GT7 Daily Race Discussion

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SpacedInvader
Children? Dogs? These are grown men being muppets (usually) on purpose. You have heard of these things called 'prisons', right? Not that I'd go quite that far for these demented drivers though...

Do you really think these guys need hugs and understanding? I'm happy to take a pen now and again when I've done something bad, even unintentionally. All I really want is stronger, longer pens to deter those who do bad things all the time. Justice for the victims.
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And if they are grown men do you think that 5/10/20 seconds of penalties matter?

Over there years there have been quite a few GT trolls and it just elevates their status to YouTube videos, shorts which the notoriety then incentivises the behaviour then you have people taking revenge which has collateral damage to others.

Your solution is only one layer, but behaviour works on multiple levels.

When you are 10 mins late for work because of traffic do you lose the whole days work but no pay as punishment?

You see how that would make you feel, would your productivity for the rest of the day be 100% or meh.

You keep assuming these are grown men, yes in this thread mostly, but how old were you when you got your first gran Turismo or online racing game?

I’LL KEEP SAYING IT, THE SYSTEM NEEDS IMPROVEMENTS BUT IT HAS TO BE SYSTEMIC PENALTIES JUST SOLVE THE NOW IT DOESNT STOP HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF THROUGH HOW PLAYERS ARE TAUGHT.

And zoom out if there are 1000s of players like this, is it penalties or what they think are shown as acceptable is the real problem?
 
newmedia_dev
And if they are grown men do you think that 5/10/20 seconds of penalties matter?
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A 30 or 60 sec pen will allow the victims to get well ahead of the offender (intentional or not) and usually leave the offender racing alone at the back. I care about the victims, not the offender. They can ragequit if they want. No worries.

newmedia_dev
Over there years there have been quite a few GT trolls and it just elevates their status to YouTube videos, shorts which the notoriety then incentivises the behaviour then you have people taking revenge which has collateral damage to others.
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Don't care. They can troll 30 secs behind the field.
newmedia_dev
Your solution is only one layer, but behaviour works on multiple levels.

When you are 10 mins late for work because of traffic do you lose the whole days work but no pay as punishment?

You see how that would make you feel, would your productivity for the rest of the day be 100% or meh.

You keep assuming these are grown men, yes in this thread mostly, but how old were you when you got your first gran Turismo or online racing game?
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I got GT 3 in 2001 when I was already grown up. These are grown men, playing in daytime on schooldays. I have teenage/early 20s kids. Children really don't get this petulant/vindictive and maintain it. They are men.

You sound very caring. Im sure you're sweet in real life (and i mean that genuinely) but i think you maybe don't get how dark some people's hearts are.
newmedia_dev
I’LL KEEP SAYING IT, THE SYSTEM NEEDS IMPROVEMENTS BUT IT HAS TO BE SYSTEMIC PENALTIES JUST SOLVE THE NOW IT DOESNT STOP HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF THROUGH HOW PLAYERS ARE TAUGHT.
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I don't care about people getting taught (are you a teacher?) I want them behaving better (not racing better; most are capable of racing well) or gone.
newmedia_dev
And zoom out if there are 1000s of players like this, is it penalties or what they think are shown as acceptable is the real problem?
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Probably not 1000s. A few hundred.
And it's both the things you mention. The penalties as they are are too light, multiply by x5 or x10 across the board.
 
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SpacedInvader
A 30 or 60 sec pen will allow the victims to get well ahead of the offender (intentional or not) and usually leave the offender racing alone at the back. I care about the victims, not the offender. They can ragequit if they want. No worries.


Don't care.

I got GT 3 in 2001 when I was already grown up. These are grown men, playing in daytime on schooldays. Children really don't get this petulant/vindictive and maintain it. They are men.

You sound very caring. Im sure you're sweet in real life (and i mean that genuinely) but i think you maybe don't get how dark some people's hearts are.

I don't care about people getting taught. I want them reformed or gone.

Both.
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Mate we have had harder pens in GTSport and in the early GT7 days there was uproar because it was unfair to innocent parties because we all make mistakes but are mistakes aren’t as bad as someone else’s.

You then have when track limits was set to championship spec. Complaints before was “people abusing track limits” and then “this isn’t fair it’s too harsh”

So simple levers don’t always have the intended outcome you think.

