GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[SpacedInvader]

Arguably you’d want the inverse of that though, imagine working up to S a small netcode issue, concertina bump and bang huge penalties that is a lot more than lower lobbies “accidents/malicious” contacts?

Just ramp up penalties to monstrous levels across all sports mode. Make people afraid of any contact. People drivevthe Tokyo grind race in SP with a very different mindset to how they drive against the AI in the normal slop.
Rewire their neural pathways...

 

[newmedia_dev]

Just ramp up penalties to monstrous levels across all sports mode. Make people afraid of any contact. People drivevthe Tokyo grind race in SP with a very different mindset to how they drive against the AI in the normal slop.
Rewire their neural pathways...

I think that approach risks creating a different problem.

If you ramp penalties to “monstrous levels” across all of Sport Mode you’re not really fixing behaviour, you’re just making the system more punitive in situations where it already struggles to determine fault.

In lower lobbies you genuinely have a lot of avoidable contact — poor spatial awareness, late braking, bad judgement etc — so strong guardrails there make sense.

But in higher SR lobbies the contacts you see are often very different:

• concertina effects into heavy braking zones
• small netcode taps in close racing
• draft compression
• unavoidable proximity bumps
• ambitious push to pass leaning
• most of the time less emotional retaliation

Those aren’t always malicious or careless, they’re often just a by-product of closer racing and typically closer speed differentials and consistency.

So if penalties are multiplied heavily everywhere you end up punishing the environments where drivers are actually racing closer and cleaner.

A more useful structure would probably be the opposite:

Lower SR lobbies

• heavier ghosting
• stricter penalties and higher ones
• strong guardrails while people learn racecraft
• develop racing intelligence and emotion maturity towards racing

Higher SR lobbies

• reduced ghosting
• penalties closer to what we have now
• more emphasis on driver responsibility

That creates a progression where better standards unlock more natural racing rather than just increasing punishment across the board. And it incentivises people to stay in the less penalty SR

The goal shouldn’t really be making people afraid of contact, it should be teaching better racecraft so the contact doesn’t happen in the first place.

 

[Lightsider74]

Being a long time online mp racer in other games I've seen it all before. The problem is people and their maturity levels. "Win at any cost" mentality. Wins are good but I'd take close fair racing all day every day regardless of finishing position.

I was actually impressed with the responsiveness of the ghosting in the corners in this. In one race I was chasing a player and it was obvious we were closely matched and I was having difficulty gaining on them for a couple of laps. I got the run on them out of the tunnel (race A) moved out to overtake and they shunted me into the right hand barrier. That's the kind of behaviour I just don't get. Completely needless. They had the skills to regain the position fair and square.

 

[SpacedInvader]

I think that approach risks creating a different problem.

If you ramp penalties to “monstrous levels” across all of Sport Mode you’re not really fixing behaviour, you’re just making the system more punitive in situations where it already struggles to determine fault.

In lower lobbies you genuinely have a lot of avoidable contact — poor spatial awareness, late braking, bad judgement etc — so strong guardrails there make sense.

But in higher SR lobbies the contacts you see are often very different:

• concertina effects into heavy braking zones
• small netcode taps in close racing
• draft compression
• unavoidable proximity bumps
• ambitious push to pass leaning
• most of the time less emotional retaliation

Those aren’t always malicious or careless, they’re often just a by-product of closer racing and typically closer speed differentials and consistency.

So if penalties are multiplied heavily everywhere you end up punishing the environments where drivers are actually racing closer and cleaner.

A more useful structure would probably be the opposite:

Lower SR lobbies

• heavier ghosting
• stricter penalties and higher ones
• strong guardrails while people learn racecraft
• develop racing intelligence and emotion maturity towards racing

Higher SR lobbies

• reduced ghosting
• penalties closer to what we have now
• more emphasis on driver responsibility

That creates a progression where better standards unlock more natural racing rather than just increasing punishment across the board. And it incentivises people to stay in the less penalty SR

The goal shouldn’t really be making people afraid of contact, it should be teaching better racecraft so the contact doesn’t happen in the first place.

