GTP Spec Miata Racing Series : Season 1 Complete; Season 2 Soon!

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R1600Turbo
Obviously we can't trust people, so what now?
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If only PD would allow us to select which penalties to turn on. Because shortcut penalties I can understand, but contact penalties are annoying (not to mention poorly implemented) and contact is unavoidable.

As far as trusting people; I have no clue what to do. I do think that changing rules in the middle of a series is uncalled for. Run the series through to the end without adding in 5 point penalties (or this rule and that restriction) and if people continue to do things that would necessitate a system like that, then implement it for the next 'season' or if there are repeat offenders that continue to do things that are frowned upon then kindly let them know they are not welcome next season.

I don't want to name drop either, so I wont, but I am pretty sure I saw some generous lines through the chicane during qualifying to get a nice position for the race start. I can't speak to how said person drove during the race as I couldn't keep up with the faster half of the field... but I do know that one of those quick people didn't get their qualifying time by being 100% legit. Of course I don't have any way to prove it because you can't save replays during Free Run.

So I guess you're right... maybe we can't trust people.

tt997
No, this is racing. Racing does something to men who race. You have cheaters all over the place in this series already. Every found it a little bit too hard to draft up and pass a particular car? Ever thought it seemed odd that another car shifted up to 3rd gear about 3 seconds after you did because you were already banging off the rev limiter? I have seen those and more on so many occasions that I am getting a pretty clear picture of what is going on here. IN real SM, our cars are built to the limit of the rules, and then to the limit of those rules that can actually be detected. This series is no difference. I GUARANTEE you will find LSDs, Carbon driveshafts, Illegal Trannies, and flywheels. Power, weight and tires are the only things you can control the rest is open to racer integrity. Which, as in real life, is open to interpretation.
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THIS.
 
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GrahamTurismo
If only PD would allow us to select which penalties to turn on. Because shortcut penalties I can understand, but contact penalties are annoying (not to mention poorly implemented) and contact is unavoidable.

As far as trusting people; I have no clue what to do. I do think that changing rules in the middle of a series is uncalled for. Run the series through to the end without adding in 5 point penalties and if people continue to do things that would necessitate a system like that, then implement it for the next 'season' or if there are repeat offenders that continue to do things that are frowned upon then kindly let them know they are not welcome next season.

I don't want to name drop either, so I wont, but I am pretty sure I saw some generous lines through the chicane during qualifying to get a nice position for the race start. I can't speak to how said person drove during the race as I couldn't keep up with the faster half of the field... but I do know that one of those quick people didn't get their qualifying time by being 100% legit. Of course I don't have any way to prove it because you can't save replays during Free Run.

So I guess you're right... maybe we can't trust people.
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Just go watch Zissou's video again. Then you tell me if you find it peculiar that all of a sudden everyone could do 47s for qualifying knowing there were no penalties for any chicanery at the chicane.
 
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we brought this up earlier, why not just allow all the other "illegal" modifications? That, or have everyone "prove" they arent running anything illegal, and post a video of their mod setup. Similiar to what we had to do when qualifying.. we had to prove what time we ran by recording the menu time. Thats pretty much the only 2 options were left with, if we continue to run the series without doing them, there will always be some speculation on this grey area. But when its all said and done, there really shouldnt be any sort of "cheating" to begin with. Were all here racing for peanuts, but mainly its for fun. If people need to cheat their way to gain an edge on this series, whatever helps you sleep better at night.

the penalties enforcement is a tough one to call, its definitely lacks realism when you can drive right through other cars, lead lap or not. Also the bogus "short cut" penalties the game gives you. I really think were all good enough to not have to use the in-game penalty system, but simply enforce penalties after the race. everyone has access to the replays, and I think we all have enough common sense to figure out whats an accident/mistake and whats intentional/spiteful.

The idea of being behind the leader by a few seconds, but running as 'partners' with a drafting buddy to catch up makes perfect sense, but it has to be mutually agreed upon. I'm all for that strategy, because you basically have no shot at winning unless you can make up that gap with someone else. If you spend the entire lap passing eachother back and forth, you're just going to lose more and more time. Even with mics plugged in, it doesnt even need to be a verbal agreement. You should be able to find out real fast how your 'partner' wants to do things. I specifically remember this happening on our Trial Mtn Finale race, myself and EL_ZISSOU found ourslves 6-7 seconds back from Turbo and Egg. Z kept wanting to battle me, and we kept trading 3rd place back and forth. I finally realized we are making zero progress, so I started to just follow him all around the track, and finally bump drafting him down the long back straightaway. He got the idea, and once I passed him he returned the favor. We quickly caught up to the leaders within a few laps.

