Has Forza 3 suppressed you appetite for GT5?

[Seismica]

And this bundling will inflate GT sales heavily. But I doubt GT supporters will complain if it helps it outsell Forza.

I will bet my house GT5 will outsellf Forza 3, bundled or not.

Considering I have seen many members here saying that they will buy GT5 if only because it is GT, and because they have waited too long to buy it, I don't find that impressive... Yes, it had over 1 million preorders before it was released. Two years have passed since it was released. It has over 4 million copies sold right now. How come it had 1 million preorders before release, but it has sold "just" 3 millions after it's release? My view on it is that those 1 million preorders were from hardcore GT fans, or at least those who could preorder the game (GT fans with money).

I am going to buy it because i have played since GT1 and have never been disappointed with any of the sequels. I suspect i won't be disappointed come GT5 next year either. Isn't that why everyone buys sequels; because they liked the previous game?

If you are new to the genre or the game title, you will go off reviews and recommendations. But if you had the previous game (and liked it), and know a little bit of info about the next release, then of course you are going to buy it just because its a game you like.

Besides, the prologue versions have always been for the GT fans... But the main game will be mainstream. GT5 prologue sucks overall as a racing game. But people bought it to get a taster for GT5.

But i can understand where people are coming from, Forza 3, the 3rd game in a series, its predecessor was the best racing game of its time (debateable, but for 2007 i feel it was). So the game brand is not the issue, Forza had already made its mark. Yet it sold so few in its first days, and yet theres people coming on a GT forum defending it. Sales don't show a games' quality, but considering the good reviews Forza has been getting, and comparing it to the bad reviews GT5P was getting, it doesn't seem logical to me that Forza has been outsold by a demo (i think FM3 will almost certainly overtake GT5P in the long term, but if 1 million pre-orders is correct, then it has a long way to catch up).

 

[happycorey]

Here in Greece we have the 7th season of Top Gear. So what do I do to watch the latest season 14 episode? I DOWNLOAD THE EPISODE OR WATCH IT ONLINE:idea:

Haha, I'm guilty of it as well. We're only up to the 12th season in the US though.

 

[Patrocles]

I don't have an Xbox360 so I have not played Forza3.

 

[happycorey]

It's not a game you should go out of your way for. If you have a friend who has a 360 and he has it give it a try.

 

[Seismica]

It's not a game you should go out of your way for. If you have a friend who has a 360 and he has it give it a try.

If you already have a 360 and enjoy racing games in general (not just sim racers) Then Forza 3 is a good buy. But like you said, don't go out of your way. if you don't have a 360, don't get one just for this one game, its not worth it (although GT5 is worth buying a PS3 for lol, in my opinion.)

 

[chepe371]

It's not a game you should go out of your way for. If you have a friend who has a 360 and he has it give it a try.

Or if you live ina big enough city you can go to the Game Cafe andplay it for a few hours.

 

[happycorey]

If you already have a 360 and enjoy racing games in general (not just sim racers) Then Forza 3 is a good buy. But like you said, don't go out of your way. if you don't have a 360, don't get one just for this one game, its not worth it (although GT5 is worth buying a PS3 for lol, in my opinion.)

In all honesty it is worth buying a PS3 for though. At least I hope it's going to be worth it since that's why I bought my PS3

 

[hardvibes]

It's not a game you should go out of your way for. If you have a friend who has a 360 and he has it give it a try.

I did buy the 360 just for fm3 (elite bundle) and to be honest the console is turned off for quite some time now.
Yes I have many friends to play with on xbl but the game itself is so freaking boring with the pad. Even the career mode is boring. I'm at R3 races (4th year or season, I can't remember)....I don't feel like going on and all those unknown soundtracks, minimalist white menus and complex livery editor give me headaches.
As I already said this game has no soul. It's a shell, it's empty.