No thanks. This is the type of esoteric response somebody who spends hours and hours and hours in sports mode might give. This would all work in custom lobbies.
For sports mode, everyone should be punished, monstrously, for all contact. Some players would be lost, but only those others want to see gone. Sports mode isn't the place for training people in racecraft. It's for enjoying an hour here or there racing likeminded others, not a training ground or gym (tho it might be that for the top top top percent of a percent; but that's not most of us.) If it's not enjoyable, it's failing.
I'd accept the odd monster penalty unfairly awarded against me if I knew ALL contact was being punished so. Because I'm pretty sure the serial disruptor would be driven out or reformed. The experience would be better 99% of the time.

 

[brockie]

Being a long time online mp racer in other games I've seen it all before. The problem is people and their maturity levels. "Win at any cost" mentality. Wins are good but I'd take close fair racing all day every day regardless of finishing position.

I was actually impressed with the responsiveness of the ghosting in the corners in this. In one race I was chasing a player and it was obvious we were closely matched and I was having difficulty gaining on them for a couple of laps. I got the run on them out of the tunnel (race A) moved out to overtake and they shunted me into the right hand barrier. That's the kind of behaviour I just don't get. Completely needless. They had the skills to regain the position fair and square.

This is a bad week mate, it isn’t usually so bad but yeah, stuff like that is poor right, got to keep believing these guys are in the minority

 

[newmedia_dev]

No thanks. This is the type of esoteric response somebody who spends hours and hours and hours in sports mode might give. This would all work in custom lobbies.
For sports mode, everyone should be punished, monstrously, for all contact. Some players would be lost, but only those others want to see gone. Sports mode isn't the place for training people in racecraft. It's for enjoying an hour here or there racing likeminded others, not a training ground or gym (tho it might be that for the top top top percent of a percent; but that's not most of us.) If it's not enjoyable, it's failing.
I'd accept the odd monster penalty unfairly awarded against me if I knew ALL contact was being punished so. Because I'm pretty sure the serial disruptor would be driven out or reformed. The experience would be better 99% of the time.

You have seen things like Tidgneys daily race guides, the actual races and bloopers? Those are A+/S lobbies with some of the fastest guys playing the game some ex and current world tour drivers and they still have non deliberate incidents with their pace, ability to control the car and trying their utmost to be fair…..what hope does that leave for the rest of mere mortals…

 

[NevilleNobody]

You have seen things like Tidgneys daily race guides, the actual races and bloopers? Those are A+/S lobbies with some of the fastest guys playing the game some ex and current world tour drivers and they still have non deliberate incidents with their pace, ability to control the car and trying their utmost to be fair…..what hope does that leave for the rest of mere mortals…

I see your point here, as I do watch those videos and do remember when GTSport had harsh penalties. However, it is way, way, way too loose right now. HARD contact is allowed, anything side on yields zero penalty, not a nudge, a flat out barge at full force. You can also barrel into T1, take out 10 cars and at most 5 seconds, usually 2 seconds, this is ridiculous.

I don't think changes need to be punitive to solve 80% of the contact.

 

[SpacedInvader]

You have seen things like Tidgneys daily race guides, the actual races and bloopers? Those are A+/S lobbies with some of the fastest guys playing the game some ex and current world tour drivers and they still have non deliberate incidents with their pace, ability to control the car and trying their utmost to be fair…..what hope does that leave for the rest of mere mortals…

Great. I'd want the top players punished too, even for unintentional errors. Those errors would probably get less common, but that's not at all my main concern. The 99% of us who are not top top players would see less disruption in our valuable time given to driving in sports mode.

The Tokyo grind race is the most satisfying race on the game for a reason; it forces you to drive well if you want the (substantial) CRB. Itcwas even better in the early days, 5 sec pen (8 sec by end of straight) for slightest wall contact, one scrape and chances of winning gone. It forces good driving. It can be done, they just need to transfer those principles to online races. I believe it's easier than you think and thecreason they won't do it is because they fear losing a segment of players. The serial disruptors.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Great. I'd want the top players punished too, even for unintentional errors. Those errors would probably get less common, but that's not at all my main concern. The 99% of us who are not top top players would see less disruption in our valuable time given to driving in sports mode.

