GTS credit grinding not ecological..

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Haitauer, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    Maybe PD should start discounting a lot of cars in-game by a large margin or give them away as prizes so that grinding just to get them won't be so tedious anymore.
     
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  2. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    Exactly :cheers: - but as you see linking this ecological view to it we get a lot of conversation. Just trying to draw attention to the problem. ;)
     
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  3. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    This option exists.

    It's called Assetto or Pcars.

    And those who want to moan about earning their cars can instead go and play it. Maybe they stay there and it leaves us real GT players to enjoy GT.

    Novel concept, I know :lol:
     
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  4. Woodybobs

    Woodybobs

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    China and USA lead the way in total emissions. Per capita, many western countries are ahead of China and India.
     
  5. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

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    This is certainly true. This is getting off topic but I hate how people in the west brush off any argument with "oh well China and India are worse so lets do nothing".

    However think about this... I live in a country with 25 mil. people. We produce enough food to feed our entire population PLUS 75 mil. people.

    So we produce enough food for 100 mil. people.

    I work in the production industry. We go thru an immense amount of water chemicals electricity gas consumeables non recyclables etc.

    So in fact we take on the pollution responsibilities of 100 mil. peoples' food.

    China has 1.2 bil. people. They need to feed 1.2 bil. people. THey have the responsibility to take care of the pollution of 1.2 billion people.

    What CHina does however is take on the responsibiltiy of producing your Playstations your phones your computers something like 50% of the compoenents of your cars.

    The vast majoirity of your personal items comes from China.

    So China is in fact, taking on the responsibility of the world's consumer goods and the pollution that comes from making it.

    You dont want to contributing to Chinese pollution? Stop buying Chinese consumer goods. Let's see how far you go. I do get that China makes a profit and they dont have to make all your consumer goods. That's just how it ended up.

    I have never been to China and I certainly do not support the Chinese govt. but its incredibly insulting to hear people spew "oh well China and India pollute more" while sitting on a chinese made laptop or smartphone and using a China made PS4 and all the other China goods and them somehow thinking that China can somehow pollute less with 1.2 billion people AND also underpinning Western capitalism.

    China and INdia want the same middle class life many of us enjoy. That's it. It sounds like Westerners want the developing world to stay 'developing' all the while reaping the benefits of cheap labor from those countries.

    The fact that each western person pollutes more per capita than a Chinese person all the while China makes all the goods we use is kind of hypocritical when Westerners sling that sort of accusation from behind a piece of Chinese technology.

    You produce food and things and consume = pollution.
     
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  6. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    The Credit System is so bloody good in GT Sport and it is so easy to get the cars you want by Grinding, and earning a 2 mill in 1 hour is outstanding.
     
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  7. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    10 hours to earn 1 car isn't a 'bloody good credit system'. It's an excruciatingly mind numbing credit system.

    If you're prepared to waste your game time with incessant grinding for unicorns, fair enough, but don't keep spouting the same nonsense (over and over and over) by assuming it suits everyone else. It doesn't.
     
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  8. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

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    It's quite simple really.

    PD had a decision to make ... an in-game economy or not?
    They chose an in-game economy.

    From that decision, when you have some cars literally costing 1000x more than other cars, you are left with deciding to either make the vast, vast majority of cars stupidly cheap (making the in-game economy pointless), or a select group of cars as 'unicorn' cars.

    The choice is obvious.

    So out of the now more than 300 cars there are 10 (or 15 if you consider 3mill. too expensive) cars that take a lot of driving to get.
    The remaining 290ish cars are extremely easy to earn.

    The argument here isn't about the economy, because for the vast majority of the game it's fine.
    The argument here is about the cost of 10 cars out of the current 300 odd car list.

    And those are two entirely different things.
     
  9. breeminator

    breeminator

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    That would only be true if those games were identical to GT Sport in every other way.
     
  10. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    GT Sport is still a GT game. The physics, the fact that cars cost credits, the low paying races versus the high paying ones et al.

    The only difference is that it has an FIA license this time and is geared more toward online play. But, one still has to earn those cars as it's not a 'pick up and play all cars' title. No GT ever has been.

    So for those who bring up the 2 games that have all cars available, (and I own both Pcars2 and Assetto Corsa), then all the power to them to enjoy that system.

