GT7 Update 1.66: Downshifting Concerns and Penalties.

[AbbeBusoni]

Recent GT7 updates especially update 1.66 have exposed several serious problems that are damaging online racing quality.

• Downshift lockout introduced in recent updates blocks driver input instead of relying on physics, making cars feel unnatural to drive
• Penalty system regularly punishes victims rather than aggressors, dive bombs, bump-to-pass and push-to-pass often go unpenalised
• SR/DR integrity is suffering, with clean drivers losing ratings while reckless behaviour is ignored
• Track limits and penalties are inconsistent, with harsh penalties in some corners and none in others

The result is increasing frustration, more toxic lobbies, and players openly discussing moving to ACC or iRacing.

If GT7 wants to retain serious sim racers, these issues , especially undisclosed changes to core driving behaviour and inconsistent stewarding, need urgent attention.

 

[Lomic]

On these 4 points I only see one related to 1.66.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I concur with @Lomic, only one point is relevant to the topic. That said, the shifting it HORRIBLE.

I also came to the forum to complain about this new downshift garbage. Just blow the engine or lock the tires if the engine over revs, this lockout is TERRIBLE. It feels like downshifting it broken. Most of the time, IT IS BROKEN, with missed shifts for no apparent reason. Shifts that SHOULD give me near redline, or well below redline, give me NOTHING. Sometimes, it's MILES away from redline and it's just a missed shift.

Maybe it's because I am accustomed to slipper clutches on track bikes. You go into a corner, you start grabbing gears, and the clutch does the rest. The rear end might hop a little, but that's it. I get to select my gear BEFORE the corner. If I don't get a gear, that's a REALLY bad feeling.

NOW, this fixed has created a stupid game of "will I get a gear?" IT FEELS AWFUL and this idea that it's a cheat could simply have been address by locking the drive wheels on over rev, removing the braking effect. This solution is the worst possible solution. I wouldn't call the game unplayable, but it is damn close to being unplayable with the manual shift 💩

 

[AbbeBusoni]

Recent GT7 updates especially update 1.66 have exposed several serious problems that are damaging online racing quality.

• Downshift lockout introduced in recent updates blocks driver input instead of relying on physics, making cars feel

On these 4 points I only see one related to 1.66.

unnatural to drive
• Penalty system regularly punishes victims rather than aggressors, dive bombs, bump-to-pass and push-to-pass often go unpenalised
• SR/DR integrity is suffering, with clean drivers losing ratings while reckless behaviour is ignored
• Track limits and penalties are inconsistent, with harsh penalties in some corners and none in others

The result is increasing frustration, more toxic lobbies, and players openly discussing moving to ACC or iRacing.

If GT7 wants to retain serious sim racers, these issues , especially undisclosed changes to core driving behaviour and inconsistent stewarding, need urgent attention.

On these 4 points I only see one related to 1.66.

Fair point as not all of these issues started with 1.66. The concern is that 1.66 adds a new, fundamental driver-input issue on top of long-standing problems that remain unresolved. That’s why it feels like a tipping point.

 

[hyperspeed980]

Nice GPT prompt, pal.

 

[King_Jinx]

Would it have been better to lock the wheels and spin the car out when money shifting? Maybe. But disallowing the shift is better than the years-long exploit of allowing it to engine brake in a straight line while bouncing off the rev limiter.

It was an exploit. It's fixed. Learn to adapt and time your downshifts better.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

Nice GPT prompt, pal.

Thanks for the compliment! If you disagree with the points, feel free to address them.

 

[JDMKING13]

I never noticed anything different with my driving for I never drove like that anyway.. If it took away some of that nasty downshifting I’ve seen people do in some videos I’m down for it.

 

[NekoPufferPPP]

If you hold the shift down button down before it lets you shift down, it'll shift down automatically for that one gear as soon as the threshold is met.

Odd.

 

[TumeK5]

Thanks for the compliment! If you disagree with the points, feel free to address them.

It's too bad ChatGPT doesn't come with a sarcasm detector. 🤣

 

[AbbeBusoni]

Would it have been better to lock the wheels and spin the car out when money shifting? Maybe. But disallowing the shift is better than the years-long exploit of allowing it to engine brake in a straight line while bouncing off the rev limiter.

It was an exploit. It's fixed. Learn to adapt and time your downshifts better.

Imo I don’t think blocking driver input is the right way to handle mistakes. In a simulator errors like a bad downshift should have real consequences that follow the laws of physics instead of being ignored. If someone does a money shift, the car should show instability, lock the wheels, or put stress on the drivetrain, rather than ignoring what the driver did.