About the livery editor: it is so slow, it takes ages and hundres of useless layers to create something good, while with nfs prostreet on pc (with a MOUSE, of course) I could create masterpieces in no time. The result? I don't enjoy making liveries in fm3. It's a waste of time.

fm3 NEEDS a decent wheel in order to enjoy it but
1) my dfgt is not compatible, of course
2) the 99 euros official 360 wheel is disgusting
3) I don't feel like paying 350 to 500 euros for the fanatec multiplatform wheel

Final note: I desperately need Gran Turismo.

 

[happycorey]

I did buy the 360 just for fm3 (elite bundle) and to be honest the console is turned off for quite some time now.
Yes I have many friends to play with on xbl but the game itself is so freaking boring with the pad. Even the career mode is boring. I'm at R3 races (4th year or season, I can't remember)....I don't feel like going on and all those unknown soundtracks, minimalist white menus and complex livery editor give me headaches.
As I already said this game has no soul. It's a shell, it's empty.

About the livery editor: it is so slow, it takes ages and hundres of useless layers to create something good, while with nfs prostreet on pc (with a MOUSE, of course) I could create masterpieces in no time. The result? I don't enjoy making liveries in fm3. It's a waste of time.

I hope you enjoy other Xbox titles because I think there is a lot flawed with the system and how MS runs things, but that is for another thread topic.

Practically all of my friends who play games are on Xbox, but I still wouldn't get one. I only have 2 friends on my PSN and I don't even play games with them, which I am fine with honestly, because I enjoy my games regardless of my friend count.

However I really only play racing games with a DS3, and it's fine for me. I'm not going to spend 100~ on a wheel with no where to put it when I have just enough fun with the controller, but I agree on so many of your points. The livery editor is cool that it's better than FM2 (in what ways I honestly don't know) but in the short 12 straight hours I played it I didn't want to fool with it, I just wanted to race. Which I found lifeless and never ending. Even a measly 5 laps I dreaded just to make some extra bucks, and within the first 'season' I guess I was already tired of playing the game..

I hope there is a livery editor in GT5, but I honestly don't care to sit around for hours creating some design like people have endlessly done in FM2. I'll add a couple things here and there, but I'm not looking for an award winning paintjob.

 

[Terronium-12]

I did buy the 360 just for fm3 (elite bundle) and to be honest the console is turned off for quite some time now.
Yes I have many friends to play with on xbl but the game itself is so freaking boring with the pad. Even the career mode is boring. I'm at R3 races (4th year or season, I can't remember)....I don't feel like going on and all those unknown soundtracks, minimalist white menus and complex livery editor give me headaches.
As I already said this game has no soul. It's a shell, it's empty.

Can't really comment on the last thought being it's an opinion, but it seems you've grown too accustomed to Gran Turismo where you haven't done anything as of late but race, buy, tune, modify (to a degree) and that's pretty much it. I can, however, share your opinion on the boredom as I haven't really "felt" Forza until now, the first two had their run and that run ended somewhere in mid-30's as far as the driver levels are concerned, but with FM3 I'm on Lv. 48 (would be at 50 already had I not kept taking pictures, working on liveries, messing around at the Benchmark Ring, etc...) there's just so much more to do in FM3 - you don't need a wheel to enjoy it, it's what you make of it.

About the livery editor: it is so slow, it takes ages and hundres of useless layers to create something good, while with nfs prostreet on pc (with a MOUSE, of course) I could create masterpieces in no time. The result? I don't enjoy making liveries in fm3. It's a waste of time.

And the livery editor in any NFS game compared to Forza is extremely lackluster, of course you could punch out a "masterpiece" in no time, everything is already laid out right there for you. I wonder why you feel it's a waste of time...

 

[Tenacious D]

Yet another example of why I hesitate to harp on everyone getting this game. I'll push it a little, but really, because of so many naysayers, I don't want to be responsible for anyone shelling out up to $530 US on a racing rig for one game they'll end up hating.

