Has Forza 3 suppressed you appetite for GT5?

[Kryz11]

Idk about that, see GT4 came out 5 years ago(almost) and people are STILL playing it. I doubt 5 years down the line anyone willl be playing FM3. To me thats a good game, when the next gen has been established people still play it despite graphics and online.

No one will play it down 5 years from now because Xbox 3 will come out, and I bet Xbox 360 will be dropped just like original xbox.

 

[Seismica]

it's not as much as an advancement considering the 360 is generally better at graphics than the PS3, with some interiors feeling like a rush job.

*I smell bull excrement*

Nnnrghh... Must.... Resist.... Urge..... To Argue...... I got the last thread locked by giving in to my urges.

Idk about that, see GT4 came out 5 years ago(almost) and people are STILL playing it. I doubt 5 years down the line anyone willl be playing FM3. To me thats a good game, when the next gen has been established people still play it despite graphics and online.

People are still playing GT4 because GT5 is taking too long I bet in 2-3 years time noone will be playing Forza 2 because of Forza 3. In 5 years time people won't be playing Forza 3 because of Forza 4. But if Forza 4 isn't out til 2015, people will still be playing Forza 3 in 2014.

 

[deep_sky]

*I smell bull excrement*

Nnnrghh... Must.... Resist.... Urge..... To Argue...... I got the last thread locked by giving in to my urges.

Truth hurts that much, huh?

 

[evilfoxhound]

Well, people are already going back to Forza 2 because they screwed the online up so much in Forza 3 (See official website forum).

So I think Forza 2 will actually out-live Forza 3 because of the online features.

 

[chepe371]

*I smell bull excrement*

Nnnrghh... Must.... Resist.... Urge..... To Argue...... I got the last thread locked by giving in to my urges.





People are still playing GT4 because GT5 is taking too long

How could i forget! I'm still playing GT2 and its been like a decade! Its because of the DB6 and the [R] tuned Shelby GT350.

 

[steven]

Unfortunately I don't have an XBox or Forza - mainly due to the fact that I would have to buy another wheel because the DFGT doesn't work on it - so I can't comment on this question

That said, it does look like to me that Forza at the moment is the better game.

 

[Custer85]

I only have the G25 and i play PC Sims and GT5 Prologue with it and since the Xbox360 does not support it, i will not buy an Xbox360 for Forza 3. Should there ever be an Exclusive, that i really want to have, i might actually buy theconsole, but since the PS3 exclusives appear to be better in general (visually and gameplay wise) i dont think i will own one in the next months to come.

Alan Wake could make me buy one, but since it comes out for PC aswell i dont care.

Forza 3 did not impress me that much either. I had the chance to play it at a friends house (with D-pad only) and i am quite amazed how people really compare it to GT5 Prologue. GT5 Prologue has more style, better visuals, better sounds (especially the flatulent tire sounds in F3 suck, they are even worse then F2) and arguably better physics. I still have to try forza with a wheel, but i guess it wont change my impression, that F3 is way to easy to drive. The visuals are ok, but the interiors seem to be rushed and the textures look flat compared to GT5P. One thing that i missed was a propper view through the rear window, something that really increases the immersion.
But i respect T10s try to go for a more cartoony look, since its something different from most other games that try to be as photorealistic as possible.

Overall Forza 3 is a good game, but it does definately not make me want an Xbox360. Everybody with an Xbox360 should get it, because i can emagine that it will keep you busy until GT5 is released.

FM3 really makes me want GT5 even more

 

[lalaurentide]

I bought a Driving Force GT for GT5, i will never buy a steering wheel for Forza 3, enough said...

i should be constructive here; i'm am a huge fan of the first Forza, i don't know why but this franchise doesn't excite me as it used to, maybe the 2nd was too much of a disapointment and 3rd too much like the 2nd. They lost their soul with the new menu style, it feels like IKEA made it, and the music went from very good the first time to fairly good in the 2nd to totaly bad in 3rd, no matter how good the physics could be, everything else feels wrong anyway. If it wasn't for how awful xbox's graphics look on a hdtv, i would rather play Forza 1. DLCs might save the game for me, but a second DVD with only 2gigs = huge disapointment, i was expecting BIG, especially with the "100 tracks" bull**** they served us, Forza 3 has 400 cars but not 100 tracks, i guess i'm still waiting for the "real" Forza 3 to be release, the one they sold us and the one they are actually selling are two world apart, one is a great game the other one a 50$ Forza 2's DLC.

 

[Dravonic]

How driving on grass is more unforgiving?

Grass is super slippery.

I mean that while you will spin out if you step on the grass in the game, in real-life you will spin out more easily I believe.

