GT7 Update 1.66: Downshifting Concerns and Penalties.

[Lomic]

Earlier in the thread, people discussed whether GT3 cars have downshift protection. I want to be clear

Earlier in the thread YOU were saying that GT3 DON't have downshift protection, it does not look you want to be clear but instead shift the goalpost. Won't go far and well.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

You explicitly said that GT3 cars don't have "shift denial". I quoted you saying that. And now you're stating that they do have it and that it wasn't in question. Your argument is all over the place.

Good luck with ACC as it has shift protection too.

And stop double and triple posting.

Let me clarify, because the distinction I’m making seems to be getting lost.

GT3 cars do have downshift protection, and that has never been questioned. What I meant earlier is that GT3 cars do not save a shift to perform it later. Instead, they just deny the shift and let the driver decide when to try again. So yes, GT3s do have protection. What they do not have is GT7’s new feature that queues the shift and then performs it automatically. That is what I am focusing on.

I apologise for any confusion regarding the doubling of my posts. I am new to GT Planet and have simply been using the reply function to share my opinions.

 

[Famine]

This all feels like we're talking with a chatbot...

What they do not have is GT7’s new feature that queues the shift and then performs it automatically.

Can you show this happening, because I've tested it repeatedly and it doesn't happen. But then I already told you that.

GT3 cars do have downshift protection, and that has never been questioned.

You explicitly stated the exact opposite:

In track focused cars like GT3 GT4, prototypes, or other race cars, you don’t get “shift denial.” Instead, if you mistime a downshift, you face real consequences like over-revving, instability, or losing traction exactly what a simulator should show.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

From what I've read in this thread, GT7 only "buffers" the shift command if the paddle is held back. I have not experienced this behavior myself. I have experienced the shift denial and had to re-initiate the command with another paddle actuation to get the gear down function to work. You still can snap downshift, you just have to have the car down to the necessary speed to avoid the over-rev lock out.

If you hold the shift down button down before it lets you shift down, it'll shift down automatically for that one gear as soon as the threshold is met.

Odd.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

Earlier in the thread YOU were saying that GT3 DON't have downshift protection, it does not look you want to be clear but instead shift the goalpost. Won't go far and well.

Let me clear this up once and for all, because the wording earlier clearly caused some confusion. I was talking about how GT3 cars don’t save a shift and do it later. They still have downshift protection and will prevent over-revving.
Here’s the difference I mean:
• Real GT3 = unsafe downshift is ignored, driver tries again
• GT7 = unsafe downshift is queued, game shifts later automatically
That’s the distinction I’m making. There’s no goalpost shifting, it is just a clarification of what I meant.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Let me clear this up once and for all, because the wording earlier clearly caused some confusion. I was talking about how GT3 cars don’t save a shift and do it later. They still have downshift protection and will prevent over-revving.
Here’s the difference I mean:
• Real GT3 = unsafe downshift is ignored, driver tries again
• GT7 = unsafe downshift is queued, game shifts later automatically
That’s the distinction I’m making. There’s no goalpost shifting, it is just a clarification of what I meant.

Stop holding the button down/paddle back. The queue doesn't happen unless you're holding the command input.

 

[Serkan35]

I wasted 2 hours of my life opening my dualshock 4 in a try to clean the rubber under the buttons because I thought square button didn't respond correctly.
I was thinking about buying another controller too.
Then I realized that square button works properly and missed downshifts happens because of another reason. So I googled it and here I am feeling stupid that I almost broke my ds4 when the problem was in the 1.66 update.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I waste 2 hours of my life opening my dualshock 4 in a try to clean the rubber under the buttons because I thought square button didn't respond correctly.
I was thinking about buying another controller too.
Then I realized that square button works properly and missed downshifts happens because of another reason. So I googled it and here I am feeling stupid that I almost broke my ds4 when the problem was in the 1.66 update.

I'll live with it, but give me some feedback. I'm not arguing against the feature, because I know from driving a manual box IRL, if the engine is spinning TOO fast, you (often) can't force the shifter into position. JUST GIVE ME FEEBACK so it doesn't feel broken (oh, and actually fix it so it doesn't randomly miss downshifts when the absolutely should happen.

