
NSX-LM race car 2:04. 722
 
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Gemasolar_3nsx.jpg



*** Round 1 *** Looks ***

Now these are very similar in terms of a concept ; a road car with all the bolt on bits of circuit racing - splitters, huge rear wing bulging wheel arches, vents, scoops.
The NSX-R has a homage livery that is almost a throwback to the Kunimitsu livery to the actual NSX LM that had a dash at, you guessed it, LeMans back in 1995 Winning its class... However it does suffer from standard model syndrome with some ragged low resolution markings which only detract from the overall look

But which looks best? The NSX-R - it has the mid engined layout which tends to elevate a cars proportions it is also low, wide and sleek. The S2000 looks great though but the rear wing looks a more out of place and oversized - But both are winners.

I have to call it even. the Shape of the NSX is better but the weakness of its low res livery lets the 12 chip S2000 even the score.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 10 ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10​


*** Round 2 *** Fear my Powah ***

616bhp - S2000 GT1 Turbo
511bhp - NSX-R LM

Hard to ignore what a big fat Turbo that the boys and girls at Amuse have managed to cram a lot of horsepower out of the bored out 2.3 litre four pot. The NSX has a respectable chunk of power and the delivery is a very forgiving. But 105BHP more is always a win. Perhaps even more so when you factor in just how light both cars are.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 10(20) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 8 (18)​

*** Round 3 *** Weight ***

1120kg - S2000 GT1 Turbo
1120kg - NSX-R LM

As retiring play by play UFC commentator Mike Goldberg would say - Virtually Identical -


S2000 GT1 Turbo - 10(30) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10 (28)​

*** Round 4 *** Torque ***

58Torques - S2000 GT1 Turbo
38Torques - NSX-R LM

When the S2000's engine does squeeze out the power it also does it in a rush all over the power band is a thick layer of torque. A far more urgent and eager power unit. Win for the Amuse.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 10(40) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 8 (36)​

*** Round 5 *** Tyres ***
The S2000 is fitted with the very softest of Sports Semi Slicks. The NSX-R has Hard tyres from the slickest of racing slicks

Sports Soft - S2000 GT1 Turbo
Race Hard - NSX-R LM

Now I will equalise the tyres for any test but you have to give a nod to the NSX-R's choice of rubber.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 7(47) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10 (46)​

*** Round 6 *** Negative Lift ***
(Front AERO) === (Rear AERO)
(100-150-200) === (200-400-500) S2000
(150-200-350) === (300-450-600) NSX-R

A lot of numbers there - first is the minimum, second is the stock value and the third is the maximum amout of aero you can crank into the car - the second triple is for the effect you can generate over the rear axel. And so you can see the NSX has the win here in all areas, Not a huge margin and in stock form the NSX-R looks like it is running lower proportional levels of aero than the S2000. This could have an effect on how each car handles... The NSX looks to have a click less than medium front aero while the S2000 looks to have much more rear aero than a medium setting would give. Both should have the effect of reducing oversteer (You can go two aero routes, lower the front aero or increase the rear to find the balance.)

I am never sure what is best to equalise cars with different Aero levels - Keep them stock - make them the same numbers or minimise both cars to run minimal downforce.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 7(54) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10 (56)​

*** Round 7 *** The Mullah Kazula - King of Cashmir ***

250,000 Kazulas - S2000 GT1 Turbo
1,400,000 Kazulas - NSX-R LM

Huge win for the Amuse here. You can buy over five and a half S2000 GT1 Turbos for the price of a single NSX-R... Thought I am not sure what exactly you would do with half an S2000(Is it the top half or the bottom half?)

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 10(64) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 6 (62)​

*** Round 8 *** Cubic Capacity ***

2300cc - S2000 GT1 Turbo
3500cc - 10200rpm - NSX-R LM

Bigger engines are always better.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 8(72) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10 (72)​

*** Round 9 *** Silvastun Test - 1 - Initial Impressions ***
4 laps in GT3 traffic. No driver aids, the S2000GT1 upgraded to Race Hards.
8m34.3 (2m04) S2000
8m24.4 (2m03) NSX-R

This was my first run with both cars and the S2000 is a feisty snarling foul mouthed car. It isn't very sharp under heavy braking and in loaded corners the back end can snap away if you are not balancing the steering inputs with much thought. A very visceral drive. But a few mistakes on the driver side of things May have cost the ultimate time.
The NSX-R was far more civilised - but it was still very much a citizen of the Peoples Republic of Oversteer. Some people don't like it here, hanging it out sideways steering left to make the car turn right, driving on the throttle in the corners, doing all the good things as you trail brake into corners because it is the back of the car that breaks traction first. The NSX was composed, the engine was much smoother and easier to get the power onto the track rather than into a big plume of vulcanised tyre smoke like the S2000.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 8(80) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10 (82)​

*** Round 10 *** Silvastun Test - 2 - No excuses ***
I just repeated the test again just to see if the S2000 and I can do a few laps strung together without it turning into a power slide drift exhibition. (Must drive like an Adult...)

