GTPlanet Vintage Tuner Cup Ideas

To keep things "fair", you may have to work out some kind of "handicapping" system.
As an AC Cobra vs Lotus Elan is not exactly a fair match up.

What I used to do in the distant past, was keep power/weight ratios similar to keep things close to fair.

That is certainly easier in a "tuner" series.
If you are going for an arcade tuner series, things get a bit more complicated.
People would actually have to do their own math.:lol:
 
Gil
To keep things "fair", you may have to work out some kind of "handicapping" system.
As an AC Cobra vs Lotus Elan is not exactly a fair match up.

What I used to do in the distant past, was keep power/weight ratios similar to keep things close to fair.

That is certainly easier in a "tuner" series.
If you are going for an arcade tuner series, things get a bit more complicated.
People would actually have to do their own math.:lol:
Click to expand...

I don't think they'd be in the same category anyway. If someone makes a car the handling, fun factor and improvement on stock are the major criteria for judging.;)
 
True, but if displacement is not an issue, only year of manufacture, p/w ratio helps keep everyone "honest".👍

Believe me, in some of the testing I've done, you can get together a number of cars with a 100,000 credit limit (for instance) and get pretty widely different levels of performance.
 
Classic Tuner's Cup Entry 1967 FR

2000gt.jpg


Well here it is, now even more fun! Honed in the Tuner Challenge: V2 this car is built to give you the most simple and pleasurable day at the track you could possibly have.

I built it because I was struck by the nearly indescribable physical beauty of this vintage sports car, but the performance was all around 1960's... Something had to be done. The engine came first, and little things helped, but more was needed. After some time I devised a turbocharger to go on the small 2L inline six. With reworking and massaging power output rose from 147 to an astounding 287hp! Nearly DOUBLE! With the help of Rotary Junkie from Rec'n Race Vehicles the suspension was further honed from my initial efforts to amazing effect.

After the challenge though I found that there were edges I left unpolished, things I knew could be done better. I set to work, and much to my surprise I found even more power! Output increased to 295hp! Just over double the original spec! Further work was invested into the transmission and I must say that the balance and spacing is very, very good. The more mature drivetrain parts have made the car even sharper than before. Weight had already been reduced, but I knew I had to go further. I set about replicating the body panels of the car, but with lighter materials and even then I couldn't stop! (Once I get on a task I am like that...) I began work on the actual chassis, shaving here and there, adding support beams and carefully calculating forces and weight. Astoundingly the car now tips the scale 67kg, or 147lbs lighter! That's 135kg (or 297lbs) lighter than stock!

Extra set of S2s is included due to popular demand and endurance on slightly longer races.

Red 1967 Toyota 2000GT

Drivetrain: FR
Weight: 985kg
Engine: L6 DOHC Turbo
Displacement: 1988cc
Power: 295hp/6600rpm
Torque: 229.3ftlb/5000rpm

Modifications:
Racing Exhaust
Racing Brakes
Port and Polish
Engine Balancing
Racing Chip
Full Custom Trans
Triple Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Limited Slip Full Custom
Carbon Driveshaft
Stage 2 Turbo
Full Custom Suspension
Stage 3 Lightening
Rigidity increase
S3 Tires (Includes S2's as optional fitment.)

Settings:

Suspension
Spring Rate: 6.5/7.0
Ride Height: 130/130
Shock Bound: 4/4
Shock Rebound: 5/5
Camber: 3.0/2.5
Toe: 0/0
Stabilizers: 5/5

Limited Slip
Initial Torque: 10
Accel: 30
Decel: 10

Transmission
First set transmission auto-set 11
Then 1st to 2.350


Now get out there and enjoy.

(May be subject to small changes up until closing of entrants.)
 
Gil
True, but if displacement is not an issue, only year of manufacture, p/w ratio helps keep everyone "honest".👍

Believe me, in some of the testing I've done, you can get together a number of cars with a 100,000 credit limit (for instance) and get pretty widely different levels of performance.
Click to expand...

Since it's not all just laptimes I don't think we'll need to worry too much.
 
This car beat my CIEN on S tyres for handling and fun, I suppose I'll have to try it, would you like a review?
 
Sure, I can reciprocate with a review, but I can't really pop out requests unfortunately, just post in in the Tuner's Challenge for now I guess. I have no garage thread.
 
CirclesCenter
Sure, I can reciprocate with a review, but I can't really pop out requests unfortunately, just post in in the Tuner's Challenge for now I guess. I have no garage thread.
Click to expand...

Lol, I didn't expect to request a car, I'm just looking to help buddy, see if I can help you make your car better.
 
And everyone, hold off on posting your entries in this thread - Kent's volunteered to host it in the Tuner Garage thread once the current challenge is over, so this thread is just for ideas. CC, there's nothing wrong with posting it here too if you like, just wanted to save people effort ;-)
 
I just thought I'd give a miniature race report with regards to my C1 Corvette that displays its potential. I decided to take it for a race at Laguna Seca in the all Japan GT championship against the JGTC cars, with the same sport tyres it has now and the maxed out 373hp. This was fun as I get nailed on every straight meaning I have to overtake in corners each time. I'll tell you now I didn't win, came second but for a 1954 car on sport tyres? Yes, I think that's an accomplishment. I could get past each car fairly easily including a Motul Pitwork Z who was held up by slower guys. Once I got to second there was no catching a Xanavi GT-R out in front, he was too quick. It didn't end there though, by the final laps my tyres were beginning to hurt and the Motul Pitwork Z had made its way through the pack. Because of tyre wear and feeling the pressure on the left-hander before the straight leading to the cork-screw I ran wide into the sand and the Z passed me. I had to work hard as this was the final lap to catch up and by the final corner left hander I was close enough to overtake under brakes. Naturally though I needed to do some blocking on the run to the finish due to a lack of straightline speed. So yes, I'd say that was an accomplishment.
BTW, just on the race car category, do you think power should be limited to around 700hp?
 