As far as the race goes last night, it was fun. I did see some short cutting going on, which was just a real bummer to see it happening so blatantly. I'm guilty of cutting the chicane myself, but it was mainly when I was side by side to avoid a collision. Everyone that rubbed paint with me was pretty fair passing wise (Warez,Graham,tt997,Silver) I wish I didnt make the mistakes I made, I think I couldve ran up front with the leaders by looking at sector times.

props to EL_Z for the win, nice job


hey nethereal those are awesome videos, what do you use to record these races? A capture card thats plugged into your computer? Can you give me some info about it, or PM me. thanks
 
Then maybe we should just give up. If people are cheating, then there's no reason to run the rest of the season.
 
Penalty wise, I'm ok with whatever is decided, like I said, people here are usually trustworthy (demonstrated by people admitting to cutting the chicane, even by accident like one the case of samhain) but if we go with the penalty system I will be perfectly fine with it.
 
R1600Turbo
Then maybe we should just give up. If people are cheating, then there's no reason to run the rest of the season.
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Dude, don't be like that. You have created a great series and accomplished something pretty cool that brings a lot of complete strangers together day in and day out to race together. I for one like the guys I've met here and enjoy driving with them all week. It's fun and it's because of your efforts. F-ing kudos to you!! and I most sincerely mean it!

It's also your first time doing this and based the rules on the general principles that people would adhere to the honor system. In the heat of battle and in the spirit of competition, they aren't-they won't either. YES you have cheaters. Have had them all along too. This is why every single governing body of every single form of real racing has an infrastructure in place to enforce legal cars and legal driving.

You are the boss Turbo. You want to open up the rules to officially allow all those no detectable mods then all it takes from you is a few sentences on the first page. Same goes for changing tires and changing to Sport suspension. It matters nothing that we are 2 races in right now. Everyone is in the same boat.
 
tt997
Dude, don't be like that. You have created a great series and accomplished something pretty cool that brings a lot of complete strangers together day in and day out to race together. I for one like the guys I've met here and enjoy driving with them all week. It's fun and it's because of your efforts. F-ing kudos to you!! and I most sincerely mean it!

It's also your first time doing this and based the rules on the general principles that people would adhere to the honor system. In the heat of battle and in the spirit of competition, they aren't-they won't either. YES you have cheaters. Have had them all along too. This is why every single governing body of every single form of real racing has an infrastructure in place to enforce legal cars and legal driving.

You are the boss Turbo. You want to open up the rules to officially allow all those no detectable mods then all it takes from you is a few sentences on the first page. Same goes for changing tires and changing to Sport suspension.
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This. This series is much more of a success and friendlier than most other groups I've seen
 
No way! I'm having way to much fun racing with you guys to just cancel the series. I know some of you run multiple events on GTP, but personally this is the only series I run, and the first series I've ran since Forza2 2 years ago. Its too bad PD didnt include a more sophisticated modification regulations, none of this would be a problem. But like you said before, maybe this first season will be used as trial and error to iron out all the kinks so the next season can be as smooth as possible, since most of us have mixed opinions about the series right now. But dont cancel it!!! It will all work out
 
Imma keep this post simple,
My Vote:
  • Penalties on during quali/race
  • no mics during race
  • keep mods list as is for this season, too late
  • sport suspension, med tires for next season
what else should we vote for?
 
I'm going to do some thinking for the next couple days and let everyone know what's up.
 
iamjamen
I have no reaction to this comment.
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not sure how you took that Brosif... I meant it is proving inaccurate to permanently assign us to A/B rooms based on how much time we spent running around that stupid Autumn ring to seal our A/B futures. Referencing you was proof of that. You should have been racing for the win in A as I bet could some of the other B drivers. Hell, I suck in A.
 
I agree cancelling is definitely not necessary I too am having way too much fun even though I'm running in the back all the time. This is my first online racing experience and I couldn't have picked a better series to join. The way I see it if you think you can handle it go with the no penalty, assess things after the race deal I think that's cool. I'm even willing to help with the race review if needed.
 