But your argument punishes the guys still developing their car control, braking, acceleration more than the say Mid to High B and above drivers.

It discourages casual players to engage and learn because the system will create an experience of learning in a safe space to “I didn’t mean to sorry I’m still learning” wham you get brutalised, they think nah this ain’t for me and go back to bashing the AI. Which overtime shrinks the ecosystem further and it’s not particularly large relative to the player base as it is.

You also have to remember a few things as well:

The AI isn’t a good teaching tool (Sophy is a bit better but still)

The race formats are chase the rabbit so the incentive is to pass as quickly as possible because “you are so far back” at the start

The license tests teach control not race craft and consistency.

So you have no structured way in the game to reinforce better racing.

Lastly you have to remember that the age distribution is massive, my thinking as a 46 is a lot different to that of a 15 year old. This is an understated likely cause of a lot of incidents/malicious/cynical behavior.

 

[NevilleNobody]

The race formats are chase the rabbit so the incentive is to pass as quickly as possible because “you are so far back” at the start

This really is dumb, such a bad lesson.

 

[SpacedInvader]

But your argument punishes the guys still developing their car control, braking, acceleration more than the say Mid to High B and above drivers.

It discourages casual players to engage and learn because the system will create an experience of learning in a safe space to “I didn’t mean to sorry I’m still learning” wham you get brutalised, they think nah this ain’t for me and go back to bashing the AI. Which overtime shrinks the ecosystem further and it’s not particularly large relative to the player base as it is.

You also have to remember a few things as well:

The AI isn’t a good teaching tool (Sophy is a bit better but still)

The race formats are chase the rabbit so the incentive is to pass as quickly as possible because “you are so far back” at the start

The license tests teach control not race craft and consistency.

So you have no structured way in the game to reinforce better racing.

Lastly you have to remember that the age distribution is massive, my thinking as a 46 is a lot different to that of a 15 year old. This is an understated likely cause of a lot of incidents/malicious/cynical behavior.

I agree with pretty much all this except your first paragraph. As for the rest, yeah, the rabbit races are mostly slop, but you seem to think I see GT as a learning tool, and I don't; almost everyone playing it has watched races, knows about racing lines and apexes and most importantly knows that contact in racing is generally a BAD THING that often/usually ends in tears for one or both parties involved. And it should be so in online races too. If people understand any contact, deliberate or not, is likely to end any chances of winning, or a top 5 or whatever, then contact, deliberate or not, will be greatly reduced. That should be the aim. Yes, accidents happen, but punishing contact in a serious manner will bring about a better racing environment for all.

And ok, if you want people still 'learning' at the lower levels to be given some slack, just introduce tough pens for DR B upwards (any lobby where majority of drivers are DR B, that is). Though I believe C and lower drivers deserve protection from the crazies too so I'd recommend it for all.

 

[art3mis]

From the SCCA penalty guidelines:
1. Failure to control your car resulting in contact with
another car. (GCR 6.11.1.) [NOTE: Safe, consensual
drafting among cars in same class may be forgiven.]

a. Investigation by Race Director/Assistant Chief
Steward to determine circumstances.

b. Driver injury or significant body damage to one or
both cars, or only one car continues – CSA/RFA
position penalty to ensure car at fault finishes
behind car that could not continue

c. Clearly identified at-fault driver, no injury or body
damage – CSA with position penalty one position
greater than the number of positions lost.

d. Multiple contact by same driver in same session –
Race Director’s Probation – 1 to 3 weekends based
on circumstances or an RFA for further investigation.


If you shunt a car hard enough to do damage the official policy is "you finish behind that car". GT7 would be infinitely better if that were the guide line. Yes this includes accidental contact. Yes that's a good thing.

I'm a mid B/S driver. I will never be an A driver. A+ is so far beyond my reach it might as well be on Mars. My skills are as high as they're going to get.

I hit people by accident all the time. Most of the time that accident isn't one that would draw a penalty in any IRL racing series. When it IS severe enough to draw a penalty at most I get 4 seconds for PILEDRIVING someone into the wall such that they're 30+ seconds behind now.

