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Especially due to recent events, does anyone feel that a game that glorifies murdering policemen and firemen and military personnel might be a little distasteful at this time?
Has this game gone too far?
- Thread starter TAFJonathan
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We have to keep in mind who -WE- are though. We are educated adults. Those of us who realize that the game is distasteful are the ones who won't take it seriously, and know it's wrong. But, that's comeing from one of us.
If you allow children to play games like this, you end up with comic strips like this:
I want that first frame on the back of a T-Shirt with the PA logo as the front pocket logo.
~LoudMusic
Is it really any worse than some of the movie content of the last couple of years?
That said, it is probably pushing the envelope, and probably highlights the shortcomings in Government ratings of electronic materials.
...and yes, I do enjoy it. I try to avoid killing cops (unless it's in the mission) - I prefer to work that game low-key.
That said, it is probably pushing the envelope, and probably highlights the shortcomings in Government ratings of electronic materials.
...and yes, I do enjoy it. I try to avoid killing cops (unless it's in the mission) - I prefer to work that game low-key.
Jon
(Banned)
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Originally posted by LoudMusic
We have to keep in mind who -WE- are though. We are educated adults. Those of us who realize that the game is distasteful are the ones who won't take it seriously, and know it's wrong. But, that's comeing from one of us.
If you allow children to play games like this, you end up with comic strips like this:
I want that first frame on the back of a T-Shirt with the PA logo as the front pocket logo.
~LoudMusic
I agree. But I also know right from wrong and I will not be stupid and go out on the streets and do this.
- 3,823
While I do love playing this game, I do think that lot's of things about it go way too far. Yes we can all say that only bad parents with stupid kids will cause the problems, but the fact is, they exist in spades. Media does influence people, and that's just the way life is. I think that the movie was called "the program", but I remember two kids laying on the side of the road, during high traffic times (as in the movie) and getting run over. I also remember reading that when "The fast and the furious" came out there was something like a 400% increase in racing related accidents here on the island. And when Dante's Peak came out, there was something like a 47% increase in Volcanic eruptions worldwide. 
No, I don't think that they should censor the games, or dumb them down, but I do believe that the rating system needs to be enforced as it is for movies. (around here it's fairly strict anyway...) Overall the effect will be better for all of us, because games that would otherwise have been "softened" will remain as they were intended, and the only whiners will be the little kids boo hooing that they can't play because they aren't old enough. Do I want an 11 year old to see Pulp Fiction? No... and what goes on in GTA3 makes that movie look like an episode of "The Care bears." That same 11 year old can go into Block buster(I know, because I've seen it) and rent any game he wants. He can also buy any game he wants from most stores as well. That to me doens't make any sense. If a kid can't see a movie with the F-word more than one time throughout, why can he play a Video game that shows Thousands of murders (policeman included), public urination, solicitation of prostitutes, drugs, and has a felony as the games Maguffin.
It's a two sided issue, and It's up to both the industry and the parents to work things out, as neither side can be wholly responsible for what kids are doing. (And don't put it all on the parents, because all of us well know that with a little effort, kids can put anything past parents... well, almost anything.)
Well, like I said, I really enjoy the game, and I'm glad that everything that was put in the game remained in the game, but it still bothers me just a little bit that when I recommended the game, I've had to append the phrase "unless you have kids..."
No, I don't think that they should censor the games, or dumb them down, but I do believe that the rating system needs to be enforced as it is for movies. (around here it's fairly strict anyway...) Overall the effect will be better for all of us, because games that would otherwise have been "softened" will remain as they were intended, and the only whiners will be the little kids boo hooing that they can't play because they aren't old enough. Do I want an 11 year old to see Pulp Fiction? No... and what goes on in GTA3 makes that movie look like an episode of "The Care bears." That same 11 year old can go into Block buster(I know, because I've seen it) and rent any game he wants. He can also buy any game he wants from most stores as well. That to me doens't make any sense. If a kid can't see a movie with the F-word more than one time throughout, why can he play a Video game that shows Thousands of murders (policeman included), public urination, solicitation of prostitutes, drugs, and has a felony as the games Maguffin.
It's a two sided issue, and It's up to both the industry and the parents to work things out, as neither side can be wholly responsible for what kids are doing. (And don't put it all on the parents, because all of us well know that with a little effort, kids can put anything past parents... well, almost anything.)
Well, like I said, I really enjoy the game, and I'm glad that everything that was put in the game remained in the game, but it still bothers me just a little bit that when I recommended the game, I've had to append the phrase "unless you have kids..."
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Originally posted by Tom McDonnell
While I do love playing this game, I do think that lot's of things about it go way too far. Yes we can all say that only bad parents with stupid kids will cause the problems, but the fact is, they exist in spades. Media does influence people, and that's just the way life is. I think that the movie was called "the program", but I remember two kids laying on the side of the road, during high traffic times (as in the movie) and getting run over. I also remember reading that when "The fast and the furious" came out there was something like a 400% increase in racing related accidents here on the island. And when Dante's Peak came out, there was something like a 47% increase in Volcanic eruptions worldwide.
