GT7 and SimHub Tactile discussion
- Thread starter gti_sdn
- 721 comments
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,082
- N Ireland
Possibly, "Dash" and "Tactile" are likely to be the two most popular topics or adopted features.
"Simhub Shake-It & GT7" (individual discussion for tactile vibration effects)
This alone can cover quite a lot but to have that mixed in with discussions for dash/wind/motion could become a mess.
Yet I would expect different people could bring excellent content and info or discussion on each topic. Bringing things already learned/used with Simhub and PC titles but now applied to GT7.
Regards tactile, it's a deep rabbit hole of many opinions and viewpoints.
One of the most debated hardware elements in sim immersion.
One of the problems with it, is the wide range of different hardware or solutions. Understanding, amps, cabling, soundcards etc and many people struggle with it. In general, it is a confusing and multifaceted topic.
I would ask/recommend that dedicated threads are created
In the coming months, I will do my own thread, sharing more my own approach with tactile.
"Simhub Shake-It & GT7" (individual discussion for tactile vibration effects)
This alone can cover quite a lot but to have that mixed in with discussions for dash/wind/motion could become a mess.
Yet I would expect different people could bring excellent content and info or discussion on each topic. Bringing things already learned/used with Simhub and PC titles but now applied to GT7.
Regards tactile, it's a deep rabbit hole of many opinions and viewpoints.
One of the most debated hardware elements in sim immersion.
One of the problems with it, is the wide range of different hardware or solutions. Understanding, amps, cabling, soundcards etc and many people struggle with it. In general, it is a confusing and multifaceted topic.
I would ask/recommend that dedicated threads are created
In the coming months, I will do my own thread, sharing more my own approach with tactile.
I refer to my own personal approach/concept as "RaceBass", I illustrate below how it compares to various hardware but will not push my own approach onto others. I will see what interest it brings here at GT Planet. GT7 is however, rather amusingly the perfect opportunity to reach out to people that want a new approach with tactile but also one that is affordable to get into.
While my own approach also makes it possible to use or mix/add/boost "game audio-tactile" with "telemetry generated tactile". The best tactile hardware combos and installations can support created tones for specific scenarios. These can go upto the @ 200Hz felt/bass limitations and beyond 400Hz as audible elements potentially usable for specific effects or engine enhancements.
Many cars engines produce "signature tones" within that 200-500 and even upto @800Hz that are captured within the game audio. Yet often the user's own hardware has a limited bass response which cannot offer these frequencies sufficiently.
The most common budget tactile transducers cannot output this.
The other next big problem with tactile is that a single unit is limited in how well or how many effects it can handle/generate at once.
One of the ways we get around this is by applying more channels (Which Simhub makes possible) and with the exciters this then makes it possible to apply specific sensations to shoulders/mid-side/lower back regions. Now we have the ability to present multiple stereo sensations to individual pairs of units or better direct to what body region we want an effect element to be placed. How we then apply specific frequencies to better work together, also makes it possible with this approach to now generate much more advanced effect sensations. No longer trying to get a unit in the base of a seat or from the main rig frame to send all its limited vibrations over the users whole torso.
So here is one of the first reasons I experimented and adopted a usage to apply "multiple tactile exciters", as these offer a much wider frequency range than budget transducers used in seat cushions and many people's own rigs. The exciters can also be attached directly to the back/side of a seat or to pedals. Already the PC sim community has been adopting these in the last 1-2 years.
It is possible to build effects elements within Simhub that align and match a specific car's signature, to bolster the game audio but this is one of the advanced areas of tactile I see as offering potential. Also with my ongoing approach, using affordable "exciters" we can mix into (whatever units we want) "Game Audio" if desired.
"Game Audio" still can bring things in immersion we cannot do or achieve properly in Simhub
"Engine whine and engine characteristics", also certain track "surfaces/curbs" that have "audible sound" but generate no telemetry data.
So each approach or element has its own pros/cons and its too long to go into them all now.
My solution has been to develop and work on offering the ability to use or apply both options, yet at the same time bring a multichannel/multi-body region sensation installation that is affordable for the community. Making such the best affordable entry for tactile, however, as expressed also one that can be upgraded and support the high-end hardware.