Now I will say this clearly one more time, I agree with you it needs fixing but to fix it requires deeper thinking and implementation than what we have now because historically it hasn’t worked just pulling one lever you have to have a system to make better driving the norm first or you basically end up with people not playing and staying around, seasoned players continually feeling unfairly punished so the leave and the player base shrinks and shrinks, the barrier to entry becomes higher and higher for the curious 35yo who likes racing but has the controller fidelity of a pirate who’s doing it with his wooden leg but wants to learn AND have fun.

Sure it’s simple to whack the pen second hammer but it’s quite simple solution to what’s actually a more integrated and layered problem.
 
newmedia_dev
Mate we have had harder pens in GTSport and in the early GT7 days there was uproar because it was unfair to innocent parties because we all make mistakes but are mistakes aren’t as bad as someone else’s.
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This is true, I also remember intentional brake checking. But we are well beyond that now, the side contact is really, really bad at the moment and there's nowhere near enough penalty for just insanely high entry speed into 1st corners for example, these are not subtleties that need correcting, these are blatant and easy to police.
 
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NevilleNobody
This is true, I also remember intentional brake checking. But we are well beyond that now, the side contact is really, really bad at the moment and there's nowhere near enough penalty for just insanely high entry speed into 1st corners for example, these are subtleties that need correcting, these are blatant and easy to police.
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Agreed, and there are 2 things the game better understanding it and the players understanding how to drive side by side and that takes safe practicing not full ranked racing learning.
 
NevilleNobody
This is true, I also remember intentional brake checking. But we are well beyond that now, the side contact is really, really bad at the moment and there's nowhere near enough penalty for just insanely high entry speed into 1st corners for example, these are not subtleties that need correcting, these are blatant and easy to police.
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I was following very very closely a car (Race B) today on the final lap and past the penalty detection zone as he carried a 0.5 penalty to the finish line. He swerved right in front of me and braked hard and we hit and he then crossed the line and I followed him.
Massive brake check to nullify his 0.5 second penalty (rounded up to 1), but luckily I still came 2nd by 0.003 but should have been a clear second or there abouts.
Blatant cheating and he even thanked me afterwards for a ‘clean CLOSE race’ 🤭
 
Yeah I get braked checked at least 3-4 times a week. Mostly headed into penalty zones where the guy ahead tries to use my bumper as a boost pad to not lose as much time.

I also get walled several times a week. I also get rear ended multiple times a week. The vast majority of these instances are purposeful contact. It's bad enough that I quit online racing unless the car/track combination is extremely appealing and even then I make sure to limit my own participation because I know most of the races are going to be bad.

I go so far as to quit lobbies when I recognize names and if I see an abundance of specific flags I also leave. I would rather tank my own SR by quitting out of lobbies and races than play with garbage people.

This is all at S SR mid to high B DR. Don't tell me "oh just get faster they'll get better" because that's a straight up lie AND not even possible for lots of people. I've hit my skill ceiling for DR. This is as good as I will ever be. I can't "move up to cleaner lobbies". Instead I don't daily unless the combo is inanely compelling and even then I grit my teeth and get ready for garbage racing.
 
art3mis
Yeah I get braked checked at least 3-4 times a week. Mostly headed into penalty zones where the guy ahead tries to use my bumper as a boost pad to not lose as much time.

I also get walled several times a week. I also get rear ended multiple times a week. The vast majority of these instances are purposeful contact. It's bad enough that I quit online racing unless the car/track combination is extremely appealing and even then I make sure to limit my own participation because I know most of the races are going to be bad.

I go so far as to quit lobbies when I recognize names and if I see an abundance of specific flags I also leave. I would rather tank my own SR by quitting out of lobbies and races than play with garbage people.

This is all at S SR mid to high B DR. Don't tell me "oh just get faster they'll get better" because that's a straight up lie AND not even possible for lots of people. I've hit my skill ceiling for DR. This is as good as I will ever be. I can't "move up to cleaner lobbies". Instead I don't daily unless the combo is inanely compelling and even then I grit my teeth and get ready for garbage racing.
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This was my point earlier about the fact we are focusing on the habitual offender rather than the victim. That is the sad side of this penalty system when clean, fair and enthusiastic folks leave.
Hope you find a way around this issue and find time to enjoy this ‘game’ as it is fantastic when all the planets align. 🫶🏻
 
SR now S and DR just into C after a total of 9 races. Did 1 race B in the Mégane as I had no idea which is the fastest.

