GTSport takes 1 in Japanese game sales for the week!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Skulli, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    I noticed last night in the Nurburgring GR3 race which has been very popular and is so far my favourite Sport mode race that they seemed to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for participants. There were people in the lobby with a quali time 5 or 6 seconds slower than me and one person hadn't even set a time.
     
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  2. Corsa

    Corsa Premium

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    I've done that, on a product called GT Sport.

    That product is currently sitting in a used Gamestop bin with a $44.99 asking price.

    I paid very close attention here leading up to release, read all the news, watched countless videos then played the demo.
    I knew it was different but gambled on Kazs 15% comment thinking there must be more in the final product.
    I honestly feel misled and have nothing nice or productive to say, so I'll stop.

    What I do know is Thank God for Assetto Corsa, Cars, and the upcoming COD WW2.
     
  3. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    So parts of the campaign mode that are not in campaign!

    I've worked as a trainer and training manager in the motor industry for twenty years and if you presented that to me as a supposed piece of training material covering those areas I would fire you!

    Then its not part of the campaignmode, its part of the sports mode.

    Not that it changes the fact that on on part of the GTS website is says Campaign has four sections and on another it says four.

    Nor that the exact nature of always on-line was not clear a month or even months before launch.

    Your claim was quite clear, that everything was in the public domain months before launch, a claim that numerous examples show not to be the case (that the GTS web-site still has two different and contradictory numbers for the campaign mode is clear enough evidence that was and is not the case.

    Your own posts back in early October were far from definitive in regard to what GTS would and would not have and how it would work. I would however rather not have to start using your own posts to illustrate that not everything was known months before launch.
     
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  4. CopperySinger

    CopperySinger

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    well you are not my training manager, so it would not be appropriate for you to think of firing me for giving you the facts about flag signals and safety cars training in gtsport.

    This is self explanatory, etiquette it is part of the Campaign but listed under the sports tab, I would hate to be your trainer.
     
  5. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    Clearly it's part of the Sports mode as it's a requirement to watch two videos, which teach you oh so much about racing, to be able to play Sport mode. Your continued insistence on all of this just makes you look more and more desperate to to defend. Give up man.
     
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  6. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I didn't say you were, but your understanding of training methodology is lacking, as such I would suggest not attempting to use a source you don;t understand if you are not able to apply it correctly.

    The videos do not meet Bllom's Taxonomy, not even close. Nor from a learning and development perspective are the any form of effective training (regardless of methodology).


    The GTS website doesn't agree with you, which is odd because you stated as a fact that this was all covered months ago.

    The GTS website right now.

    Main page:
    2017-10-26_15-15-40.jpg
    On-line Manual (accessed via the main page):
    2017-10-28_15-28-04.jpg

    So which is it? Three or Four?

    As this was apparently 100% clear and in the public domain months ago, despite being shwon in two different and contradictory counts on the website a week after go-live.

    You have also still failed to shpow that full deatails of exactly what was usable and under what circumstances in regard to the always on-line being in the public domain months before launch.

    Hell you were even vague in early October....

    ...why not have been definitive about it, as the information was all available months before you said that?


    Lets be blunt here, every piece of information about GTS was not available months before launch, and right now you are digging a bloody big hole of wild and contradictory claims to true and support a claim I think you know you should not have made.

    I've given you more than enough opportunities to back out of this with dignity, and all you have done is attempt to keep using the same 'facts' that don;t support you claim and are clearly only partial pieces of information (so do not support the 'everything' and/or are dated far, far closer to launch that 'months' (a plural meaning at least two or more months).

    As such you are now quite clearly just posting information and supporting a claim that you know full well is not true, and have dragged this thread too far off topic in attempting to support the unsupportable.

    The AUP is quite clear that knowingly posting false information is not acceptable.