 

[Seismica]

Truth hurts that much, huh?

No, the overwhelming lies are killing me, and this is essentially a Forza/GT thread not an Xbox/PS3 thread. So because i'm restricted by the forum rules about posting on topic i'm not going to start the argument again, like i said, the last thread got locked.

On topic:

I bet Forza has lost quite a large proportion of potential sales due to users not willing to fork out for a 360 compatible wheel for just one game (aside from the cost of the 360 itself). But GT/PS3 supports the Logitech wheels, which is a big plus, it means PC sim racers who enjoyed the earlier GT games don't have to fork out for a new console AND a new wheel to play the game.

 

[LaBounti]

No. Just, no.

Shift is even easier to drive on the edge and over that edge.

Are you talking about when using only the game pad? Cuz it is easier to drive with the wheel, just not drift. I'm talking about just the pad, its easier to drive in forza than in shift.

 

[Tapey]

I don't think Forza 3 has suppressed anyone's appetite, the game has been a complete and utter commercial failure. It has sold a pathetic amount of copies.

It will be interesting to see if it becomes a bundled game like Forza 2, so Microsoft can attempt to artificially increase sales of the game but right now it's just a tremendous flop. Definitive failure of this generation considering the huge amount of hype that was built up for it.

It's a shame too since GT5P came out back in 2007, and Turn 10's 2009 attempt was severely lacking in comparison in certain areas. I bought it to hold me over until GT5 but it's just bad, and the online is horrificly bad.

 

[Terronium-12]

Are you talking about when using only the game pad? Cuz it is easier to drive with the wheel, just not drift. I'm talking about just the pad, its easier to drive in forza than in shift.

Wait, now all I'm confused.

It's easier to drive in Shift with a steering wheel or FM3? I wouldn't doubt the latter but the former...I would think it'd be even harder.

 

[Tenacious D]

considering the 360 is generally better at graphics than the PS3

I don't see how you can say this considering that

• The 360 has been out a year longer, and is based on a PC-like architecture, and easier to develop for, yet most 360 titles are simply keeping pace.
• There are no 360 games that look as good as Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 or Prologue.

In fact, the only game I'm aware of which is comparable is a PC title, and you need a PC a quantum leap more powerful than the PS3 to achieve that level of graphics.

 

[deep_sky]

I don't want to derail this, but why the seeming animosity to what is a powerful 360 architecture?

The RSX is the same chip that the PS3 had when it was meant to ship in 2005; in the year that the PS3 was delayed, the chip wasn't upgraded, so the extra year has made no difference. The Xenos is a specially designed chip solely for the 360 while the RSX is essentially a chip based on an off the shelf spec.

Every third party game looks better on the 360 than PS3, and so there's no reason to doubt that the 360 couldn't achieve the results of Sony's first party games if MS chose to invest in first party studios with the quality of Naughty Dog or Polyphony.

As it happens, MS choose to invest in taking third party games away from the PS3, which is maybe short sighted, but has worked so far.

 

[TokyoDrift]

I bet Forza has lost quite a large proportion of potential sales due to users not willing to fork out for a 360 compatible wheel for just one game (aside from the cost of the 360 itself). But GT/PS3 supports the Logitech wheels, which is a big plus, it means PC sim racers who enjoyed the earlier GT games don't have to fork out for a new console AND a new wheel to play the game.

A small proportion of console owners play racing games with a wheel, so I fail to see how Forza has lost quite a large proportion of potential sales...

 

[TBR 427]

Every third party game looks better on the 360 than PS3, and so there's no reason to doubt that the 360 couldn't achieve the results of Sony's first party games if MS chose to invest in first party studios with the quality of Naughty Dog or Polyphony.

Interesting bit there, and the only thing I've seen you post that holds some water. Well, some of it, anyway.

Back in the 'old' days of gaming (a.k.a the 6th generation), companies were porting games from the more powerful console (the XBOX) to the less powerful console (the PS2). Companies like Ubisoft, EA, etc. After talking with some of the project leads for titles such as Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell (from Ubisoft) and others from many more development companies, the overwhelming response was that it was a dumb way to do things. They couldn't simply strip the game down and cram it onto the console; they couldn't even simply rework it so that it would work. What they ended up doing most of the time was quickly making a new game engine for the other console, and then completely redoing almost every single effect, control, anything you can name so that it would work; and even rushed this took a lot of time and money.

Now, making ports that take valuable time and money isn't such a great idea; and towards the end of the last generation devs figured out if they made the game for the PS2 and ported it over to the XBOX it would be a lot easier and a lot cheaper. The benefits should be fairly obvious.

But why is this relevant, you ask?