No cancel +1

and two solutions- 1. change the spec settings rules to only the ones you can enforce. This includes changing suspension. keep the weight and HP tires. Everything else is open.

2. changing the overall gridding structure to include everyone regardless of A/B run 2 rooms for qualifying, you can view all the best lap times in spectator mode. Then grid the whole group in order of qualifying times. No more A/B groups, just A/B rooms. There will be a little room changing before the race but you can even still use the auto gridding feature to set the grid properly.

There. whatever else needs tweaking tweak away. Don't cancel this.
 
tt997
not sure how you took that Brosif... I meant it is proving inaccurate to permanently assign us to A/B rooms based on how much time we spent running around that stupid Autumn ring to seal our A/B futures. Referencing you was proof of that. You should have been racing for the win in A as I bet could some of the other B drivers. Hell, I suck in A.
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I too suck in A
 
Well definitely don't cancel anything :grumpy:, we would probably just go on without you anyways :lol:

The penalty system in the game is a bit lacking, so that's not my first choice. Besides, it's still possible to gain time by cutting even with the penalties on on certain tracks.
Since we're modeling this series after the real Spec Miata series, and we have a few real life Spec Miata racers in this series, how does the SCCA deal with infractions? I'm specifically referring to driving infractions, illegal cars are a different story at this point with the limited options the game currently gives us.
I would assume that a complaint is filed with the race officials, and it is investigated from there. We could implement a similar system here. If an obvious infraction is witnessed, it's up to someone to report it and the replay can be reviewed. There could also be random replay reviews for blatant course cutting, etc.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents :)
 
Egghead43
Well definitely don't cancel anything :grumpy:, we would probably just go on without you anyways :lol:

The penalty system in the game is a bit lacking, so that's not my first choice. Besides, it's still possible to gain time by cutting even with the penalties on on certain tracks.
Since we're modeling this series after the real Spec Miata series, and we have a few real life Spec Miata racers in this series, how does the SCCA deal with infractions?

Anyways, that's my 2 cents :)
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Al- mee too, let's just move ourselves to the B room. Brosif can come up to A or stay. It's got to be more fun than what we are currently doing. I enjoy the mid week stuff a ton more than I have any of the actual 4 races we've done.

In SCCA driving infractions are handled in several ways. We don't really cut the course anyway because it kills your car, well except for jumping turn 3 at Road Atlanta, but for bad driver conduct or contact there is a formal protest process. You write it up with your complaint and bring evidence such as our in car cameras as well as any witness statements. Go the chief steward, and they review it. Then they call the other driver and give him a chance to defend himself. Punishment comes via points on your license, fines, DQs, or a combination of all up to and including being banned for a year. However, the way they want the protest to work is that the two drivers work it out man to man like gentlemen. SCCA won't initiate paperwork, has to be done by one of the involved parties.
Most of the time it can be worked out between men but repeat offenses involving the same driver generally go to the full protest. In our case just saying sorry on the mic or by PM or something from the guy that punted you out of the race, or the other one who took a ridiculous pass attempt in the chicane and punted you into the sand trap would probably go a long way.
Regarding car legality- top 4-5 of every race go to impound. While your car is there getting weighed anyone who entered that race can protest your car formally. And do. And cars get found cheating and DQ'd. Sometimes the race stewards even "impound all" as we come off the track and go on a witch hunt looking over everything.
 
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I haven't really noticed anyone's car being faster than mine, and if someone does walk away from me, it's always my own fault since I seem to goof up quite often. Keep the series going, it's been a blast....thanks again for the hard work Turbo!

Egghead, if you get caught in real life with a cheated up car you get fined (I believe), I never cheated or had the big loot to build my car to the max gray area so I wasn't concerned with the cost of a technical infraction. With respect to course cutting, the only track I can really think of is Daytona where someone can blow the bus stop, if this happens the corner workers will call you in and you will be black flagged, which in essence is the same as a 4 second penalty for cutting a corner in GT5, except GT5's penalty is much more lenient.

I am all for keeping the cars as close to the real spec just like everyone else, but to add to what TT said, if we allow all mods (except weight and hp) no one can cheat to an advantage. The cars will have better gearboxes and diffs, maybe even a carbon fiber driveshaft...it's all good if everyone has the same equipment, these extra bolt on's won't hurt the integrity of the series, but may even make the racing closer.