Terronium is with a bunch of us in the dreaded Forza section having a blast with the paint shop, but it's obviously not for everyone. Even being able to buy incredible, authentic racing liveries from the Storefront isn't a joy for everyone. The physics are rather close to Prologues, but still different enough that people flat out don't like them. If you have to have GT handling-slash-PC sim feel... Forza 3 might cause adverse reactions. This is why I just say, give it a try, fool around with everything you can, including the paint shop. Then if you don't care for it, fair enough.

 

[Jay]

I don't understand how racing games don't sell very well here, for that matter I don't understand how the US is the only country (that I'm aware of) that doesn't see Top Gear unless it's from several seasons ago.

Depends on the racing games, I think usual NFS series, midnight club and other similar games do sell quite well in the US.

 

[MowTin]

I'm having a blast with this game. Online you can some really tight races. I'm talking bumper to bumper.

You can spend tons of time just tuning your car and taking it on the benchmark ring to see if you've improved it.

I hope GT5 has a benchmark track too.

I usually can't wait to come home and play Forza 3. So, for me it's really helping to pass the time till GT5.

What worries me is that GT5 will come out and it won't have the same solid multiplayer or tuning options.

The multiplayer matchmaking in GT5P was a terrible system compared to FM3.

 

[sejtur]

I'm having a blast with this game. Online you can some really tight races. I'm talking bumper to bumper.

You can spend tons of time just tuning your car and taking it on the benchmark ring to see if you've improved it.

I hope GT5 has a benchmark track too.

I usually can't wait to come home and play Forza 3. So, for me it's really helping to pass the time till GT5.

What worries me is that GT5 will come out and it won't have the same solid multiplayer or tuning options.

The multiplayer matchmaking in GT5P was a terrible system compared to FM3.

There are also such races in GT5P, very cool. 👍
What is a benchmark track?
What's so special about the tuning in F3?
KY said that the online will be big and there is alot of tuning possible, but if you want to worry about it, go ahead.

 

[McLaren]

There are also such races in GT5P, very cool. 👍
What is a benchmark track?
What's so special about the tuning in F3?
KY said that the online will be big and there is alot of tuning possible, but if you want to worry about it, go ahead.

He gave his opinion on FM3, not a post asking for someone to compare GT5....

 

[sejtur]

He gave his opinion on FM3, not a post asking for someone to compare GT5....

I know, but that doesn't say that I can't ask stuff about a game that I don't own. I'm just curious about that benchmark thing and the tuning, or is that forbidden? And where did I compare GT5 with FM3?

 

[RAVELLRON]

yesterday evening i tried fz3 to my friend...
it's a huge game like fz2 was, but the driveability for me is purely arcade...

 

[hardvibes]

And the livery editor in any NFS game compared to Forza is extremely lackluster, of course you could punch out a "masterpiece" in no time, everything is already laid out right there for you. I wonder why you feel it's a waste of time...

I beg you pardon? No, prostreet's livery editor is so different compared to previous nfs, and no it's not already laid out. By "no time" I mean 4-5 hours. Too bad I'm not on nfsunlimited anymore you would have been impressed.

What about fm3 lack of matte paintjob/paintjob for evey single body part/bi-colored rims/WHITE rims?

 

[TokyoDrift]

There are also such races in GT5P, very cool. 👍
What is a benchmark track?
What's so special about the tuning in F3?
KY said that the online will be big and there is alot of tuning possible, but if you want to worry about it, go ahead.

Did he say GT5P does not offer such close racing?
You know exactly what a benchmark track is - a test track to benchmark times against.
The tuning in F3 is far in advance of that in GT5P. He is hoping that GT5 exceeds or at least matches that in F3. Obvious, no?
KY said a lot of things...

Far from him worrying, I'd say the one with issues is yourself in not letting other people express their opinions and hopes without getting ripped to pieces.

 

[Seismica]

The tuning in F3 is far in advance of that in GT5P. He is hoping that GT5 exceeds or at least matches that in F3. Obvious, no?

It is indeed a lot better than GT5P. But GT5P and GTPSP use the 'quick tune' options. They are not an accurate indication of the tuning that will be in the full game as you know.

