Have you become the rammer in the game?!

1,375
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Would you honestly prefer this?


There are still crappy penalties that get dished out, but the December-March penalty system/s were much worse.

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. You made contact, got a penalty, you should be more careful and look at how you could’ve avoided an incident.
Granted some you can’t (But it’s not that often let’s be honest), and I agree the time loss was brutal but I would happily go back to that.

edit: I’m not saying it was perfect, I can see the issues with it but I think it’s the best we’ve had, because it did clean up the driving as much as you can expect in an online environment.
Anyone looking for clean racing I’d advise joining some leagues on this forum. I barely race sport mode these days because I can have better racing with members on here. :cheers:
 
Last edited:
39
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
JudgeBerry
Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. You made contact, got a penalty, you should be more careful and look at how you could’ve avoided an incident.
Granted some you can’t (But it’s not that often let’s be honest), and I agree the time loss was brutal but I would happily go back to that.

edit: I’m not saying it was perfect, I can see the issues with it but I think it’s the best we’ve had, because it did clean up the driving as much as you can expect in an online environment.
Anyone looking for clean racing I’d advise joining some leagues on this forum. I barely race sport mode these days because I can have better racing with members on here. :cheers:

Just give a penalty to both cars when someone leaves the track.
 

Stotty

My other car's a Porsche
Premium
8,642
United Kingdom
London
GTP_Stotty
Ive watched a lot of streams over the lockdown period.

I’ve given up watching one individual that streams GTS. His attitude is appalling. He rants like a madman at the slightest contact, and even rants at people who are on a different strategy to him who don’t get out of his way to help his strategy (unless any of this is from someone he thinks is faster than him). But any contact that’s his responsibility is just brushed aside with a quick sorry and a laugh.
 
386
Czech Republic
North Bohemia
Revert back to pre xmas penalty system where it was overly harsh. People actually drove well, and it was simple, don’t touch anyone and you won’t get a penalty. All the Aliens cried because “they’re so good they don’t need a penalty system” and now look where we are.

If I make contact, no matter how small, and pd wanna slap me a penalty for it, I’ll take that on the chin over getting rammed every other race.

Racing is a non contact sport, I don’t know why people forget this.

I have absolutely no problem with getting a penalty for making contact with someone. But I have a big problem with getting a penalty for someone making contact with me and getting away free. That was the real problem back then. It was very easy to get rid of competition with that kind of "penalty system" in place. And that is just not acceptable. At this point (the brink of death of GTS) I'd either go for shared fault or full damage (or both). Except it doesn't really matter what any of us think. PD will do whatever the 🤬 they want anyway. :lol:

I’ve given up watching one individual that streams GTS. His attitude is appalling.

Really? Which one? I'll check him out. Haven't watched a GTS stream (or any GTS video really) in a long time.
 
4,767
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
Ive watched a lot of streams over the lockdown period.

I’ve given up watching one individual that streams GTS. His attitude is appalling. He rants like a madman at the slightest contact, and even rants at people who are on a different strategy to him who don’t get out of his way to help his strategy (unless any of this is from someone he thinks is faster than him). But any contact that’s his responsibility is just brushed aside with a quick sorry and a laugh.

Yes, I'm not a big stream watcher but I wouldn't watch someone like that either. I'd much rather watch a respectful driver, regardless of how fast they (and their opponents) are. 👍

I've seen the entitled attitude on track too, it's easy to spot when racing from the back. That is both from people racing from the back where they just push other, often slower, drivers out of the way and also from the front runners who have fallen back into the pack for whatever reason, they push and whack you as they try to get back to the front because they don't know you and you were behind them before, so you must be slow and not deserving of their respect. They don't even care if you have the fastest lap, you are still holding them up, so they are coming past wherever they want to. :boggled:

It is also amazing how less of a 🤬 some drivers are when big name world tour driver races from the back, a number of drivers are quite happy to not defend (aggressively or otherwise) or just push them off as they pass them but when I tried to follow them through the field it was a much different story. Of course some don't care who they are and just punt them off as they would anyone else, just got to defend that 15th place on lap 2. :lol:

:gtpflag:
 
195
Germany
Germany
Here is a nice video about entitlement: Me fast.
Yes, I am slow, and these fidgeters jumping around in the rear view make me even slower.
This guy obviously feels like he deserves to be in front.
Probably he also thinks my racing line is "blocking" compared to his digital straight-corner-straight driving.
  1. I dodge a bullet in T1.
  2. I "block" him, because this incident has slowed me down.
  3. He flashes. How do they always have a finger free for flashing? Can't even drive MT, flashing takes prority.
  4. He bumps me once, twice.
  5. He hits me intentionally, not enough, has to really go for it on the second try
  6. Success! He happily flashes again.

