GTS credit grinding not ecological..

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Haitauer, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    No - it was a very tight race in gr1 where one had to nail tire, fuel and pit strategy to barely reach the 1st place.
     
  2. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    Wow, there has been a lot of heat in this thread, huh...
     
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  3. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    If you say so mate, but for a moderator who loves digging up dirt from the past is a pretty low act.
    In the Mission Challenge Stage 3 No. 5 you can get keep getting Gold every time and still get Credits, Is that Cheating ?.

    After I done that money glitch, I ended up later that year to start a fresh new game because it was wrong to do that Glitch. So if you think I cheated back then, well I cheated back then and that was in the past.
    Now I an enjoying the game and Grinding which you got to do if you want something like that high priced cars, as I said in one of my posts GT Sport is a long term game to play, but some players want to get that car in 5 minutes, which to me is wrong because of the credit system.
    GT Sport is a long term game to play, but some players want to get that car they want in 5 minutes, which to me is wrong because of the credit system is not right for them and it takes to long because of some Grinding.
    If you buy a racing game like GT Sport and the credit payouts seems to be low, you have to accept that game and play it on its term, or else play other racing games that do not have a credit system.
    Grinding in GT Sport is no problem at all, it's an achievement to get that car you want in this game, and it does not matter on how the credits payouts are set. I here players saying you have to do the race over and over again which is BS.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  4. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    This was wrote on my topic before so I am writing here.

    Dont feed the troll.
     
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  5. AfraidRacer

    AfraidRacer

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    It is definitely bad, but I meant it as a reply to the people who wanted all the cars for free from the get-go.
     
  6. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    Why the hell is that BS?:confused:

    I just want the chance of buying one of these cars through normal game play.

    18 months in, I've still not reached 20 million. 15 was my max and it took me 3 months to reach that. All because I can't face the over the top grinding.
     
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  7. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    I am not trolling.
    Things are got to be said about this game and I have a right to say what I like, so if the credit payouts seems to be low, you have to accept that game and play it on its terms.

    Just remember all games may not suit everyone to their liking, and if you don't like how the credit payouts are in this game, well you can not blame the game for how it is run.
     
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  8. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    That's doesn't remove the 'right' of others to raise it as an issue for them, particularly as GTS has the worst version of this kind of economy of any title in the series.

    Indeed, but once again people can like the rest of the title and dislike the way the economy has been implemented in this version.

    Actually you can, well not the game specifically, but certainly the developer of the game. After all, they are the ones who designed it!
     
  9. rallymorten

    rallymorten

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    Just to prove that I have nothing against @fordlaser as a person but rather the arguments they make, I shall now respond to these two most recent posts in as serious, not-light-hearted a manner as I possibly can:

    No. There's a difference between running the same events over and over (aka grinding) and using a quirk of the game as a shortcut, be this by having Gr.1 cars run out of fuel, be it reversing into the pit lane, be it parking in a specific manner and confusing the game, or be it by putting a rubber band on a controller to leave it running over the night.

    "Using a quirk of the game as a shortcut" broadly speaking equates to "cheating".

    Using our newfound knowledge, you'll have to start the game over again for this statement to be true.

    *sigh*

    *double sigh*

    ...

    Once again, not only does the argument you're making not make any sense, but you're actively contradicting yourself - on multiple levels!

    ..and once again, not unlike a certain fellow people may remember from back when the NFS Payback thread was still juicy goodness, your opinion isn't the only opinion in the world ever. Just as you have a right to express your opinion, others have an equal right to express theirs.

    So do excuse me for saying this straight, but shutting down other people's opinions on what amounts to a :censored: credit system in a piece of :censored: software and droning on and on about how they "moan and groan about the credits system" only to then pull a 180 and say that other people need to respect your opinion when your opinion is challenged in a perfectly logical way while simultaneously cheating your way through a game you say doesn't require cheating to the point where you restarted the game just to enjoy it all over again (except the cheating didn't stop then), frankly, seems more than just a bit hypocritical.

    That is the problem I have with anything you've ever said in these threads.

    We want to talk cheating history between the two of us? Gladly.