If I knew that no matter how well I drove I was finishing behind that guy I'm never making a mistake that could allow it to happen again let alone doing it on purpose.

We all see multiple instances of the above 4 items per daily race we do. Imagine being parked a week for repeated contact in a single race. That'll stop the BS right quick. I would rather sport be a ghost town than what it currently is.

 

[SpacedInvader]

From the SCCA penalty guidelines:
1. Failure to control your car resulting in contact with
another car. (GCR 6.11.1.) [NOTE: Safe, consensual
drafting among cars in same class may be forgiven.]

a. Investigation by Race Director/Assistant Chief
Steward to determine circumstances.

b. Driver injury or significant body damage to one or
both cars, or only one car continues – CSA/RFA
position penalty to ensure car at fault finishes
behind car that could not continue

c. Clearly identified at-fault driver, no injury or body
damage – CSA with position penalty one position
greater than the number of positions lost.

d. Multiple contact by same driver in same session –
Race Director’s Probation – 1 to 3 weekends based
on circumstances or an RFA for further investigation.


If you shunt a car hard enough to do damage the official policy is "you finish behind that car". GT7 would be infinitely better if that were the guide line. Yes this includes accidental contact. Yes that's a good thing.

I'm a mid B/S driver. I will never be an A driver. A+ is so far beyond my reach it might as well be on Mars. My skills are as high as they're going to get.

I hit people by accident all the time. Most of the time that accident isn't one that would draw a penalty in any IRL racing series. When it IS severe enough to draw a penalty at most I get 4 seconds for PILEDRIVING someone into the wall such that they're 30+ seconds behind now.

If I knew that no matter how well I drove I was finishing behind that guy I'm never making a mistake that could allow it to happen again let alone doing it on purpose.

We all see multiple instances of the above 4 items per daily race we do. Imagine being parked a week for repeated contact in a single race. That'll stop the BS right quick. I would rather sport be a ghost town than what it currently is.

Absolutely.

 

[Stringerbell]

Very happy with this W, I’m at a point now where I’m able to learn tracks much quicker as usually a P2 quali and a lot in takes me 3/4 days if the week and a real long slog in quali. So pleased with that!

P2 this race after prob an hour total last night and today quali and in my 4th race. (Well technically 3rd race as the one before where I was P2 I had to quit as rather rudely a missile alert came through on the phone to go shelter 😂 very inconvenient).

 

[newmedia_dev]

From the SCCA penalty guidelines:
1. Failure to control your car resulting in contact with
another car. (GCR 6.11.1.) [NOTE: Safe, consensual
drafting among cars in same class may be forgiven.]

a. Investigation by Race Director/Assistant Chief
Steward to determine circumstances.

b. Driver injury or significant body damage to one or
both cars, or only one car continues – CSA/RFA
position penalty to ensure car at fault finishes
behind car that could not continue

c. Clearly identified at-fault driver, no injury or body
damage – CSA with position penalty one position
greater than the number of positions lost.

d. Multiple contact by same driver in same session –
Race Director’s Probation – 1 to 3 weekends based
on circumstances or an RFA for further investigation.


If you shunt a car hard enough to do damage the official policy is "you finish behind that car". GT7 would be infinitely better if that were the guide line. Yes this includes accidental contact. Yes that's a good thing.

I'm a mid B/S driver. I will never be an A driver. A+ is so far beyond my reach it might as well be on Mars. My skills are as high as they're going to get.

I hit people by accident all the time. Most of the time that accident isn't one that would draw a penalty in any IRL racing series. When it IS severe enough to draw a penalty at most I get 4 seconds for PILEDRIVING someone into the wall such that they're 30+ seconds behind now.

If I knew that no matter how well I drove I was finishing behind that guy I'm never making a mistake that could allow it to happen again let alone doing it on purpose.

We all see multiple instances of the above 4 items per daily race we do. Imagine being parked a week for repeated contact in a single race. That'll stop the BS right quick. I would rather sport be a ghost town than what it currently is.