    The penalty system actually works, detects the punts and gives him 1 and 2 seconds. Not enough, unfortunately!

And to finish the day in style: The Black Revenge Rammer - entitlement squared:
  1. He does 1:40:8xx vs my 1:41.5xx. Decent driver one should think. He's starting from the back.
  2. Strange incident where I go right then left. Maybe I swerved, maybe it was a slight tap due to lag.
  3. The dutchman flies by, giving me a 1sec penalty
  4. I brake a little late and hit him. He was slowing down because of another car.
  5. He stays on track, and instead of passing me, he waits until I serve my penalty.
  6. He gets another chance as I spin with dirty tires.
  7. He gets a third and forth chance, because I press some wrong buttons
  8. He rage-quits. I take 19th!

After watching this 5 times, I finally got the enlightenment:
You just have to press "option" for menu/autopilot=ghosting when the ram is coming. So easy!
 
Last edited:
637
Australia
Australia
Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. You made contact, got a penalty, you should be more careful and look at how you could’ve avoided an incident.

Minor contact happens even in F1 without punishment, and this is with professionals whose driving can be predicted much more easily than with people on the internet with much higher skill differences and varying connection qualities.

Making contact = penalty is/was overly simplistic and effectively killed off racing in this game.
 
1,375
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Minor contact happens even in F1 without punishment, and this is with professionals whose driving can be predicted much more easily than with people on the internet with much higher skill differences and varying connection qualities.

Making contact = penalty is/was overly simplistic and effectively killed off racing in this game.

False - If f1 cars touch, more often than not cars will get damaged, this is a deterrent in itself that we don’t have. Every on track incident in f1 is scrutinised by a panel of officials who regularity dish out harsh penalties to offending drivers.

In my opinion the harsh system was the best one we had, not perfect, but the best we had. It would be nice if we didn’t have to have a system at all, but people are people.
 
638
United States
Bedford, Indiana
tmsheehan
Why isn't damage used more often? Why is it not severe enough to end a race for someone? I know more often than not this would affect the innocent "ramee" more but then this behavior needs to stop. It really screws up everyone's enjoyment of racing.

Side note: I did start to confront (not talk to but confront) people and learned a real lesson - they don't like to be told that they drive like a-holes - go figure? I have also learned to stay out of lobbies with B & C driver's but this is not a guaranty since A & S driver's will also punt you if it meets their racing needs at that particular moment.
 
386
Czech Republic
North Bohemia
After watching this 5 times, I finally got the enlightenment:
You just have to press "option" for menu/autopilot=ghosting when the ram is coming. So easy!

Let us know how it worked out because I don't think it's going to be that easy. I find the ghosting in this game extremely inconsistent and unpredictable. I'm actually starting to think it might be intentional. So people don't take advantage of it.
 
Last edited:
39
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
JudgeBerry
Let us know how it worked out because I don't think it's going to be that easy. I find the ghosting in this game extremely inconsistent and unpredictable. I'm actually starting to think it might be intentional. So people don't take advantage of it.

It is an interesting idea but taken to its conclusion would make the game tedious. Racing against ghosts is just a time trial. I would rather ghosting was removed completely - yes there would be carnage. Penalties applied for collisions where a car leaves the track - apply the penalties to both cars to stop anyone gaming it. If ghosting was removed for lapped cars then make the SR drop especially bad for the car being lapped.
 
270
Malawi
Malawi
crusselz
Why isn't damage used more often? Why is it not severe enough to end a race for someone? I know more often than not this would affect the innocent "ramee" more but then this behavior needs to stop. It really screws up everyone's enjoyment of racing.

Side note: I did start to confront (not talk to but confront) people and learned a real lesson - they don't like to be told that they drive like a-holes - go figure? I have also learned to stay out of lobbies with B & C driver's but this is not a guaranty since A & S driver's will also punt you if it meets their racing needs at that particular moment.