I seek to continue to research and build effects, with my own guide being made, to help and teach the community how to create specialist effects for this new and exciting hardware approach.
I am confident, it will blow people away that have used traditional tactile in the past or 4-way installations based on budget tactile hardware. The combination of increased frequencies, multiple body regions and applying multiple channels, with the added ability to also have or mix game audio, lets see who is interested...
While my own approach also makes it possible to use or mix/add/boost "game audio-tactile" with "telemetry generated tactile". The best tactile hardware combos and installations can support created tones for specific scenarios. These can go upto the @ 200Hz felt/bass limitations and beyond 400Hz as audible elements potentially usable for specific effects or engine enhancements.
Many cars engines produce "signature tones" within that 200-500 and even upto @800Hz that are captured within the game audio. Yet often the user's own hardware has a limited bass response which cannot offer these frequencies sufficiently.
The most common budget tactile transducers cannot output this.
The other next big problem with tactile is that a single unit is limited in how well or how many effects it can handle/generate at once.
One of the ways we get around this is by applying more channels (Which Simhub makes possible) and with the exciters this then makes it possible to apply specific sensations to shoulders/mid-side/lower back regions. Now we have the ability to present multiple stereo sensations to individual pairs of units or better direct to what body region we want an effect element to be placed. How we then apply specific frequencies to better work together, also makes it possible with this approach to now generate much more advanced effect sensations. No longer trying to get a unit in the base of a seat or from the main rig frame to send all its limited vibrations over the users whole torso.
So here is one of the first reasons I experimented and adopted a usage to apply "multiple tactile exciters", as these offer a much wider frequency range than budget transducers used in seat cushions and many people's own rigs. The exciters can also be attached directly to the back/side of a seat or to pedals. Already the PC sim community has been adopting these in the last 1-2 years.
It is possible to build effects elements within Simhub that align and match a specific car's signature, to bolster the game audio but this is one of the advanced areas of tactile I see as offering potential. Also with my ongoing approach, using affordable "exciters" we can mix into (whatever units we want) "Game Audio" if desired.
"Game Audio" still can bring things in immersion we cannot do or achieve properly in Simhub
"Engine whine and engine characteristics", also certain track "surfaces/curbs" that have "audible sound" but generate no telemetry data.
So each approach or element has its own pros/cons and its too long to go into them all now.
My solution has been to develop and work on offering the ability to use or apply both options, yet at the same time bring a multichannel/multi-body region sensation installation that is affordable for the community. Making such the best affordable entry for tactile, however, as expressed also one that can be upgraded and support the high-end hardware.
I seek to continue to research and build effects, with my own guide being made, to help and teach the community how to create specialist effects for this new and exciting hardware approach.
I am confident, it will blow people away that have used traditional tactile in the past or 4-way installations based on budget tactile hardware. The combination of increased frequencies, multiple body regions and applying multiple channels, with the added ability to also have or mix game audio, lets see who is interested...
Last edited:
- 16
- Germany
- jajaballard
I would recomment to play around for a while with the effects to find your personal optimum. Too many options to give general recommondations.
I'm using for my first tries these effects:
ENGINE VIBRATION
GEAR SHIFT
ROAD IMPACTS
WHEELS LOCK
I'm using for my first tries these effects:
ENGINE VIBRATION
GEAR SHIFT
ROAD IMPACTS
WHEELS LOCK
For now i prefer the acceleration and speed feedback, and a little bit for the engine vibration, with , gear shift active.
It's brutal to feel the vibration grow when i accelerate and decrease when I brake. If I put the strong bass shaker driving inside the car i can feel a kind of vertigo🤣🤣... Now with time it's time to improve.
Last edited:
- 16
- Germany
- jajaballard
Quoted from the other thread....
Correct, NO lowpass filter needed, since only the frequencies required for the vibration are created by Simhub
- 16
- Germany
- jajaballard
- 19
- Canada
- 19
- France
Personaly, I have 1 bass shaker under the seat and 1 under the pedals, it gives a good feeling. For exemple, when you drive on a bump or a curb, you feel it first under your feet and then under your ass, really cool.
Plus you can isolate and tune different effects according to the front or the back of the car. I m sure there are better solutions, but it works for me ^^
Idealy, I'd like to have 4 bass shakers, one at each corner of the rig, but I need to find a good amp with 4 channel (and possibly an integrated sound card).