    I recall cheating in Test Drive Unlimited 2 on the PS3, way back when its servers were still online. That game would store your own save data locally (such was the technical limitations at the time), but also included a sort of route creator that'd let you upload created routes to a shared hub and let other people play them. It was common trick to back up your save data on a USB (or the cloud), create a route, set a $1,000,000 prize and $100,000 entry fee (both deducted from the non-USB'd personal save file), run the event as often as you'd like, and when you'd either ran out of money or the challenge ran out of time, you'd load the USB'd save (where you hadn't spent money on the challenge) and collect the prize. Many, many millions could be made quick and easy in a game that was otherwise notoriously grindy post-game.

    The differences between what I did then and what you're doing now are as follows:
    1. At no point did I think what I was doing was perfectly not-cheating,
    2. At no point did I say I didn't do it while I was doing it, and
    3. At no point did I use that trick as an excuse to call the game balanced. The very fact that I had to resort to such exploits imply the game is anything but balanced.
    Like I said, I don't give a :censored: about whether or not somebody's cheating in a game. Well, cheating in this sort of context anyway. But I do care when they use said cheats as a way of belittling perfectly reasonable concerns.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  10. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    Since this is still rolling on, I decided to update my spreadsheet as at v1.43, current total value of winning each race in GT League mode (without bonuses) is 25,848,500 Cr., I estimate ~28,000,000 with reasonable car handicap bonuses, more if Clean Race Bonus is also achieved. Now - I'm not saying it's quick, for the races I've logged times for (183 races out of 260), the total time required so far is 33 hrs, I estimate approx. 50 hrs for a full play through - but, what I am saying, is that you do not have to keep doing the same race in order to earn a lot of money if you're playing offline, 25 million credits without having to run ANY race more than once.
     
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  11. watto79

    watto79

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    I think this is something that both sides of the argument will use to 'prove' their point.

    1. See, you can earn 25 million credits without grinding one race.
    2. See, you have to play for about 50 hrs to get enough credits for ONE of the unicorn cars.

    My own thoughts on the are that as GTSport was built around online gaming it would have been better to have Sport Mode cars more readily available. However my feeling is that PD have always made games built around this requirement to earn the cars and didn't consider that maybe this should change for GTSport.

    It will be interesting to see what PD change, if anything, for GT7.
     
  12. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    In all fairness, they'd both be right (although 2. is only true if 1 is used)! The question becomes 'what is an acceptable amount of time', we've had both extremes of the spectrum represented when it comes to this question.

    edit:

    So in this context anything over 3 million is irrelevant?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  13. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    This sentence doesn't make any sense. It's either missing some words in the middle or at the end.

    In addition, it was hardly digging anything up. I searched for your username in this forum and the word "glitch". Also I'm an administrator rather than a moderator (whatever that has to do with anything), and I don't think that looking for your hypocrisy over a period of eight seconds is any lower than telling people they have to be careful about calling you a cheat because you have a disability.

    Lying about it and then telling someone to be careful about calling you a cheat because you have a disability is what you did in the present.
    This is circular logic. By using "because of" in this way you are saying that the credit system is due to the credit system.
    And you repeated it, for some reason.

    Surprisingly, there is a happy medium between the most expensive car in the game taking your claimed five minutes that people want and the 9.9 hours it actually takes. In fact every previous Gran Turismo game managed to fall between those two extremes - which again revisits the point that GT Sport has the slowest paying economy in the history of active Gran Turismo games, despite having an added mode to make it faster, which arrived after you used cheats to get more money because it was so slow...

    Or - and this is a radical concept - provide reasoned feedback on why the game's economy is objectively worse than in previous iterations and directly off-putting, with suggestions on how it can be improved. Given that the game can be updated, has been updated, has had a change to the economy - after you cheated it - and has had further changes to bypass it, this would seem to be a constructive way to go about it.

    Or every time the topic comes up you can post circular reasoning that amounts to "it is what it is", accuse other players of "moaning and groaning", claim you've never cheated (when you have), and then try to play the disability card to get away from any negative comments on your posts.

    It's... what? You don't have to do races over and over again - or "grind" - to get money to buy high value cars? What on Earth is this about then:
    Looks to me like you're talking about grinding - doing the same races over and over again.
    Are you exploiting a gap or bug in the game code to generate an unintended outcome? If so, yes. If not, no. It's not complicated.
    The total value of all purchasable cars in GT Sport is 306,231,290cr, which is eleven full play-throughs that, at your calculated rate, would take 547hr to accumulate.

    Chances are you'll win a bunch of them on the way, but it looks like you definitely won't win any of the 10 high-value cars which would account for 152,500,000cr - or five full play-throughs, and half of another one - on their own.

