GTP Cool Wall: 2007-2010 Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione

[GTRacer22]

Cool. RWD V8 Alfa, superb looks. It's just got that Italian GT car feel to it. Competizione Red for me, please.

 

[Suzumiya]

Cool, what a beautiful car.

 

[Sage Ages]

It's not a Ferrari 458.

Cool.

 

[Wolfe]

It has a gearbox (not that that has any bearing on the coolness of any car that's ever existed).

Driving with a manual transmission is a cool experience; it adds interest to literally everything with wheels. Cars with automated transmissions lack that element of interest. It's kind of worse when the car is otherwise sporty and fun, because a manual multiplies the fun factor, so its omission is even more glaring. For people like me, anyway.

Automated transmissions are perfectly practical and sensible for a variety of reasons, but for something like the 8C, its transmission is a soulless appeal to marketability and efficacy, sacrificing pleasure (to some) in a car that is otherwise clearly built for pleasure.

 

[ScottPuss20]

A true Alfa Romeo. Cool

 

[McLaren]

Driving with a manual transmission is a cool experience; it adds interest to literally everything with wheels. Cars with automated transmissions lack that element of interest. It's kind of worse when the car is otherwise sporty and fun, because a manual multiplies the fun factor, so its omission is even more glaring. For people like me, anyway.

Automated transmissions are perfectly practical and sensible for a variety of reasons, but for something like the 8C, its transmission is a soulless appeal to marketability and efficacy, sacrificing pleasure (to some) in a car that is otherwise clearly built for pleasure.

OR it could be the fact it's built on a shortened Gran Turismo-body, using a Gran Turismo-sourced V8, coupled with a Quattroporte-sourced transmission with a Magneti system out of the F430/599 & was built on the same line as the Maseratis. They picked it because the car is basically a Maserati underneath engineered differently.

Claiming they "sacrificed" the purpose of the car (pleasure as you call it) by only offering it in auto is merely you spinning your bias for manuals as a fact. This car wouldn't have been received any differently with 3 pedals & a stick.

 

[Wolfe]

@McLaren -- I didn't intend to represent anything I said as objective fact (I specifically left the phrases, "For people like me, anyway" and "(to some)" to qualify my statements as subjective), and I don't care how a three-pedal 8C would be received by anyone else, because it's my Cool Wall vote.

Wiegert said the gearbox has no bearing on coolness. My only point was to explain why, for me, it does.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren -- I didn't intend to represent anything I said as objective fact (I specifically left the phrases, "For people like me, anyway" and "(to some)" to qualify my statements as subjective), and I don't care how a three-pedal 8C would be received by anyone else, because it's my Cool Wall vote.

Wiegert said the gearbox has no bearing on coolness. My only point was to explain why, for me, it does.

You specifically said, "its transmission is a soulless appeal to marketability & efficacy". That's not true.

It only does because you're biased. He's completely right & this car is a perfect example.

 

[Stotty]

Alfa Romeos are over rated & unreliable, and live off past reputations.

The 8c however, is just a stunning piece of design.

Cool.

 

[Ingram]

unreliable

I, sir, take exception to that. My 156 was perfectly reliable...

... Right up until the point lots of things in the bottom end started colliding with one another

Seriously though, catastrophic engine failure aside it was more reliable then either of the BMWs I've owned. At least the Alfa started every morning..

 

[Murcie_LP640]

No matter how apparently dull it is to drive:

I'd much rather have that to look at in my driveway than the 8C. Even in plain Jane white.

The Alfa Romeo gets a low Cool still though, mostly because of noises rather than general beauty.

 

[Wiegert]

Wiegert said the gearbox has no bearing on coolness. My only point was to explain why, for me, it does.

For me, first impressions do a lot more to sway my opinion on how cool a vehicle is. I doubt that anybody's going to walk up alongside one to peer through the windows and tell themselves it's not cool after all just because it's lacking a man stick.

For you, the driving experience may seem cooler/more pleasurable with one as opposed to using paddles. But to suggest that that does enough to undermine a cars image (especially one with plenty going for it aesthetically) seems awfully unreasonable.

 

[Stotty]

I, sir, take exception to that. My 156 was perfectly reliable...