Having not owned FM2 or FM3, i want you to give me a run down on what tuning options Forza offers (I have played both, FM2 a lot, but i didn't get a go at tuning a car, just lots of racing).

I know you get Engine and Drivetrain swaps and that is a huge bonus, but what further tuning options does it have (That previous GTs didn't)? Aerodynamic customisation/tuning has been mentioned by kazunori many times and i feel it is pretty much confirmed, as is some sort of Visual body part customisation. The livery Editor is solely visual (has no affect on performance, not even go faster stripes, or weight increase from the thick layers of paint lol ) and i don't count it as 'tuning', but it is something Forza does have that at this point looks unlikely in GT5.

 

[sejtur]

Did he say GT5P does not offer such close racing?
You know exactly what a benchmark track is - a test track to benchmark times against.
The tuning in F3 is far in advance of that in GT5P. He is hoping that GT5 exceeds or at least matches that in F3. Obvious, no?
KY said a lot of things...

Far from him worrying, I'd say the one with issues is yourself in not letting other people express their opinions and hopes without getting ripped to pieces.

You misunderstood me. The question I asked weren't rhetorical, so I don't mean to offend the people that like F3. I didn't mean to rip him to pieces with my post, I just want to know more about the game.. sheesh... I wanna know what things I am missing, like the tuning part. I know ish about tuning in F3, so I asked about it. What's wrong with that? Please clarify. My english is not the best, a "benchmark ring" doesn't say so much to me either, so I ask about it.

And you say "The tuning in F3 is far in advance of that in GT5P". Then I ask "what is advanced?" I really don't know so please help me out. If you say "advanced" I don't know what you really mean by that, you know? So what is so special about the tuning in F3 that it is advanced?

Somebody states things about a game and I ask them about it out of curiosity. So that is ripping people apart? Thanks for letting me know, then I won't ask anymore in the future.

Mow Tin could you answer my questions please?

 

[TokyoDrift]

It is indeed a lot better than GT5P. But GT5P and GTPSP use the 'quick tune' options. They are not an accurate indication of the tuning that will be in the full game as you know.

I know, but we do not have GT5 yet, and all we have is what KY has mentioned, which can hardly be taken as confirmation these days.

@sejtur, hindsight is a wonderful thing eh?

 

[sejtur]

I know, but we do not have GT5 yet, and all we have is what KY has mentioned, which can hardly be taken as confirmation these days.

@sejtur, hindsight is a wonderful thing eh?

What is hindsight?

 

[Terronium-12]

Having not owned FM2 or FM3, i want you to give me a run down on what tuning options Forza offers (I have played both, FM2 a lot, but i didn't get a go at tuning a car, just lots of racing).

I know you get Engine and Drivetrain swaps and that is a huge bonus, but what further tuning options does it have (That previous GTs didn't)? Aerodynamic customisation/tuning has been mentioned by kazunori many times and i feel it is pretty much confirmed, as is some sort of Visual body part customisation. The livery Editor is solely visual (has no affect on performance, not even go faster stripes, or weight increase from the thick layers of paint lol ) and i don't count it as 'tuning', but it is something Forza does have that at this point looks unlikely in GT5.

Let's see, in FM3 you have the following upgrades available to you...

- Air filter
- Fuel system
- Ignition
- Exhaust
- Camshaft
- Valves
- Displacement
- Pistons and Compression
- Single/Twin-turbo
- Twin-scew/Centrifugal superchargers
- Intercooler
- Oil and Cooling
- Flywheel
- Brakes
- Dampers
- F and R anti-roll bars
- Roll cage
- Weight reduction
- Clutch
- Transmission
- Driveline (Driveshaft)
- Differential
- Tire compound
- F and R tire width
- F and R rim size
- Rim style
- Aero and appearance
- Conversion

...And that's not including everything within those "tabs", so to speak.