There is a tiny difference between real motorsport and sim racing that you have to bear in mind:

Literally life and death is ever present to everyone with stark reminders everywhere

Cost, damage costs money and even the largest teams don’t like to throw it away let alone at club level and in between

And lastly race frequency, in real motorsports you get a finite amount of races but sim racing and GT in particular that limitation doesn’t exist so that again reduces people worrying about consequences when they can do more races in a weekend than some championships have rounds.

Things need to be change but it’s system level and up not just a couple of small isolated levers.

 

[Bondwhar]

I agree with pretty much all this except your first paragraph. As for the rest, yeah, the rabbit races are mostly slop, but you seem to think I see GT as a learning tool, and I don't; almost everyone playing it has watched races, knows about racing lines and apexes and most importantly knows that contact in racing is generally a BAD THING that often/usually ends in tears for one or both parties involved. And it should be so in online races too. If people understand any contact, deliberate or not, is likely to end any chances of winning, or a top 5 or whatever, then contact, deliberate or not, will be greatly reduced. That should be the aim. Yes, accidents happen, but punishing contact in a serious manner will bring about a better racing environment for all.

And ok, if you want people still 'learning' at the lower levels to be given some slack, just introduce tough pens for DR B upwards (any lobby where majority of drivers are DR B, that is). Though I believe C and lower drivers deserve protection from the crazies too so I'd recommend it

Penalties in this game are hard to police and we always open up a can of worms with this subject but debate is always good to have.
As a Low to mid DR B driver I try my utmost (I do fail) to be fair and let others past if I’m slower.
I have just finished Race B at Monza and decided to save this clip for this debate.
This guy (I have not named) is a B driver so should by now know his BP and also when to ease back a bit and let others race if he receives penalties.
After the 1st chicane he receives a 5 second penalty but and here’s the rub, he has possibly ruined 5-6 faster drivers of their race. I was running 2nd when he caught me and when he came alongside I noted his 6 second penalty and let him go otherwise I believe ‘I was next’! On the 2nd lap his bad driving happens again and all around him chaos reigns.
Surely with this erratic style a black flag should be warranted?
I’m open to suggestions and answers but also seriously interested in what you other GT7 folks think 🤔

 

[NevilleNobody]

This is what I mean by penalties don't need to be punitive to get rid of this BS. That's an absolute joke, stamp it out, stamp it out now. He's a very competent driver, choosing to drive like an arse. Ridiculous.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Penalties in this game are hard to police and we always open up a can of worms with this subject but debate is always good to have.
As a Low to mid DR B driver I try my utmost (I do fail) to be fair and let others past if I’m slower.
I have just finished Race B at Monza and decided to save this clip for this debate.
This guy (I have not named) is a B driver so should by now know his BP and also when to ease back a bit and let others race if he receives penalties.
After the 1st chicane he receives a 5 second penalty but and here’s the rub, he has possibly ruined 5-6 faster drivers of their race. I was running 2nd when he caught me and when he came alongside I noted his 6 second penalty and let him go otherwise I believe ‘I was next’! On the 2nd lap his bad driving happens again and all around him chaos reigns.
Surely with this erratic style a black flag should be warranted?
I’m open to suggestions and answers but also seriously interested in what you other GT7 folks think 🤔

That’s really interesting as the ghosting was strong in that lobby, was there a lot of C drivers in it?

He wasn’t that far from missing his mark to be fair, and it looks like to me at least that he was distracted by the viper and then T1 at Monza does T1 at Monza things it’s famous for.

See in that instance the ghosting worked he had actually almost slowed enough had it been lap lap 2 with the field spread a little more it wouldn’t have happened.

Just generally when you see how congested that all is at the start of the race it’s a lot of cognitive load, hit the earlier braking, cars passing then bugger they have all basically stopped.

His closing speed was down to 30mph, to me it’s a minor skill issue about timing, leaving safe gaps, survive Lap 1 instead of start racing from the lights etc.

There was an incident up ahead as well that happened before he’d made contact as well.

Another minor note is 2 cars were reset back on to his line which is another massive distraction as they just appear literally almost as he’s going up to them.