With over forty years of driving experience, I’ve seen that people learn mechanical sympathy by facing real consequences, not by hitting hidden limits. Making the physics more realistic would better fit the main goals of simulation. Completely blocking shifts just takes control away from the driver.

It's too bad ChatGPT doesn't come with a sarcasm detector. 🤣

No worries, sarcasm is just part of being on a forum.
But my point still stands.

 

[ShiftingGears]

What do you mean lol mashing the downshifts in GT was absolutely farcical

Nothing worse than seeing the quick guys bouncing off the limiter down to first then upshifting to third on corner exit

It wasn't fun or realistic and this is an objective improvement

 

[AbbeBusoni]

If you hold the shift down button down before it lets you shift down, it'll shift down automatically for that one gear as soon as the threshold is met.

Odd.

Exactly what I mean. If you hold the downshift paddle before the game decides the RPM is acceptable, the gear change is stored and then happens automatically once the threshold is reached. In a simulator, the driver should decide when to downshift, not the game. When a shift is buffered, it’s really the game choosing when the shift happens instead of the driver.

What do you mean lol mashing the downshifts in GT was absolutely farcical

Nothing worse than seeing the quick guys bouncing off the limiter down to first then upshifting to third on corner exit

It wasn't fun or realistic and this is an objective improvement

I’m not defending mashing at all. I agree, it looked ridiculous. But input blocking isn’t the right fix. In a simulator a bad downshift should have real consequences, like rear instability, over revving, or wheel lock whatever would actually happen to the car.

Right now, GT7 doesn’t use physics to punish a bad shift. Instead, it just ignores the command until the game decides the RPM is safe. So the game, not the driver, controls when the shift happens.

So yes, the old behavior needed to be fixed. But swapping it for a hidden rule set as an automatic downshift isn’t real simulation. It just restricts control. That’s the difference I’m pointing out.

 

[effenberg]

AFAIK lots of cars have this downshift protection, also based on RPM. Even my A250 does that when its in manual mode. So the game is mimicking real life.

You can argue that for a skill/competitive scenario it would be better to remove the protection and let people suffer the consequences. But that's not GT.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

This shifting lockout is, for all practical purposes, as real world as it gets in the 21st century.

<----------that 2015 car there? When I go paddle shift mode, it simply ignores shift commands, up or down, when the parameters exceed the thresholds Chevrolet engineers decided would be damaging. I am certainly thankful for that, as those thresholds have been exceeded, more than once, and those commands I gave the car have been ignored when they were, saving me several thousand $s in drive line repairs. The only part of the current shifting function I find unreal, as described in this thread, is that "shift buffering" that appears the game software is capable of and will undoubtedly be exploited by someone(s) just as soon as they figure out how it can be used advantageously.

As has been said

I haven't tried it yet in manual with a clutch as yet, since my old G27 shifter seems to be dying a slow, ignominious, death, popping out of 3rd gear mostly, even under full throttle, so I hope the skip shift function still works when Logitech finally builds and releases a G-Pro class H-gate, @LOGI_Rich, when using full on manual mode with a clutch and non-sequential shifter. And yes, I have the G27 shifter connected to the G-Pro adapter, connected to the G-Pro wheel and pedals.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

AFAIK lots of cars have this downshift protection, also based on RPM. Even my A250 does that when its in manual mode. So the game is mimicking real life.

You can argue that for a skill/competitive scenario it would be better to remove the protection and let people suffer the consequences. But that's not GT.

You’re right that many modern road cars have downshift protection in manual mode, but that’s exactly my point. GT7 is meant to simulate performance cars on track, where the gearbox logic and ECU work very differently from an A Class or most regular cars.

In track focused cars like GT3 GT4, prototypes, or other race cars, you don’t get “shift denial.” Instead, if you mistime a downshift, you face real consequences like over-revving, instability, or losing traction exactly what a simulator should show. I understand that GT7 wants to protect players, but blocking the input takes away control from the driver.

And yes, GT has always focused on accessibility rather than strict simulation, which is fine. The problem is that this was a major change made partway through the game’s life, without clear communication, and it affects players who expect consistent mechanics.

So the point isn’t to remove protection for everyone.The main idea is that a simulator should handle bad inputs through physics, not by using hidden restrictions.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I’m not defending mashing at all. I agree, it looked ridiculous. But input blocking isn’t the right fix. In a simulator a bad downshift should have real consequences, like rear instability, over revving, or wheel lock whatever would actually happen to the car.