 

[Serkan35]

I'll live with it, but give me some feedback. I'm not arguing against the feature, because I know from driving a manual box IRL, if the engine is spinning TOO fast, you (often) can't force the shifter into position. JUST GIVE ME FEEBACK so it doesn't feel broken (oh, and actually fix it so it doesn't randomly miss downshifts when the absolutely should happen.

The new feature undoubtedly makes more sense than downshifting on excessive rev limiter that probably would ruin an engine irl. It is just difficult and annoying to learn new way of downshifting after so much time playing the game

 

[M Stark]

Downshift protection is better than nothing but it’s a lazy solution. Mechanical damage would’ve been the right thing to do. Here’s hope for GT8 to have that.

Having said that, I wouldn’t want to go back to not having any downshift protection because that was legitimately lame.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

Downshift protection is better than nothing but it’s a lazy solution. Mechanical damage would’ve been the right thing to do. Here’s hope for GT8 to have that.

Having said that, I wouldn’t want to go back to not having any downshift protection because that was legitimately lame.

Agreed. Some protection is better than nothing. Still, using a physics based consequence would make it feel more like a true simulation. ACC has gearshift protection as well, but it's quite subtle and activates in third and obviously in second gear. Maybe GT8 will improve on this. Fingers crossed!

I wasted 2 hours of my life opening my dualshock 4 in a try to clean the rubber under the buttons because I thought square button didn't respond correctly.
I was thinking about buying another controller too.
Then I realized that square button works properly and missed downshifts happens because of another reason. So I googled it and here I am feeling stupid that I almost broke my ds4 when the problem was in the 1.66 update.

That really shows why undocumented changes are a problem. When the main input behavior changes without any notice, it’s easy to think your hardware is broken. You’re definitely not alone in thinking that after 1.66.

 

[JDMKING13]

The problem with wanted mechanical damage is that GT would have to have the whole game locked in at HEAVY damage. This is for License test, missions, offline races, TT, etc. In my league we only play with heavy damage on so I’m with it, however I’m 1 person and the select few. Many people don’t like that concept in GT or hardcore simulation, look how people are acting because you can’t unrealistically shift down anymore.

This new feature doesn’t cause me any problems when it comes to my driving. I didn’t even know what it was until I saw videos of people doing that disgusting downshift to exploit. If people are upset about this, imagine if PD made it where your motor blew up and your race was instantly over.

 

[AbbeBusoni]

This all feels like we're talking with a chatbot...

Can you show this happening, because I've tested it repeatedly and it doesn't happen. But then I already told you that.

You explicitly stated the exact opposite:

If it seems that way, it's not intentional. I’ll try to clarify once again and keep it grounded to the best of my knowledge. I can’t demonstrate intentional queued shift behaviour, so I’ll retract that wording. The confirmed behaviour is downshift denial at high RPM, which changes the feel and timing compared to before 1.66. That change in driver input and control is the core of my argument.

 

[Famine]

That really shows why undocumented changes are a problem. When the main input behavior changes without any notice, it’s easy to think your hardware is broken.

It's literally a documented change. It's documented right there in the patch notes as the very first item. We put it in our article as the very first thing and covered two paragraphs with it...

Improvements and Adjustments
1. Physics Simulation Model
- Adjusted the behaviour of the shift down operation when 'Gear Shift: Manual' is enabled in 'Assist Settings' wherein the input will be ignored when trying to shift gear down at extremely high rpm/speed;

Although there are only four items in the patch notes, there’s one that’s particularly interesting and has global effects. Listed under “physics simulation model”, the unassuming line states that players who opt to shift gears manually will have a downshift input ignored if it’s at “extremely high” engine speed.

This is a technique often used in some time trial events as — depending on the vehicle used — rapidly shuffling down the ‘box while the engine screams can assist with deceleration, even though it sounds absolutely awful. We’ve run a quick couple of tests and, while you can still over-rev the engine a little, on paddles at least it does seem to curb the ability to repeatedly downshift.

If it seems that way, it's not intentional. I’ll try to clarify once again and keep it grounded to the best of my knowledge.

Saying the exact opposite of something you said, while denying you ever said it (despite being quoted saying it by two different members of staff) is not a clarification.

You said GT3 cars (among others about which you said the same, incorrect thing) don't have "shift denial" and instead "if you mistime a downshift, you face real consequences like over-revving". They do indeed have software downshift protection that prevents "real consequences like over-revving".

The confirmed behaviour is downshift denial at high RPM, which changes the feel and timing compared to before 1.66.