... Right up until the point lots of things in the bottom end started colliding with one another

Seriously though, catastrophic engine failure aside it was more reliable then either of the BMWs I've owned. At least the Alfa started every morning..

My 156 had 2 engines in 4 years - 1st one the oil pump seized, 2nd time the head gasket went. In addition, it had a new ECU, and spent c.25% of its life in the dealers for gearbox work (selespeed 'box was a POS)... and the dealers were the most incompetent I've ever had the 'pleasure' to leave my car with.

Alongside a Rover 200 Gti I ran, it was the most unreliable car I've ever run.

When I had the 156 my brother was running a 2l petrol Mondeo - the Mondeo was just as quick, had better economy, had better steering, handled and rode MUCH better, had more space inside and was better built. All the 156 had going for it was the styling (one of the best 4 door shapes ever) and engine note. In every other was it was inferior!

I still loved it... when it was working

 

[Wolfe]

@McLaren @Wiegert -- Don't forget that I never vote based on popular image or what anyone else thinks. I'm not asserting that the 8C is uncool to anyone other than me. My reasoning is this: it's just another modern sportscar with a 400hp+ V8 and paddle shifters (yawn) and another symptom of the slow decline of something meaningful to me.

Wiegert said the gearbox doesn't matter, and I felt like sharing why, for me, it does. I can be a manual purist without making bogus objective claims about them. We're all familiar with those kids who carry a misguided notion of the pecking order of the automotive world. I'm just a guy who thinks rowing through the gears and pumping a clutch pedal is a fundamental part of the driving experience. It's completely personal.

 

[Ingram]

My 156 had 2 engines in 4 years - 1st one the oil pump seized, 2nd time the head gasket went. In addition, it had a new ECU, and spent c.25% of its life in the dealers for gearbox work (selespeed 'box was a POS)... and the dealers were the most incompetent I've ever had the 'pleasure' to leave my car with.

Alongside a Rover 200 Gti I ran, it was the most unreliable car I've ever run.

When I had the 156 my brother was running a 2l petrol Mondeo - the Mondeo was just as quick, had better economy, had better steering, handled and rode MUCH better, had more space inside and was better built. All the 156 had going for it was the styling (one of the best 4 door shapes ever) and engine note. In every other was it was inferior!

I still loved it... when it was working

Yep, agree that the Mondeo was better in most ways, but the 156 is so pretty that I didn't even slightly care. At least I avoided two of your issues: first, mine was a manual; and second, I bought it from an Alfa specialist who was both genuinely interested and really knew his stuff!

 

[MatskiMonk]

Ugly.

Alfa Romeo.

Uncool.

 

[Stotty]

Yep, agree that the Mondeo was better in most ways, but the 156 is so pretty that I didn't even slightly care. At least I avoided two of your issues: first, mine was a manual; and second, I bought it from an Alfa specialist who was both genuinely interested and really knew his stuff!

I know what you mean.

Mine was a new 2001MY 2.0TS Selespeed (Rosso, black leather) and even after it had been off the road for repairs AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, I just loved looking at it... such a pretty shape.

A mate of mine had a silver manual 2.0TS with red leather... I always regretted ordering the Selespeed as it meant I couldn't have metallic paint... and silver over red was a lovely combination.

But they were so unreliable my company took them off our company car list shortly after I ordered mine... the silver car I mentioned above was another one that had multiple engines in its 4 year life on our list.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren @Wiegert -- Don't forget that I never vote based on popular image or what anyone else thinks. I'm not asserting that the 8C is uncool to anyone other than me. My reasoning is this: it's just another modern sportscar with a 400hp+ V8 and paddle shifters (yawn) and another symptom of the slow decline of something meaningful to me.

Wiegert said the gearbox doesn't matter, and I felt like sharing why, for me, it does. I can be a manual purist without making bogus objective claims about them. We're all familiar with those kids who carry a misguided notion of the pecking order of the automotive world. I'm just a guy who thinks rowing through the gears and pumping a clutch pedal is a fundamental part of the driving experience. It's completely personal.

Being personal & just spewing nonsense are different things, though. Your claim above was completely founded on your agenda against anything non-manual rather than actually knowing the real reasoning.

