Hdtv

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Danoff

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So anyone here taken the HDTV plunge? What kind of setup do you have? Any advice for someone checking out LCD HDTVs? good websites to check out?
 
Yes. I've had mine for two years now. It pains me to see the price for my HDTV has dropped almost 50%.

Mine is the Sony Trinitron Wega XBR HDTV. Only a set with an intergrated digital tuner can be called a true HDTV, the rest are refered to as HDTV "Ready."

Stay away from LCDs, they suck for TVs. Plasmas are better, but they can't compete with a great CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) set, like mine. Yep, the bigger, bulkier ones are still the best.

Get the October 2003 issue of Sound & Vision magazine. It has tons of stuff on HDTVs.

What ever you get, make sure it has DVI, or HDMI. That is a digital interface system that is HDCP compliant. That magazine will help you with what those things mean.
 
Yep, my parents bought Sony's 36in KV-36HS510 over the summer. If it weren't for the price of an HDTV tuner, we would have HDTV right now. The picture looks great far away from our satillite dish but up close to the screen you can see the video quality has been upconverted(the receiver isn't HD capable.)
 
Originally posted by Matrixhasu77
Yep, my parents bought Sony's 36in KV-36HS510 over the summer. If it weren't for the price of an HDTV tuner, we would have HDTV right now. The picture looks great far away from our satillite dish but up close to the screen you can see the video quality has been upconverted(the receiver isn't HD capable.)

Tell your parents about High-definition hard drive recorders. They have a built in digital tuner that can either record, or view HD programing.

I have a Zenith model HDR-230 with a 80GB hard drive, which gives me 8 hours of HD recording, and 20 hours of standard-definition digital recording. It has a problems, though. But soon a lot more will be hitting the market. I paid $930.00 for mine, but I see it now for around $750.00 these days.

I plan to buy the Dish Network receiver that has a 250GB hard drive, and will let you record in High-definiton regular, as well as satelite, TV programing. You can use it to view HD program shows as well when the recorder is not in use.

That means I'll have three digital tuners to your zero. Yep, life can be unfair. :D
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters

That means I'll have three digital tuners to your zero. Yep, life can be unfair. :D

Yes, but the retail value of your HDTV wasn't $1,800 was it? That's why we don't have an HD tuner. Even with the $300 or so we got knocked off the price because of where we bought it, it was still very expensive. I'm sure by January the tv model we bought will be so much less expensive too.
 
Originally posted by Matrixhasu77
Yes, but the retail value of your HDTV wasn't $1,800 was it? That's why we don't have an HD tuner. Even with the $300 or so we got knocked off the price because of where we bought it, it was still very expensive. I'm sure by January the tv model we bought will be so much less expensive too.

I don't think the prices will drop for another two or three years. When I bought my HDTV over two years ago, the price droped from $5,500 to $4,000 for the type of set I wanted. The plasma TVs were $8,000, and today they around $6,000. The set I paid for $4,000 over two years ago now cost around $2,500, but I wouldn't have enjoyed all those awesome looking programs, so it was worth it.

The standard-definition tuners will cost around $300, and the High-definition tuners will cost about $200 more. I think your parents should have bought that HD tuner; that sounded like a good deal.

There is a lot of TV shows that now broadcast in HD. CSI, ER, The Tonight Show, JAG and CSI Miami are my current favorite shows that broadcast in HD, and more of my favorites will soon be in HD. Also, CBS and ABC broadcast movies in HD, and they look awesome! Major sporting events are shot in HD, like Monday Night Football, any type of sports playoff game and the like. CBS airs both college and pro football games and basketball games in HD as well. 👍

Don't forget, you also get Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound with HD broadcasts too.

The HD digital tuner for your parents TV sounds like it could make a very nice family Christmas present.

:)
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters
The HD digital tuner for your parents TV sounds like it could make a very nice family Christmas present.

:)

My Dad recently bought a Digital Recorder from panasonic. I have no idea as to whether it has an HD tuner in it though. My guess is that it doesn't. It works really well but we have not hooked it up to all our devices so we can record off of them. Right now it is only hooked up to the TV antenna.
 
Little side note on plasma.

Every so often they need to be recharged, which is very costly. The more you watch TV the more often you have to recharge. If you're going with the little thin TVs make sure to get an LCD, although the cathod ray ones are still better.
 