Yes. This is a documented change.

That change in driver input and control is the core of my argument.

Really?

Originally it was that GT3 cars (and others) now don't behave like real ones because of this downshift-prevention change - which the real ones actually do have:

In track focused cars like GT3 GT4, prototypes, or other race cars, you don’t get “shift denial.” Instead, if you mistime a downshift, you face real consequences like over-revving, instability, or losing traction exactly what a simulator should show. I understand that GT7 wants to protect players, but blocking the input takes away control from the driver.

Then it was that the downshift is now delayed and happens later - even though it doesn't:

What they don’t do is save the command and then shift later for the driver. In a GT3, if a downshift would cause an over rev, the car just ignores the shift. Nothing happens until the driver tries again at the right RPM. The driver still controls the timing.

GT7 now works differently. It saves the input and shifts automatically when the game decides the revs are right. That’s what I’m pointing out in this case, the game, not the driver, controls the shift timing.

My main issue is with the shift buffering in GT7, where the game stores a downshift command and then does it automatically.

What I meant earlier is that GT3 cars do not save a shift to perform it later. Instead, they just deny the shift and let the driver decide when to try again. So yes, GT3s do have protection. What they do not have is GT7’s new feature that queues the shift and then performs it automatically. That is what I am focusing on.

Here’s the difference I mean:
• Real GT3 = unsafe downshift is ignored, driver tries again
• GT7 = unsafe downshift is queued, game shifts later automatically
That’s the distinction I’m making.

Now it's... that the driver control has changed by... a documented change of how the driver controls the car?

I wonder what it'll be next.

And this still all reads like you're putting these answers into a chatbot and pasting the response. The classic incorrect chatbot answer, corrected by the user, followed by the chatbot's "I'm sorry, you're correct that [correction]. Let me clarify..." and more incorrect stuff spews out.

 

[The Crock]

I haven't missed a single downshift in the recent update. But I know how a gearbox works. It's incredible how this update is exposing how little the people who play GT7 understand about, you know, cars.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I’m not sure if the downshift lockout only affects Sport Mode. After the update I closed the game and haven’t played since, so I didn’t try it offline.This update was the last straw for me. I’ve spent over 800 hours on GT7, I even bought the Power Pack DLC, and really enjoyed much of the game. That’s why it’s hard to leave.

After this change, I have decided to switch to ACC instead. I’m leaving GT7 with some sadness because I want to keep enjoying it, but the updates have made me stop playing altogether.

I did 2, hour long races at Interlagos last night using my GT4 spec Nissan Z against a Gr.4 field and didn't notice any issues with downshifting. Maybe because it's technically a road car and not a race car, or maybe I just don't downshift aggressive enough to notice it. The update has not effected me at all.

 

[Gerarghini]

On cars that I'm using the paddle shifters on, I did find that I was occasionally (without really realizing) downshifting too early for the engine speed and getting my input ignored, so I had to be a little more mindful on my shift points. With the H-pattern, I never had the issue.

 

[jrbabbitt]

I want PD to reverse the downshift protection only if that they can program the consequences of grenading your engine, stopping your race, and forcing you to buy another engine for that car before it can be used for racing.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Did a quick 30 mile rip with my trusty 458 GT3 just now, to see how the update felt. Zero changes needed for me. It’s almost like PD has said we the the 458 since GTS - “Hey!!! You guys want realism right? Well here you go!!”. Because anyone who drives the Ferrari 458 knows that any abnormal weight shifts from improper braking or downshifting inputs, will immediately send you spinning into a wall. It’s almost as if the 25,000 miles I’ve spent in that car has prepared me for the PD ULTIMATE SPAM SHIFTING NERF!


If anything, this might encourage me to start getting back into regular sport mode races again. It was always frustrating watching qualifying TT replays, and seeing all the top players spam-shifting into a power slide for any corner that required even moderate braking.

On another note, this new FFB profile that PD implemented, has continued to impress me. Steering load up through a corner is much more nuanced and progressive, with the added benefit of being able to catch slides easier and in a much more natural way. Every change of surface and slight elevation change is felt, and the understeer-induced chatter that they implemented a couple updates ago (presumably to help out pad players) seems to have been nerfed a bit, with the return of the weightlessness of the wheel you feel irl when experiencing understeer.
Good stuff all around!