Now I am going to get all extreme on you guys with respect to keeping the series as real as possible.... I say we kill the voice chat, add corner cutting penalties, and add the most extreme damage. I can say with confidence that I would have completed both races without one ounce of damage needed to limp back to the pits, nor would have had one off course time penalty. I'm not saying I'm the best driver out there, which clearly I am not, but I drive with respect and give people room, so in my humble opinion adding the extreme damage "should" limit the amount of low percentage moves some have complained about.

I feel for turbo as I run a business in real life, and the worst thing you can do is ask for opinions as you will be flooded with more input than you can deal with, so please take my suggestions as a grain of salt. I will be there for every race in the series, I've had a great time so far and appreciate all the hard work Turbo has invested in this new series.

Turbo, please keep the series running and keep up the great work! 👍
 
Egghead43
I had a front row seat 👍

At first I thought I would be safe if I stayed on the line, but I ended up having to veer to the right to avoid the collision as he snapped back.

I snapped a few shots from the replay:

The mistake:

NrburgringGP_D_16.jpg


The resulting excitement:

NrburgringGP_D_11.jpg


NrburgringGP_D_10.jpg


NrburgringGP_D_9.jpg


NrburgringGP_D_8.jpg
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Spyhunter....could you feel the flat spots through the force feedback on your wheel? :dopey:

Just kidding...trying to lighten the mood. :)
 
Egghead43
Well definitely don't cancel anything :grumpy:, we would probably just go on without you anyways :lol:

The penalty system in the game is a bit lacking, so that's not my first choice. Besides, it's still possible to gain time by cutting even with the penalties on on certain tracks.
Since we're modeling this series after the real Spec Miata series, and we have a few real life Spec Miata racers in this series, how does the SCCA deal with infractions? I'm specifically referring to driving infractions, illegal cars are a different story at this point with the limited options the game currently gives us.
I would assume that a complaint is filed with the race officials, and it is investigated from there. We could implement a similar system here. If an obvious infraction is witnessed, it's up to someone to report it and the replay can be reviewed. There could also be random replay reviews for blatant course cutting, etc.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents :)
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I posted about a similar system for the SuperGT series ran on here.

Basically, if a person is protested, it is the person's responsibility to prove him or herself free of the charge. Until that is done, then the protested person is guilty. So it's EVERY driver's responsibility to save the replays and prove legality and what not.

A protested driver could supply a small video taken through a phone with a brief description as to what happened. This, of course, is done on a case by case basis.


Turbo - I'm surprised you mentioned the quitting thing. Sarcastic or not people probably had their jaws dropped at that comment. Look at our thread. It has over 1100 replies. This series is a success and the process now is to keep it a success. You even told me that you didn't expect this series to be of this caliber so it's to be expected that there are short comings with people taking advantage in every little way as possible as it is done in real life also. Just know you're not the only one who wants to keep this series alive and well. You've got a bunch of us to back you up. 👍


I have a suggestion to keep legality between cars. I haven't explored this option yet but we could share cars between each other. The obvious pro is that legality is kept. Some cons include the lack if individualism as cars are the same color and an organized structure of sharing cars which includes designated "host cars" and have everyone competing add the host to their friends list.
 
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You have a disadvantage and a huge advantage over SCCA.

Disadvantage: SCCA has corner workers who call in to race control when things don't look right. Course cutting, passing under the yellow and body contact. The game doesn't allow for 8 to 10 corner stations of safety workers.

Huge advantage: You have instant replay. SCCA kinda does too, if you happen to be carrying in-car video - most of us do. A protest is filed and the race officials must use witness reports and video to come to concrete conclusions.
 
filphil89
I posted about a similar system for the SuperGT series ran on here.

Basically, if a person is protested, it is the person's responsibility to prove him or herself free of the charge. Until that is done, then the protested person is guilty. So it's EVERY driver's responsibility to save the replays and prove legality and what not.

A protested driver could supply a small video taken through a phone with a brief description as to what happened. This, of course, is done on a case by case basis.