Originally posted by Matrixhasu77
My Dad recently bought a Digital Recorder from panasonic. I have no idea as to whether it has an HD tuner in it though. My guess is that it doesn't. It works really well but we have not hooked it up to all our devices so we can record off of them. Right now it is only hooked up to the TV antenna.

Do you have a model number? I could tell you if I had a model number. If it's just one of those standard DVRs, then no, it will not have a HDTV digital tuner in it.
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters
Do you have a model number? I could tell you if I had a model number. If it's just one of those standard DVRs, then no, it will not have a HDTV digital tuner in it.

I asked my dad if it had a tuner in it and he said it didn't. If it were me I would have just bought a tuner. We already have a VCR(You can't record HD with a DVR, can you?). The model number is panasonic's EMR-E80H.
 
Originally posted by danoff
So anyone here taken the HDTV plunge? What kind of setup do you have? Any advice for someone checking out LCD HDTVs? good websites to check out?

Just did a couple of days ago.

Setup:
*Samsung 30" Wide CRT
-2 x component inputs
-3 x composite inputs
-1 x DVI input
-1 x coaxial
-supports 480i, 480p, and 1080i (why it doesn't support 720i is beyond me)

*Monster Cable DVI-400 cable

*Dish Networks Dish 811 HDTV receiver (due to be installed this week)

*Samsung DVD player with 480p capability (very nice)

*rest of the entertainment center stuff....
 
Originally posted by Matrixhasu77
I asked my dad if it had a tuner in it and he said it didn't. If it were me I would have just bought a tuner. We already have a VCR(You can't record HD with a DVR, can you?). The model number is panasonic's EMR-E80H.

I think you mean DMR-E80H, and no, it doesn't have a digital tuner which means no high-def. Not a bad unit, it's a DVD recorder, hard drive which is pretty cool. The one draw back about not having a digital tuner for it is when the FCC converts TV broadcasts to all digital, you'll need to buy a second digital tuner for your DMR-E80H.

Yes, DVRs can record in high-definition, but they must have a digital tuner. I have the Zenith HDR-230, which I mentioned earlier. It's only available at www.jandr.com as far as I know.
 
Pako,

It's 720p - progressive. I think most of the CRT's convert to the "equivalent" in interlace format which is 1080i.

I still haven't purchased yet, but I'm starting to look at LCD's pretty hard. CRT's are out of the question for me because they're so clunky. Just don't know which LCD's are high quality... every single consumer electronics store has a bad feed on them, or has different feeds on them, or has a crappy selection.

It's frustrating (but still fun) shopping for these things.
 
Originally posted by danoff
Pako,

It's 720p - progressive. I think most of the CRT's convert to the "equivalent" in interlace format which is 1080i.

I still haven't purchased yet, but I'm starting to look at LCD's pretty hard. CRT's are out of the question for me because they're so clunky. Just don't know which LCD's are high quality... every single consumer electronics store has a bad feed on them, or has different feeds on them, or has a crappy selection.

It's frustrating (but still fun) shopping for these things.

My bad, it DOESN'T support 720P. ;) What ever it is, it still doesn't support it.
 
Originally posted by Pako
My bad, it DOESN'T support 720P. ;) What ever it is, it still doesn't support it.

720p means 720 progressive. That means the lines that make up the TV image is shot across the TV screen 720 times, in a continuous way. Regular, or analog, TV resolution is 480i. The i stands for interlaced, which means there are two fields, or "pages" of information being shot across the TV screen at different times. 480i starts with line 1 at the top left corner, and beams the line across to the top right corner for line one. Line two is NOT on the same "page" so it is skipped, and line three is beamed across the screen. Then, line 5, 7, 9... all the way up, err down, to line 479. Then, the second field of the image is beamed across starting with line 2, then 4, 6, 8.. all the way to 480. Each field has a hz rating of 30hz. They add together to make 60hz. It's the combining of these two fields that make regular TV so damn blury.

480p, 480 progressive, is digital or analog standard-definition TV, but with only one field of information. The image is beamed across the screen continuously at 60hz. That is why progressive is so much sharper and clearer than 480i. The TV doesn't combine anything together at a slower hz speed like 480i. Digital 480p is sharper, brighter and more colorful than analog 480p.

720p, yep, is 720 progressive, which means 720 lines are beamed across, instead of 480. Which makes for a better, sharper image, hence the name high-definition. It is digital, only.