Right now, GT7 doesn’t use physics to punish a bad shift. Instead, it just ignores the command until the game decides the RPM is safe. So the game, not the driver, controls when the shift happens.

So yes, the old behavior needed to be fixed. But swapping it for a hidden rule set as an automatic downshift isn’t real simulation. It just restricts control. That’s the difference I’m pointing out.

What PD have implemented is realistic for lots of cars like GT3s which have downshift protection which are by far the most popular racing category in GT.

I agree Thats not realistic for all cars but tbh I am much more comfortable with PD implementing a blanket rule preventing the overrevving than trying to pick which cars it shouldn't apply to, what cars should have wheel locking, etc and then ensuring that wheel locking isn't similarly able to be exploited like the overrevving was.

For instance Remember that PD have disabled handbrake use in sport mode once the car is moving because it's advantageous to use it when it shouldn't be. Which is a reflection on their ability to solve physics problems for the range of cars that they have in the game.

So I'd much rather they did what have done now and then test a more comprehensive solution later than wait for them to implement your solution which honestly they may not be capable of anyway.

 

[effenberg]

...
So the point isn’t to remove protection for everyone.The main idea is that a simulator should handle bad inputs through physics, not by using hidden restrictions.

I think the issue here is that you think that GT is (or should be) a "sim" in the sense of "simulating real life behavior and physics".

But that is definitely not GT intent. At least not now.

GT is more like a game that provides a good driving experience, either for pleasure, entertainment or competitiveness. And to get there they use "sim elements and concepts", in a way, and depth, they see fit.

This is kinda like ABS and TCS in GT. Its far, far from simulate real-life physics and to be a sim in this sense. They would have to disable it for old cars (like shift protection), and they don't. Also they would have to implement different ABS and TCS behavior per car, and they don't, the algorithm is the same for all cars. Because ABS and TCS in GT is not about "simulate physics" but "simulate enough to reach a certain intent".

 

[AbbeBusoni]

This shifting lockout is, for all practical purposes, as real world as it gets in the 21st century.

<----------that 2015 car there? When I go paddle shift mode, it simply ignores shift commands, up or down, when the parameters exceed the thresholds Chevrolet engineers decided would be damaging. I am certainly thankful for that, as those thresholds have been exceeded, more than once, and those commands I gave the car have been ignored when they were, saving me several thousand $s in drive line repairs. The only part of the current shifting function I find unreal, as described in this thread, is that "shift buffering" that appears the game software is capable of and will undoubtedly be exploited by someone(s) just as soon as they figure out how it can be used advantageously.

As has been said
View attachment 1498888

I haven't tried it yet in manual with a clutch as yet, since my old G27 shifter seems to be dying a slow, ignominious, death, popping out of 3rd gear mostly, even under full throttle, so I hope the skip shift function still works when Logitech finally builds and releases a G-Pro class H-gate, @LOGI_Rich, when using full on manual mode with a clutch and non-sequential shifter. And yes, I have the G27 shifter connected to the G-Pro adapter, connected to the G-Pro wheel and pedals.

You’re right modern road cars, like your Corvette or an A Class, will ignore unsafe shift inputs to protect the drivetrain.
But in GT7, the game simulates race conditions with track focused cars and manual paddle control. Here, the driver is supposed to handle downshift timing, not the car. In real GT3, GT4, or other track cars, your command isn’t buffered and then auto shift when the RPM is right. That’s the unrealistic part.

The problem is the shift buffering. The car does the downshift later, instead of letting the driver do it. It’s fine to fix an old exploit, but making the game decide when to shift isn’t how most simulators or real race cars work.

 

[Famine]

In track focused cars like GT3 GT4, prototypes, or other race cars, you don’t get “shift denial.”

Oh yes you do. GT3 cars and LMP2/LMP1-on prototypes absolutely have a downshift protection system that prevents over-revving.

The problem is the shift buffering. The car does the downshift later, instead of letting the driver do it.

No, it doesn't. A downshift that would lead to inappropriate engine speeds is simply ignored, not delayed until an appropriate window.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

You’re right modern road cars, like your Corvette

Being pedantic, that car over there is not a Corvette.

But in GT7, the game simulates race conditions with track focused cars and manual paddle control. Here, the driver is supposed to handle downshift timing, not the car. In real GT3, GT4, or other track cars, your command isn’t buffered and then auto shift when the RPM is right. That’s the unrealistic part.