Got to say I kinda disagree with you. If damage was enabled. Those who would suffer most are those getting rammed, add to that, often rammers work the system, and would quickly learn to simply take innocent people out of races.

Lots of entitled drivers in the game, I've run a few people off track. But no matter how bad it is for my race, have to pull over and wait for them. You then have those drivers, who will turn in on you, as you were side by side going in to a corner, then ram you off on the next corner as if overtaking them isn't allowed.
 
297
United States
United States
Why isn't damage used more often? Why is it not severe enough to end a race for someone? I know more often than not this would affect the innocent "ramee" more but then this behavior needs to stop. It really screws up everyone's enjoyment of racing.

Side note: I did start to confront (not talk to but confront) people and learned a real lesson - they don't like to be told that they drive like a-holes - go figure? I have also learned to stay out of lobbies with B & C driver's but this is not a guaranty since A & S driver's will also punt you if it meets their racing needs at that particular moment.

I myself was very surprised damage isn’t used more in sport when I first started playing.

I was expecting the B or C race to have atleast minimum damage, and full damage on FIA.

I personally feel like there should be damage on, and for many more reasons than just mutual assured destruction. I completely see all the ways how this could make getting rammed/punted worse, but think that if damage was on more it would balance better in the long run, and feel much more like real racing vs bumper car racing.
 
4,767
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
@DoctorNuu In both of those videos the other driver is taking "revenge" on you for what you did, or in case of the first video what they think you did. :banghead:

1st one blames you for a block, (they blocked themselves as much as you blocked them) and then later for getting them a penalty, so of course you must pay, hence the two punts because the first one was rubbish. :rolleyes:

2nd one is clearly not happy at the contact at the hairpin (before penalty zone) that was your fault (albeit accidently) and so again you must obviously pay at all costs, even over and over again for some reason, even though they had already almost caused one incident and played a part in another, just in that small clip. :rolleyes:

These videos do fit this thread very nicely though, they show that yes some people have become the rammer and it's all the other drivers fault. :rolleyes:
 
638
United States
Bedford, Indiana
tmsheehan
I myself was very surprised damage isn’t used more in sport when I first started playing.

I was expecting the B or C race to have atleast minimum damage, and full damage on FIA.

I personally feel like there should be damage on, and for many more reasons than just mutual assured destruction. I completely see all the ways how this could make getting rammed/punted worse, but think that if damage was on more it would balance better in the long run, and feel much more like real racing vs bumper car racing.

I figure everyone would focus on the victim getting the short end of the stick on this But don't they already get the short end? If you get punted out of 4th - 8th place back to 14th - 15th (race lap/track dependent) the odds of getting back up where you were are 50/50 at best by the end of the race (my guestimation of course watching a few replays replays).

I am more detested with the punters and torpedoes than the bump drafting . . . and I really mean "bump" drafting not slam-bam-see you in the shadow realm drafting which there is a bit of.

Overall whether the penalty system improves or driving continues to look like Mario Kart racing I still feel GT is a fun GAME and I am not willing to get too worked up about the penalties (or lack there of) or the punting UNTIL someone decides to make this my livelyhood (yeah like that will ever happen - have you seen me drive? I not only got ran over by but also lapped by a Grandma driving a 1968 Fiat 500F the other day. I don't think anyone would consider sponsoring my slow $$$).

Enjoy.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,588
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I brake a little late and hit him.
That's an understatement. It looks for all the world like you deliberately divebomb him. I actually thought you were showing us a typical hairpin divebomber, then I realised that it was your car.

If you hit the brakes late, go to the outside not the inside. You'll be driving straight at cars that are turning out of your trajectory, not driving into gaps that cars are about to turn into. You also don't look like a divebomber.
 
Last edited:

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
Ive watched a lot of streams over the lockdown period.

I’ve given up watching one individual that streams GTS. His attitude is appalling. He rants like a madman at the slightest contact, and even rants at people who are on a different strategy to him who don’t get out of his way to help his strategy (unless any of this is from someone he thinks is faster than him). But any contact that’s his responsibility is just brushed aside with a quick sorry and a laugh.

I’ve seen a few of those, which is why sometimes my pre race message is ‘time to punt the streamer!’