1080i is 1,080 lines being beamed across the screen, but in a interlaced way, sort of. 1080i high-definition beams the image, starting with line one, at the top left corner, and stops at the middle of the screen. Then, beams line two, and every line after that up to 1,080 the same way. It's shooting the lines in a "progressive" style, but can't be called progressive because there are two fields being "interlaced" together. But, this time the second field is the right side of the picture, which of course starts at mid point line one, and beams to the far right of the screen. Doing it this way offers more lines of resolution for a sharper image compared to 720p, but there is no bluriness like with 480i, because it's shot across the screen in a progressive way. But, the left side image of 1080i is 30hz, and the right side is 30hz, and 720p is 60hz. That means 720p can give a more fuller, warmer picture compared with 1080i, and has no "dot crawl" or "flicker" like 108i. 1080i has so many lines of resoultion, and is being beamed at 30hz only, the TV computer can't beam a completely solid image when the action of what is being displayed moves around so fast. When this happens, the image starts to "crap out" with a distorted image. But, no need to worry. Most HDTV sets transfer 720p into 910i, 820i or 540p making for a similar image to 720p that most everyone can't tell the difference.
 
And then there's plasma and LCD which aren't progressive or interlaced and just light up all at the same time.
 
Uh-oh, I don't read HDCP compliant anyplace.

Yea it doesn't have a built-in tuner. I think that might actually be an advantage though.


Edit: Ok, no it looks like it doesn't. I'm reading up on it. What devices require that?


Edit2: Looks like it's just for DVI DVD players and TV receivers. I don't have either of those.
 
I checked with Dell and they say that it's all good. So I'm still in good shape. However, now that I've checked into this HDCP crap, I really don't like it.
 
Three years ago, when I was shopping for my HDTV, the LCDs looked bad when used for TV sets. But, I hear they improved over the years.

I've been looking for about a year now. Most of the LCDs on the market still look bad and are overpriced. The dell was actually the best picture I've seen on an LCD (rivals the CRTS) and was also the cheapest I've seen. That's got me a little jumpy about where the catch is.
 
Check with Intel. They are the ones that made HDCP, and all the licenscing of it. However, I doubt they'll give you a response. Bastards.

What sucks about HDCP is it's a flawed product. Big surprise. It was never supposed to prevent the viewing of HD images. It was to prevent the downloading, and sharing of HD movies on the internet, and other future recordable devices.

DirecTV, Voom and Dish Network all have HD movie and HDTV channels. They don't have HDCP activated yet, but they could turn it on at any time. When they do, no more HD viewing for me, or anyone else with a HDTV set that doesn't have HDCP compliancy.

What really sucks, is the PS3. It will have the Blu-ray drive, which will make it a HD gaming machine that can play, and record HD movies, shows, etc., on a similar disc as the games. I hope Sony wont encode future game titles with HDCP. If they do, I wont buy a PS3 until I get a new HDTV set.

Did I mention that Intel are bastards?
 
Did I mention that Intel are bastards?

Yes you did, and yes they are. I don't know that any of those networks are going to turn on the encoding any time soon. I think they'll lose a lot of customers.
 
danoff:

HDCP is a copy protected DVI interface.

This is of concern if you are planning on using a HD disc player or HD cable tuner (IIRC, OTA is non-HDCP).

The protected HD content could be converted to 480p, when these devices are connected by component (analog) cabling.

This means, protected HD content, could be DVD quality.

The powers that be, won't allow the consumer a digitally perfect copy that can be duplicated more than a predetermined amount.

There will be people who will circumvent these restrictions.
But, if you "play by the rules", HDCP may be very important.

BTW, please tell us your panel's picture quality. Especially, the presence of motion artifacts. Broadcast (480i/p) sports are good places to look.
 
ODP,

Thanks for the info. My set is supposed to be on the up and up with HDCP, so hopefully that's the way it works out. I understand that it's at my apartment right now (I haven't seen it yet).

I'll let you know how the picture looks, but if it's as nice as it was in the store, I'll be spending all evening in front of it.
 
Originally posted by danoff
Solid,

You don't happen to know where I can get an earthquake-proof wallmount do you?

Best Buy, and The Good Guys once advertised one for sale. It's not cheap; about $500.00, I think. They might not have them in stock, but I think they can order you one. If that fails, try Crutchfield or J&R Music. Both have great web sites.
 
The results are in and the conclusion is mixed.