Last edited:
- 21
- France
Here you are:
I have a black elastic tissue cover to mask the wood and the BTS-1, that I removed for the picture. The TT25 is in a black wrist pouch attached on the back, and the nobsound is quite hidden near my left arm. Tomorrow I will add a TR25 on my pedals, directly connected to my PC (hopefully my PC sound card will accept it)(knowing I get the sound from headphones connected to an Astro mix-amp pro plugged on the PS5).
What works really well from my tests is to make sure BTS-1 and TT25 don’t share any common settings. I can feel much more things from the car this way
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- 76
- Australia
- gti_sdn
So these are the effects i am currently using and getting a good deal of sensation through the seat.
I have 2 large ish shakers like the BTS-1
At the moment this is doing well but now i know it all works rather than using audio i may start to change things up with some more amps and transducers.
I have 2 large ish shakers like the BTS-1
At the moment this is doing well but now i know it all works rather than using audio i may start to change things up with some more amps and transducers.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,082
- N Ireland
Last night I finally got around to connecting up the PS5 to have some fun with trying some effects. Its so nice to now be able to have this with GT7
THANK YOU to those that made this possible.
I have a good bit of experience to build much more advanced effects than using standard single layers with repeatedly used frequencies mostly within the 30-60Hz range that are commonly used by many people.
Not having Road Rumble available I worked on a nice speed/wind/road noise sensation to compliment the suspension.
I made a suspension that operates differently with SML/MED//LRG bumps and had these activated over the back of the seat by triple stereo pairs of units for much improved stereo sensations.
For engine, was using "RPM Response Curve" , it seems to need tweaked a bit differently to effects I had in how GT7 uses the curve, but easily adapted.
I have 8x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster exciters installed.....
See Parts Express or Sound Imports USA/EU/UK
3x Stereo Pairs
2x Mono
Powered by 2x 4 channel amps
These would be my recommendation for achieving a budget multichannel installation that can utilise much more advanced effects.
They can operate well over a much wider frequency range compared to most cheap transducers, Also, with direct connection to body/seat regions and upto 40W of output you get max detail and plenty of depth in felt sensations.
The combination of specially made effects that apply my own new approach with frequencies, by using musical principles with octaves, direct to body placement, with multiple body zones, outputting more power and making usage of their wider range in frequencies offers truly superb immersion potential over other options available.
I assure people, with the methods I can build effects, these exciters and this approach, it will outperform:
1. Motor Based Seat Pads
2. Dayton Pucks & Cushions Using Them
3. Traditional 1x 2x and 4x corner installations with various budget transducers.
Will spend more time tinkering with effects I have been working on and adapt them for GT7
Questions or queries I will try to help with...
THANK YOU to those that made this possible.
I have a good bit of experience to build much more advanced effects than using standard single layers with repeatedly used frequencies mostly within the 30-60Hz range that are commonly used by many people.
Not having Road Rumble available I worked on a nice speed/wind/road noise sensation to compliment the suspension.
I made a suspension that operates differently with SML/MED//LRG bumps and had these activated over the back of the seat by triple stereo pairs of units for much improved stereo sensations.
For engine, was using "RPM Response Curve" , it seems to need tweaked a bit differently to effects I had in how GT7 uses the curve, but easily adapted.
I have 8x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster exciters installed.....
See Parts Express or Sound Imports USA/EU/UK
3x Stereo Pairs
2x Mono
Powered by 2x 4 channel amps
These would be my recommendation for achieving a budget multichannel installation that can utilise much more advanced effects.
They can operate well over a much wider frequency range compared to most cheap transducers, Also, with direct connection to body/seat regions and upto 40W of output you get max detail and plenty of depth in felt sensations.
The combination of specially made effects that apply my own new approach with frequencies, by using musical principles with octaves, direct to body placement, with multiple body zones, outputting more power and making usage of their wider range in frequencies offers truly superb immersion potential over other options available.
I assure people, with the methods I can build effects, these exciters and this approach, it will outperform:
1. Motor Based Seat Pads
2. Dayton Pucks & Cushions Using Them
3. Traditional 1x 2x and 4x corner installations with various budget transducers.
Will spend more time tinkering with effects I have been working on and adapt them for GT7
Questions or queries I will try to help with...