    The fact remains that PD are clever enough to know people like to have longevity in their games. The credit system and low online payout grade is the way to keep players playing long term.

    It really is that simple in my view.
     
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  11. Matthew_Bogus

    Matthew_Bogus

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    If your worried buy yourself a pair of solar panels!
     
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  12. SestoScudo

    SestoScudo

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    China and India are basically going through a phase of rapid industralisation hence why the big pollution remember the West was going through the same phase in the 1800s into the 1900s.
     
  13. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    This is probably the worst opinion I’ve seen here in a long time.
     
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  14. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    You don't have to play for 10 hours to earn 1 car that cost 20 mill credits, and remember it is a Long term game and you can take as much time as you like to get that car.
     
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  15. breeminator

    breeminator

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    The way to keep players long term is to make the game enjoyable to play so they want to keep playing it. Whenever I look at someone's profile on K', it's extremely rare to see someone who has earned enough credits to buy all the cars, so if that is what they think is causing people to keep playing the game, their belief doesn't seem to have come from looking at the data.

    I won't name the people, but here are some figures for credits earned by people who are GTS YouTubers and do it as their full time job:
    13m
    62m
    87m
    20m
    Then some other YouTubers where I'm not aware it's their full time job:
    277m (this person might have all the cars, depending on what they've got for gift cars)
    34m
    40m

    On one of my accounts I have earned 213m, and still have 5 cars worth 85m remaining to buy, so it seems to need somewhere around 300m to buy all the cars.

    Or if I look at a top world tour player, for example, someone who we might expect has played the game quite a lot:
    76m

    I do not believe that people play sport mode with the motivation to earn credits for cars, they play it because they want to play it in its own right. The credit system isn't what is keeping people playing the game, it's the fact that they want to play sport mode. Indeed I've seen on multiple occasions a YouTuber being frustrated that they don't have the credits to buy a car they want to use in sport mode, i.e. the credit system is actively obstructing them from being able to enjoy playing the game in the way they want to.
     
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  16. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

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    I think it still boils down to a choice between...

    a. grinding for your cars. Play BMB or any of the League races that reap the most credits or use a rubber band.

    b. just playing the game as you normally would and just buy the cars as you can afford them and ignore the cars that you cant really afford and yet at the same time, dont need.

    eg. I play mainly leagues and the occasion custom race every day to get the daily reward.

    I'm now at $10 mil. I have spent something like $50 mil. all up on cars and really, you dont need to spend that much given some luck.

    I didnt buy the F1500, it came to me. I did have to buy an x2014/x2019 and that's $6 mil. gone but I score my progress by league trophies. I think I have half a dozen W08s... I really didnt need to buy one.

    I'm at the point where I think I will get enough money to buy a $20 mil. car just by playing "organically".

    When this game ends I feel like I havent missed out on much by not having every $20 mil. car.

    But at the same time if they put the cars on sale... OR... if PD were to engage the audience like the way Turn10 does it by gifting cars by taking part in events???

    There shouldnt be just one bloody minded way to get a car. That's just a nonsensical hurdle.
     
  17. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    I agree with you about the affordability of most of the cars but they blurred the line with the 'unicorn required' Nostalgia races. Buying one of those cars, legitimately or by grinding, takes way too long.

    2 million credits per hour equals 10 hours of game time for a 20 million credit car. Your math, not mine.:p

    Very true. 3 months for me to raise enough credits for the Daytona but that is by the far the longest I've ever had to save in any GT game.

    The climate changing (still tickled...:lol:) price of those unicorn cars highlights the lower payouts in GTS's career mode and an almost endless chase (new cars released while saving) for anyone who prefers sport mode and lobbies.

    I don't see the point of adding such high priced cars when the economy doesn't support them though. They should be high priced but at least make the price relative to the game's payouts.

    This will be the first GT I've not been a car collector from regular play. The economy has forced me to give up on it.
     
  18. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    Thing is though, when GT7 comes, the servers for Sport will be turned off like the rest. So it's upto the individual to play as they want to play. Earn what they want. Buy what they want. As come GT7, this all goes bye bye anyways. And then it will just be campaign mode left.

    Now, I haven't made a thread saying that all should grind like myself. This thread as been made as a complaint about energy usage in grinding/auto driving to get cars.

