GTP Cool Wall: 1984-1986 Ford Mustang SVO

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1984-1986 Ford Mustang SVO


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The SVO managed to match or best the handling test numbers obtained by the 944 and the 308, two of the best handling cars of the day. Great for the time, not so good by today's standards.

Handling =/= grip ;)
 
Relevant bit bolded. Cracker's point is that having the highest g-force rating or slalom time doesn't necessarily equate to best "handling", it just means it has good grip.

"Handling" is a much more organic concept comprising stuff like body control, balance and adjustability, steering feel and response etc. All "numbers" are is a way of displaying things measured with a stopwatch. Good numbers can be achieved by putting sticky tires on a crap car. Good handling cannot.

Though feel free to disregard if Road & Track rates things like steering feel with a numeric system for some reason.

The SVO was able to match or exceed the skidpad and slalom numbers of two of the best handling cars at the time. It couldn't do that if it handled like crap.

Maybe the Ferrari 308 and Porsche 944 handled bad and it was masked by sticky tires?

Handling =/= grip ;)

Skidpad tests more than grip, it also tests balance. ;)

Slalom tests agility and ability to change direction.
 
In my personal dictionary, there is a picture of the Fox-Body Mustang right next the the word Uncool.
 
The SVO was able to match or exceed the skidpad and slalom numbers of two of the best handling cars at the time. It couldn't do that if it handled like crap.

Like Stotty said above, 'grip' and 'handling' are not the same thing. Wide tyres and stiff suspension will give you impressive skidpad and slalom figures, but it say nothing about how a car actually 'handles'
 
Like Stotty said above, 'grip' and 'handling' are not the same thing. Wide tyres and stiff suspension will give you impressive skidpad and slalom figures, but it say nothing about how a car actually 'handles'

Like I said above, skidpad and slalom test more than just grip.

Also, the suspension was changed a little, but the tires on the SVO were the same size as the GT of the day.
 
The SVO was able to match or exceed the skidpad and slalom numbers of two of the best handling cars at the time. It couldn't do that if it handled like crap.
It could, actually. It could do exactly that by having equal or greater grip than they do. Grip (again) is not synonymous with handling.
Maybe the Ferrari 308 and Porsche 944 handled bad and it was masked by sticky tires?
Only both those cars were rated highly in their day for actual handling characteristics (particularly the Porsche).

Mustangs, traditionally, have not been great handlers as standard. I'm not saying the SVO wasn't (I've not driven one, nor have I driven a 308 or 944 to compare it with), but quoting "good numbers" does not mean it was a good handling car. It just means it was one that happened to be good in measurable disciplines that tend to place grip over handling.
Skidpad tests more than grip, it also tests balance. ;)
Not really. It's more a test of the driver's ability to hold the car on a point just before it oversteers or understeers. That requires balance, but like handling as a whole, balance is a much broader concept than holding a car at a constant throttle to make it return good skidpad numbers. If the driver could say, find that point instantaneously in a turn on the road, or on a race track, then that'd be good balance. Slowly getting up to it and holding the car there is just practice.
Slalom tests agility and ability to change direction.
Indeed. But an agile car won't necessarily return good slalom figures if it doesn't first have good grip. Rather depends how tight the slalom is too - provided the tires stick there's little reason a dodgy-handling car couldn't be muscled through a slalom at the same speed a better-handling car could flow through with little effort.

To say you have this article presumably in your possession, you've not really provided much detail into this "handling" thing. Is the test just a bunch of numbers or are there actually testers' notes on how the cars actually handle?
 
Like I said above, skidpad and slalom test more than just grip.

Also, the suspension was changed a little, but the tires on the SVO were the same size as the GT of the day.

But they only provide raw numbers, which say nothing about 'feel' or any of the other traits that testers use to describe the quality of handling.
 
Also, the suspension was changed a little, but the tires on the SVO were the same size as the GT of the day.

widht-size maybe, but the tires it came with were specially developed for the car by Good Year if I remember correctly, and were shod on those specific, cool 16-inch wheels. They were far better tires than the Gt ever came with.

For the record, I can tell you that the car does corner well and it doesn't "handle like crap" like some people put it here. The thing felt quite planted in hard cornering and had plenty of grip. Yeah it might not be stellar by today's standards but it IS miles and miles better than a normal Fox Rustang. This of course is all seat-of-the-pants feel from me, so take that as you will lol.
 
Seriously uncool.
I don't know how people can act like this is rare or unknown.
If it's rare it's because there aren't many of them actually running any more (but there are and they aren't rare).
If it's unknown it's because you were born in one of the decades following this car's production.

Basically...

vanilla-ice2-300x292.jpg


And yes, they are about equally uncool.
 
For the record, I can tell you that the car does corner well and it doesn't "handle like crap" like some people put it here. The thing felt quite planted in hard cornering and had plenty of grip. Yeah it might not be stellar by today's standards but it IS miles and miles better than a normal Fox Rustang. This of course is all seat-of-the-pants feel from me, so take that as you will lol.

;) Since it was i who uttered those words. I'd just like to point out that i wasn't saying that the Mustang in question does handle like crap. I was just pointing out that good slalom/skidpan figures don't mean a car necessarily handles like a dream.
 
RE Cool because rare: that's actually another thing wrong with it. It's not rare enough to achieve that "crown jewel of a billion-dollar collection" status, not by a long shot. But it's still uncommon enough that people looking for a car to modify and drive hard either won't bother to pay the asking prices or will have too much respect to cut one up and put in the V8 that most racers probably want. So guess who that leaves?

Yep, the amateur concours crowd. The people so obsessed with exact numbers-matching parts that you could get rich convincing them numbers-matching air for tires is actually a thing. They are the people who make car guys uncool.