The problem is the shift buffering. The car does the downshift later, instead of letting the driver do it. It’s fine to fix an old exploit, but making the game decide when to shift isn’t how most simulators or real race cars work.

The only part of the current shifting function I find unreal, as described in this thread, is that "shift buffering" that appears the game software is capable of and will undoubtedly be exploited by someone(s) just as soon as they figure out how it can be used advantageously.

Agreed on the shift buffering part.
I would argue against your statement about GT7 being concentrated with track focused cars. While there is a good chunk of the road car list that could be considered track focused, I'm fairly certain the current car roster favors non track focused (excluding all GR.x, VGTs and some non-VGT or GR.x cars) by a healthy margin. @Famine could probably tell us for certain, since I'm not combing through 300+ cars to decide which are "track focused" and which aren't, not to mention, deciding what the qualifies as "track focused". Perhaps the author of GTPedia has already done such a study. If he were to state my impression is mistaken, I'd be happy to take his word on the subject.

 

[Famine]

I would argue against your statement about GT7 being concentrated with track focused cars. While there is a good chunk of the road car list that could be considered track focused, I'm fairly certain the current car roster favors non track focused (excluding all GR.x, VGTs and some non-VGT or GR.x cars) by a healthy margin. @Famine could probably tell us for certain, since I'm not combing through 300+ cars to decide which are "track focused" and which aren't, not to mention, deciding what the qualifies as "track focused". Perhaps the author of GTPedia has already done such a study. If he were to state my impression is mistaken, I'd be happy to take his word on the subject.

No, you're on the mark here.

GT Sport was, by some margin, the most race/track-focused car list in the history of Gran Turismo at launch (54 road cars from a 168-car list), but it was leaned further and further away from that with almost every update - by the time the car list had doubled, with another 168 cars added, it had reached 50:50.

While GT7 obviously builds off the end-of-life car list of Sport and is still in (I think; I checked around 1.54) second place and there's still a relatively high proportion of racing cars, it's getting closer to the highest race:road ratio old-school GT game (GT3) than to Sport. We've had 132 more cars in GT7's life and exactly 100 of them are road cars (plus six "Professionally Tuned").

 

[Voodoovaj]

I would be on board if it were consistent, but they didn't implement something consistent. I've grabbed a gear at a crawl and got nothing. It's probably a bug, but still annoying.

Maybe they could make it accurate to the year of car. Let me abuse something older, and baby the new stuff.

Or, at the very least, do the BASICS of giving me feed back of some sort so I'm not looking puzzled if my input is broken or not.

 

[Yard_Sale]

As others have pointed out, the way PD is handling the downshift exploit is the correct way - if throwing a modern blanket solution over the problem. In the end, it comes down to how much realism do we really want and above all, what is the base physics engine actually able to facilitate. If we’re going for full realism, then all downshifts regardless of manual or sequential gearboxes on any car prior to 2000’ (with the exception of the Chaparral 2J) would require a throttle blip at a minimum, and a heel-toe downshift if the player has a clutch enabled. People forget that wizardry like shift sensors that cut the ignition upon upshifts were cutting edge technology in the 90’s.

Been at work for a few days, so I haven’t been able to test drive this new tweak. Really looking forward to trying it out, as there is one car in particular with the GR.3 458, that I do some quick downshift-upshift-downshift sequences in the different phases of a turn in order to get the car to balance properly

 

[CodeRedR51]

Is this downshift lockout limited to Sport mode? Because in my normal offline playing I have yet to have any issues with downshifting.

 

[Lischynski]

What do you mean lol mashing the downshifts in GT was absolutely farcical

Nothing worse than seeing the quick guys bouncing off the limiter down to first then upshifting to third on corner exit

It wasn't fun or realistic and this is an objective improvement

Appropriate username!

 

[AbbeBusoni]

Oh yes you do. GT3 cars and LMP2/LMP1-on prototypes absolutely have a downshift protection system that prevents over-revving.

No, it doesn't. A downshift that would lead to inappropriate engine speeds is simply ignored, not delayed until an appropriate window.

You’re absolutely right that GT3s and prototypes have downshift protection. That part isn’t in question What they don’t do is save the command and then shift later for the driver. In a GT3, if a downshift would cause an over rev, the car just ignores the shift. Nothing happens until the driver tries again at the right RPM. The driver still controls the timing.