8m18.8 (2m02) NSX-R
8m17.0 (2m02) S2000

Wow. The big factor here was not wasting buckets of time with mistakes under braking. The S2000 is very fast but it is very weak in the brake zones, Better to be a bit conservative into corners, and let that Big Fat Turbo do the heavy lifting be being silky smooth through the corners and carefully getting the power back on during the corner exit.


S2000 GT1 Turbo - 10(90) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 9 (91)​

*** Round 11 *** Wheres' Wallonia? ***

This is much more of a speed track so should favour the S2000? Don't be so sure.

11m46.1 (2m19.1) NSX-R
11m47.3 (2m19.3) S2000

nsx spa1.jpg


This was a lot of fun. The two are both fast and both have great grippy pointy front ends that let you really grab hold of the car by the scruff of the neck and give it the beans! But the NSX-R is more cultured and more composed, the S2000 has a huge power advantage but was less composed in the corners, and much more at risk of a mistake that could just be a loss of a couple of tenths with a dab of opposite lock to balance the car.

If you are on top form then I am afraid the S2000 has much more potential for a fast lap, but over a long race the S2000 could be a bit taxing.

S2000 GT1 Turbo - 8(98) ::: NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 10 (101)​

I love the brutal nature of the S2000 GT1 Turbo and in a way this is very tough to choose as I enjoyed both of them, but the NSX-R felt a bit more natural and considering it was the underdog in terms of PP the fact it smoked the S2000 initially by being so natural to drive and when pushed to the limit was the equal to its more powerful cousin.

ryk picks.jpg


Ryk chooses the Honda NSX-R LM Prototype Race Car
 
I thought it was time for me to throw those beauties in one of the best circuits of all times imho, and switched on the PS3. I was very sad to see the event was past its deadline :(, BUT! I saved the settings and made a room with the same ones! :sly:

So, I can post my findings on those 2 hotlapped in Suzuka 2014, on CS tires (I'd prefer SS at least but no real problem to test them on those too).

Laptimes:

Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo - 2:12.754 (S1 1:01.300, S2 47.056, S3 24.398) (I left a couple of tenths there from my best in sector 2)

NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car - 2:14.634 (S1 1:01.354, S2 48.450, S3 24.830) (I left 0.5" in sector 2 and another 0.5" in sector 3 from my best times per sector in the session)

Amuse clearly won the battle of Suzuka but 2" isn't their real difference. Less than a second would be their diff there if I had managed to put a good lap together in NSX. :banghead:

Amuse reached 262 km/h in main straight and slowed down to 49 km/h into the hairpin whereas NSX had 256 and 59 km/h, clearly showing its racing car setup (and my lack of driving ability with the 6-axis controller :guilty:).

Amuse has absolutely savage power because of its big turbo that when it's on, it propels it ahead with such power that makes you feel you are in a rocket. NSX is a racecar, also raw, but its power delivers more progressively being NA. NSX has a bit higher grip level also and less understeer in low speed corners being MR but Amuse is better in high speed turns due to its better weight distribution (close to the perfect 50/50) and because NSX has a setup to neutralize its tendency to spin as an MR with more weight in its tail by showing a small understeer from its wings' higher aero pressure than the Amuse's ones.

And since speed and performance is the main purpose of those 2 cars' existence, Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo gets the win for me. And for another time, a tuner wins a manufacturer (Ruf-Porsce, Alpina-BMW, etc).
 
Okay, this week we had two high-performance modified rides from Honda, with the S2000 being tuned by Amuse. Both cars achieved similar lap times with most of you this week, with the road version of the NSX-R Concept LM getting in on the fun a little bit with @MidFieldMaven. The NSX was definitely the riskier car of the two to drive, but it seems like hard work pays off, because on both stock and normal tires, it was faster around the track by a few hundredths of a second. But the S2000 makes me feel more confident while driving due to it's better stability and more grip. So overall, I'd pick the S2000 for my vote.

Now let's see the results:
Honda: 2
Amuse: 4

The winner is none other than the...

8563305439_2afa7cea4e_z.jpg


AMUSE S2000 GT1 TURBO!!!
(Congrats to @ThrasherDBS for wrecking last week's trial)

So I'll see you guys in a few minutes with a new duel for next week, It's only going until Sunday this time though... ;)
​
 
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Recently looking back on @Rotorist's suggestion of the RX-7 Aspadrink vs the RUF RGT, I thought that duel was a bit one-sided, so I'm going to test that a bit more before I decide if it's fair or not, in the meantime, I have a new duel for all of you German performance car lovers out there. This one even features the big three! BMW, Audi and Mercedes. This week, the cars are the...

GT6 Duel of the Week #80: Deutsche 3-Way!

DSC00705-1200-1024x576.jpg


2004 Mercedes-Benz SL600!!!​



See the next page for car #2

AUDIRS6-1556_6.jpg

And the 2002 Audi RS6 Sedan!!!

This week's TT will be held on the Nurburgring GP/F, so it's a bit shorter than doing an 8-minute lap. Tires will be any of your choosing for this week only because people seem to be upset that it brings unfair results during testing. See you all on the track, again! Tires will be set the way you guys want it once the poll is complete. I dunno, it's true that Comfort Softs are inferior tires, but some people say they bring out the characteristics of the car best in those conditions, so let me know what you think in the poll above.
​
 
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