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,082
- N Ireland
Here is an example showing some of the current effects work I mentioned above.
Below, is just a teaser look at my "Small" Road Vibration settings.
As a brief overview, for "Road Vibrations"
I have additional audible tones being mixed with punchier lower frequencies to enhance the felt vibrations go beyond offering basic thuds. The audible presence adds to the perception of the effect, both in the body/feel it offers but also increasing the stereo presence as you both, "hear" and distinctly "feel" it on the L/R sides.
Of course, the user can control the volumes for the felt "response element" or the audible "tone element" generated independently to create their own combined mix.
Track curbs in real life, will create audible (brrrr) sounds. I used studio-quality hardware/software in monitoring what frequencies curbs often have from (Youtube videos) including the harmonics generated as well. I then simplified this a little for these budget exciters.
My approach is different, using Simhub with musically matched partial octaves to create something more akin to the real thing.
So rather than having bumps using only 10Hz or 20Hz of range to represent their response/activity. And yes we typically see people using the "best punch" frequencies often and repeatedly with their budget transducers.
Instead, I am opting for a wider scope of feel in the variation of small-large bumps and how we displace these over the body. Currently using from 26Hz - 125Hz for these budget exciters for this effect alone, which is completely different to the normal approach right?
We cannot just send all the layers (from various multilayer effects) to a single unit, or pair of units as they will not create the same felt response as 6x exciter units working together can. Simply because in (using musically matched octaves) for specific sensations to different body regions achieves something we cant do with units installed to the chassis of a rig.
This approach, however, also lets us achieve and recognise more distinct differences in feel with (sml/med/lrg) road vibration responses as we are reducing the sensations to multiple units (improved efficiency) and multiple body zones (increased immersion) which you can't really do with single units on corners or typical installs.
Also we then have the benefits of the wider range in the output these exciters can deliver where most budget transducers only will operate at their best in a 30-80Hz range, this just isn't enough to deliver or achieve better-developed effects. This is why the recommended exciters as options bring about the "different approach" and "possibilities to deliver better effects" I seek to offer...
What I have done below is give a sample of the "Sml" element for Road Vibrations to try on your own setups.
Download the attached file, place it in your Simhub folder and rename it from having ".txt" extension to a ".siprofile" extension.
Then load it into Simhub and map the channels you want it operating over. Then set the volumes to your liking.
Like this....
Below, is just a teaser look at my "Small" Road Vibration settings.
As a brief overview, for "Road Vibrations"
I have additional audible tones being mixed with punchier lower frequencies to enhance the felt vibrations go beyond offering basic thuds. The audible presence adds to the perception of the effect, both in the body/feel it offers but also increasing the stereo presence as you both, "hear" and distinctly "feel" it on the L/R sides.
Of course, the user can control the volumes for the felt "response element" or the audible "tone element" generated independently to create their own combined mix.
Track curbs in real life, will create audible (brrrr) sounds. I used studio-quality hardware/software in monitoring what frequencies curbs often have from (Youtube videos) including the harmonics generated as well. I then simplified this a little for these budget exciters.
My approach is different, using Simhub with musically matched partial octaves to create something more akin to the real thing.
So rather than having bumps using only 10Hz or 20Hz of range to represent their response/activity. And yes we typically see people using the "best punch" frequencies often and repeatedly with their budget transducers.
Instead, I am opting for a wider scope of feel in the variation of small-large bumps and how we displace these over the body. Currently using from 26Hz - 125Hz for these budget exciters for this effect alone, which is completely different to the normal approach right?
We cannot just send all the layers (from various multilayer effects) to a single unit, or pair of units as they will not create the same felt response as 6x exciter units working together can. Simply because in (using musically matched octaves) for specific sensations to different body regions achieves something we cant do with units installed to the chassis of a rig.
This approach, however, also lets us achieve and recognise more distinct differences in feel with (sml/med/lrg) road vibration responses as we are reducing the sensations to multiple units (improved efficiency) and multiple body zones (increased immersion) which you can't really do with single units on corners or typical installs.
