GTP_WRS-Online Event 9: Arigatou Mr Stephenson

Discussion in 'WRS-OE Archive' started by Gravitron, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Argon

    Argon Premium

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    I know I shouldn't but :lol::lol::lol:

    Great race mate and I did my best to keep you at bay but you were way too good for me, bad buttons or not:cheers:
     
  2. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    For the most part, if the swear filter does strike it out (and you don't intentionally bypass the swear filter), it's not really a profanity in here. The only other exceptions are unique combinations of words and profanity that are not explicitly ruled out.

    The only reason for that is that our swear filter does not strike out words like mi****, we are not PSN. But should you decide to type something like :censored:show, that's on you. ;)

    Unless you were talking about something you said in a party chat, which is pretty much fair game. :lol:
     
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  3. Argon

    Argon Premium

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    Thanks for the race tonight @Speedy6543 I know we had a little chat in the room about this with @Nail but I really don't understand why these aren't completely over-booked. I wish I knew what the answer was to get more participation but for me at least, I can't wait for the next one

    Thanks everyone that was great fun :cheers:
     
  4. Speedy6543

    Speedy6543 Moderator

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    Results EU

    Quali
    Gran Turismo™SPORT_20180131212041.jpg

    Race results
    20180131_223706.jpg

    Fastest laps
    Gran Turismo™SPORT_20180131222935.jpg
     
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  5. Fastas

    Fastas Premium

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    Thanks again for waiting guys. Much appreciated. :tup:
    I was hoping for a rematch with Joe and to see Bart but, can’t help but think I’d have been lower down the order. I really enjoyed the blast out on this combo one last time.
    I ran a six speed box and changed from a 3-stop to a 2 and, really enjoyed it. I’m puzzled too as to why these races aren’t more popular yet, they should be! Great racing all. :cheers:
     
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  6. GTP_Nail

    GTP_Nail Premium

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    but I really don't understand why these aren't completely over-booked. I wish I knew what the answer was to get more participation but for me at least, I can't wait for the next one

    IMHO there are three main reasons. ONE: some people are good or great TTers but lack the race craft to race. And since they don't, and won't try, they never will. (a self fulfilling prophecy)TWO: FEAR....it is VERY intimidating to show up, with the current speed level of our normal players, and not really know what to do and even more intimidating is the the "God don't let me :censored: this up" syndrome. THREE: my connection is not good enough to allow me to race online. (we have guys racing from the Antipodes on wi-fi so that excuse needs to be tested). There is a very simple solution, IMHO, Make them race. Make participation in the TT conditional on racing one race per month,quarter, whatever. If you do not race you will be: demoted,banned until you do, whipped with limp spaghetti...whatever. Yes its something else to check and yes I volunteer to help (for the 4 thousandth time). And for number three:Show up and we'll see how bad that wi-fi is and get some help fixing set ups if necessary.

    This is a GREAT combo...not to be confused with big car on little track(Corvette racing in a fish bowl :lol:) and this weeks little car on big track:irked: (with time to read the paper on the straights)...so why is no one here.....because they won't or they are intimidated. Lets fix it....it was really boring today as I was best of the rest when Quentin fell off :sly:....I actually lost track of where I was because I was daydreaming and I fell into the sand trap at the 18th hole :sick:.
     
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  7. Storm_SP17

    Storm_SP17

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    Relating to the races; forcing people's hand by implementing conditions that affect participating in the TT is counter-intuitive.

    One idea would be to have lobbies running 30 mins apart with one tailoring more to the D1s and the other for D2s and below. Guarantees one lobby has the lack of intimidation should people feel that way.

    Another would be to open up the tyre compounds respective to Division: D1s on Hards, D2 Mediums, D3 Softs etc... it occured to me the tyre compounds aren't as vastly different in performance on GTSport as they've been on GT5 and GT6. They are, however, different enough to simulate a race-equivalent to the Hanicapped Results in the TT.

    Edit ~ my idea on compound rules:
    D1G - D2G: RH
    D2S - D3S: RM
    D3B - D4B: RS

    This means nobody uses RSS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  8. mr_lab_rat

    mr_lab_rat

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    Sorry, I can’t make it tonight. This really is an awesome combo and I loved the WW race. I hope you get enough drivers.
     