Now most of these are in Gran Turismo and some aren't, but, in my opinion the upgrades in FM are far more ideal as you have more of a canvas to work on than in GT. As in some of those upgrades are bundled with other upgrades (i.e. NA Stage(s)) so you really have no option what you want to put on, with this you can single out certain parts and only upgrade what you want.

 

[Seismica]

Let's see, in FM3 you have the following upgrades available to you...

- Air filter
- Fuel system
- Ignition
- Exhaust
- Camshaft
- Valves
- Displacement
- Pistons and Compression
- Single/Twin-turbo
- Twin-scew/Centrifugal superchargers
- Intercooler
- Oil and Cooling
- Flywheel
- Brakes
- Dampers
- F and R anti-roll bars
- Roll cage
- Weight reduction
- Clutch
- Transmission
- Driveline (Driveshaft)
- Differential
- Tire compound
- F and R tire width
- F and R rim size
- Rim style
- Aero and appearance
- Conversion

...And that's not including everything within those "tabs", so to speak.

Now most of these are in Gran Turismo and some aren't, but, in my opinion the upgrades in FM are far more ideal as you have more of a canvas to work on than in GT. As in some of those upgrades are bundled with other upgrades (i.e. NA Stage(s)) so you really have no option what you want to put on, with this you can single out certain parts and only upgrade what you want.

A lot of those are simplified, or are included in the tuning packages you get in GT4. But i do see now, it is a lot more in depth in Forza. Hopefully PD will follow suit rather than going for the same tuning from previous games (with the stage 1-4 turbos and so on).

In the past engine and drivetrain swaps havn't been in GT, the closest you can get is to 'hybrid' a car (not so sure how you do this, but basically you can create a Subara 360 with the power and handling capabilites - but it is not in the game, you have to do it by modifying save files and/or code)

I know, but we do not have GT5 yet, and all we have is what KY has mentioned, which can hardly be taken as confirmation these days.

Considering the tuning has been wholly the same in GT1,2,3 and 4; i think the tuning we got in those games would be the minimum we expect. I very much doubt they will dumb it down to the quick tuning we saw in GT5P. If the tuning is only like GT5P, i would refuse to buy the game, because tuning cars is a big aspect of driving games and we expect it to be in GT5 in a form similar to GT4 or better. GTPSP didn't have the usual tuning for various reasons. GT5P didn't because it is a demo.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

I'm a long time Forza player, new to this site, and somewhat surpised to see that a thread like this exists here.

I obviously haven't read the whole thread, but in the last few pages I've seen tuning being mentioned as one of the areas some feel is stronger than the GT series. Now, I haven't played any GT games since 2. But I'd like to express my opinion of the tuning on FM2 before hitting a larger point. Simply put, it is more, but less at the same time. You do have a myriad of parts options, engine swaps, drivetrain swaps and stuff to choose from. There definitely seems to be more options in how to build your cars than I've read about with GT5. That being said, tuning is not at all realistic. Tuning is pretty standard, in that the same basic setup works for just about everything and the best way to tune a car doesn't follow in line with what would be done in real world. I'm no expert by any stretch in knowing what real world tuning techniques work. But I'm pretty sure that max tire pressures, 1 and 2 gear setups, max stiffness spring settings and 100 percent stiff front ARB's and 100 percent soft rear ARB's are not realistic at all. This is what works in the Forza tuning. I imagine if you tried to apply the same sort of settings to a real world car, you'd have yourself a pretty much un-driveable car, that certainly wouldn't be fast.

It's funny though. There seems to be more than a few people here who I would assume are long time GT players who think that FM3 has suppressed their appetite for GT5. Meanwhile, over at the Forza forums, the horrible decisions they've made in taking the game away from being a racer and towards being a paint your car and show off your pictures and videos on YouTube game has many people, like myself, finding ourselves now with a huge appetite for GT5. Ironic.

PD has a opportunity here, and I do hope they've been paying attention to the uproar over at FM.net over the many issues that in alot of the long time Forza hardcore's eyes are killing the game.

I won't go into them all, but here's the 3 main things that have me looking forward to the release of GT5, where just a mere month ago, all I wanted was Forza.