 

[SpacedInvader]

Penalties in this game are hard to police and we always open up a can of worms with this subject but debate is always good to have.
As a Low to mid DR B driver I try my utmost (I do fail) to be fair and let others past if I’m slower.
I have just finished Race B at Monza and decided to save this clip for this debate.
This guy (I have not named) is a B driver so should by now know his BP and also when to ease back a bit and let others race if he receives penalties.
After the 1st chicane he receives a 5 second penalty but and here’s the rub, he has possibly ruined 5-6 faster drivers of their race. I was running 2nd when he caught me and when he came alongside I noted his 6 second penalty and let him go otherwise I believe ‘I was next’! On the 2nd lap his bad driving happens again and all around him chaos reigns.
Surely with this erratic style a black flag should be warranted?
I’m open to suggestions and answers but also seriously interested in what you other GT7 folks think 🤔

Yep, we all suffer these clowns.

If the 6 secs became 30 or 60 secs sitting there ghosted at the penalty line it would at least let everyone else get ahead of him and he'd have to either quit or try catching up.

I just don't get the excuses offered; this is bad driving and deserving of punishment/correction regardless of whether he meant it maliciously or not.

 

[Bondwhar]

That’s really interesting as the ghosting was strong in that lobby, was there a lot of C drivers in it?

He wasn’t that far from missing his mark to be fair, and it looks like to me at least that he was distracted by the viper and then T1 at Monza does T1 at Monza things it’s famous for.

See in that instance the ghosting worked he had actually almost slowed enough had it been lap lap 2 with the field spread a little more it wouldn’t have happened.

Just generally when you see how congested that all is at the start of the race it’s a lot of cognitive load, hit the earlier braking, cars passing then bugger they have all basically stopped.

His closing speed was down to 30mph, to me it’s a minor skill issue about timing, leaving safe gaps, survive Lap 1 instead of start racing from the lights etc.

There was an incident up ahead as well that happened before he’d made contact as well.

Another minor note is 2 cars were reset back on to his line which is another massive distraction as they just appear literally almost as he’s going up to them.

All DR B and SR S

Yep, we all suffer these clowns.

If the 6 secs became 30 or 60 secs sitting there ghosted at the penalty line it would at least let everyone else get ahead of him and he'd have to either quit or try catching up.

I just don't get the excuses offered; this is bad driving and deserving of punishment/correction regardless of whether he meant it maliciously or not.

I agree and whilst we do miss our BP on occasion IMHO his style of driving post the 1st corner cements his intent for the whole race.
The sadness is that others lose their race because of this and we then lose good drivers who give up.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I agree and whilst we do miss our BP on occasion IMHO his style of driving post the 1st corner cements his intent for the whole race.
The sadness is that others lose their race because of this and we then lose good drivers who give up.

I think the over arching theme he is quite poignant

Monza T1 famous for carnage highlights and probably exaggerates the issues a little more.

And I go back to my earlier points about racing maturity and emotional regulation.

You can see the immature behaviour because from the first quarter mile and the remaining 5.5 laps to him it probably felt harsh and he’s emotionally unstable at that point.

Also it’s worth calling out more cars in the gravel at the end of the lap towards the end of the clip, and his rejoin is exactly the same as the car from the start but that ghosted he didn’t later in the vid.

Generally the overall lobby race craft still looked like it’s trying but a few rough edges, descion making, etiquette, space, awareness, control, emotional maturity all still being worked on and improved.

Again, I’m not saying more shouldn’t be done im just saying that a brute force doesn’t solve a systemic issue that the game relies on the competitive mode to teach race craft and judging 15 other peoples human randomness

 

[SpacedInvader]

That’s really interesting as the ghosting was strong in that lobby, was there a lot of C drivers in it?

There's a lot of ghosting in race A's BS lobbies too. Ghosting in DR B races is pretty common.

He wasn’t that far from missing his mark to be fair, and it looks like to me at least that he was distracted by the viper and then T1 at Monza does T1 at Monza things it’s famous for.

30 sec pen.

See in that instance the ghosting worked he had actually almost slowed enough had it been lap lap 2 with the field spread a little more it wouldn’t have happened.

If my gran had a dick she'd be my granpa.

Just generally when you see how congested that all is at the start of the race it’s a lot of cognitive load, hit the earlier braking, cars passing then bugger they have all basically stopped.