Because almost all third party games are originally developed for the 360. It's easier for them to get their heads around, and it's easier, quicker and cheaper to port everything almost straight into a PS3 version. Shortcuts are taken, just so that it gets out the door with minimum fuss and budget.

The difference between the consoles is only obvious when the developers actually put in some effort, and usually it's because they are only making it for one console. Currently no 360 game can touch Uncharted 2, nor Killzone 2, and if you think you've found a racing game that looks as good as Prologue when you're driving a black 430 around the London track you're just plain lying.

Other people here have explained in detail the technical sides of this (don't be a fool and just go straight for CPU names, there's A LOT more to the console than that).

(sorry for taking this off-topic mods/OP, but I believe that sharing some of my experiences could benefit some people).

 

[deep_sky]

I don't know what bit you think holds water, as all of it does. Xenos a custom chip designed for 360, check. PS3 in 2006 using chip it was supposed to in 2005, check. Multi-plat 360 games looking better than PS3, check. MS spending money on third parties rather than its own studios, check.

I'm not quite sure when I said that I found a racing game that looked as good as Prologue, as if you bothered to read my other post, I clearly said the graphics are lacking and not an advancement.

The reason there is no 360 game that looks as good as UC2 or KZ2 (although Gears 2 comes mighty close) is because MS don't invest that way, because, yawn, as I've said twice now, they spend their money getting what were PS3 exclusives onto the 360 and spending money tying up DLC deals rather than using their limited first party studios to push their own hardware.

I mean look, MS spent $50 million getting GTA IV DLC rather than spending $50 million on first party to make a game that really pushes the 360 to its bleeding edge, which is unlike what Sony are doing, which is spending $40 million (combined) on UC1 and UC2, $20 million on KZ2, and $60 million GT5, all of which push the PS3 hard. That's just not what MS are about.

I don't know how there can be an argument about it.

 

[Seismica]

A small proportion of console owners play racing games with a wheel, so I fail to see how Forza has lost quite a large proportion of potential sales...

My mistake, i meant to put in 'sim racers' i.e. the people who play PC sims. People who own a logitech wheel for races were probably unwilling to fork out for another just to play Forza. And the PS3 isn't as expensive as it used to be, and GT5 will be giving you more for your money than Forza 3; more content and probably better physics if they improve upon prologue.

I don't know what bit you think holds water, as all of it does. Xenos a custom chip designed for 360, check. PS3 in 2006 using chip it was supposed to in 2005, check. Multi-plat 360 games looking better than PS3, check. MS spending money on third parties rather than its own studios, check.

I'm not quite sure when I said that I found a racing game that looked as good as Prologue, as if you bothered to read my other post, I clearly said the graphics are lacking and not an advancement.

The reason there is no 360 game that looks as good as UC2 or KZ2 (although Gears 2 comes mighty close) is because MS don't invest that way, because, yawn, as I've said twice now, they spend their money getting what were PS3 exclusives onto the 360 and spending money tying up DLC deals rather than using their limited first party studios to push their own hardware.

I mean look, MS spent $50 million getting GTA IV DLC rather than spending $50 million on first party to make a game that really pushes the 360 to its bleeding edge, which is unlike what Sony are doing, which is spending $40 million (combined) on UC1 and UC2, $20 million on KZ2, and $60 million GT5, all of which push the PS3 hard. That's just not what MS are about.

I don't know how there can be an argument about it.

to quote a previous post i made:

To sum up, whilst the quality of the image on well ported cross-platform games will be the same, the PS3 is capable of running it at a much higher framerate. What we see currently though, is developers creating and optimising a game for Xbox 360, then porting them for PS3 and skipping the optimisation stages, so the PS3 version often doesn't turn out as good.

I also posted a visitor message, so we don't clutter this thread.

Now please, end this argument before another thread gets locked.

 

[deep_sky]

We'll see how Final Fantasy XIII turns out then, now that the porting is the other way

/Ends

 

[Seismica]

We'll see how Final Fantasy XIII turns out then, now that the porting is the other way

/Ends

A big title like that that has been in development for so long isn't going to skip the optimisation stages

Games like Call of Duty only have 2 years of development before release, so they rush the optimisation.

 

[TokyoDrift]

My mistake, i meant to put in 'sim racers' i.e. the people who play PC sims. People who own a logitech wheel for races were probably unwilling to fork out for another just to play Forza. And the PS3 isn't as expensive as it used to be, and GT5 will be giving you more for your money than Forza 3; more content and probably better physics if they improve upon prologue.