    No one has disputed that information was available for those who wanted to go and look for it, of course it was. Any company launching a product will ensure that they drip feed that information to those who want it. However its also demonstrably true that PD did not provide every piece of information months before launch (that the website still shows two contradictory pieces of information is clear evidence of that).

    You have a bee in your bonnet around the fact that some people who bought GTS are not happy with it, and right now its causing you to post in a manner that is running the risk of you receiving formal warnings for an AUP violation.

    Stop and actually think about the statement you made.

    Do you honestly believe that every piece of information about GTS was available to the buying public months before launch?

    Everything, as in not one piece of information was missing from the public domain?

    Stop and actually think about that, becasue I'm 100% sure that you actually know that's not the case at all.
     
  7. CopperySinger

    CopperySinger

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    Scaff, so do you agree that PD did in fact present details about the game prior to release which refutes every notion that they didn't?

    Also, do you agree the safety cars and flag signal training is in fact in the game which refutes every notion that it isn't?

    I appears that you still don't understand this.

    Misinforming the public even in Japan could possible impact sales even if it is just here say in a forum or review site.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  8. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I've never said they didn't.

    You however said quite clearly that everything about GTS was known months prior to the launch.

    That's quite different, as such your now moving the goalposts a lot.

    I didn;t say they were not in the game, I said that the racing etiquette videos don't cover them.

    That's once again quite different.


    Oh I understand it quite clearly. Now you are not only content with continuing to deliberately post information that you know to be untrue, but you have now resorted to outright missleading posts about what other have said.

    As I am party to this conversation I'm not going to moderate it myself, but I am passing it over to a member of the administration team to review.
     
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  9. markasred

    markasred

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    brand loyalty is a significant factor in a long running series.
    ---------------------------------------

    The original GT sold 10+m, GT 3 A Spec was almost 15M, GT 5 was 10+m.. So every first iteration on a console has sold 10+M, perhaps the extra near 5M on A Spec were casuals? lol

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    When looked at as a factor of influence 67% of people how a title looks in the main buying factor (and the biggest influence), 48% cite it being a continuation of a series as the main influence, 42% will buy without trying a title compared to 32% from a demo (that's right less try a demo and buy that buy unseen). Games are seen as offering better value for money than DVD's, going to the movies and music (and as such a lower risk purchase - lower risk purchases get less research than high risk purchases)
    -------------------------------------

    You're talking nonsense.. Films/ books etc all have the same preferences with actors/ directors/ producers.. We have had a Beta, a demo which was 40GB, few "casuals" are going to download that size file yet there were over 1M downloads, which is more than Assetto Corsa

    http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Assetto+Corsa&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50

    and Project Cars

    http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Project+Cars&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50

    sold on any non PS system.. F1 same
    http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=F1&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50

    Its always the Playstation fan who is buying the simulators and Europeans are the majority this isn't a new phenomenon, it dates back to 1994 when Psygnosis too a couple of bums off the street and made them famous

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarre_Creations#History

    ----------------------------------------------
    The Bizarre Creations team was initially five strong, and worked on a concept project called "Slaughter". After seeing the demo, Psygnosis signed the team onto Formula 1(for PlayStation). Formula 1 went on to become the best selling game in Europe in 1996.
    ----------------------------------------------

    GT 5 wasn't even available for digital download and also wasn't a full install, you had to keep the disk in the drive, which for me meant a new PS 3 for other games. GT 5 Prologue and GT 6 were fully downloadable retail sales on both Prologue and GT 6 suffered as a result.

    -----------------------------------------
    When looked at as a percentage of all factors advertising and reviews are only a 3% influence factor combined, while what the cover looks like accounts for 4%. That's right a pretty box is a bigger factor than all the advertising and reviews combined! While familiarity with the series and developer total 20%.

    http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/EF2017_FinalDigital.pdf
    https://www.polygon.com/2016/4/29/11539102/gaming-stats-2016-esa-essential-facts
    http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf
    -------------------------------------------

    So what are you saying?? That GT fans who had been distracted by Forza/ PCars/ Assetto Corsa fans over the last 4 years and have kept on playing GT 6, weren't going to be interested in the next GT?? You DO know GT Planet gets quoted & requoted in loads of online sites and it isn't for your Forza/ Assetto Corsa/ PCars etc news right??