1. There are no more real racing classes. In FM2 you had 4 real racing classes where real world race cars were grouped. These cars were replica's of many of the greats from LeMans and the ALMS. These cars could not be upgraded, painted or tuned. They were as close to sim racing as you could get on the game, and I, along with many others loved them. They still have what they are calling R classes. But now they've allowed upgrades/downgrades to all of them and have allowed max upgraded production class cars into mix as well. Predictably, this has left the real world racing cars in the dust, they have no chance.

2. The PI system is more flawed than it's ever been. AWD dominates everything on the game. The PI system has been designed so that it's a performance advantage to swap drivetrains of RWD cars to AWD. Take a look around, and you'll see nothing but AWD Dodge Vipers, Ford GT's and even AWD 60's American Muscle classics dominating every single leaderboard. And by extension, dominating every single online race. RWD cars have no chance.

3. Matchmaking multiplayer. The great thing about FM2 was the ability to set up a lobby how you wanted it and people could then search that out and join. That ability is gone, replaced with the matchmaking system that limits choice to a handful of classes, random tracks and a predetermined number of laps. They also withheld this information till release, and made deceiving public statements that they were just going to add things for FM3 without taking away any of the functionality that the core users had come to expect. Needless to say, this has caused a huge uproar among the Forza faithful and has sold more PS3's and copies of GT5 than any long term Forza fan could have of ever imagined.

There's a long laundry list of other complaints I won't get into. I just hope that the folks at PD are paying attention to this. They have a opportunity here to crush T10. And given Dan Greenwalt's arrogant and disrespectful attitude and underhanded tactics in regard to PD, I would think they're looking to put T10 out of business.

Give GT5 public custom lobbies, realistic and balanced classing and a more direct commitment to making the racing the prime focus of the game and you can expect a huge influx of former Forza fanatics like myself showing up here in the coming months.

 

[Tenacious D]

GT4 has tuning options about as deep as Forza. I think the only thing Forza has on GT4 is caster, the difference from zero degrees vertical for the wheel suspension shaft, but hardly anyone knows how to use caster changes effectively. Also, the transmission gears in racing transmissions are freely settable, vs a range of gearing in GT4 and Prologue, except for the final gear for the drivetrain which is the same. Also, Forza lets you freely save tunes and assign them names, so you can have a performance set up for every single track in the game. GT4 only gives you three slots, but it also gives you the choice to select every modification available for those slots, including tires and engine upgrades, which is very cool. But because of this, GT5 needs a lot more tuning saves than just three. One thing GT4 has over Forza is allowing you to play with the weight distribution of your car, something I should have tried with mid- and rear engined cars.

As you noted, engine and drivetrain swaps are included, though they really get carried away with the drivetrain swaps, available on almost every car. 4WD cars have an extreme and unfair advantage in Forza.

Curiously, you could also adjust downforce in GT4, even if you didn't have a nose splitter or tail wing installed.

 

[Seismica]

Curiously, you could also adjust downforce in GT4, even if you didn't have a nose splitter or tail wing installed.

In GT4 you could only adjust downforce on cars with aerodynamic parts equipped. The ones that you could change came pre-installed with aero parts, visible or not. For others, you had to buy a rear wing (although for some reason, a rear wing give you downforce for the front, which i don't think is entirely accurate - So just assumed buying a wing is like buying an aerodynamic package). Some cars could have both, like the Tommykaira ZZII, which has some aero adjustment options initially, and you can buy a wing which just adds to it.

They really need to improve the aerodynamic adjustments for GT5. A lot of high end race cars rely on Aerodynamic grip more than mechanical grip so GT needs to take this into account rather than just putting a half arsed wing setup in the game.

 

[TokyoDrift]

What is hindsight?

http://tinyurl.com/ybmj49a

 

[sejtur]

http://tinyurl.com/ybmj49a

I still don't get it. English is not my 1st language, so please understand that I don't get phrases like that. Could you explain it yourself in the appropriate context?