GTP Cool Wall: 2006-2011 Honda Civic Si

[Tornado]

I'm just pointing out that the claim, "FF's are better in snow than FR's", doesn't mean much because 4WD is better in snow than both of them. A Civic Si being better in snow than a Charger is irrelevant because if anyone really cared about performance in snow they'd want an Impreza.

That is, unless they wanted something that was still substantially better in the snow than a typical RWD car, but without the drawbacks that come from having a 4WD car.

 

[Wolfe]

For winter driving I'll take a RWD car with appropriate tires and a manual transmission over any FWD. Understeer is logically safest, but for my purposes I feel more comfortable with the extra maneuverability of power oversteer. A FWD car (especially on all-seasons) feels alarmingly helpless by comparison.

Beyond that, 2WD is 2WD, and I'm quite happy with my wagon, which balances the scales against a Toyobaru with one occupant and gets 30mpg. Not that it's the norm for AWD/4WD cars, nor can I dispute having four CV joints/etc. to look after!

 

[JMoney]

I feel safer in a RWD knowing that if the car starts to slide, I have a chance of correcting it and not crashing. A FWD, though less likely to slide in the first place, cannot be corrected nearly as easily.

I've always wandered what a mid-engined FWD would be like, but nobody as far as I know has built one because it would make such little sense. I'll have to find out for myself when I win the lottery.

 

[Kent]

I feel safer in a RWD knowing that if the car starts to slide, I have a chance of correcting it and not crashing. A FWD, though less likely to slide in the first place, cannot be corrected nearly as easily.

I've always wandered what a mid-engined FWD would be like, but nobody as far as I know has built one because it would make such little sense. I'll have to find out for myself when I win the lottery.

I don't think that's true.
Pretty sure it's not. When a FWD starts to slide it's not swinging the weight of the car around on itself and so all that needs to be done is let the friction or brakes slow the car enough to catch grip again. With RWD you have to wait for the same conditions but also wait on the momentum of the rear-end's weight to stop rotating.


Regardless of any of that, the SI is a great little car to have as a daily commuter. The fuel economy and incredible engine make it as fun as it is sensible.

 

[Jet Badger]

I feel safer in a RWD knowing that if the car starts to slide, I have a chance of correcting it and not crashing. A FWD, though less likely to slide in the first place, cannot be corrected nearly as easily.

I've always wandered what a mid-engined FWD would be like, but nobody as far as I know has built one because it would make such little sense. I'll have to find out for myself when I win the lottery.

Ugh... Have you ever driven a FWD on snow?

 

[Wolfe]

A FWD, though less likely to slide in the first place, cannot be corrected nearly as easily.

But that's the easy part. Hold the steering straight and apply power -- the front end will line up with the direction you're moving.

My point wasn't that FWD is totally bad -- I'd certainly rather be in a FWD sedan instead of a torquey slushbox Mustang on the wrong kind of tires. I just don't think RWD gets enough credit. For snow driving, tires (and also weight) matter more than where the drivewheels are located.

 

[niky]

Well, yes, rear drive isn't totally helpless in slippery conditions... but there's something to be said about keeping your foot in it completely while driving sideways down a slick road.

 

[Dagger311]

I've never been out in the snow, but back when Atlanta had just a few inches of snow, my Dads' Ranger couldn't even move in 1.5 inches. When it got that high, he had to walk.

He also didn't have snow tires, or much experience in those conditions. I'm sure a rally driver with snow tires could've handled it better .

His Rogue doesn't even have snow tires, and he says he has no trouble with it in the snow. It's fwd, and If I'm not mistaken, I think the model he has can go into 4wd.

 

[niky]

Rear-drive pick-ups have a very specific problem. That being: there's almost no weight over the drive wheels with an empty bed. Which is why it's so ridiculously easy to light the tires up on a pick-up... and why pick-ups usually get blown away by 4x4 SUVs in a tug-of-war.

A Miata doesn't have that issue. With a 50:50 weight distribution, it has more bite in low traction conditions than a rear-drive pick-up.

A Porsche 911, on the other hand, has a whole lot of weight over the drive wheels... which means it's got terrific traction in the snow.

Until it gets too deep, that is.

 

[Dennisch]

I've driven a 911 in the snow, and it had winter tires, the amount of control was almost unreal. Same goes for a Beetle, that was just hilarious.

 

[Bopop4]

I feel safer in a RWD knowing that if the car starts to slide, I have a chance of correcting it and not crashing. A FWD, though less likely to slide in the first place, cannot be corrected nearly as easily.

I've always wandered what a mid-engined FWD would be like, but nobody as far as I know has built one because it would make such little sense. I'll have to find out for myself when I win the lottery.

What.

Fwds are easy to correct in a slide.
If you start sliding in the snow and pin it and counter, you can recover a slide that would be impossible to save in a rwd.

 

[Zenith]

Cost.

Cost is seriously underrated.

Maybe the Civic would be more desirable if it had more power and sent it to different wheels, but that would mean that it would cost more and this is a Civic.

Yes I could get an Impreza if I wanted great snow performance, but maybe I want to spend my money on a different car while still having decent snow-driving performance for the few times I need to drive my car in the snow.

 

[Xilor]

What.

Fwds are easy to correct in a slide.
If you start sliding in the snow and pin it and counter, you can recover a slide that would be impossible to save in a rwd.