You let a transmission affect your choice as much as JMoney let wire wheels affect his. Your whole reasoning could have also really held some weight if you had known what this car was originally shown with in 2003, but you didn't because you just made a judgmental statement about why they picked what they did based on nothing than bias. You don't have to try to beat around the bush.

 

[Tornado]

I suppose Slash can't always be the one with the target painted on his back.

 

[motortrend]

I don't care what anyone says, including myself, this is SZ.

 

[Wolfe]

@McLaren -- I don't think I'm beating around the bush. Allow me to clarify: as far as I'm concerned, semi-automatic transmissions are always an appeal to marketability and efficacy. They make good business sense, and cars are objectively superior when equipped with one. You've explained the transmission's origins, but it doesn't change anything. Alfa Romeo could have sourced or engineered a manual transmission for the 8C, but they didn't. In an objective sense, I don't fault them for that. But that has no bearing on my opinion of the "coolness" of a modern sportscar with paddle shifters.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren -- I don't think I'm beating around the bush. Allow me to clarify: as far as I'm concerned, semi-automatic transmissions are always an appeal to marketability and efficacy. They make good business sense, and cars are objectively superior when equipped with one. You've explained the transmission's origins, but it doesn't change anything. Alfa Romeo could have sourced or engineered a manual transmission for the 8C, but they didn't. In an objective sense, I don't fault them for that. But that has no bearing on my opinion of the "coolness" of a modern sportscar with paddle shifters.

Because it wouldn't make any sense to; why engineer up a new transmission for a car sourced from a Maserati when that a Maserati's transmission is easily the most viable option? That's why this car has the transmission it does, not because it was easier to market or because it was superior with it b/c again, it wouldn't have made a difference in how it was received or sold.

Manuals>Auto is how you roll, no other clarity needed. Anything else that could describe the differences is just irrelevant information to your ears.

 

[Wolfe]

Because it wouldn't make any sense to; why engineer up a new transmission for a car sourced from a Maserati when that a Maserati's transmission is easily the most viable option?

Exactly. That's why I said I don't fault them for it.

Manuals>Auto is how you roll, no other clarity needed. Anything else that could describe the differences is just irrelevant information to your ears.

I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages either way, so objectively speaking, no, the facts aren't irrelevant. But this is an open poll regarding "coolness", a topic that's pretty much as subjective as any discussion about cars can get. I'm being deliberately judgmental.

In an emotional sense, yes, manual is always superior to auto in my world. So a car that is only offered with two pedals is uncool by default, though there's room for exceptions. As you said, that's how I roll.

 

[McLaren]

I'm aware of the advantages and disadvantages either way, so objectively speaking, no, the facts aren't irrelevant. But this is an open poll regarding "coolness", a topic that's pretty much as subjective as any discussion about cars can get. I'm being deliberately judgmental.

I'm referring to the different types in each specific transmission since they're not all built the same. Information you seemed to block out in the past once you heard manual & automatic b/c you already decided which is better.

In an emotional sense, yes, manual is always superior to auto in my world. So a car that is only offered with two pedals is uncool by default, though there's room for exceptions. As you said, that's how I roll.

This is why beforehand I said you beat around the bush by claiming the 8C sucks the pleasure out of it despite journalists/owners' feedback being unchanged if it did have a manual. It had nothing to do with the car.

 

[homeforsummer]

More or less the definition of a car that isn't particularly good (at least in comparison to its peers) but is quite cool. Not just for the 'Alfa' factor either - more for the fact that a manufacturer stuck in a rut building regular hatchbacks decided to chuck a load of money at a V8 sports car project for a bit of fun. It's Alfa's equivalent of the Clio V6.

 

[Sage Ages]

A manual does make it slightly cooler, but an automatic isn't necessarily an uncool trait, at least in my opinion.

 

[hasslemoff]

In an emotional sense, yes, manual is always superior to auto in my world. So a car that is only offered with two pedals is uncool by default, though there's room for exceptions. As you said, that's how I roll.

A manual does make it slightly cooler, but an automatic isn't necessarily an uncool trait, at least in my opinion.