Minor contact happens even in F1 without punishment, and this is with professionals whose driving can be predicted much more easily than with people on the internet with much higher skill differences and varying connection qualities.

Making contact = penalty is/was overly simplistic and effectively killed off racing in this game.


It’s better to force everyone to drive well and disallow nose sticking punting and diving via strict system than it is to take this beautiful game and reduce it to arcade battle bots.
Shoving past others isn’t fun or challenging. It’s arcade.
If the contact physics were better light contact wouldn’t be ping pong, either.
Imo the best system was the one at release.
Everything since is mixed bag.
Shared fault is the only way to do it on PS4 imo
 
Last edited by a moderator:
195
Germany
Germany
These videos do fit this thread very nicely though, they show that yes some people have become the rammer and it's all the other drivers fault. :rolleyes:

That's an understatement. It looks for all the world like you deliberately divebomb him. I actually thought you were showing us a typical hairpin divebomber, then I realised that it was your car.

If you hit the brakes late, go to the outside not the inside. You'll be driving straight at cars that are turning out of your trajectory, not driving into gaps that cars are about to turn into. You also don't look like a divebomber.

That's the whole point.
>95% of people would not dare to post the second example, because it makes them look bad.
I honestly thought - in the moment - that it would be possible to make the corner, hoping he would get out of there faster.

The point is that people think their revenge is justified.
The other driver is "at fault", an idiot, slow, can't drive, etc.

The other point is that it should be clear that it is a mistake. But it is not because some players sometimes do it on purpose.
 
429
United States
United States
Hey it look like at first glance you should have out drove him.
We've all been there; Rammed in the braking zone, edged off the outside of a bend, nudged, bumped and brake-checked.
"They're ruining the game" we all cry "Those [insert rude word] rammers!" (and the crazy inconsistent penalty system)
But who are they?
Well,
what if it's US!

Yesterday while doing Daily Race C I caught up to a guy around lap 7, followed him for a couple of laps but was getting caught again by the mid-field pack and he was around a second or more off-pace, I made a passing move on the second sweeping right hander down the hill after the chicane-of-death section.

I held a tight inside line on the kerb, but he took his normal line and went for the apex (where I was) and we contacted. Nothing big, just a bump. Both of us were fine and I even stayed track-centre to give him space.
He then immediately turned into me and pushed me off the track!

I watched the replay and apart from confirming it was deliberate (see shot video clip linked below) I watched his race. The reason we caught him up in the first place was because he lost time when he rammed another driver off at the hairpin after the chicane!

His first few laps were a great1:48+ consistent and clean. Then he got hit and took it very personal, which is when he became the rammer and his pace slowed to 1:50+ .
He had a YouTube link on his car so I watched his stream of the race and he was commentating like everyone was a "D***head" etc and how THEY must learn. He must have been quite angry already by the time I made my passing move and counted me in with "THEY" and dished out the justice.
He had many incidents during the second half of the race, possibly due to his state of mind after that first impact. After the race, the guy who hit him originally made a comment to say he wanted to say sorry but since he'd subsequently revenge-rammed him off twice, he just wanted to say he was an idiot.

The "Revenge-rammer" not satisfied with the chaos he had caused in the second half, then proceed to click on all the people in the race-list who he'd had contact with and reported them within GT-Sport. He then went to PSN and reported everyone there too!

I watched an earlier race he had on the stream and he can clearly race close and clean when it suits him, but once the red mist comes down he went into total denial that he was in any way one of the problems in the game and in a chat I had with him on his channel, admitted he felt he was justified. He didn't even save the replay to watch whether any of the contacts were accidental.

Maybe we are all the rammers we hate to meet in the game and we just need the right conditions to flick our switch!


Can't wait to find out what happens next now that I've been reported for overtaking!!!

I would be interested to know others thoughts and experience, on the video and also whether the majority of bad drivers are simply any of us who have overreacted in the heat of the moment and created a monster from an innocent mistake

I know this thread is mostly cathartic for me and for that I thank your indulgence, but I sometimes find it hard to believe what people feel is "deliberate" or "too much" and cannot accept apologies or that they overreacted

Anyhow, It's beer o-clock now so... cheers![/QUOTE
We've all been there; Rammed in the braking zone, edged off the outside of a bend, nudged, bumped and brake-checked.
"They're ruining the game" we all cry "Those [insert rude word] rammers!" (and the crazy inconsistent penalty system)
But who are they?
Well,
what if it's US!