^Yep

Back when I had a Mazda 3, I would drive it like an absolute maniac in the snow. The combination of Mazda's precise steering, good weight distribution and FWD made it extremely easy and fun to drive on slippery roads.

 

[Joey D]

FWD works fine in the snow, reading some of these comments you'd think FWD means you're going to go sliding out of control and die a horrible death.

I've never been out in the snow, but back when Atlanta had just a few inches of snow, my Dads' Ranger couldn't even move in 1.5 inches. When it got that high, he had to walk.

He also didn't have snow tires, or much experience in those conditions. I'm sure a rally driver with snow tires could've handled it better .

Your dad is a horrible driver if he can't drive a truck in a little over an inch of snow. You don't need snow tires for that little bit of snow, even crappy all-seasons would get you through that.

 

[Dagger311]

FWD works fine in the snow, reading some of these comments you'd think FWD means you're going to go sliding out of control and die a horrible death.



You're dad is a horrible driver if he can't drive a truck in a little over an inch of snow. You don't need snow tires for that little bit of snow, even crappy all-seasons would get you through that.

It's also a crappy truck. His boss owns a small business, and can't afford to outfit him with a good one. It's broke down three times now. The engine has an ungodly amount of miles on it( I'll check the number this weekend, I'm going out with him to work).

It was also probably closer to two inches, I don't know what it was like in downtown.

 

[PeterJB]

All I can think of with this car is massive understeer, and my DS3 shaking like made when accelerating, braking and going round corners. Uncool.

 

[Kent]

All I can think of with this car is massive understeer, and my DS3 shaking like made when accelerating, braking and going round corners. Uncool.

You realize this is about the real car right?
Not the car in GT6.
Just making sure since you say massive understeer and a shaking DS3.

Btw, in real life it handles pretty well imho.

 

[Azuremen]

That is, unless they wanted something that was still substantially better in the snow than a typical RWD car, but without the drawbacks that come from having a 4WD car.

Eh, I've driven RWD in the snow for years now, and it really isn't the death trap people make it out to be. a RWD car with snow tires feels about a hundred times better than a FWD or AWD with all seasons, and even on equal tires it isn't a trick to keep things in line with RWD.

I feel safer in a RWD knowing that if the car starts to slide, I have a chance of correcting it and not crashing. A FWD, though less likely to slide in the first place, cannot be corrected nearly as easily.

I've always wandered what a mid-engined FWD would be like, but nobody as far as I know has built one because it would make such little sense. I'll have to find out for myself when I win the lottery.

You've clearly never driven FWD on snow before, it is about the most idiot proof thing to fix - apply gas, point tires direction you want to go, profit.

And the 1990's Lotus Elan is about the closest thing to a mid-engine, front wheel drive car ever built. And apparently handles amazingly.

As for the Civic Si, it is just a meh for me. Decently fun and zippy car but lacking much soul by this generation.

 

[JMoney]

You realize this is about the real car right?
Not the car in GT6.
Just making sure since you say massive understeer and a shaking DS3.

Btw, in real life it handles pretty well imho.

I thought he was referring to a Citroen DS3

 

[McLaren]

I don't think that's true.
Pretty sure it's not. When a FWD starts to slide it's not swinging the weight of the car around on itself and so all that needs to be done is let the friction or brakes slow the car enough to catch grip again. With RWD you have to wait for the same conditions but also wait on the momentum of the rear-end's weight to stop rotating.

Ugh... Have you ever driven a FWD on snow?

But that's the easy part. Hold the steering straight and apply power -- the front end will line up with the direction you're moving.

My point wasn't that FWD is totally bad -- I'd certainly rather be in a FWD sedan instead of a torquey slushbox Mustang on the wrong kind of tires. I just don't think RWD gets enough credit. For snow driving, tires (and also weight) matter more than where the drivewheels are located.

What.

Fwds are easy to correct in a slide.
If you start sliding in the snow and pin it and counter, you can recover a slide that would be impossible to save in a rwd.

You've clearly never driven FWD on snow before, it is about the most idiot proof thing to fix - apply gas, point tires direction you want to go, profit.

And the 1990's Lotus Elan is about the closest thing to a mid-engine, front wheel drive car ever built. And apparently handles amazingly.

As for the Civic Si, it is just a meh for me. Decently fun and zippy car but lacking much soul by this generation.

Holy crap, that moment when everyone exposes you for not knowing better.

 

[homeforsummer]

A Miata doesn't have that issue. With a 50:50 weight distribution, it has more bite in low traction conditions than a rear-drive pick-up.

Mine was surprisingly not-crap in the snow. Okay, I expect it'd struggle with a foot of it on the ground, but on enough of a covering to turn the roads white it was fine once you got moving.

And that was on Toyo Proxes 4s, which I suppose are all-seasons. Was nice having something so adjustable. On snow tires it would have been a hoot. Arguably, the MX-5 was better than the front-drive Panda I had afterwards, but the Fiat did have amusing lift-off oversteer in the snow. Kinda looking forward to trying out the Honda - light, with narrow tires. Though the weight bias is a little more rearwards than many FWD cars.

 

[niky]

The Insight should be fun. Better yet as it's a manual.

First time I ever drove in deep mud, it was in a Mazda 626. About negative two inches of ground clearance and 17" wheels on summer tires. The rooster tails as I dug myself out of a pit (seesawing the whole time) were gorgeous.

Did want to take the Ford EcoSport:

...off-road when we had it last week. Will get it again, though... so maybe there's a chance there somewhere.