600bhp is already quite of a handful, even with AWD if we stick to sportstyres.. but I'd also say that the tyres should be limited to certain weight bracket.. like 1200kg+ would have S3's, 650kg-1200 would have S2 and under 650 would have S1.. just to even out the odds.
 
Some possible entries from me...

Free for all race class: Lancia Stratos Rally Car '73
1900-1963: Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale '63
1964-1973: Lotus Europa Special '71
1974-1980: Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR '74
1981-1988: RUF BTR '86
 
The tire handicapping wouldn't be such a bad idea, IF some of the superlightweights didn't have such extreme handling characteristics. Some are stable, but if you start crossing into Europas and Alpines and the like, S1's are going to kill some test drivers :scared:
 
Pfft.. my Alpine has more direction holding ability than some 4wd's.. but my Fiat 500? not so much. that thing is a riot in the corners :D
 
Interesting stuff in here, although the concept of the challenge might need some refinement. Can't think of anything myself atm, I need sleep, it's just to express myself and "spark some conversation" ;).
 
hmmm.. I might open it up at some point, especially if there's more twisty track. still, that thing IS faster than LMS Elise, TK ZZ-S, and beats some bigger 500bhp+ cars. it's a real all rounder..
 
I dunno, my Corvette already has S3 tyres, any less and I MAY start getting wheelspin, it's good at the moment though. I guess whatever rules are made I shall follow, maybe there won't be restrictions in the end, maybe we should keep it as broad as possible to attract entrants and judges.;)
 
Getting back to this '87 vs '88 debate, I actually disagree with something you said a while back CraftyLandShark. Your comment about the Supra being part of this watershed period. 2 points came up to me:

1. The '88 3.0 Turbo is LESS powerful than the 2.5 Turbo that's in the '90 model. Even when fully worked (yes, it is over 550hp), it's still a difficult package to handle on sports tyres, but it's not the only 500hp beast in that category, look at the Yellowbird.

2. The Japanese turbo era had already been in force for over 5yrs, there's 3 Skyline turbos, RX7 turbo, 300ZX turbo, Honda City Turbo, but no Supra turbo. Yes, you have the Mk2 '81 2800GT, but that's N/A and to be honest, it's a slug....even when fully worked, most of the 1970's cars would demolish it!!

And then to hint at exceptions for the IROC, it's a bit of poor form if you let some from that year and not all compete. '88 should be the cut off date and that's it, therefore there's no '89 GTR's or anything that will destroy the competition in 1 swoop in that category. There's still enough for us to choose from. :)

That's about it on that subject from me. As for the cars, I'll be testing tonight after I put my son to bed. :p Bring on the Lotus Esprit Turbo. :trouble:

Mafs!!
 
But the Supra's chassis is very capable and don't forget that I mentioned the XJR-9 race car that is an '88 model. I still think the cutoff should be '87 unless you can prove that '87 models can beat '88 models in a race around a track. The only 300ZX before '88 is an older generation and therefore more classic.
 
The 300ZX might be a different model (Z31 v Z32) but it still hits 600hp without a worry. I'll run the comparo between that and the Supra & IROC on our PM test track Holdenboy and I predict an '87 victory....by a fair margin, the pollution laws in '87 really kicked in for '88. I'll go ZX, then Esprit to make sure it's got something to go against for Japanese and Euro models.

And using the XJR-9's like comparing apples to oranges, it has almost no direct competition in it's class to compare against, maybe against the Sauber 9 from memory but that's about it.

Mafs!!
 
Power isn't the issue here, it's handling feel and the response it will have to tuning, you don't think the later models will respond better in particulary the Supra? The '88 Silvia K's will wipe out nearly everyone on handling even though none of these can be in the race category.
 
nd 4 holden spd
Power isn't the issue here, it's handling feel and the response it will have to tuning, you don't think the later models will respond better in particulary the Supra? The '88 Silvia K's will wipe out nearly everyone on handling even though none of these can be in the race category.
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The only reason the '88 K's will wipe out most of the road car comp is because you guys have already done that car to death!! :dopey::p

This is a chance for all those other cars that we wouldn't normally think about to get a chance. The '88 Supra falls in line with that theory.....most people would just go '97 Supra RZ for road racing, it's quicker and if you get it at 40000km it's almost as cheap as the '88 Supra w/60000+km on the clock!!

I'm just testing out the Esprit now, just checking the regulations we should stick to on this. I know S3 tyres and then it's all out balls out. :)

Umm, while I think about it....should we allow Nitrous to be fitted to certain (ie. earlier) categories??
 
Definitely no nitrous and I think that if we let in '88 cars the Silvias will still be entered, wouldn't it just be easier to exclude '88 models, what's a few cars at the risk of having an unfair competiton.

Edit: I'm definitely only entering my C1 Corvette and C3 Corvette now, I'll judge any categories they don't fit into. May I also propose now that only cars in the race category get wings (as well as race tyres).
 
I actually think I might agree with Mafs... I hadn't driven the 88 Supra recently until yesterday, and while it's very capable, it IS a handful under most circumstances. The Esprit will likely destroy it with more than 100 fewer horses. (Again, curses on you for stealing my '80s car LOL) The Silvia is really immaterial... it's very well balanced and fun but so are the MR2's, the Skylines and many others of the time. I do still think outlawing wings might not be the best idea also - a LOT of the cars that people likely want to enter are going to exhibit insane handling characteristics without them.
 

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