    My view has been clear throughout. If people complain about having to grind for cars then they can change their approach, quickly and easily. A person can race 99% of the time on Sport Mode (which we all love to do), and the other 1% of the time do a couple of single player races per day if they want more fun with more cars.

    It really isn't hard. But some insist it is. And proceed to spit the dummy at anyone who would dare suggest that there's more than one mode in game.

    And that is truly disappointing. Just wait until GT7 appears and all these people moan again about the same thing.

    They want GT to have all the cars available to use, or just their favourite mode to bring the highest credit returns just for them.

    So if they don't like GT, they shouldn't play it. As PD will always implement a car grind in every game. And tbh i'm absolutely fine with that. I have no issues with working towards something and feeling like i've achieved it.

    If everyone had all cars immediately then they would just get bored and stop playing anyway, sooner or later.

    Whether they admit that to themselves or not.
     
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  19. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    They don't. There's been plenty of high paying races in the last couple of games that could buy you a Miura in a couple of good online sessions.

    You still had to work for them but at least you didn't have to jump through hoops to get one.
     
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  20. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    You're talking about the Seasonals right? Yes you could earn high amounts in them eventually when they appeared. It didn't stop us having to find clever ways to make money in game by breaking out of the circuit to earn a few million under Nurb24 in around 10 minutes though... Well, until they patched it.

    It really isn't hard to make money in this game or level up now. It's just that, from what i've seen in here, people don't want to touch campaign mode.

    I know it's not as challenging as racing against people but there are ways to challenge yourself whilst doing it to improve.

    Would I like it that Sport Mode paid more money? Sure! But we didn't design the game, the currency drop rate, the fact they implemented dlc cars to buy from playstation store to "alleviate" the grind that they designed.

    Have you considered that issue? The fact of them wanting even more profit from the game? Thereby keeping the grind in, regardless of whether we wanted it or not?

    It's worth analysing.
     
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  21. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    Quick matches too. A popular combo with a full grid could net you up to 1.2 million for a 5 minute race. My earnings were around 2.5 billion mainly from those.

    I've done the lower cars for the campaign race's route but to get a challenge out of the A.I., I'd need a blindfold too. They're way pointed badly with strange lines and braking zones and often a total immersion breaker when the rubber banding kicks in. Too painful to do too many of them so I stick with custom races.

    It's cool. I've talked myself out of chasing unicorns.:p
     
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  22. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

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    Yep, no doubt.
    I've driven 129,000km (80,000ml) and earned 90mill. Cr. (Almost all done online. I never grind to earn Credits and have hardly touched single player.)
    I've never won a unicorn and have never bought one.
    I currently have over 15mill. but I'm not looking to buy one now either.
    It just doesn't worry me that I don't have one.
    Sure, one would be nice, but it does worry me that I have to spend all of my Credits just to get one.

    PD possibly feel that have settled on a rather well tuned economy.
    I imagine this is why selling Daily Marathon gift cars isn't a thing.

    You could put a very strong argument forward for raising the payout for Sport Mode though.
    Let's say myself and a friend bought the game for the first time today.
    I drive exclusively Sport Mode/Lobby, he drives Custom Races and GT League.
    We both drive the same amount of kilometres.
    After 'x' amount of months he would more than likely be well ahead in Credits.
    So if it's good enough for the economy to earn that amount in Single player, it should be more than fine to earn that amount in multiplayer.

    So yep, I'm all for bigger payouts for online racing.
    But I'm not sure I agree with simply making it easier/faster to make Credits across the board, as that ruins the whole in-game economy.

    But who knows, perhaps one day it will change and PD will do just that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  23. breeminator

    breeminator

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    People aren't asking for sport mode to have the highest credit returns, just equal credit returns.

    A couple of single player races per day is 20 mins per day? The only way that can be 1% of their playing time is if they play for 33 hours a day.......

    But yours is a frequent response - "but it's only x minutes every y days" or whatever. It's a GAME. It exists to serve the player, not the other way round. Why the heck would a game, with a sole reason for existence of serving the player, think it can fulfil that purpose better by trying to take control of the player and cause them to spend time playing the game in a different way to how they want to? How does that make sense from any perspective at all?
     
  24. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Ah, this topic again:
    I wrote the post a while ago, so GT Sport's quickest way to earn money as listed there is likely no longer the quickest way to earn money.