    That means that at the very best case, you'll need to race 1,416 offline races (all five times, just under half of them a sixth time) and spend 272hr to get all the cars. Or you can race the highest-paying race on its own 400 times, spending 65hr...

    ... and in a game built around and named for Sport Mode (GT League wasn't even in at the start), the game should surely shepherd players towards Sport Mode with higher payouts for racing online - but the online prize money is considerably worse.


    And all the cars should be available to drive in Arcade Mode or use in Scapes anyway. Try explaining the rationale to someone who is a car enthusiast but not a game enthusiast that if they want to have a quick go in a Miura or Cobra Daytona that, in a game with 300 cars, they can't without first (after buying it, spending a full day updating it) spending 15hr unlocking the high-value races then another 9hr relentlessly doing the same race over and over again to buy it for that little blast.

    Sure, lock 'em away for GT League events for the sense of progression and ownership, and online for the experience and everyone else's safety, but keeping them behind a time-wall for Arcade Mode and particularly Scapes (photograph cars in any one of 1,100 locations around the world... if you've spent 24hr grinding to unlock the car. Want to put a second one in shot? Well, we've got some bad news about that) is off-putting to non-gamers and newcomers to GT.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  14. klondike

    klondike

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    Just in case anyone from PD should ever watch this thread.

    My biggest hope for a future patch would be a more balanced way of earning credits and XP.

    I actually like a litle grind / work for getting cars. Just there are several problems with the game.

    The biggest problem is that the best ways to earn credit / XP becomes very boring.

    All I would like if it was posibel to earn the same amount of credit / XP across all modes.

    It just dosent make sense in a game that was originally only online race ( and still heavyly promoted as and online game ) That the credits awared in that mode is absurdly small compared to doing a few boring races vs the AI over and over.

    Please give us more ways to earn credits / XP across all modes that game offer. That is all I ask for.
     
  15. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    I had a count up last night. Given that I've now got all but the few most expensive cars cars in game, I've only actually bought ~91 that I've not received as gift cars, so (admittedly in 385 days of access), the game's given me about 66% of the car list for free. In practice, the amount of credits I now need to buy the remaining expensive cars, is about equal to everything I've earned so far, so I'm not disputing it takes a long time, but we are talking about the extreme situation of collecting ALL the cars in the game - which is something that for people who believe GTS should only be about Sport mode categorically don't have to do.

    I'm not against most of this, - though ANYONE who is buying a GT game, that is not expecting to have to earn credits to buy cars only has themselves to blame - if I've said people should research their purchases once, I've said it a thousand times. Even at launch, with no GT League there was an economy present.

    I'd add that being able to make a livery for a car shouldn't necessarily depend on owning it since a talented creator sharing liveries for cars they can't afford, actively benefits other users.

    Is it not still possible to reload a scape and place a second instance of the same car?
     
  16. TheGeologist

    TheGeologist

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    I think "sustainable" makes far more sense than "ecological" for the title of this thread.

    Ecological - relating to or concerned with the relation of living organisms to one another and to their physical surroundings.

    Sustainable - the quality of not being harmful to the environment or depleting natural resources, and thereby supporting long-term ecological balance.

    Edit: Just realized how spicy this thread is lol.
     
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  17. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    We have had Sport Mode races with extremely high value cars before. As I recall, the last one was a Daily Race A at Dragon Trail Gardens in the Ferrari 250GT (15m), but that was a "Specially Provided Car", but for the previous race (I think an FIA one) you had to buy... whatever the car was. I imagine participation numbers were low.
    Indeed, but people don't. However, I wasn't presuming that they do - I was just suggesting that explaining the rationale to someone will make them look at you like my dogs look at a moth.

    * So this game has 300 cars in it?