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  9. Mini Stiggy

    Mini Stiggy Premium

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    Yeah, I wish I was there. Had practice at 5 in the morning so I was tired and slept right through the race:lol:
     
  10. Gravitron

    Gravitron Moderator

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    Gonna be late, i should make it before quali but if someone else wants to host to get some practice, go for it.
     
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  11. MadMax

    MadMax Moderator

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    NA room is open: 0474-5998-8302-4205-4212
     
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  12. Speedy6543

    Speedy6543 Moderator

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    The main reason why these races aren't over-booked is probably the intimidation factor.
    Question is how can we get people to overcome their stage fear?
    I know I still think to myself during the formationlap, 'keep it clean, don't run off, don't outbrake in the first turn,...' and all kinds of other things that can go wrong on the first lap which could destroy someone else's race.
    Maybe we should set up the practice lobby Tuesday evening again. Doing shorter practice races helps people getting used to racing with others around them and with only a 5 lap practice race the fear of doing something wrong should be much less.
    The thing is from my end, I don't always have time to start up my PS4 and host an EU practice lobby Tuesdays....
     
  13. Espial

    Espial

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    I would add a FOUR:
    The time factor. I just don't have the time to run an over 1h event starting at 2000 GMT (which is 2100 my local time) on a weekday. I have to get up early for work every day + I got other stuff to do at home. Not to mention to start in a race like that I would need some practice to figure out tire wear, fuel usage, strategy etc. which would cost even more time.
    On saturday evenings I like to go out, or at least drink a beer or 5 at home, making me not very suitable for racing ;)
    I would very much like to join a race with you guys as it sounds like a lot of fun but I just don't have the time to do so.

    Most of the racing that I do happens between 1700-1900 GMT.
     
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  14. nico4711

    nico4711

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    I must agree. Its late for me too on a weekday. I can make it only every two weeks, maybe less. I would appreciate if we could have an EU race on weekend afternoon GMT.
     
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  15. Storm_SP17

    Storm_SP17

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    The first question should be where does the intimidation factor come from?.... my guess would be the pace of the top tier guys, the other being (as you point out) the racecraft amongst who you race and the level confidence people have in their own.

    The time factor does play a big part; TTs have the benefit of letting you laps when you have the time to do them.

    These WRS races need not be so intensely monitored for their tyre and fuel strats, its not like a scored series in that respect. I turned up to race 5 mins before Quali, no idea of even what tyre or fuel wear levels were in place... ballsed up royally and still came out with a decent finish to the race. Did the same two weeks ago as well.
     
  16. Argon

    Argon Premium

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    @Nail @Storm_SP17 @Speedy6543 @Espial

    For me there is no doubt that the intimidation thing is a big part and it sounds like we just need to offer a product that might help to overcome that and maybe host races just for the lower divisions as a sort of half race half teach in sort of thing. Let the D2 & D1 guys come in and maybe buddy up with a D3/D4 and it's the combined result of the two man team that counts in the race so no one is left out.

    The results isn't actually the key object of the races it's that they are there to teach race craft by example and gets folks comfortable with getting on track and having a go in one of our regular races. I also like the idea of allowing the lower division drivers an easier ride with tyre choice but wonder if that would cancel out the benefit of lines, braking point, turn in tips and examples using the mandated race tyre? Maybe the sessions could be heavier on practice/warm up and less on the actual race because that would give time to pas on tip etc.

    We could still have the normal races but maybe once a month do one of these specials or if we had the extra capacity run them once every couple of weeks?

    EDIT: One more thought and all of this is just spit balling....If we juggled the timing on the release of the new TT's a little bit the teach in sessions could give the D4/D3 & D2 runners some hands on experience for them on how to tackle the TT, might be an incentive to participate but not sure how well that would go down.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  17. Storm_SP17

    Storm_SP17

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    That post gives off the slightest impression that D1 and D2 know how to race and D3 and D4 don't; these WRS division ranks, must I remind, are an indicator of raw pace only. They do NOT attribute themselves to racecraft and skill in a racing situation, nor consistency, nor skill at strategy, nor actual race pace.