    If the new versions of Forza



    PCars



    Assetto Corsa



    sell poorly, it that surprising??

    These devs have had 4 years without the real driving simulator to compete with and thats the best they can come up with???

    You seem concerned that GT is selling well and are determined to downplay it, which I find very strange considering you position on this site.

    <snipped for length>

    Behave yourself

    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/gaming/gran-turismo-sport-wants-turn-everyone-racing-driver

    its been known since May 2016 what GT Sports was all about

    =====================================
    Gone is the stalwart single player GT Mode from previous titles in the series, replaced with interactive tuition designed to hone your driving skills, teach racing etiquette and prepare you for the real meat of the game, the multiplayer ‘Sport Mode’.

    Designed as a fully functioning motorsport calendar, Sport Mode offers up sanctioned, FIA events on weekends, full 24-hour races and daily challenges. Basically it turns your PS4 into what Lewis Hamilton sees when he boots up his schedule in the morning. Get really good and you’ll end up participating in live-streamed, live-commentated events, culminating in an FIA World Final.
    ============================

    When you have the holder of the fastest lap ever at Lemans



    Kamui Kobayashi giving tips how to drive the same Toyota TS050 hybrid round the ring, you think Japanese racing fans aren't going to be interested??

    Or in UK/Europe Lewis Hamilton



    giving the thumbs up??

    To infer PD or Kazunori Yamauchi was being deceitful in there advertising is blatant fanboyism/trolling of the worst kind.

    We had reviews like that.. Beta/ Demos all the media slagging off GT for its lack of content in comparison to GT 5/6, yet compare any game to those and it will get totally destroyed, yet it didn't seem to matter for Assetto Corza/ PCars/ Forza scores did it??
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  10. fikridroid

    fikridroid

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    So the matchmaking system must work very differently then, back in the days of Open Beta and day one release the sport lobby that I've entered mostly having the full grid.
     
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  11. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    You missed all the GT fails.

    You use anecdotal evidence to try and dismiss sourced information because it 'offends' your preference.

    Oh and don't use the term fanboy, its not permitted here, we can do without the flame-bait.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  12. markasred

    markasred

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    =======================

    Well apologies for that [didn't know about fanboy] but the apology would be for an ad hominem attack if anything, not flamebait

    ===================================
    To infer PD or Kazunori Yamauchi was being deceitful in there advertising is blatant fanboyism/trolling of the worst kind.
    ===================================

    but if you cannot back up what you're saying, yours are the flamebait posts.

    Here's an example of ad hominem

    ==================================
    dismiss sourced information because it 'offends' your preference.
    ======================================

    I did say every FIRST iteration on a console [meaning a Playstation 1st release .... PS 1= GT.. PS2 = GT 3 A Spec .. GT 5= PS 3.. Ergo PS 4/GT Sports was going to be in a similar position. Very little offends me mate, i'm too long in the tooth for that. I think you should look inside yourself and ask why a moderator on a GT site would be trying make excuses for why sales for GT Sports is high in Japan, especially in light of Kamui Kobayashi's recent excellent laptime against Porshe's 909 Hybrid...



    GT Sports afaik is the ONLY simulator to have both cars in the sim.

    My point was with Top Gear giving the full info 18 months ago where is the wrongdoing from PD/ Kazunori Yamauchi??? We had the Beta/ Demo, all the reviews yet we chose to ignore them that isn't the action of casuals, who along with n00bs are the only people who take any notice of Metacritic.. Brits certainly don't.