Punish repeatedly until he learns to be careful at race starts (esp any high-speed T1 chicanes).

His closing speed was down to 30mph, to me it’s a minor skill issue about timing, leaving safe gaps, survive Lap 1 instead of start racing from the lights etc.

Punish until he gets the skill. He's nearly there, according to you. (I just see a demented demon, but...)

There was an incident up ahead as well that happened before he’d made contact as well.

So there was. Pens for all involved.

Another minor note is 2 cars were reset back on to his line which is another massive distraction as they just appear literally almost as he’s going up to them.

Agree here. The resetting is stupid, just give 15 sec pen for any course cutting, served as normal at penalty line. The resetting at the esses at R Atlanta is the worst in the game I think. Idiotic. Just give a nice juicy penalty instead.

 

[benjoi84]

There are two missing pieces when it comes to penalties, by my reckoning. I do think them probably outside of the scope of what any automated system can handle:

- punishment for side to side contact, particularly (maybe exclusively) when it results in wall-planting or edging off the tarmac. Definitely a blind spot with the system as it is.

- a failure to account for, and justly reward "fair-play". That is to say, if players knew they could mitigate the severity of their penalty for hitting someone by giving the position back. Maybe this would counteract the points made earlier about excessive punishment for honest mistakes, and simultaneously educate players about the importance of being reasonable on the track.

In other news, if you'll pardon the bragging. I haven't often had much reason to blow my own horn when comparing to a lot of the very quick people in this forum but I had a good result in Race A today, along with some impressive consistency.

If the community consensus is that this combo is difficult, then I think I can give myself a pat on the back. It's not often that I do.

 

[brockie]

There are two missing pieces when it comes to penalties, by my reckoning. I do think them probably outside of the scope of what any automated system can handle:

- punishment for side to side contact, particularly (maybe exclusively) when it results in wall-planting or edging off the tarmac. Definitely a blind spot with the system as it is.

- a failure to account for, and justly reward "fair-play". That is to say, if players knew they could mitigate the severity of their penalty for hitting someone by giving the position back. Maybe this would counteract the points made earlier about excessive punishment for honest mistakes, and simultaneously educate players about the importance of being reasonable on the track.

In other news, if you'll pardon the bragging. I haven't often had much reason to blow my own horn when comparing to a lot of the very quick people in this forum but I had a good result in Race A today, along with some impressive consistency.

View attachment 1517815
View attachment 1517816

If the community consensus is that this combo is difficult, then I think I can give myself a pat on the back. It's not often that I do.

Excellent effort mate! I haven’t tried this race at all this week but I may well dip in at the weekend.

I must say Monza is getting better in the rooms I’m choosing which are around 0500 and 1900, just had another clean race, started p2 and through clumsiness and my overzealous acceleration I ended up spinning to the back!

Managed to recover it to 7th and a SR increase not quite enough for a DR increase.

Weekend going to be interesting

 

[newmedia_dev]

Punish repeatedly until he learns to be careful at race starts (esp any high-speed T1 chicanes).

Punish until he gets the skill. He's nearly there, according to you. (I just see a demented demon, but...)

So there was. Pens for all involved.

Do you beat a dog to make it fetch or reward its behavior? Do you cane children when they fail a test.

Historically punishment reduces willingness to improve and creates a mental model of prepared for punishment and in both children and dogs that can lead to later down the road things much worse than a bit of a missed braking point or immature driving in a sim.

 

[SpacedInvader]

There are two missing pieces when it comes to penalties, by my reckoning. I do think them probably outside of the scope of what any automated system can handle:

- punishment for side to side contact, particularly (maybe exclusively) when it results in wall-planting or edging off the tarmac. Definitely a blind spot with the system as it is.

- a failure to account for, and justly reward "fair-play". That is to say, if players knew they could mitigate the severity of their penalty for hitting someone by giving the position back. Maybe this would counteract the points made earlier about excessive punishment for honest mistakes, and simultaneously educate players about the importance of being reasonable on the track.