    It'd be an insult to D3 & D4 guys to assume they can't do racecraft better than a D1 or D2 and that they have to buddy up and learn from them. Therefore I don't really like that as a suggestion...

    The reason I brought up Tyre Compounds idea before is to give some degree of handicap, close the gap on pace, hopefully resulting in more close racing and opportunity to learn racecraft in tight packs. There is no 2 second a lap difference anymore between each compound... thankfully in GTS you'd be lucky to see 2 seconds across 3 compound sets.

    My earlier post was contradictory as I mentioned not excluding people but then I hinted at an idea that exclude D1s from a particular room.

    The more UK friendly room during the early afternoon GMT on a Saturday is a decent shout. Would mean 2 Saturday and 2 Wednesday lobbies...
     
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  18. Speedy6543

    Speedy6543 Moderator

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    Double the races?
    For me personally, the more races the better. Only and biggest downside is that there has to be enough attendence to host such an amount of races. And that we need enough stewards to host them. Hosting a lobby of 3 to 4 participants isn't any fun. We used to have full lobby's and I would like to try and get that back.

    I'll take some time and whip out a poll/suggestion thread in the TT section. This way we can have more peoples reason to why they are not racing online and what it would take for them to try it out. Split lobby's, mix tyres compounds, different hours, ...
     
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  19. Argon

    Argon Premium

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    Not my intention, sorry.

    Don't completely agree because the ranking must also be symptomatic of new guys coming into a new hobby and finding it hard to get good advice. Just saying both views hold merit but maybe we overlook the fact that we have a lot of new faces coming in that are as keen as mustard but don't know how to refine their skill and being thrown into an OLR where a bunch of high performing D1 and D2 guys run is very intimidating. It's also intimidating for D2 runners as well!

    The suggestion from @Speedy6543 should help determine what's needed.
     
  20. Koutch_Pro

    Koutch_Pro

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    Perhaps a view from a "newbie" could be usefull in this.

    The whole reason I got GT online is to race online. But, ingame, the expierence i get is not racing, its random arcade like racing. I would love to do some races with you guys, didn't see the announcement. Because I really want to do clean/fair racing olr. With you guys, I know that this is like minded and the basis of all of it.

    Intimidated, no, I'm not. Raced go carts 20+ years ago (against Max Verstappen his dad). Its kind of difficult finding everything wich would suite me, even on this forum. There is a uncertainty factor personally though witch is based on the unexpierence with the settings (no asm/tc etc), having no steeringwheel/pedal setup.

    Apart from that, I just want to get better, get more feeling with a tune up, driving others cars etc etc. Oh, and offcourse RACE.
    If there is anny possibility in hopping in a race(series) then yes please.
    I'd read a different post from zolon or argon i think where he talked about a series combining "newbies" with more seasoned drivers, yes please!
    Get them in a room / shareplay and coatch them during racing. Sort of a gentlemans cup.
     
  21. Speedy6543

    Speedy6543 Moderator

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    So what do you mean exactly with 'didn't see the announcement'?
    Did you find your way to this part of WRS and are willing to join next race?
     
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  22. Storm_SP17

    Storm_SP17

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    I know, no apology needed @Argon... I didn't mean to sound so judgmental.

    The element in WRS Races of allowing new and experienced drivers to race together is already there for the Saturday and Wednesday events, although its different to the idea of partnering up new and experienced guys.

    The point I was getting at was WRS TTs rank people on their one-lap pace, doesn't factor in race-only aspects such as consistency, racecraft and critical thinking.

    That said there surely isn't anything stopping us from having volunteers for "consultant" roles. People that know how the mechanics works or how to refine skills, how to prepare for races or how to execute good racecraft. Just names we can put in the OP as people who are willing to accept PMs from members for tips.

    @Koutch_Pro do you use a controller by any chance?
     
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  23. Koutch_Pro

    Koutch_Pro

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    I didn't find my way to this part of wrs (forum is quite large), and I would love to join next race(s) or annyother series.
    Thinking about it, I did see the crampons not needed, even watched the vid from dutchy. Then made my way into the time trial, not realizing the other side of wrs.