Yesterday while doing Daily Race C I caught up to a guy around lap 7, followed him for a couple of laps but was getting caught again by the mid-field pack and he was around a second or more off-pace, I made a passing move on the second sweeping right hander down the hill after the chicane-of-death section.

I held a tight inside line on the kerb, but he took his normal line and went for the apex (where I was) and we contacted. Nothing big, just a bump. Both of us were fine and I even stayed track-centre to give him space.
He then immediately turned into me and pushed me off the track!

I watched the replay and apart from confirming it was deliberate (see shot video clip linked below) I watched his race. The reason we caught him up in the first place was because he lost time when he rammed another driver off at the hairpin after the chicane!

His first few laps were a great1:48+ consistent and clean. Then he got hit and took it very personal, which is when he became the rammer and his pace slowed to 1:50+ .
He had a YouTube link on his car so I watched his stream of the race and he was commentating like everyone was a "D***head" etc and how THEY must learn. He must have been quite angry already by the time I made my passing move and counted me in with "THEY" and dished out the justice.
He had many incidents during the second half of the race, possibly due to his state of mind after that first impact. After the race, the guy who hit him originally made a comment to say he wanted to say sorry but since he'd subsequently revenge-rammed him off twice, he just wanted to say he was an idiot.

The "Revenge-rammer" not satisfied with the chaos he had caused in the second half, then proceed to click on all the people in the race-list who he'd had contact with and reported them within GT-Sport. He then went to PSN and reported everyone there too!

I watched an earlier race he had on the stream and he can clearly race close and clean when it suits him, but once the red mist comes down he went into total denial that he was in any way one of the problems in the game and in a chat I had with him on his channel, admitted he felt he was justified. He didn't even save the replay to watch whether any of the contacts were accidental.

Maybe we are all the rammers we hate to meet in the game and we just need the right conditions to flick our switch!


Can't wait to find out what happens next now that I've been reported for overtaking!!!

I would be interested to know others thoughts and experience, on the video and also whether the majority of bad drivers are simply any of us who have overreacted in the heat of the moment and created a monster from an innocent mistake

I know this thread is mostly cathartic for me and for that I thank your indulgence, but I sometimes find it hard to believe what people feel is "deliberate" or "too much" and cannot accept apologies or that they overreacted

Anyhow, It's beer o-clock now so... cheers!
We've all been there; Rammed in the braking zone, edged off the outside of a bend, nudged, bumped and brake-checked.
"They're ruining the game" we all cry "Those [insert rude word] rammers!" (and the crazy inconsistent penalty system)
But who are they?
Well,
what if it's US!

Yesterday while doing Daily Race C I caught up to a guy around lap 7, followed him for a couple of laps but was getting caught again by the mid-field pack and he was around a second or more off-pace, I made a passing move on the second sweeping right hander down the hill after the chicane-of-death section.

I held a tight inside line on the kerb, but he took his normal line and went for the apex (where I was) and we contacted. Nothing big, just a bump. Both of us were fine and I even stayed track-centre to give him space.
He then immediately turned into me and pushed me off the track!

I watched the replay and apart from confirming it was deliberate (see shot video clip linked below) I watched his race. The reason we caught him up in the first place was because he lost time when he rammed another driver off at the hairpin after the chicane!

His first few laps were a great1:48+ consistent and clean. Then he got hit and took it very personal, which is when he became the rammer and his pace slowed to 1:50+ .
He had a YouTube link on his car so I watched his stream of the race and he was commentating like everyone was a "D***head" etc and how THEY must learn. He must have been quite angry already by the time I made my passing move and counted me in with "THEY" and dished out the justice.
He had many incidents during the second half of the race, possibly due to his state of mind after that first impact. After the race, the guy who hit him originally made a comment to say he wanted to say sorry but since he'd subsequently revenge-rammed him off twice, he just wanted to say he was an idiot.

The "Revenge-rammer" not satisfied with the chaos he had caused in the second half, then proceed to click on all the people in the race-list who he'd had contact with and reported them within GT-Sport. He then went to PSN and reported everyone there too!