The video feed: Standard Television, The Bourne Identity, Gladiator

The source: DirectTV and the PS2 as a DVD player (my other DVD player wasn’t as good).

The bad :

Trailers: I saw them only once when watching standard def highlights of a baseball game. The ball was sailing past a black background and I could see a little white streak behind it. That’s all I’ve seen of those so far.

Pixilation: Two frames in the Bourne identity (that I saw, I watched about 30 minutes of it) had some pixilation when switching between scenes… one frame in Gladiator. I also noticed very slight digitization in the edges of very small flames in gladiator.

Aspect Ratio: It’s 15:9 (they hid that fact well) so even high def is going to have letter boxes.

White blips: Occasionally there were small flecks of white that would show up, I’d say one every 30 minutes or so. It was as though something small glinted in the sunlight but then there was nothing there. I thought it was my imagination at first but it happened a few times.

Crazy Patterns: When there were super fine grids on the screen (like chain mail) it would sometimes have trouble drawing the lines. I noticed this in a few scenes in gladiator where this occurred. In one case, it couldn’t handle the color and ended up with a rainbowish color across the graphic. In another case the lines would shift in a digital fashion as the screen panned. This happened only in two scenes but it was somewhat distracting.


The good :

The frame: The set itself is gorgeous. The frame is an off white color that (with the lights low) blended in to our wall in such a way as to get you to forget that the TV was even there. It was as though the image was floating. It’s a very attractive design from every angle.

The base: It swivels nicely so that I can watch the TV from the breakfast table or the couch without having to move the TV.

Contrast: Fan-freaking-tastic. I’ve never seen another LCD with this kind of contrast. I was in awe of the scenes in Gladiator where something would glint in the sunlight or faces would be half lit by firelight and the other side would be dark… I didn’t even put the contrast all the way up. Contrast did improve greatly when I went from my old DVD player to the PS2.

Resolution: Fan-freaking-tastic. The clarity of the scenes in Gladiator was phenomenal. I was really loving the pock marks on people’s faces and the fur on the coliseum tigers and pelts that people were wearing.

Color: Fan-freaking-tastic!!! The bluish winter scenes and the rolling roman countryside were brilliant.

Size: Huge in our living room (even in letter box) where the couch is so close to the TV.

Sound: Excellent, but I could always buy speakers so I won’t harp on this too much.

Convenience: Good menu layout, easy to switch between picture modes. Very easy to switch between the various input modes.

Features: Picture in Picture, Picture by Picture and Picture over picture. I’m not sure I’ll ever use any of those but they’re there.

Weight: 37 pounds is a little heavier than it sounds. I don’t see how people mount 70 lb plasmas on the wall.

Price: Still enjoying the fact that it’s over a thousand less than the competition.

Ok that’s the rundown. The image quality rivals the CRTs that I’ve seen, better even if you’re up close because you can’t make out the pixels. Any advice about the problems? Can those be caused by running the DVD off of the playstation? What else should I look for in terms of judging the quality of the picture?
 
danoff:

The motion trails may be a product of the response time, not much you can do about them.

The pixelization may be a unique occurance, unless you've seen it in repetitions of the same scenes and then it could be in the source. No bother, no worry.

It would be nice to feed it a 720p signal and see it display a native (or close to native) resolution using the digital interface.
BTW, I've seen reports that the W3000 is not HDCP compliant.
It's DVI input is for PC connection.

I've also read that the component inputs are "HDTV" and "TV".
The 'TV" input is interlaced, the "HDTV" is progressive.
This sound weird, but whatever, try them both.

15:9 is pretty close. :lol: Even 16:9 sets will display anything that isn't 1.78:1 with black bars (vertically or horizontally).

Speaking of black bars. How is the black level and the detail within the black? In a dark room, displaying a totally black screen, does it look like it isn't powered on?
Do black clothing have detail? Can you see the creases and wrinkles? Can you see the grain in a black leather jacket?

37lbs. is nothing compared to a 220lb. CRT. Try hanging that on a wall. :lol: :lol:

BTW, you'll be pleasantly surprised (understatement) at the quality of a HD feed, especially at your current viewing distance. The color is quite a bit better. Oh and it's far more detailed.

You might want to get an "Avia" or "Digital Video Essentials" DVD to use as a calibration reference. I believe, the "personal" settings are user configurable.

I hope the set gives you years of enjoyment. 👍
 
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