    @Storm_SP17* ; Yup, just the standard ds4
     
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  24. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    Many good ideas and theories on participation (and a few crazy ones as well :sly: )

    It's ultimately up to us as organizers to figure a lot of this out. But I will provide my perspective as well, since what we do from a TT perspective is the engine that drives these online races.

    Remember that our online races were really initially a grassroots effort from 3 guys in Division 3 (3D3) who wanted to organize weekly online race events that used the same combo as our TT's. It was immediately successful, and grew in participation and breadth over time. The basic premise was a successful one, no matter the combo. Those guys were recruited to staff to run WRS Online, and this forum was born.

    We're not going to start setting up combos to suit online racing alone. Every race is not going to be a race car at a real world circuit. We use the entire breadth of cars, tracks, and race types available, in an effort to fully utilize the game, help drivers improve their skills, and to create broad appeal.

    From my perspective, these are the things that are impacting the participation. Some of these we can influence, some we cannot:

    1. Marketing - I featured the WRS on the front page in weeks 1 and 3 of the TT, and highlighted the online races at the same time. The threads were admittedly less organized at that time, and we'll be giving WRS a lot more front page exposure in the very near future. The 15th anniversary of WRS is coming up later this month, and we have a very special TT along with an exciting online special event in the works. This, in and of itself, should increase our participation in a big way. In the meantime, I will begin cross posting the Online event thread with a redirect in the TT forum for awareness each week. And all of you can help market by encouraging your fellow participants to join us.
    2. Increase the size of our TT pool - You guys might not be picking up on this, but our TT pool is smaller than it was, even at the start of GT6. The first few weeks had about 60% of GT6 participation levels, but we (and the game platform) have done a better job of hanging onto participation, and we are currently 80% of GT6. Our registry pool of drivers is about half the size that GT6 was initially. Keep in mind, TT's began sooner than they did on either GT5 or GT6, and we had no qualifier. So people are not yet bored of what the game has to offer. More theories around that in point 5 below.
    3. Make races approachable for new participants - We used to have a "Rookie School" at times on GT5 and GT6, in which we opened up the WW race lobby up to 2 hours prior to the beginning of the actual race. And we would have new drivers pair up with experienced drivers, who would coach them in on online racing. We can do that again, but we need some interested folks to step up. This does not even have to be formally organized, remember that. Even if you guys want to make a thread in here to say "I am going to do this, at this time, on this day", whether that's Saturday before the TT, or not - Do it. You don't have to wait for us to help build the participant pool.
    4. Race Times - The times are built to suit the organizers. We've done surveys in the past to ask membership what they prefer. We've added the WW event (there were originally ONLY Wednesday races). We at one point even had a third Wednesday TT for the Asia/Pacific (Aussie) time zone(s). Again, if people are interested in specific times, and in potentially organizing for those times, speak up. We're not going to run you off. Remember, this began as a grass roots series that was user organized.
    5. Sport Mode and the Game Platform - This last one is my theory on part of the impact to #2. I believe with the new game, people have more things to focus on. They want to level up their driver rating, do some credit gathering for cars, and Sport Mode/PD Organized events are the way to do that. It's likely giving many people enough to do. And secondary theory is that maybe Sport Mode is scaring people out of online racing entirely. Have you guys been in those lobbies?
    In any case, there's no silver bullet here. We'll focus on points 1 and 2. The members can potentially help with 3 and 4. And there's nothing we can do about point 5.

    If you guys have suggestions on 1 and 2, we'll listen. If you have ideas on 3 and 4, feel free to execute.

    We'll allow point 5 to take care of itself.
     
  25. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    I originally came in here today to make a race report, and the thread conversation got me off on a tangent. In any case, had some great racing last night with @turnupdaheat @suprajef and @Gravitron .

    I made a mistake in qualifying on my first flyer at Dunlop, so had to play it safe on the second lap to get a banker. As a result, I was about half a second off my potential in a 2 lap qualifier, and started in 3rd behind GTP_Pokey and turnupdaheat.

    Once in the race, I figured out I had some pace on turnupdaheat in general, and especially on the straights. He'll have to tell me if that might have been gearing, aero, or exit speed. I was running ~520 rear aero, so slightly trimmed out, and a 6 speed transmission, which generally was faster in a straight line than trying to use a 7 speed. I also of course shifted at 50% on the HUD shift meter, so that could have been a factor, although I doubt it based on his TT placement.