I watched an earlier race he had on the stream and he can clearly race close and clean when it suits him, but once the red mist comes down he went into total denial that he was in any way one of the problems in the game and in a chat I had with him on his channel, admitted he felt he was justified. He didn't even save the replay to watch whether any of the contacts were accidental.

Maybe we are all the rammers we hate to meet in the game and we just need the right conditions to flick our switch!


Can't wait to find out what happens next now that I've been reported for overtaking!!!

I would be interested to know others thoughts and experience, on the video and also whether the majority of bad drivers are simply any of us who have overreacted in the heat of the moment and created a monster from an innocent mistake

I know this thread is mostly cathartic for me and for that I thank your indulgence, but I sometimes find it hard to believe what people feel is "deliberate" or "too much" and cannot accept apologies or that they overreacted

Anyhow, It's beer o-clock now so... cheers!
Hey there are dirty drivers the only satisfaction is fishing in front of Them thats better then a Win. In fifteen minutes another race will start and You will not see them. Let’s hope good driver are in next race. There no better race at the end nobody finish with penalties .
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
Ok let me preface this by saying if there’s ANY doubt, just carry on clean as always, BUT it doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not.
If you dive in and ruin my race and don’t show remorse by waiting up if you are racing against me you can expect to be introduced to my friend Hasselhoff at the beach.
Intentional or not negative reinforcement for the behavior will be applied if the spot isn’t given back.
That’s how I roll.
302110F2-299A-48CF-87A7-EFB6BBD0BFFB.gif
 
195
Germany
Germany
Epileptic seizure almost prevented me from answering this.

The three big challenges of humanity:
  1. Finding a clean race A/B/C
  2. Finding intelligent life in an internet forum
  3. Finding a theory of everything
Might stick with 3 for a while
 
903
Turkey
Turkey
It helps a lot to slow down and wait for the guy you rammed off to immediately show apology for your mistake. That usually cools them down quite a bit. I feel ambivalent about people driving off and then saying sorry in the post-race chat because clearly they didn't have a problem with taking advantage from the incident they caused.
 
297
United States
United States
It helps a lot to slow down and wait for the guy you rammed off to immediately show apology for your mistake. That usually cools them down quite a bit. I feel ambivalent about people driving off and then saying sorry in the post-race chat because clearly they didn't have a problem with taking advantage from the incident they caused.

I started doing this when I first started playing.

Several times it lead to them flyin up behind me to either draft (despite my brake lights) or ram, I don’t really know lol

So I’ve stopped lol
 
903
Turkey
Turkey
I started doing this when I first started playing.

Several times it lead to them flyin up behind me to either draft (despite my brake lights) or ram, I don’t really know lol

So I’ve stopped lol

That's a hollow excuse for driving off after ruining someone else's race. What counts is that you show you're sorry for the incident by giving back the victim at least that one position they lost to you. Whether they accept your apology or not is up to them. Also I'm not quite sure how they would be able to run into you because I always get ghosted out when I slow down to step speed in order to wait for them to pass me.
 
297
United States
United States
That's a hollow excuse for driving off after ruining someone else's race. What counts is that you show you're sorry for the incident by giving back the victim at least that one position they lost to you. Whether they accept your apology or not is up to them. Also I'm not quite sure how they would be able to run into you because I always get ghosted out when I slow down to step speed in order to wait for them to pass me.

Hey! I never said it was well executed and not an excuse! 8)

I dont know... Tried this a lot, and really pretty much every time in turned into me getting rammed, ghost only last for so long, could hit start button I guess..

and actually one of the few that didn’t ram me, was apparently so impressed with my sportsmanship he didn’t want to pass me... leading too us two goof balls hanging out side by side - while everyone passed us lol

But... while I don’t agree with the eye for an eye (That this thread is about), I’ve seen this mentality so much, and pretty much no one has ever waitEd for me, that it is what it is.

So... yea probably an excuse, but... an understandable one? 8)
 
195
Germany
Germany
I have never had a guy (or girl) waiting for me on the track. That's 50.000km in DR B.

What happens occasionally with clean drivers behind is that they tap me and then don't go for the gap as the average Joe would.
It's hard to say anything about their intentions, though. Maybe they just think the gap is there, but too risky.