When you add in the fact that it's already not particularly cool by reason of reason of trying to appear more European (apparently Ford themselves didn't realize being American was embedded in the Mustang's essence by that point), you get something no higher than meh.
 
Solid cool, for Ford having the brains to explore (comparatively) unknown territory. These things are deservedly sought after now, and as @UrieHusky mentioned, are the American equivalent of a 240SX; an excellent way to explore the friction circle 👍
 
Which is, of course, a perfectly valid metric for describing handling :)

Can't have it both ways.
One guy says the numbers and you get mad about wanting notes (opinions) and another mentions his opinion only to be chastised for not have numeric values.

I think we can all agree that handling is just about the most subjective part of a car's performance evaluation.
 

5.0 =/= SVO. And Vanilla Ice is all about the 5.0.

That it isn't a 5.0 is why the SVO squeaks into cool territory. The only "Mustang" cooler is the 350Hertz.


Like I said above, skidpad and slalom test more than just grip.

Also, the suspension was changed a little, but the tires on the SVO were the same size as the GT of the day.

The skidpad is all about grip. The slalom is partially about consistency and partially about how narrow a car is. A first-generation Honda Fit slaloms as quickly on US-spec high-speed slaloms as a Corvette, despite being more prone to understeer at the limit.

Both tests tell you something about the limits of a car in those specific situations, but they don't tell you how a car actually drives.

Or how cool it is, for that matter.
 
It could, actually. It could do exactly that by having equal or greater grip than they do. Grip (again) is not synonymous with handling.

And again, slalom and skidpad test more than grip.

Only both those cars were rated highly in their day for actual handling characteristics (particularly the Porsche).

Same with the SVO.

Mustangs, traditionally, have not been great handlers as standard. I'm not saying the SVO wasn't (I've not driven one, nor have I driven a 308 or 944 to compare it with), but quoting "good numbers" does not mean it was a good handling car. It just means it was one that happened to be good in measurable disciplines that tend to place grip over handling.

This was not traditional Mustang. The SVO was often referred to as the anti-Mustang. Ford built it for handling, not the drag strip.

Not really. It's more a test of the driver's ability to hold the car on a point just before it oversteers or understeers. That requires balance, but like handling as a whole, balance is a much broader concept than holding a car at a constant throttle to make it return good skidpad numbers. If the driver could say, find that point instantaneously in a turn on the road, or on a race track, then that'd be good balance. Slowly getting up to it and holding the car there is just practice.

It's a test of how long the car can stay in the skidpad circle. Poorly balanced/poorly set up cars will either spin out or understeer out of the circle.

Indeed. But an agile car won't necessarily return good slalom figures if it doesn't first have good grip. Rather depends how tight the slalom is too - provided the tires stick there's little reason a dodgy-handling car couldn't be muscled through a slalom at the same speed a better-handling car could flow through with little effort.

Can't get good slalom & skidpad figures on sticky tires alone. Not without a good set up car to start with.

By that logic, I can mount a set of slicks on my Ford Escape and run rings around a Lotus Elise.

To say you have this article presumably in your possession, you've not really provided much detail into this "handling" thing. Is the test just a bunch of numbers or are there actually testers' notes on how the cars actually handle?

It's not the actual R&T article. It's a book of cars that included parts of the R&T review in the SVO section.

But they only provide raw numbers, which say nothing about 'feel' or any of the other traits that testers use to describe the quality of handling.

The book I have only provides the numbers, not the "feelings".

widht-size maybe, but the tires it came with were specially developed for the car by Good Year if I remember correctly, and were shod on those specific, cool 16-inch wheels. They were far better tires than the Gt ever came with.

Only in '84 did th SVO come with Goodyear NCT tires. Quickly switched to Goodyear Gatorbacks, same as the GT.
 
It's a test of how long the car can stay in the skidpad circle. Poorly balanced/poorly set up cars will either spin out or understeer out of the circle.

It really proves nothing more than a cars ability to constantly go round in a tight circle. Doesn't mean much in the real world. Unless you do a lot of trackdays at Bristol MS ;)
 
It really proves nothing more than a cars ability to constantly go round in a tight circle. Doesn't mean much in the real world. Unless you do a lot of trackdays at Bristol MS ;)

It's a test of lateral acceleration, maximum cornering ability.

Means quite a bit in the real world. A well balanced car (neutral handling) will stay in the circle longer and post a higher number. As opposed to an oversteering car which will spin out at the cornering limit, or an understeering car which will plow outside the circle without registering a good number.
 
5.0 =/= SVO. And Vanilla Ice is all about the 5.0.

That it isn't a 5.0 is why the SVO squeaks into cool territory. The only "Mustang" cooler is the 350Hertz.

And here is the problem... Not that the 5.0 is a SVO or anything like that (cause I know it's not)... It's about using the word cool. There is no such thing as a cool Fox body IMO.

No matter the trim, the engine, suspension, reviews, style, color... Regardless of any possible option, I have never liked the Fox Mustangs and never thought they were cool.

Here in the south a Mustang is typically driven by teenage punk boys or skanky redneck girls.
 
Cool. Seemed like a good idea, but I can imagine why it didn't last too long.

The V8 made 210hp. :lol:
The V8 had the torque advantage, and the four cylinder engine wasn't all that much lighter than the V8.



Anywho, cool I guess but have never been a huge fan. I'd say meh simply because I hate the wheels and the double spoiler, but the handling package as well thought out for the time. The motor made ok power. Bumped to cool because I've seen exactly 1 my entire life.
 
Also dig the fact that you couldn't get this car with anything less than a 5 speed manual. No automatics.
 
The V8 had the torque advantage, and the four cylinder engine wasn't all that much lighter than the V8.
I know, but it was still pretty impressive compared to the V8....


...until something breaks...
 
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