Turbo - I'm surprised you mentioned the quitting thing. Sarcastic or not people probably had their jaws dropped at that comment. Look at our thread. It has over 1100 replies. This series is a success and the process now is to keep it a success. You even told me that you didn't expect this series to be of this caliber so it's to be expected that there are short comings with people taking advantage in every little way as possible as it is done in real life also. Just know you're not the only one who wants to keep this series alive and well. You've got a bunch of us to back you up. 👍


I have a suggestion to keep legality between cars. I haven't explored this option yet but we could share cars between each other. The obvious pro is that legality is kept. Some cons include the lack if individualism as cars are the same color and an organized structure of sharing cars which includes designated "host cars" and have everyone competing add the host to their friends list.
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I'm all for sending friend invites to each person in group A for a swap after the race, although I'm still sure people could figure out ways around shipping off a hopped up car. I really haven't driven next to anyone yet that I even suspected of cheating.

While I'm on topic I wanted to thank Scepter_ for a fun race last night, when I exited the pits he was right there and we were nose to tail for the last 20 laps....our cars even look like they have the same paint code from the replays. Early in the race I had a hard fought battle with TT97, Sam, Wardez, and Graham Turismo, somehow I broke the draft and got away from the pack, we had fun, but our group was losing time to the lead packs up front. Once I got away I was able to maintain good sector times to El Z, then after the pit Septer_ and I worked together to gain a little time on Spyhunter and Egghead, but not enough to attack....just enough time to see them. Like the others have said in this thread, in any race it's all about finishing close to the front, in the early stages drive like hell, work together, then race hard the last few laps.

Thanks again for the fun racing last night guys!
 
SpecMiata-JSW
I'm all for sending friend invites to each person in group A for a swap after the race, although I'm still sure people could figure out ways around shipping off a hopped up car. I really haven't driven next to anyone yet that I even suspected of cheating.

While I'm on topic I wanted to thank Scepter_ for a fun race last night, when I exited the pits he was right there and we were nose to tail for the last 20 laps....our cars even look like they have the same paint code from the replays. Early in the race I had a hard fought battle with TT97, Sam, Wardez, and Graham Turismo, somehow I broke the draft and got away from the pack, we had fun, but our group was losing time to the lead packs up front. Once I got away I was able to maintain good sector times to El Z, then after the pit Septer_ and I worked together to gain a little time on Spyhunter and Egghead, but not enough to attack....just enough time to see them. Like the others have said in this thread, in any race it's all about finishing close to the front, in the early stages drive like hell, work together, then race hard the last few laps.

Thanks again for the fun racing last night guys!
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Assuming that a person can only share their cars between six people, we can still get around that.

Say Turbo ships his car to 6 people. That means six people can use THAT car, while turbo himself cannot. You would have one of the six people who turbo sent his car to build the car to the exact legal specs and share it with another 6 people, one being turbo. That way turbo's legal car would be out and the car sent to the other six people can be checked.

I'm not sure if you can limit people to that car though. As I've said, I didn't experiment with this yet.
 
Driver shuffle, YES or NO.

I've put together a new list for each group, re-arranging each driver into the group I believe that they belong in based on performance and points position. If you are on the fence about this, I can post the lists for everyone else to decide.
 
i think the event is great at it is. just relax guys and have fun. that is what is about.its just a game after all.
 
What do you mean by driver shuffle? Is that what was previously mentioned about having two competition rooms, but no designated groups? Is it a first come first serve basis?


I'd like to stay in group B as I'm hardly a match for anyone in the current A roster, lol.
 
Screw it, here's the list:

Room A:
  • iamjamen
  • R1600Turbo
  • EL_ZISSOU
  • Egghead43
  • SpecMiata-JSW
  • vanos2990
  • LVSX4MZ3
  • Samhain85
  • filphil89
  • GrahamTurismo
  • Dr Wankel
  • Imari
  • Spyhunter

Room B
  • Wardez
  • Jay_B_II
  • motortrend
  • sonic-_-89b
  • AlGreene71
  • apradel
  • anorexicroadstr
  • tt997
  • fitftw
  • the stig14
  • tsnacks
  • Duke
  • kona309
  • adeadsnipermatt

filphil: Based on your current points tally, you would be in Room A.
 
I'm sure you thought of this, but doesn't this effectively change the points structure of the series if it were taken in to effect?
 
filphil89
I'm sure you thought of this, but doesn't this effectively change the points structure of the series if it were taken in to effect?
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Yup. Makes it closer. 👍
 
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