    Yes.
    * But I can only drive eight of them?
    Yes.
    * After I've spent a day installing it first?
    Yes.
    * So how do I get to drive the other 292 of them?
    You have to race to earn money to buy them.
    * Ah, and this is better in GT "Sport"'s "Sport Mode"?
    No, you'll want to race in GT League.
    * Which they didn't add to the game until two months after launch?
    Precisely.
    * And I can get lots of money in GT League?
    Yes. Well, once you've unlocked the high-value races.
    * Okay, and that takes how long?
    About 15hr.
    * Well, will I get lots of prize cars like in old GT games?
    Oh yes.
    * And I can sell them to raise even more money like in old GT games!
    No. No you can't do that.
    * Ooookay. So how much money do the really expensive, really rare, really nice cars cost?
    20,000,000cr
    * Wow. And what's the quickest way to earn that?
    Oh that's easy, you just do [this race] 55 times. Takes about 10 hours.
    * Wait, so if I buy the game to drive a really expensive, cool, old car that I wouldn't ever get the chance to drive in the real world, I need to spend a full 24hr driving to get it, and 10 of that doing the same thing repeatedly?
    Yes.
    *Can I win it as a prize car like in old GT games?
    Hahahahaha, no.
    * But I can photograph the car in these 1,100 locations around the world without putting all that time in, right?
    No, you have to buy it.
    * So just to get this straight, the people who make the game promote it with all these cool, rare, old cars that they give trophies to, and I can't do anything at all with them - no driving, no photographing, no nothing - unless I dedicate literally an entire day's worth of time to doing the same race incessantly, after unlocking it, and for each one of these cars I have to do the same thing?
    Yes.
    * Why am I supposed to buy this game and console then?
    It has the Jaguar D-Type in it!
    * Please leave.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  18. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    The economy of this game is broken because it shouldn't have an economy. It is supposed to be a Sport focused game. An online game. A multiplayer game. All these things require all cars to be available to all players from the start. No messing about.

    It isn't like that because they shoehorned a solo play mode into the game and cocked it up spectacularly by incorporating random prize mechanics instead of awarding specific prizes for specific events being completed at each stage. Add new cars to the game? Add events to win them. Game design 101.
     
  19. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    I recall one of the very early races provided one of the original trio of unicorns... but what we're basically saying, is the game provides them free to online players if they need them. Seems like a sensible solution for sport mode players, no?

    I think the other person in this discussion doesn't have their finger on the pulse.

    * So this game has 300 cars in it?
    Yes.
    * But I can only drive eight of them?
    Yes.
    * How come?
    Bloody un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels!
    * What's the EU ever done for us, eh?
    ...... aquadu... oh never mind.
    * So should I buy it?
    Not if you want to access 300 cars from the get-go, no.
    * Oh, bummer...
    Yeah, you've got to be permanently online to get the best out of it, it online saves only and sometimes it'll just delete all your progress... and it's missing quite a few things from early games. The livery editor's ace though.
    * Livery editor, great! I've got some 15mb JPEG's of anime chicks I downloaded from a guy called hentaiwaifu on Limewire 15 years ago, I'm gonna use them as 'skins'...
    Errr... might want to google Scaleable Vector Graphics first.
    * Scaly Vectra whats? Hmmm, I guess it's still got Spa though, I read something about that on GTPlanet?
    Errr, no... it's complicated.
    * NO SPA!!!!!!! RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    Yeah, no Trial Mountain, Deep Forest or Grand Valley Speedway either....
    * <Shatner Kirk> kkkkKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!
    ... no S15 Silvia ...
    * <Chokes>
    ... no current GTE cars ...
    * <Splutters>
    ... No. Daihatsu. Midget ...
    * <Dies>
    ... Lucky I didn't say anything about the penalty system.
     
  20. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    ... except when it doesn't, such as the Aston Martin DB3S race in the Nations Cup earlier this year.
    Quite so - but as I said:
    It'd seem daft to anyone not a GT enthusiast (the people we need to buy the game, so we can have more of them in the future), and explaining that "GT's always done it this way" makes even less sense considering that GT's always let you sell prize cars, GT's always had a game economy that allows you to buy the most expensive car in the game in half the time Sport does even without selling the prize cars, and GT Sport's primary marketing message was that it wasn't sticking to GT traditions: "burn it to the ground".

    The game's economy is flawed and we can't excuse it for being so because it's the GT way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  21. Ian JB

    Ian JB

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    FOR SALE:

    1 Playstation 4.
    2 Copy of Gran Turismo Sport.
    2. Controller.

    Will exchange for set of knitting needles and large ball of wool - Colour not important.
    Can collect or deliver. LANCS area United Kingdom.
    No time wasters. Tyre kickers / Door slammers!!!

    :-)
     
  22. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    I'm all for hearing what you've got to say, but please, change the :censored:ing record and hear what others are saying.

    I wouldn't want that as it breaks what GT is about. Starting low and slowly building my garage up has always been one of the game's key features.
     