    In any case, we had a clean side by side through 130R on lap 3 or 4, and then that allowed me to stay close to him through Casio and make the pass on the main straight going into turn 1. He left lots of room and was some good side by side action. :tup:

    A lap later, I made the same mistake at Dunlop I made in Qualifying, bad line going in, too early on the throttle, greedy at the exit trying to maintain full throttle and spun to the inside barrier.

    At that point, turnupdaheat and Gravitron both passed me. I decided right then to undercut on lap 7 and short fill the car to 8 laps, leaving me with a 9 lap final stint.

    Having completed that first stop strategy, I came out behind @MadMax by 3-4 seconds. GTP_Pokey made his stop and came out between us. MadMax held Pokey up enough to allow me to catch up to both of them, and then MadMax made a mistake at Casio a lap or so later and we both got by.

    I managed to remain within 0.5 to 1.5 seconds of Pokey for the entire stint, and pitted at the end of lap 15 with around half a lap of fuel left.

    Ultimately, with the longer fuel fill in the second stop, I shook out around 10 seconds behind Pokey and 2.5 seconds ahead of turnupdaheat once their stops were done. turnupdaheat was on an overcut strategy and so had a 6 or 7 lap final stint, to my 9 laps. I knew it would be important to maintain as much gap as I could early in the stint to have it when I would be more vulnerable at the end.

    He uses controller, I noticed he was the same or better than me in sector 1, I was better in sector 2, he was often better through spoon, and I was normally better until the end of the lap. At times, we would trade 3-5 tenths back and forth throughout the lap.

    Ultimately, he brought it down to around 1.5 seconds for most of the stint, then closed to about 1.0 with 2 laps left. I focused on just hitting my marks, no mirror watching, and figured with a straightline speed advantage and that kind of gap, it was going to be tough for him. He said in the lobby after the race that his last lap was a bit sloppy, and I pulled it back out to around 1.7 seconds by the end of race. But it was a very intense race overall, especially that final stint, along with working hard to stay close to Pokey in stint 2.

    Without that mistake in Dunlop, I might have been able to Give Pokey a little more pressure, but I think the outcome would have been the same, unless I could have forced a mistake.

    Good racing guys. :tup:

    :cheers:
    Kevin
     
  26. Koutch_Pro

    Koutch_Pro

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    @EDK , thank you for that background info, I fully understand and do agree on that.

    Maybe a thought on point 2, Perhaps pull off some marketing tactics into gt online. Like more sharing each other gtplanet wrs liveries/race replay's etc. That doesn't cost a lot of extra time, its just anoying to do with a ds4. That is why I make my race shots etc and share them. When players are looking for a more organized form of racing, every bit of "indoctrination" helps.
     
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  27. nico4711

    nico4711

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    4.:
    I would suggest shifting the EU race to Saturday or Sunday between 12:00 and 16:00 GMT.
     
  28. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    You do realize that's 5-9 am in my time zone, right? :lol: I get up at 5:30 on the weekdays, but most of us like to get a little extra sleep on Saturday.

    We could potentially have a second race on Saturday, but the point of WW is making it a workable time zone for most of the world.

    Not trying to gun you down, just thinking about the fact that we have guys in Pacific time (which would make that 4-8 am start time) and it basically becomes a Saturday EU race with what you are suggesting. ;)

    EDIT: I recommend if you think that would work, creating an interest check thread with a poll in here, to see if there might be other times folks are interested in for Saturday. The drawback could be a diluted pool, and small grids for both.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  29. Storm_SP17

    Storm_SP17

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    Nice report! I stropped off straight after the race because of the mess I made of it, so I didn't save my replay. :lol: I can laugh about it now, but I was not a happy bunny!
     
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  30. EDK

    EDK Moderator

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    I made the report from memory. ;)

    But I did save my replay. :)

    Been there, I still am a bit upset with myself for the Dunlop errors, but this was the most complete WRS Online race I've had on GT Sport. As I recall, I did OK in the week 1 also, but still not to my standard. I expect mistake free racing from myself.
     
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