GTP Cool Wall: 2012 DeltaWing

[Legro]

The race car that raced against no other but itself.

 

[Bo]

The DeltaWing, contrary to popular belief, was (and still is) the opposite of a failure. It proved that a car with low power and a low Cd value through a radical design can work in motorsport. The only reason people have a bad memory of it is because it was involved in a completely freak accident that took itself and another car out, but since a lot of people have no intention of watching TUSCC (because Le Mans bubble-ism), they would have no idea of how far the concept has come. If it didn't have a gearbox made of soggy cardboard, it would have some fantastic results on the board by now, and probably would've won the Rolex 24 this year.

Gets a cool because oddball race car.

 

[Joey D]

Seriously uncool. It's a racecar and a Nissan.

 

[CarBastard]

It had the 1.6 litre turbo from the standard Juke DIG-T. The TT V6 would have been too heavy.

That's what Nissan says, but some sources claim that RML provided an engine actually intended for a WTCC racer. The whole Nissan/DeltaWing/Panoz ordeal in court is tremendously uncool.

 

[Doodle]

I find racecars cool, but I the Deltawing Seriously Uncool for me.

 

[Tyger]

Fascinating and brave, though whilst I don't agree with the prototype/one-off = instant uncool rule some subscribe to, I have something of a difficult time voting on race cars, as they are more about functionality than anything else. Also it's a shame Nissan's brass balls didn't amount to much on this occasion, and the whole Panoz episode left something of a bad taste.

Then they come back with a front-engined car, but oh sweet irony, was much less of a success than Panoz's efforts with the Esperante. I guess I give this a Cool because it's pretty outside the box, which should be encouraged in one of the few motorsports that allows such flexibility.

 

[Stotty]

SUBRC.

Nissan are using Motorsport simply as PR stunt. 1st the Deltawing, then the FWD LMP1 this year. It's OK to be different, but not if you're not competitive.

 

[SomePlayaDude]

I'm applauding Nissan trying to be different than the norm.

It reminds me of myself.

 

[Bo]

SUBRC.

Nissan are using Motorsport simply as PR stunt. 1st the Deltawing, then the FWD LMP1 this year. It's OK to be different, but not if you're not competitive.

a) G56 has no competition.
b) The "FWD" LMP1 was only FWD because it broke.

Nissan are probably the most dead-serious and successful force in international motorsport currently. None of what they do is a "stunt".

 

[Stotty]

If they were 'serious', they'd wouldn't build something that was in a class of 1.

Let's see how committed they are to the LMP1 project - if they continue to develop the car and come back next year with something that can run somewhere close to Audi/Porsche/Toyota I'll believe it.

Otherwise it looks like being different for the sake of being different.

 

[Bo]

If they were 'serious', they'd wouldn't build something that was in a class of 1.

Right, so all G56 entries aren't serious. It was a serious idea that proved itself, that's why it's competed ever since then.

Let's see how committed they are to the LMP1 project - if they continue to develop the car and come back next year with something that can run somewhere close to Audi/Porsche/Toyota I'll believe it.

What makes you think they aren't committed? Why do ToroTrak's shortcomings affect the validity of Nissan's efforts?

You said Nissan used motorsport as a PR stunt, and picked a car that proved a radical concept successful and a broken car as examples. Every manufacturer is in motorsport for the PR, it's just how much Nissan invests into the PR that gives some people the wrong impression. It doesn't affect their results.

 

[Famine]

If they were 'serious', they'd wouldn't build something that was in a class of 1.

It was in a class of 15. Unless you mean the Deltawing which they didn't build - it's an AMR One tub with a rebated RML engine built by AAR. Nissan only provided full factory support for it - and only really for Le Mans and Petit Le Mans.

Let's see how committed they are to the LMP1 project - if they continue to develop the car and come back next year with something that can run somewhere close to Audi/Porsche/Toyota I'll believe it.

You know it was as fast on the straights as those cars despite missing all of its hybrid power (but still carrying the weight of it) due to the only part it didn't make itself - down at least 750 hp on anything else in the class as a result - but still turned up to drive it as far as it could anyway, right?

And you know that Nissan provides engines for almost all LMP2 cars and absolutely all LMP3 cars and, under the guise of Renault, F1 engines, right?

But yes, they're clearly just dicking about with motorsports for marketing purposes...


Sure, PR is involved - at least part of the decision to make the GT-R LM so different was because there's no point making another R18 clone, but throwing millions at it if they didn't think it'd work is not sane. Still, let's find a manufacturer that doesn't turn motorsport into PR...

 

[niky]

Bowlby trolled a lot of people into letting him run his science fair project at LeMans.

Sub zero.

But seriously... isn't this why we watch top level racing? To see innovation? The Deltawing and the GTR-LM show that you can do something different and still run reasonably well. And if Nissan fails, so what? They've put their money where their mouth is, and are pouring millions into innovative approaches to racing... and millions into driver development programs to give a chance to guys who simply don't have access to the motorsports ladder.

The GTR-LM and DeltaWing created more buzz than the... whatever Toyota calls their car... amongst people who don't typically care about endurance racing. Sure, it's PR, but it's not simply a PR exercise for the sake of it... there's a lot of incredibly clever engineering going on there, and that's worth celebrating, win or lose.