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  23. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    Very good point. Sometimes I just doesnt quite hite the right nuances in english terms.


    To bring the story forward I can tell you all I just bought my first unicorn. Without too much grinding - ok maybe 5x BMB..

    I must say I quite enjoy attacking the GT Leagues nostangic 1979 Le Sarthe. That must be because I followed my heart and bought my all time favourite 250GTO instead of the obvious grinders choice 330 P4. I also have kept the setup stock other than the required power/weight tune, as the car feels very immersive with all that bodyroll. Challenge is the key here.
     
  24. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    This is not a traditional GT game where that would be appropriate. It is an esport focused online multiplayer title. All content must be available to all such players at all times. My second paragraph covered the solo requirement.
     
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  25. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    Should try the R8 Gordini then :D
     
  26. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    Its not a challenge when its impossible.. then its just impossible. :lol:
     
  27. kilesa4568

    kilesa4568

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    True at the start but now we have the more traditional GT with GT League. The fans begged for the same tried and trusted formula of old GT's and got it. Along with all the content updates, it's now a home from home...apart from the glaring issues with payouts.

    I can see your way of thinking with cars readily available for sport mode but for us more traditional GT players, it goes against the grain. We like buying them before we use them.
     
  28. breeminator

    breeminator

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    For that particular function, I don't think anyone could say whether it's unintended or not. How can we differentiate between the developers making an error, vs it being an intentional "easter egg" for those who search for such things? Given the way code ought to be written, with re-usable shared code, it would be quite hard to accidentally make just a single event work incorrectly in that way. I don't know if the different behaviour is still in the game or not, but even if they changed it, it wouldn't mean it wasn't intentional to have it in there for a period of time as an easter egg reward for early purchasers of the game.

    I mostly agree with this, except that it doesn't need to be all content, only content relevant to the e-sport aspect. So this is why the mileage exchange doesn't particularly bother me, because the cars never seem to be needed for sport mode races. I think PD actually agrees with you, and that it's a conscious decision by them that the expensive cars are never needed for sport mode races. So cars needed for sport mode aren't always available in the sense of all players having them, but neither are they locked behind time windows of availability, nor are they locked behind the highest purchase prices. If sport mode activities paid out the same as the highest paying campaign races, I think everyone would be pretty happy with the availability of the subset of cars needed for sport mode.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2019
  29. twitcher

    twitcher

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    For the most part, I agree with what your saying here. For me, and I know there are some others who think the same way, the most frustrating aspect of the unicorn cars is that for the 3rd game in a row now, some of the most iconic racecars of ALL TIME are reduced to the roll of virtual dust collector/paper weight. They’re literally trophies, good for nothing other than saying “look what I got”. Add to the equation that GTS is specifically supposed to be focused on Sport and actual racing...these cars serve next to zero purpose in this game.

    I would LOVE to be able to find an online lobby that was using all the Vintage Le Mans cars, but it’ll never happen, purely based on the percentage of the community that actually owns those cars in game.

    As far as the amount of usage the GT community gets out of those cars, they’re literally next to useless, and a complete waste of PD’s resources.

    I’m all for having trophies and rewards in games for all kinds of things...but why, why does the time sink trophy for GT games HAVE to be these iconic racecars? Why can’t it be a special race suit, or a special livery, or special Scape, or a sticker, or whatever...anything else really.

    The funny thing is, there is a small group of people on this forum who fully support and embrace the unicorn trophy cars being locked behind a time sink....but if you ask these same people whether or not they would support some of these cars being locked behind a skill wall (eg, making the 20mil cars available only to those players who had A/S DR/SR ranking), their answer is an emphatic “No, that would not be fair, as not everyone would have a chance to acquire those cars.”

    It’s just another example of PD being almost completely out of touch with how people actually use their product.
     
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  30. JoaoSilva

    JoaoSilva

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    Well i own Sport for a long time and the most expensive car i own is the Vulcan and only because it was gifted. Anything more expensive than that i never driven, owned or even attempted to own because it just takes days (literally) of boring grinding to get them. I only allow myself to grind for 1 million Cr. cars, anything above that, i won't bother.

    I love Sport but one of the things that let this games down (for me) is the extremely low payouts considering the prices of some cars, cars that i'll never get to drive, sadly.

    PD should just increase payouts overall, maybe increase them by 2x, maybe even 3x.

    But it's all a matter of opinion.