Also we then have the benefits of the wider range in the output these exciters can deliver where most budget transducers only will operate at their best in a 30-80Hz range, this just isn't enough to deliver or achieve better-developed effects. This is why the recommended exciters as options bring about the "different approach" and "possibilities to deliver better effects" I seek to offer...
What I have done below is give a sample of the "Sml" element for Road Vibrations to try on your own setups.
Download the attached file, place it in your Simhub folder and rename it from having ".txt" extension to a ".siprofile" extension.
Then load it into Simhub and map the channels you want it operating over. Then set the volumes to your liking.
Like this....
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,082
- N Ireland
Here is an additional sampler for the "Road Textures" but in this instance, I am combining all the elements for single channels.
Not as good as using multiple channels with the exciters but it should be an effect that will let some of you enjoy a sense of surface detail and extend a sensation for speed.
Download the attached file, place it in your Simhub folder and rename it from having ".txt" extension to a ".siprofile" extension.
Then load it into Simhub and map the channels you want it operating over. Then set the volumes to your liking.
Please note you can also use the "copy to clipboard" tool in Shakeit to copy effects or groups of effects from one profile to another.
You then use the "Paste" option which will appear on the right. This way you can easily place shared effects from others together and save as a new profile.
ENJOY!
Not as good as using multiple channels with the exciters but it should be an effect that will let some of you enjoy a sense of surface detail and extend a sensation for speed.
Download the attached file, place it in your Simhub folder and rename it from having ".txt" extension to a ".siprofile" extension.
Then load it into Simhub and map the channels you want it operating over. Then set the volumes to your liking.
Please note you can also use the "copy to clipboard" tool in Shakeit to copy effects or groups of effects from one profile to another.
You then use the "Paste" option which will appear on the right. This way you can easily place shared effects from others together and save as a new profile.
ENJOY!
Last edited:
- 389
- ontario, canada
- otakunorth
Thank you for sharing your data and experience, I'm finding the fine-tuning of this to be extremely difficult (though fun)Here is an example showing some of the current effects work I mentioned above.
Below, is just a teaser look at my "Small" Road Vibration settings.
As a brief overview, for "Road Vibrations"
I have additional audible tones being mixed with punchier lower frequencies to enhance the felt vibrations go beyond offering basic thuds. The audible presence adds to the perception of the effect, both in the body/feel it offers but also increasing the stereo presence as you both, "hear" and distinctly "feel" it on the L/R sides.
Of course, the user can control the volumes for the felt "response element" or the audible "tone element" generated independently to create their own combined mix.
Track curbs in real life, will create audible (brrrr) sounds. I used studio-quality hardware/software in monitoring what frequencies curbs often have from (Youtube videos) including the harmonics generated as well. I then simplified this a little for these budget exciters.
My approach is different, using Simhub with musically matched partial octaves to create something more akin to the real thing.
So rather than having bumps using only 10Hz or 20Hz of range to represent their response/activity. And yes we typically see people using the "best punch" frequencies often and repeatedly with their budget transducers.
Instead, I am opting for a wider scope of feel in the variation of small-large bumps and how we displace these over the body. Currently using from 26Hz - 125Hz for these budget exciters for this effect alone, which is completely different to the normal approach right?
We cannot just send all the layers (from various multilayer effects) to a single unit, or pair of units as they will not create the same felt response as 6x exciter units working together can. Simply because in (using musically matched octaves) for specific sensations to different body regions achieves something we cant do with units installed to the chassis of a rig.
This approach, however, also lets us achieve and recognise more distinct differences in feel with (sml/med/lrg) road vibration responses as we are reducing the sensations to multiple units and multiple body zones which you can't really do with single units on corners or typical installs.
Also we then have the benefits of the wider range in the output these exciters can deliver where most budget transducers only will operate at their best in a 30-80Hz range, this just isn't enough to deliver or achieve better-developed effects. This is why the recommended exciters as options bring about a new approach and possibilities to deliver better effects...
What I have done below is give a sample of the "Sml" element for Road Vibrations to try on your own setups.
Download the attached file, place it in your Simhub folder and rename it from having ".txt" extension to a ".siprofile" extension.
Then load it into Simhub and map the channels you want it operating over. Then set the volumes to your liking.
Like this....
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