No, I don't think that they should censor the games, or dumb them down, but I do believe that the rating system needs to be enforced as it is for movies. (around here it's fairly strict anyway...) Overall the effect will be better for all of us, because games that would otherwise have been "softened" will remain as they were intended, and the only whiners will be the little kids boo hooing that they can't play because they aren't old enough. Do I want an 11 year old to see Pulp Fiction? No... and what goes on in GTA3 makes that movie look like an episode of "The Care bears." That same 11 year old can go into Block buster(I know, because I've seen it) and rent any game he wants. He can also buy any game he wants from most stores as well. That to me doens't make any sense. If a kid can't see a movie with the F-word more than one time throughout, why can he play a Video game that shows Thousands of murders (policeman included), public urination, solicitation of prostitutes, drugs, and has a felony as the games Maguffin.
It's a two sided issue, and It's up to both the industry and the parents to work things out, as neither side can be wholly responsible for what kids are doing. (And don't put it all on the parents, because all of us well know that with a little effort, kids can put anything past parents... well, almost anything.)
Well, like I said, I really enjoy the game, and I'm glad that everything that was put in the game remained in the game, but it still bothers me just a little bit that when I recommended the game, I've had to append the phrase "unless you have kids..."
I like your style, man. I really like your style.
We've finally gotten rating systems on television and games in the USA. Probably the only thing good that Clinton did during his stay at the White House. The problem is, like a lot of our laws, it's not enforced. It's basically a visual warning for the parents. But how many parents realize that there is even a rating system on these "kids games"? I'd venture, not many. I believe, not sure, that the digital television broadcasts have easy ways of locking out shows by their rating. But that requires purchasing digital television, which not many people can do.
As far as who's responsibility it is ... it starts with the parents, and if they do their job correctly then 'society' shouldn't be able to have too big of an effect on our children. A simple promis to our children, "If you see, hear, feel, smell, or sense anything that you don't understand, come ask ME and I'll explain it the best I can". But as parents, we have to be honest and available. If you lack either quality, your kids will start looking for answers somewhere else. And that's when the trouble starts.
Arrrr .... gotta go eat.
Good thread .... thanks Stealth Viper (:
~LoudMusic
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:blush:
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Partly. And that is reflective of what I was going to say. It's because of the increase in marketing and acceptance. It's more popular. More people know about it. The media got a hold of it. The media kills everything. I wasn't being terrorized by thoughts of my little down being blown away until about the third week of CNN replaying the towers burning and showing all their statistics.
~LoudMusic
True - great headline from the local Newscorp crapsheet on Sunday (about the Australian Al-Qaeda fighter that got captured) - WILL DAD BLOW UP AUSTRALIA?
Actually, re the replays - the Australian Broadcasting Tribunal jumped right on the replays after a week and basically told the TV stations that repeating the replays was traumatic and distasteful, and please stop playing them gratuitously - and they did!
- 3,823
Yes, that is probably why they are getting this much attention anyway. Added realism does bring the game closer to real life, but I don't really worry about emulation of things in games as I do about long term effects...
Take Pulp Fiction for example (Figured I'd recycle it from my last post
) The first time I saw it, I laughed so hard it hurt at times. When I went back a few days later and saw it again, it was funny, but not nearly as funny as the first time. Now that I have seen it on video, there are only a few scenes that will make me laugh, and probably not out loud. Why is this? Desensitization. The first time through you get shock value, or the element of surprise, the second time you know it's coming, and by the twentieth time, it more or less ho-hum. 
The same thing goes for violence and such in movies and games (and everywhere else) If a kid sees Wiley coyote get whacked with a mallet, it isn't that big of a deal. When he sees Mel Gibson get his toes crushed with a mallet in Payback, it is. It's all about Realism. Watch thousands of similar images over the course of several years, and you begin to see a kid that is less affected by the death of a real human being, as the false images have been conveyed across the same television screen for many years in VG, TV, and movie format.For a normal child, all this is negated by good parenting, and healthy doses of the Harry Potter movie. For an emotionally disturbed child, I'd watch out come Wednesday when FFX comes out, because he might blow up you garage with an Ifrit attack...
To sum up, single instances of violence are bad, but not as bad as prolonged exposure. Why? Because desensitization causes people to care less about things that should shock them. And that's bad because none of us should laugh when somebody slips on ice while Christmas shopping, but so often do....
Good point.
I guess this debate is indicative of just how quickly the Video Game as entertainment has come in the last 20 years - does anyone remember the R rated game for the Atari 2600? - you could have quite safely given it to your kids, the graphics were so bad.
I personally think this material is too strong for an M rating - I have no issue with the Australian Office of Film and Literature not giving it an MA rating, I think they were right.
The issue is that there is no R rating available.
This is a failing on behalf of legislators to understand developments in the gaming market. Many people who buy PS2's (in Australia, at least, as they're quite dear) are in their 20's, 30's and over. It will be the same for Xbox and has been true of the PC for sometime now.
I think a case can be put together for allowing an R rating for Video Game content - those of us who want it can get it, and parents can better restrict kids' access to it.
The 'restriction of availability to minors' issues are going to be no worse than those currently faced by video, DVD and printed formats.