Won a couple too. Overall I'm enjoying it.
 

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Circling back to the issues @newmedia_dev mentioned when penalties were harsh in GTSport, part of the uproar was how easy it was to be "reset". So a few small taps an it was possible to go from SRS to to SRC and DRA to DRC.

The whole system needs a revamp, right now there is really only SRA and SRS, this needs to be at least 5 legitimate levels, maybe more more, and the top level should be tough to get to so the clean guys can race clean guys, even if a few level 2 guys are blended in to get to 16 cars.
 
Right lads, as much as this is such a fun and quite deep problem to solve, I got my gold TT time for the new one, my QTs won’t improve this week now and I’ve got to go do 4 days of stag do with 20 year old millennials in Portugal (we aren’t doing golf FFS)…wish me luck in the paint ball and zorbball??? Already said I’m not pedaling the beer bike!

Good luck and good speed racers, remember the carnage is temporary you’ll recover the other side next week
 
NevilleNobody
Circling back to the issues @newmedia_dev mentioned when penalties were harsh in GTSport, part of the uproar was how easy it was to be "reset". So a few small taps an it was possible to go from SRS to to SRC and DRA to DRC.

The whole system needs a revamp, right now there is really only SRA and SRS, this needs to be at least 5 legitimate levels, maybe more more, and the top level should be tough to get to so the clean guys can race clean guys, even if a few level 2 guys are blended in to get to 16 cars.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. The highest safety rating should be very hard to keep. It should be a reward for consistency and skill, whereas most drivers seem to regard it as easy come easy go. In all honesty, an ecosystem needs to be cultivated where a "Super S" safety rating is the badge of honour everyone is striving for.
 
art3mis
I've long thought that there needs to be actual financial rewards for clean and safe driving. Safety rating is functionally meaningless across all levels of driver skill. There's no penalty for not being safe and clean, no real reason to drive that way.

There is, however, advantage to be gained by being dirty. Forcing another car off track is a position you gain and get rewarded financially for. It also tracks in your stats.
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The single-player game rewards reckless driving and creates bad habits. The player should be able to set a target DR and target SR in the single player game and that should then be enforced in all parts of the single-player game.

The single player mode needs grid starts and stronger wheel-to-wheel racing. At least the Power Pack is making progress on this.

Every Sport Mode race should have a circuit experience defined for it with the exact configuration (including track limits) that is used in the Sports Mode race. This way people can practice in a more practical way than just the TT.

Below DRA, one should be required to complete a certain minimum number/% of clean TT laps before entering the race. The UI actually makes it harder to do the right thing here than to just jump into a race without any practice; this should be fixed. No more entry into a race without at least one clean TT lap.
 
Maybe @brockie was right and theres less niggle at Monza now. Had three excellent races for 2 wins and a 2nd place, though two still involved T1 problems. The one I was involved in was cordial, I got a run and the viper brakes a smidge early so buddy tried to avoid ramming him and turned in on me. No harm no foul I guess.

In these two races I waited for the right opportunities, did not rush my moves. The audi in the second race was rapid but I could tell he was really wringing its neck and was likely to make small errors.

Once through T1 though, felt all 3 opponents in the 2 races were very clean.



 
Finally back in to the SR S, still some niggly things going on get spun here and there by cowboys trying to take corners 2 wide but I suppose it is what it is.

For some me reason I’m drawn to Monza can’t keep away! Still trying to get my QT into the 49s but stuck at 50.2

@mellofello9 nice QT yourself mate! You gotta go better that one! You too @Childe Roland 😁

Good weekend when it find you
 

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The Race C combo of St. Croix + FR car hhas been a blessing for me so far. Never once have had my DR decrease even once in the 5 days of playing here. I managed to take part in 3 races where I somehow started on pole (thanks to my time of 2:21:400). I was able to win all of the three races which still feels awesome. It feels awesome because I know these glory days/moments won't last as mostly I finish in top 5 if the race goes good. I may suffer or do average in next week's batch of daily races as the car+track combo may not suit me as much. So just enjoying this + F1 season has officially started making my thrill even higher & greater.