    Even if you pay no attention to the rest of it, the fifth paragraph is the one you want to read. The only game that would take the player more time to buy a top value car than GT Sport was GT5 (23hr vs 10hr), and that game added a Daily Login Bonus and high value Seasonal Events to avoid the atrocious original economy model - which are, of course, no longer available as the game's servers are not on any more.

    Only GT3 came close at 7.5hr, and that only had one car at that price and gave you shortcuts by awarding you high value cars if you were lucky which you could sell (GTS does not have this) to boost the coffers - you could get 1m/hr with the right fortune, cutting the time by half.


    GTS has the slowest credit building as a proportion of the highest value car of any Gran Turismo game as it was active at the time. And, insanely, it's even slower in the original game and the game's main headline feature (Sport Mode), compared to the mode added two months after launch.
     
  25. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    The 99% was an implied idea. Not a chronologically precise calculation.

    Here's the thing with what you are suggesting.

    Take battlefield 5 for an example. Can you, in this game, start any match and have all the weapons and all the attachments for it unlocked?

    Or.

    Do you have to grind through a progression system that you may or may not agree with to work towards those unlocks?

    Now remember, EA have you covered here. And you can skip that grind somewhat and buy, with real money, starter kits.

    Most games are like this.

    Grind/or pay money = Prize

    The only difference is that in GT you can't buy high rollers with real cash, (thankfully!).

    The game designers design the grind. They then either create a solution to it with real money or the grind is what the game is.

    GT doesn't exist to serve you.

    You exist to buy and play the game as the game designer wanted it to be played/monetised.

    It's a (fun) game to you. It's business for them. See the difference?
     
  26. TS050

    TS050 Premium

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    If you have to resort to grinding to afford a unicorn car, the credit system isn't "bloody good".
     
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  27. breeminator

    breeminator

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    Existing to serve me is a pre-requisite of me buying the game, they do not have a business if people don't buy their game. Who is going to pay them money if what they get in return isn't subservient to them? It would be like me paying a builder to do work on my house, and them asking me to take their van and fill it up with fuel, cook them food, do their washing etc. If I'm paying something, I get to set the terms, not the other way round. In the case of a game, I set the terms by only buying a game if I'm happy with how it works. I do not exist to buy their game, they have to provide me with something I want to buy. I've been playing computer games since the early 1980s, and Forza was the first game (lumping them all together) I ever played that had a mismatch between how I want to play the game and how you need to play it to access content. GTS is, I guess, the second, except that it's not a problem due to being able to earn credits by unattended driving. But if it didn't have that, it would be the second game I've played with that mismatch. Maybe this mismatch is commonplace nowadays, and I just haven't played the games that have it, but I don't see why it would be commonplace given that such games would be less appealing to players and hence less likely to be purchased.
     
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  28. Cerebral303

    Cerebral303

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, this is purely off the top of my head but in every main GT game until GTS there has always been some kind of short cut to gaining huge amounts of credits that didn't involve rubber bands and hot Playstations with gale force fans, be it winning and selling a certain car from a league or cup, or doing online seasonal races.

    I am still hoping that when PD stop making updates they will make some changes that make driving all the cars a bit easier (new mode - test drive?/final edition with bonus cars or car tokens/easy money events)
     
  29. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    The No True Scotsman fallacy is approaching its 50th birthday, actually.

    @Famine unsurprisingly nailed it: it's not that the payouts themselves aren't awful in GT Sport — though online mode being the worst is, still, an odd choice for a game apparently focused on just that — it's that the payouts haven't scaled up with the car price inflation.

    In GT1, you could buy literally any purchasable car in the game in a little over an hour of play. GT2, not too much more. GT4 changed things with B-Spec: I remember running a lot of the DTM series and selling off the prize car for a little under 1m credits in 15–20 minutes. But as Famine points out, there were other methods that didn't involve the AI doing it for you.

    That is the issue with GT Sport's economy, currently: outside of the prize car draw, the most expensive cars in the game require far more time repeating races than nearly every other title in the series. Repeating the same event over and over again for 10 hours is not emblematic of good game design. Some people may be fine with it, sure, but that doesn't mean everyone will (or should) be.
     
  30. RedRockValley

    RedRockValley

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    I apologise if this has been mentioned before but prize cars tied to an event need to make a comeback.

    There. Problem solved!
     
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