GT7 now works differently. It saves the input and shifts automatically when the game decides the revs are right. That’s what I’m pointing out in this case, the game, not the driver, controls the shift timing. The protection itself is realistic.

 

[daan]

In track focused cars like GT3 GT4, prototypes, or other race cars, you don’t get “shift denial.” Instead, if you mistime a downshift, you face real consequences like over-revving, instability, or losing traction exactly what a simulator should show. I understand that GT7 wants to protect players, but blocking the input takes away control from the driver.

Oh yes you do. GT3 cars and LMP2/LMP1-on prototypes absolutely have a downshift protection system that prevents over-revving.

You’re absolutely right that GT3s and prototypes have downshift protection. That part isn’t in question

It was in question earlier in the thread.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

It was in question earlier in the thread.

Good point. Earlier in the thread, people discussed whether GT3 cars have downshift protection. I want to be clear that I’m not arguing against that. GT3 cars and prototypes definitely protect against destructive over revving. My point is about how this protection actually works.

In a GT3 if you try an unsafe downshift, the car just ignores it. Nothing happens until the driver tries again at the right time. GT7 works differently. It holds the downshift and then does it automatically later. That’s what I’m focusing on, because it takes timing control away from the driver and gives it to the game. The protection is right, but the delayed auto-shift doesn’t match how real race cars work.

Is this downshift lockout limited to Sport mode? Because in my normal offline playing I have yet to have any issues with downshifting.

I’m not sure if the downshift lockout only affects Sport Mode. After the update I closed the game and haven’t played since, so I didn’t try it offline.This update was the last straw for me. I’ve spent over 800 hours on GT7, I even bought the Power Pack DLC, and really enjoyed much of the game. That’s why it’s hard to leave.

After this change, I have decided to switch to ACC instead. I’m leaving GT7 with some sadness because I want to keep enjoying it, but the updates have made me stop playing altogether.

View attachment 1498896



As others have pointed out, the way PD is handling the downshift exploit is the correct way - if throwing a modern blanket solution over the problem. In the end, it comes down to how much realism do we really want and above all, what is the base physics engine actually able to facilitate. If we’re going for full realism, then all downshifts regardless of manual or sequential gearboxes on any car prior to 2000’ (with the exception of the Chaparral 2J) would require a throttle blip at a minimum, and a heel-toe downshift if the player has a clutch enabled. People forget that wizardry like shift sensors that cut the ignition upon upshifts were cutting edge technology in the 90’s.

Been at work for a few days, so I haven’t been able to test drive this new tweak. Really looking forward to trying it out, as there is one car in particular with the GR.3 458, that I do some quick downshift-upshift-downshift sequences in the different phases of a turn in order to get the car to balance properly

You make good points about older gearbox designs, heel-toe techniques, throttle blipping, and the differences between road and race car technologies. There isn’t a single solution that works for every type of vehicle in GT7.

I’m not worried about over revving protection itself. As you said, stopping destructive over-revving is realistic and makes sense. My main issue is with the shift buffering in GT7, where the game stores a downshift command and then does it automatically. In real race cars, even with protection, the driver still controls when to shift. I think it’s fair to ask if the game’s physics are detailed enough to model every drivetrain correctly. But the timing automation feels like it takes control away from the driver instead of truly simulating a mechanical limit.

 

[daan]

Good point. Earlier in the thread, people discussed whether GT3 cars have downshift protection. I want to be clear that I’m not arguing against that. GT3 cars and prototypes definitely protect against destructive over revving. My point is about how this protection actually works.

In a GT3 if you try an unsafe downshift, the car just ignores it. Nothing happens until the driver tries again at the right time. GT7 works differently. It holds the downshift and then does it automatically later. That’s what I’m focusing on, because it takes timing control away from the driver and gives it to the game. The protection is right, but the delayed auto-shift doesn’t match how real race cars work.


I’m not sure if the downshift lockout only affects Sport Mode. After the update I closed the game and haven’t played since, so I didn’t try it offline.This update was the last straw for me. I’ve spent over 800 hours on GT7, I even bought the Power Pack DLC, and really enjoyed much of the game. That’s why it’s hard to leave.

After this change, I have decided to switch to ACC instead. I’m leaving GT7 with some sadness because I want to keep enjoying it, but the updates have made me stop playing altogether.

You explicitly said that GT3 cars don't have "shift denial". I quoted you saying that. And now you're stating that they do have it and that it wasn't in question. Your argument is all over the place.

Good luck with ACC as it has shift protection too.

And stop double and triple posting.