    What GT is doing isn't a phenomenon.. You get the same with MGS [PS 1], MGS 2 :Sons of liberty and MGS 4

    http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?nam...isher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50

    all selling between 5.9 - 6.05M they are the HARDCORE base.. By the same token look at the non PS sales, the highest is the XBone with 840K, PS 4 fans only bought 3.4M, prob because they didn't trust Konami after making Kojima make a multi-plat via the Fox engine rather than as normal, design the engine for the console. Final Fantasy

    http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Final+Fantasy&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50

    the 2 best sellers were FF7 and FFX, BOTH published by Sony.

    BTW I stated that GT 6 was the first full digital download which will run fully without the disk, inferring that Digital Sales will also be high in Japan.. Guess what??

    https://www.dualshockers.com/gran-turismo-sport-ps4-downloads-japan/

    Gran Turismo Sport Dominates PS4 Digital Download Sales Chart in Japan

    Go look at your VR thread which is something like 73-37 pro VR

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    Sony released its PS4 digital download chart, and Gran Turismo Sport is at the top. Many VR titles show that PlayStation VR is becoming more popular.
    =====================================

    Moderator or not, you need to let it go, instead of trying to brow beat and listen to what others are trying to explain to you. Moderators aren't infallible, even they can learn something right??
     
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  13. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Ok first thing, GT Planet provides a perfectly good set out quoting tools and options, your post is a mess and I have no idea who half of it is supposed to refer to.

    Now in regard to flame-bait, if you post up a series of 'fail' videos for every title bar GT, then yes that's flame-bait.

    Are you attempting to suggest that GT has not issues? As that is quite simply nonsense, every physics engine has situations in which the code will go bonkers, GTS included.

    I will however go further, the GTS physics engine is very basic in comparison to both AC and PC2. That's not a dig at GTS, hell DC has a basic physics engine and it's a great title I love to bits. It's simply a demonstrable fact that it has its limitations.

    Nor does my status as a moderator have anything to do with that, we are not required to sign a pro GT pact when it comes to posting.

    Yes it does have the 919 and TS050, but it also has a huge amount missing that others have, nor is the hybrid side of either of these cars well modelled. AC walks all over any other console title in that regard.

    Now as far as the hardcore fanbase goes, if you claim that makes up the majority of buyers then you are going to have to support that, as for GT5 and GT6 over 50% of owners never owned more than 10 cars. That certainly removes half the buyers from any claim of being hardcore.

    Oh and you don't speak for all 'brits', so don't assume to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  14. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

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    I’m confused as to what your trying to prove, I thought @Scaff was trying to point out that its not too difficult to understand why there would be some unhappy customers. I don’t recall him trying to discredit the sales figures.

    Your initial post begins with the most logical reason.

    The brand has changed its game build, therein lies the problem.

    Thanks for the input but as has been pointed out the rest of your posts make no sense in regards to the conversation that has grown over the past few days.

    Was your posts just to say that GTS has sold well??
     
  15. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Advise. Don't use vgchatz as a source as it is totally untrustworthy. As for the dualshockers link - that doesn't even have sales numbers. Yes GTS is top but top of what? It could be 10,000 it could be 1,000. Unless Sony releases numbers it doesn't have any proper use.

    The UK and Japanese numbers are the only ones to work with at the moment and they are only for physical media and don't tell the whole picture either.
     
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  16. CopperySinger

    CopperySinger

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    There is not much tinkering needed to get a good feeling for me with GTS. I spent hours tinkering around with PCARS Pcars 2 wheel settings and FFB, finally to get a decent feeling which is very similar to what I get with GTS right out the box or only with just a few adjustments.

    I wouldn't call it a limitation if it already works for me and I have no problems with it, but to each his own.


    EDIT: I mean to say PCAR2 instead of PCARS1
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  17. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I'm not referring to tinkering to get a preferred feel, even given that PC1 was well known and renowned for its issues it that regard (yet excellent when done) and PC2 doesn't have anything like the same issue and AC is simply excellent out of the box.