Its semi Automatic not Automatic. You change gears by using the paddles instead of a stick, yes it only gives you two pedals but if your saying that its uncool by default then I would like to see what you think all of the other cars with paddle shifters. Most car manufacturers are heading towards the paddles shifters and could be the norm in numerous years.

Voted Sub Zero sounds amazing looks amazing and should be a classic.

 

[Wolfe]

...This is why beforehand I said you beat around the bush by claiming the 8C sucks the pleasure out of it despite journalists/owners' feedback being unchanged if it did have a manual. It had nothing to do with the car.

I thought I was pretty clear in explaining that I never vote based on anyone's thoughts but my own. The opinions of owners and journalists were irrelevant from the beginning.

To me, a manual transmission is like a third of the driving experience in a fun car. In my mind, it's such a fundamental and integral element of the joy of driving that no amount of reasoning will convince me otherwise. Why should it? It's the way I prefer to drive.

I acknowledge all the facts, but if I'm the one behind the wheel, a car without a manual transmission is missing something, no matter how fast or exciting it is. And with a manual transmission it would be more desirable, even if it would be objectively worse for it (slower around a track, etc.). That's just me, and my Cool Wall vote. I'm not pretending manual is objectively superior, proselytizing about it, or questioning anyone's masculinity.

...yes it only gives you two pedals but if your saying that its uncool by default then I would like to see what you think all of the other cars with paddle shifters. Most car manufacturers are heading towards the paddles shifters and could be the norm in numerous years.

I'm aware of this and I resent the trend, among other trends in modern cars, like intrusive safety assists and by-wire controls. Autonomy is important to me, which is one of the reasons I favor manual transmission.

 

[McLaren]

I thought I was pretty clear in explaining that I never vote based on anyone's thoughts but my own. The opinions of owners and journalists were irrelevant from the beginning.

Except you then posted those thoughts. I don't care if you prefer a stick or that you voted it uncool; it's the questionable claims.

The owners/journalists who have driven the car come to conclusions that aren't really affected by the transmission, say it's a very fun car to drive? And the one guy who has never actually driven it comes to the conclusion that the paddle shifters suck the pleasure out of driving it? Come on man, we both know that's a pretty silly statement to make regardless of whether or not you prefer manuals; try driving it first before you form an opinion on whether or not it's a pleasurable car to begin with.

Picture this scenario on Ferrarichat & me telling folks, "The F355 with the paddles sucks the fun out of it". "How so?" "'Cause you can't row gears". "Have you driven it?" "No." "Then how would you know such a thing?" You see where this is going right? How I'm stating an opinion without any personal experience to make it?

To me, a manual transmission is like a third of the driving experience in a fun car. In my mind, it's such a fundamental and integral element of the joy of driving that no amount of reasoning will convince me otherwise. Why should it? It's the way I prefer to drive.

Which is when you get to a point where folks will start to disregard your opinion on anything regarding transmissions b/c you'll be perceived as sticking your fingers in your ears when someone questions you. Which is exactly where this is going.

 

[Wolfe]

@McLaren -- I never said the 8C wouldn't be any fun to drive. You're reading too much into when I said automated transmissions sacrifice pleasure for other things. They give up a piece of the puzzle; it doesn't throw the whole experience out. The 8C is still a 444hp RWD sportscar.

I also said this:

...It's kind of worse when the car is otherwise sporty and fun, because a manual multiplies the fun factor, so its omission is even more glaring.

The 8C's lack of a manual transmission is important because it's undoubtedly fun to drive. It's not as big of a deal if a Buick is equipped with a 4-speed slushbox.

I've driven fast cars with paddle shifters, but I don't need to drive any particular car to understand what a semi-automatic transmission means in terms of the driving experience. The difference it makes is obvious: you change gears by pulling a paddle/lever. That's not as enjoyable as moving an H-pattern shifter through the gears and operating a clutch pedal. It's cut-and-dried.

I'm sure the 8C is a blast to drive. As far as I'm concerned, it would be even more of a blast to drive if it had a manual transmission. I'm not making that claim on behalf of anyone else, and I'm not proselytizing. The reason I brought this up is because Wiegert said (following my first post in the thread) that the gearbox has no bearing on anything. To me, it's a blemish. It doesn't make the 8C a bad car, but it does make it an uncool one.