 

[Stotty]

The GTR-LM and DeltaWing created more buzz than the... whatever Toyota calls their car... amongst people who don't typically care about endurance racing.

Sorry for selective quoting, but this is exactly my point.

Not confident/able enough beat Audi/Porsche at their own game, so bring something weird and untested, and go for the publicity instead.

Not doubting Nissan's general commitment to motorsport, but their history at Le Mans is to try for a year or maybe 2, then disappear. I'm not holding my breath we'll see a working GTR-LM at next year's race... maybe they'll bring a jet engined 6 wheeler.

 

[Bo]

Not confident/able enough beat Audi/Porsche at their own game,

No, they went for a design that has a performance advantage. Thinking inside the box isn't always how you make the best car.

so bring something weird and untested

Hardly that weird, it's exactly like every other P1-H except the position of the IC and ERS are switched, meaning they can be more flexible with aero. They also did a bucket load of testing, but ultimately got held back the cracked tubs and subsequent redesign.

and go for the publicity instead.

As stated above, it's all about marketing and publicity for every team. They went for something different on the basis that it offers a performance advantage too, not simply as a stunt.

but their history at Le Mans is to try for a year or maybe 2, then disappear.

This is a two year programme. This is wholly deliberate this time round.

I'm not holding my breath we'll see a working GTR-LM at next year's race...

Why? What is there to suggest that ToroTrak won't supply them with a usable hybrid? It will work now, it's just minor gremlins that render it useless.

maybe they'll bring a jet engined 6 wheeler.

Does your selective quoting come with selective reading?

throwing millions at it if they didn't think it'd work is not sane.

 

[Famine]

Not confident/able enough beat Audi/Porsche at their own game, so bring something weird and untested, and go for the publicity instead.

Errr... [The Last Leg's politican button]

They had tested it and were confident in it. So much so that they advanced the program from just LM24 to the whole WEC season from go to woah.

Until the hybrid powertrain made by someone else turned up and didn't work properly. They pulled out of the first two rounds of WEC (LM24 being round 3) but kept trying to get the hybrid powertrain made by someone else to do the job it was supposed to do - 6MJ to the rear wheels and 2MJ to the front - but they couldn't. Eventually they had to abandon the hybrid system altogether, which meant they were losing at least 750hp out of the corners and a whole boatload of braking effort from the energy recovery system into them - but the car is still so aerodynamically sound that it was hitting the same top speeds at the end of the straights as the top LMP1-H cars.

But they still brought the badly broken car to Le Mans, because that's what they said they'd do. No Red Bull-esque whining about how the engine (or hybrid system in this case) sucked and they were going to pull out - they brought all three cars and said nuts to it, we're racing anyway.

Not doubting Nissan's general commitment to motorsport, but their history at Le Mans is to try for a year or maybe 2, then disappear.

Wut? [The Last Leg's politican button]

Their first ever LM24 was 1986. They raced in every single LM24 through to 1990, and from 1991 on they campaigned the same Group C cars against Toyota and Mazda in the domestic All Japan Prototype Championship.

They came back in 1995 and ran a GT1 class Skyline for two years, then built the R390 just to race at Le Mans for two years and then when barely homologated GT1 race cars like it (and the GT-One, CLK-GTR/CLK-LM and 911 GT1) were banned, they built another LMP based on a Courage chassis just to race at Le Mans for 1999.

So that's two five year spells - Nissan's only previous Le Mans attempts.

Again, ignoring the fact that they supply the majority of the LMP2 engines since they started doing that again in 2011. Which would also be a five year spell, so far.

 

[Tornado]

They pulled out of the first two rounds of WEC (LM24 being round 3) but kept trying to get the hybrid powertrain made by someone else to do the job it was supposed to do - 6MJ to the rear wheels and 2MJ to the front - but they couldn't.

Could they really have expected to be able to harness the combined power of 8 Michael Jordans anyway?

 

[Zenith]

Could they really have expected to be able to harness the combined power of 8 Michael Jordans anyway?

Come on and slam! And welcome to the bottom of the class.

 

[synchromesh]

Very unique design, and innovative. Cool.

 

[axletramp]

The innovation and shear balls of doing something different makes it instantly cool. I doesn't matter that it looks like the Batmobile and wasn't particularly successful, but that's missing the point of something being cool.

 

[Liquid]

Is this a Nissan? I thought this was an Eagle (or All-American Racers if you prefer) with Nissan naming rights in exchange for Nissan engines.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Is this a Nissan? I thought this was an Eagle (or All-American Racers if you prefer) with Nissan naming rights in exchange for Nissan engines.

I believe it was built by AAR and Nissan only gave their temporary backing to the project for Le Mans and Petit before they withdrew and built it again as the Zeod.

 

[Famine]

Is this a Nissan? I thought this was an Eagle (or All-American Racers if you prefer) with Nissan naming rights in exchange for Nissan engines.

It's a Deltawing.

"Deltawing Racing Cars" was a joint concern between AAR, Highcroft Racing, Nissan, Panoz and Michelin.