In other news, if you'll pardon the bragging. I haven't often had much reason to blow my own horn when comparing to a lot of the very quick people in this forum but I had a good result in Race A today, along with some impressive consistency.

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If the community consensus is that this combo is difficult, then I think I can give myself a pat on the back. It's not often that I do.

Heavy side contact should penalise both drivers equally, unless the software can determine whose steering inputs were causing it (and it should be capable of that; nevertheless, if it can't, punish both).
A decent driver who accidentally causes an incident should/would take the penalty AND give the place back. Why wouldn't they, the pen would already have put them out of the running, si why not be courteous and return the place?

Great win by the way, had a brace myself too, earlier.

Do you beat a dog to make it fetch or reward its behavior? Do you cane children when they fail a test.

Historically punishment reduces willingness to improve and creates a mental model of prepared for punishment and in both children and dogs that can lead to later down the road things much worse than a bit of a missed braking point or immature driving in a sim.

Children? Dogs? These are grown men being muppets (usually) on purpose. You have heard of these things called 'prisons', right? Not that I'd go quite that far for these demented drivers though...

Do you really think these guys need hugs and understanding? I'm happy to take a pen now and again when I've done something bad, even unintentionally. All I really want is stronger, longer pens to deter those who do bad things all the time. Justice for the victims.

 

[brockie]

Penalties in this game are hard to police and we always open up a can of worms with this subject but debate is always good to have.
As a Low to mid DR B driver I try my utmost (I do fail) to be fair and let others past if I’m slower.
I have just finished Race B at Monza and decided to save this clip for this debate.
This guy (I have not named) is a B driver so should by now know his BP and also when to ease back a bit and let others race if he receives penalties.
After the 1st chicane he receives a 5 second penalty but and here’s the rub, he has possibly ruined 5-6 faster drivers of their race. I was running 2nd when he caught me and when he came alongside I noted his 6 second penalty and let him go otherwise I believe ‘I was next’! On the 2nd lap his bad driving happens again and all around him chaos reigns.
Surely with this erratic style a black flag should be warranted?
I’m open to suggestions and answers but also seriously interested in what you other GT7 folks think 🤔

Yeah what can you say here, this is probably not someone invested like we are, braking too late, taking ppl out, trying to pass on each corner, these drivers need avoiding at all costs and I am sure they will end up quitting out or being rammed off by someone else,

There is no racecraft going on, no trying to nail each corner correctly

Sad really

 

[NevilleNobody]

Do you beat a dog to make it fetch or reward its behavior? Do you cane children when they fail a test.

Historically punishment reduces willingness to improve and creates a mental model of prepared for punishment and in both children and dogs that can lead to later down the road things much worse than a bit of a missed braking point or immature driving in a sim.

My 10 year old kept calling out at bed time, tried all sorts of motivations, nothing worked until I changed the wifi password. And buddy in the video is not jus missing his braking point, he was being totally reckless at T1 and later intentionally side-barged passed someone, classic modern maneuver that is unpunished. It's not a skill level man, he driving a Nissan and catching and passing guys hand over fist, he's dirty.

 

[Bondwhar]

There's a lot of ghosting in race A's BS lobbies too. Ghosting in DR B races is pretty common.

30 sec pen.

If my gran had a dick she'd be my granpa.

Punish repeatedly until he learns to be careful at race starts (esp any high-speed T1 chicanes).

Punish until he gets the skill. He's nearly there, according to you. (I just see a demented demon, but...)

So there was. Pens for all involved.

Agree here. The resetting is stupid, just give 15 sec pen for any course cutting, served as normal at penalty line. The resetting at the esses at R Atlanta is the worst in the game I think. Idiotic. Just give a nice juicy penalty instead.

“If my gran had a dick she'd be my granpa.”
That’s hilarious 🤣

 

[art3mis]

Do you beat a dog to make it fetch or reward its behavior? Do you cane children when they fail a test.

Historically punishment reduces willingness to improve and creates a mental model of prepared for punishment and in both children and dogs that can lead to later down the road things much worse than a bit of a missed braking point or immature driving in a sim.

I don't care about making them better I care about making them stop doing it. Whether that's quitting online racing or learning to be better is 100% irrelevant to me.