OK, understood. The thing is though, these "sim racers" who are bothered enough to have a high enough specced PC with a decent wheel are even more of a minority. I guess I just feel that no matter how you cut it, the number of users put off buying Forza 3 just because of the wheel situation is tiny in comparison to the general buying public. I hear what you are saying though - the PS3 with GT5 and its logitech wheel compatibility offer a somewhat more compelling option to that segment.

 

[Seismica]

OK, understood. The thing is though, these "sim racers" who are bothered enough to have a high enough specced PC with a decent wheel are even more of a minority. I guess I just feel that no matter how you cut it, the number of users put off buying Forza 3 just because of the wheel situation is tiny in comparison to the general buying public. I hear what you are saying though - the PS3 with GT5 and its logitech wheel compatibility offer a somewhat more compelling option to that segment.

Agreed. 'large proportion' was a very silly term to use wasn't it

Microsoft could just pay off Logitech to make a wheel for the 360

 

[TokyoDrift]

Agreed. 'large proportion' was a very silly term to use wasn't it

Microsoft could just pay off Logitech to make a wheel for the 360

Haha! You said it dude!

Having said that, I do find it strange how Microsoft and/or Logitech haven't pusehd the boat out on getting their wheels supported.

 

[Tenacious D]

We'll see how Final Fantasy XIII turns out then, now that the porting is the other way

/Ends

You're obviously behind on your reading, because it's been commonly discussed since 2007 that it's easier to port from a PS3 dev kit to a 360 dev kit and get stellar results, rather than the other way round.

Anyway, it does see that the Forza 3 physics are having a tough time between the GT and PC sim crowds. It seems to me, and of course this is an opinion as I'm no pro racer, that there's a sort of envelope in which it feels that cars are more glued to the road, say above 60mph or so, as if all cars have some downforce. I know there are times when I'm flying around a track and I seem like I'm going way too fast when I sneak a look at the speedo. Then, slowing down to take a turn, low speed handling seems more natural, and I have a better chance of loosing it. May or may not be true, just an observation.

It does seem that all the things that make Forza a community are what make it a big deal. So if you're not into talking smack during a race, or drifting, or making or buying liveries, Forza looses a few points, sometimes a lot. Frankly, I can't imagine anyone who hasn't wanted a certain skin or livery on some of their cars, as every game can only afford so many real life livery licenses. Then again, some can't stand the thought of paying for Live, and that slams the door shut hard, because free Silver won't give you any access to any of that.

I guess you just have to try it, and not go by the experience of the demo, because the game is distinctly better. And with a FFB wheel, any kind of FFB wheel. A hand controller will just leave you feeling like you've played Burnout.

 

[Lucas]

I don't think Forza 3 has suppressed anyone's appetite, the game has been a complete and utter commercial failure. It has sold a pathetic amount of copies.

Forza 3 was a commercial success and was praised by critics. Critics applauded the limitless levels of customization, and higher level of realism. IGN called it 'One of the best racing games to ever be produced'. Criticism mainly stemmed from the lack of AI opponents on track (only 7), minor visual glitches, and the cockpit view being too close to the steering wheel.

Personally, I'd rather trust Wikipedia.

 

[Kryz11]

How many copies so far FM3 sold? I wonder, last time ive seen it was bad sales ... don't tell me everyone got NFS Shift..

 

[deep_sky]

Forza's numbers in the NPD's seemed a little low all things considered. Though it was at the end of the month, so next month the numbers may rise. It's been strong in the UK though. T10 have said that Europe is their biggest market, much like GT is for PD.

Tenacious, you well know that FFXIII was once being coded specifically and solely for PS3, so the difference is marked, as SE would never have thought about how they were going to port it to the 360, as a 360 version wasn't in their plans.

 

[lalaurentide]

Agreed. 'large proportion' was a very silly term to use wasn't it

Microsoft could just pay off Logitech to make a wheel for the 360

Actually a simple dashboard/console software upgrade would make the wheels compatible (except the wireless ones), if it's PC compatible it's easy to implement since it's basically a HID device, the PC software is mostly for 900degree support, who's to blame microsoft or logitech i don't know, but it can be done, and it wouldn't take long either.

Personally, I'd rather trust Wikipedia.

Personnaly, i'd rather trust gamespot and NPD's numbers. Forza 3, 8th place with 175 000 copies sold in United States, that's not a commercial succes, Uncharted 2 with three times more is a success. With Modern Warfare 2 in november i wouldn't be surprise if Forza 2 doesn't make the top10.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6240125.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3

 

[IsmokeGT]

Personally, I'd rather trust Wikipedia.

You understand anyone can go on Wiki and put their 2 cents in, right? Anyone being a Forza fanboy, or even a MS employee... Never trust Wiki! BUT you can check their sources, and see if they are legit