What I've learned after seeing the A+ driver (such as Calster, SammySnake, NoDigit) race streams is that instead of fighting every turn & every lap, rather work in unison to either catch the leader ahead or to create a gap from the ones behind. All of those starting immediately behind me for racing each other hard instead of bumpdrafting which is why at the end, I always had a gap to P2 and lower. Had I been in their position, I would bumpdraft as that's faster at the end. All of them are real clean & fair drivers though which I appreciate the most about them.

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Uday9479
The Race C combo of St. Croix + FR car hhas been a blessing for me so far. Never once have had my DR decrease even once in the 5 days of playing here. I managed to take part in 3 races where I somehow started on pole (thanks to my time of 2:21:400). I was able to win all of the three races which still feels awesome. It feels awesome because I know these glory days/moments won't last as mostly I finish in top 5 if the race goes good. I may suffer or do average in next week's batch of daily races as the car+track combo may not suit me as much. So just enjoying this + F1 season has officially started making my thrill even higher & greater.

What I've learned after seeing the A+ driver (such as Calster, SammySnake, NoDigit) race streams is that instead of fighting every turn & every lap, rather work in unison to either catch the leader ahead or to create a gap from the ones behind. All of those starting immediately behind me for racing each other hard instead of bumpdrafting which is why at the end, I always had a gap to P2 and lower. Had I been in their position, I would bumpdraft as that's faster at the end. All of them are real clean & fair drivers though which I appreciate the most about them.

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Well done, it's always nice to get a string of good results against fair competitors, the stars don't align that often in this game.
Interesting that every race here has a wide range of DR, A to D, and SR too. I've noticed similar in most of my race A outings this week too, so I'm wondering if fewer people are playing online at the moment. As a mid-to-high B DR player it's always been quite common for me to be in all-B or all-B with one or two As lobbies. Something changed, or time of year perhaps?
 
NevilleNobody
Maybe @brockie was right and theres less niggle at Monza now. Had three excellent races for 2 wins and a 2nd place, though two still involved T1 problems. The one I was involved in was cordial, I got a run and the viper brakes a smidge early so buddy tried to avoid ramming him and turned in on me. No harm no foul I guess.

In these two races I waited for the right opportunities, did not rush my moves. The audi in the second race was rapid but I could tell he was really wringing its neck and was likely to make small errors.

Once through T1 though, felt all 3 opponents in the 2 races were very clean.



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brockie
Finally back in to the SR S, still some niggly things going on get spun here and there by cowboys trying to take corners 2 wide but I suppose it is what it is.

For some me reason I’m drawn to Monza can’t keep away! Still trying to get my QT into the 49s but stuck at 50.2

@mellofello9 nice QT yourself mate! You gotta go better that one! You too @Childe Roland 😁

Good weekend when it find you
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You two have convinced me that I should give Monza a little go this evening, so let's see what the carnage is like :0

I also think I need to work on my race craft - 4 races last night in total - 2 first place finishes starting from p2 and pulling away in the lead from lap 3 onwards. 2 last place finishes starting P7 and P5 - turns out my racecraft leaves a lot to be desired!!!! :lol:
 
Fezzik
Beware anyone who comes across me in a race for the next few weeks. If I hit you it's not my fault.
I gave in and bought a wheel. This won't go well.
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Congratulations.....I'll be going for one too in the first week of May, probably a G29. I'm excited for the transition. It's like getting a double dose of power because not only wheel will make my inputs smoother, the pedals will assist me further with progressive acceleration & trail braking which is not fully convinient with fingers.

Enjoy the transition & be patient as man have said it takes time to get up to speed or match the controller times. BTW, which wheel You bought? A full rig setup?
 
Uday9479
Congratulations.....I'll be going for one too in the first week of May, probably a G29. I'm excited for the transition. It's like getting a double dose of power because not only wheel will make my inputs smoother, the pedals will assist me further with progressive acceleration & trail braking which is not fully convinient with fingers.

Enjoy the transition & be patient as man have said it takes time to get up to speed or match the controller times. BTW, which wheel You bought? A full rig setup?
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G29 of course. I thought it was mandatory for baby/racer's first wheel.
 
Ugh. Guess I'll be doing some road car racing at Alsace because I hate the other 2 tracks.
 

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