    However as you mention it GTS's feel is basic to say the least in comparison to the competition, with surface feel almost totally absent for any track that isn't the 'ring, brake feel almost totally absent and understeer ffb that is simply wrong.

    What I was referring to is the physics engine, while GTS is an improvement on GT6 its still quite literally years behind the competition in terms of AC and PC2.
     
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  18. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    The release of the new game has resulted in some interesting new members signing up.....
     
  19. MisterOne77

    MisterOne77

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    Yes, yes it has..
     
  20. CopperySinger

    CopperySinger

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    I haven't played Asseto yet, but on certain cars in PCars2 I get this weird snap oversteer at very slow speeds. maybe it has its faults or I still have a long way to go to get used to those cars; I use pcars2 mainly for hot-lapping and GTS for everything else including campaign. Project Cars2 is a compliment to GTS instead of a competitor imo.



    Edit: I would discuss further on that Pcars topic but in a more appropriate thread
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  21. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    What cars and under what circumstances, and what are you using as your reference point for what the cars should be doing?

    Edit. No problem I will repost this in one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  22. markasred

    markasred

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  23. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Try that again in a manner that can actually be read and you may get a reply.

    Oh and should it contain the same level of personal attacks it will get deleted and a warning will be issued.
     
  24. markasred

    markasred

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    So what was there to say?? Well done Kaz, god bless PD and all who sail in her??

    Can you explain why coming #1 would = "therein lies the problem"???

    It went to #1 in Japan and #1 in the UK, so WHY is that a "problem".. Surely the problem is for PCars 2 and Forza 7 which didn't?

    Tell me who is/are the one not making sense?

    I'm sorry but I always thought getting to #1 in the retail charts was a good thing, apparently it isn't ... Care to explain why?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  25. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    The only thing that getting to number 1 tells us is that it sold more than number 2.

    Nothing more and nothing less.

    It doesn't without more data tell us how well it did in comparison to other titles in the series in its first week (only better than GT6 unless we go back to the original GT), how well it did in terms of the publishers expectations (nor will we ever know as PD don't publish that information), nor does it tell us how happy people are with it.
     
  26. markasred

    markasred

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    Oh I didn't see that one coming..
     
  27. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    Dude, you really need to learn how to use the forum tools. Your postings are bordering on gibberish but the lack of knowing how to use the forum tools make what you are saying impossible to understand.
     
  28. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    You agreed to follow the AUP when you joined, we expect all members to follow them.

    Not at all.



    I didn't say it was a problem at all, nor would it be any different if we were talking about a different title.



    I have no idea why you're asking this.


    I already have, it depends on context.




    You may be OK with making it that simple, I'm not. Which is why I said that being number one only means one thing in this context. That you sold more than number two

    Put your replies outside of the quotes, not in them as you currently are, as it makes them unreadable and means when other members use the quote tool they get nothing to reply to.

    If you wish to break your post down to address different points indivdually (as I have here) then simply put each part of the text you are replying to in between quote points and you reply after.

    As an example (and I will need to spell quote incorrectly to show you the correct syntax to use.

    [quoet="membersname, post number, member id"]The second bit you are quoting goes here[/quoet]
    Your reply to the first point goes here

    [quoet="membersname, post number, member id"]The first bit you are quoting goes here[/quoet]
    Your reply to the second point goes here


    That way your posts will look the same as others do and members will actually be able to reply to them.
     
  29. Skulli

    Skulli (Banned)

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    Coming in 1st is irrelevant when it selling 1/3rd what a proper GT sales and is expected to sale.

    Imagine the next star wars takes 1st at the box office, but only does 35m not the expected 150m plus. That be crippling to the franchise. Or you coming 1st on your high school swim team doesn't make you Michael Phelps with his dozens of medals.

    GTS was to be back to the glory days of GT after the screw up of GT6, now it's hopefully at best case scenario it can match the screwed up GT6.
     
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