GTP Cool Wall: 2007-2010 Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione

[OriginalCheezIt]

My position:

Take any car, most feasibly a sports car.

• If it is only available with a manual, it is either considered
  • too "hardcore" for the general population (i.e. Audi TT RS)
  • a product of the industrial revolution (i.e. last gen Shelby GT500)

• If it is only available with an automatic, then it is accused of
  • not fulfilling the desires of the enthusiast population (i.e. Alfa 8C)
  • being a girl's/pansy's car (couldn't find a good example here, but we've all heard it before)

To me, a car being offered with only a manual is more uncool than being offered with only an automatic. To borrow from my prom tuxedo shopping experience and research, there's a reason that "black tie" events have essentially replaced "white tie" events.

Spoiler: This

Spoiler: Is cooler and more practical than this

Sorry for the weird tangent, but I think that's pretty accurate. Automatic really is the way to the future. However, options are always welcome. Hell, I'm even considering going white tie for prom. So manuals still have a place, but it's no longer "the" place.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren -- I never said the 8C wouldn't be any fun to drive. You're reading too much into when I said automated transmissions sacrifice pleasure for other things. They give up a piece of the puzzle; it doesn't throw the whole experience out. The 8C is still a 444hp RWD sportscar.

Go back to what you said.

sacrificing pleasure (to some) in a car that is otherwise clearly built for pleasure.

How would you know it does this without ever driving it? You're stating your opinion as a fact with zero experience.

I also said this:

Again, how would you know? Nothing I've ever read about the car would have changed if it went the other way yet here's you having never driven trying to pass off as a fact that the omission is a glaring principle. For all you know, you could drive it & not think twice about the manual (see 991 GT3 reviews) as long as you leave your close minded agenda outside.

I've driven fast cars with paddle shifters, but I don't need to drive any particular car to understand what a semi-automatic transmission means in terms of the driving experience. The difference it makes is obvious: you change gears by pulling a paddle/lever. That's not as enjoyable as moving an H-pattern shifter through the gears and operating a clutch pedal. It's cut-and-dried.

Nope. Transmissions are not built the same, they do not act the same. Try actually driving some of them. A great DCT gearbox is miles more interesting than the manual in a Civic.

 

[Wolfe]

You're stating your opinion as a fact with zero experience...

...Nothing I've ever read about the car would have changed if it went the other way yet here's you having never driven trying to pass off as a fact that the omission is a glaring principle.

What kind of fact are you talking about? It's a fact that I, myself, would be happier with a manual transmission. Even without having driven an 8C, I can say this with confidence because of what the manual transmission means to me (see below).

For all you know, you could drive it & not think twice about the manual (see 991 GT3 reviews) as long as you leave your close minded agenda outside.

Having a preference after acknowledging all of the facts is a closed-minded agenda? Maybe it's just a preference.

Nope. Transmissions are not built the same, they do not act the same. Try actually driving some of them. A great DCT gearbox is miles more interesting than the manual in a Civic.

Why is the DCT more interesting to you? I'm curious. That would be something worth talking about.

To me, what makes a manual transmission great is the physical interaction between man and machine. It doesn't matter how fast or slow the car is, it doesn't matter how great of a car it is, it doesn't even matter if the mechanicals of the transmission itself are well-crafted. It can be a crude old truck with arms-length throws between gears.

I think it's fun to manipulate a clutch and shifter, even on a trip to the grocery store. It's a skill I've practiced for more than a decade, and I'm fond of it. To me, it's an integral part of the driving experience, no different from steering, braking, or using the throttle. Transmissions that remove the clutch pedal and H-pattern shifter literally take away part of what driving means to me. I understand that it's not that important to other people (including some journalists and those 8C owners), but it's important to me.

You seem to be trying to convince me that an emotional attachment founded upon a mechanical interface that a semi-automatic transmission will never replace is "factually" incorrect. That's why you might feel like this by now:

It was never my intention to lead you down that path of argument. Maybe I haven't been making my point clear enough. If so, sorry.

 

[McLaren]

You seem to be trying to convince me that an emotional attachment founded upon a mechanical interface that a semi-automatic transmission will never replace is "factually" incorrect. That's why you might feel like this by now:

It was never my intention to lead you down that path of argument. Maybe I haven't been making my point clear enough. If so, sorry.

You would prefer it to have a manual & find it uncool, that's fine. But at the end of the day, the car itself wouldn't have been engineered or received any differently. Your preference would not make it a funner car based on how everyone that has owned/driven it has concluded about it. You can assume it would be based on your preference, but that's not going to necessarily be true.

Until then, the only point that's been clear as day is now is this.

no amount of reasoning will convince me otherwise.

Pretty pointless of me to continue as long as you stay attached to this type of thinking.

 

[Wolfe]

I still don't understand where you get the idea that I was making a statement about how the 8C would have been received by anyone else, or how fun it is to drive for anyone else. I wasn't even asserting that it ought to have been engineered with a manual. It's perfectly logical for the 8C to be equipped the way it is; that doesn't mean I have to like it.

For people like me...

I didn't intend to represent anything I said as objective fact, and I don't care how a three-pedal 8C would be received by anyone else...

...for me...

...I never vote based on popular image or what anyone else thinks...me. My reasoning...to me.

...for me...It's completely personal.

...as far as I'm concerned...my opinion...

...this is an open poll regarding "coolness", a topic that's pretty much as subjective as any discussion about cars can get.

...that's how I roll.

...I never vote based on anyone's thoughts but my own.

To me...In my mind...me...I prefer...

...if I'm the one behind the wheel...That's just me, and my Cool Wall vote.

...to me...

..As far as I'm concerned...I'm not making that claim on behalf of anyone else...To me...

...I, myself...to me

To me...

I think it's fun...I'm fond of it. To me...what driving means to me...it's important to me.

^ I was laying that on pretty thick.

 

[Tornado]

You expect McLaren to actually admit that he might have been wrong about something?





You're lucky he's only attacked your character a couple times to this point.