I guess this debate is indicative of just how quickly the Video Game as entertainment has come in the last 20 years - does anyone remember the R rated game for the Atari 2600? - you could have quite safely given it to your kids, the graphics were so bad.
I personally think this material is too strong for an M rating - I have no issue with the Australian Office of Film and Literature not giving it an MA rating, I think they were right.
The issue is that there is no R rating available.
This is a failing on behalf of legislators to understand developments in the gaming market. Many people who buy PS2's (in Australia, at least, as they're quite dear) are in their 20's, 30's and over. It will be the same for Xbox and has been true of the PC for sometime now.
I think a case can be put together for allowing an R rating for Video Game content - those of us who want it can get it, and parents can better restrict kids' access to it.
The 'restriction of availability to minors' issues are going to be no worse than those currently faced by video, DVD and printed formats.
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What about a system that requires a certain age and ID to purchase. Simular to cigarette and alcohol laws in the US. We (US theators) require ID to see PG-13 and R movies without an adult. I think anything with a rating system should be better inforced. They could even split up the games/movies/albums by their rating and lock up the ones that "aren't appropriate". It wouldn't bother me, but I'm already "of age" anyway. I guess you just have to decide how much of our sacred freedom you're willing to sacrifice. If it means keeping kids from growing up thinking they can smash into other people on the road (myself included) I'm willing to have to ask a sales person to unlock a cabinate so I can grab a game. I don't mind showing my ID either. And (as I recall ...) I felt the same way when I was underaged. I looked at my friends and realized how bad of an idea it was to let them play things like Grand Theft Auto. They seemed to enjoy it just a little too much ... a calm pleasure that was deeper than just the smile and laugh.
Anyway, this stuff needs to be rated. The ratings need to be enforced. And the parents need to know what they're buying for their children. I'd almost be in favor of forced parenting classes, if it didn't make matters even worse. But maybe that's the problem - parents who THINK they know better.
~LoudMusic
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I think that it's a question of context. The game has an 18 rating in the UK, which is the highest you can get for a non-sexual media item, so the censors have done the most they can, as there would be a much bigger outcry if they were to just ban the game outright.
As someone has already pointed out, we are all mature adults, and we know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, etc. If anyone is to feel that this game is telling them to go out on the streets and do this for real, then that person is pyschologically unstable, and was merely waiting for a trigger. Maybe this game would act as a trigger, but it is no bigger risk than a lot of the news stories we see every day.
If there are under 18s playing this game then that fault lies with society, in that parents no longer feel that they have to obey age ratings; most treat them as suggestions rather than law. My girlfriend's sister is 13 (only just 13 I hasten to add) and is receiving, from her mum, two 18 rated videos for Christmas. When I asked her mum why, the response was "well she couldn't see them at the cinema 'cos she's too young". When you are up against a society that breeds that thought, anything 'adult' orientated is a risk. Yet, does that mean we should no longer have adult themed documentaries, or that most 18 rated films should be banned? No. Likewise, adult orientated games have their place in society, but we as responsible adults should look at them as a privilege, not a right, and respect the responsibilities that come with it.
I think the move from the cartoon-esque top down view to a 3-D view is what has brought this all to light. Let's face it, there is nothing new in the actual storyline or ideas in GTA3 compared to GTA1 and 2, they both had car stealing, killing, rewards for murder, prostitution, mafia, triad, yakuza, gang warfare, etc etc in them, but because it wasn't portrayed realisticly, they were deemed okay. I guess it's like the Itchy and Scratchy cartoons in the Simpsons. As a cartoon cat and mouse, you can get away with it, and show it to kids, but do it with realistic special effects, and it's very dodgy ground
As someone has already pointed out, we are all mature adults, and we know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, etc. If anyone is to feel that this game is telling them to go out on the streets and do this for real, then that person is pyschologically unstable, and was merely waiting for a trigger. Maybe this game would act as a trigger, but it is no bigger risk than a lot of the news stories we see every day.
If there are under 18s playing this game then that fault lies with society, in that parents no longer feel that they have to obey age ratings; most treat them as suggestions rather than law. My girlfriend's sister is 13 (only just 13 I hasten to add) and is receiving, from her mum, two 18 rated videos for Christmas. When I asked her mum why, the response was "well she couldn't see them at the cinema 'cos she's too young". When you are up against a society that breeds that thought, anything 'adult' orientated is a risk. Yet, does that mean we should no longer have adult themed documentaries, or that most 18 rated films should be banned? No. Likewise, adult orientated games have their place in society, but we as responsible adults should look at them as a privilege, not a right, and respect the responsibilities that come with it.
I think the move from the cartoon-esque top down view to a 3-D view is what has brought this all to light. Let's face it, there is nothing new in the actual storyline or ideas in GTA3 compared to GTA1 and 2, they both had car stealing, killing, rewards for murder, prostitution, mafia, triad, yakuza, gang warfare, etc etc in them, but because it wasn't portrayed realisticly, they were deemed okay. I guess it's like the Itchy and Scratchy cartoons in the Simpsons. As a cartoon cat and mouse, you can get away with it, and show it to kids, but do it with realistic special effects, and it's very dodgy ground
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