Help Me Plan My Car Life (new car search @post 290)
- Thread starter Danoff
- 420 comments
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Keef
Premium
- 24,547
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
Yeah, why hasn't the RX8 been mentioned yet? Better yet, Mazda is working on a bigger rotary - 1.6 liters. It's supposed to be more powerful and more efficient, but I'm not sure what it's going in yet.
Anyways...
There, I said it. A single-car compromise that you don't like because it's a stick, but is otherwise an excellent compromise. And I have driven these.
Not the quickest thing you've ever driven but the car is involving and fun, which is more important than outright speed. The engine is sporty sounding but quiet and is amazing smooth, with nary a vibration coming through anything at all really. The stalling issues have been resolved this time around so turning it on and off like a normal engine shouldn't be of concern at all. Sweet trans too. The seats are very nicely sculpted and lean a bit towards the sport side of things, but that means you get supported well whether carving corners or on a long highway journey. It's even got rear seats that, while not ideal on long distances, are surprisingly comfortable. I'm nearly 6 feet and I can sit behind myself with little complaint. It's got a trunk. You can literally interrupt your highway cruise to try a windy road you spotted on the GPS and the car is only happy to do both very well. What you're looking at here is the R3, the top sporty model, with the Recaro buckets and body kit and bunch of goodies. Being more sport oriented it passes on some options like heated seats, which you don't need because you live in the desert. It's got bigger 19 inch wheels, but you can save some money and get a lesser model if you don't need the R3 performance goodies. The thing is a looker in my opinion. Prices start at $27,000 and crest $36,000 with a loaded Grand Touring with the manual. An R3 is actually cheaper than that.
Fuel economy leaves something to be asked for, as you'd probably only average 25, maybe a bit more, on the highway and the same as a big V6 in town, 16 EPA. Plus, the engine only makes 232 horses and 160 torques, so it's not the quickest thing in the world. It does rev to 9 grand though which is good fun, especially if you've got an aftermarket exhaust. The ride is stiffer than sport sedans, and stiffer still with the R3, but never harsh, more like taught and controlled. The main thing this car offers over typical sports sedans not necessarily bigger numbers, but definitely more sport and more fun. The R3 will be a hoot on a track day.
You should add it to your single-car list and go take a test drive despite its manual. Come on, it'll be fun.
Anyways...
There, I said it. A single-car compromise that you don't like because it's a stick, but is otherwise an excellent compromise. And I have driven these.
Not the quickest thing you've ever driven but the car is involving and fun, which is more important than outright speed. The engine is sporty sounding but quiet and is amazing smooth, with nary a vibration coming through anything at all really. The stalling issues have been resolved this time around so turning it on and off like a normal engine shouldn't be of concern at all. Sweet trans too. The seats are very nicely sculpted and lean a bit towards the sport side of things, but that means you get supported well whether carving corners or on a long highway journey. It's even got rear seats that, while not ideal on long distances, are surprisingly comfortable. I'm nearly 6 feet and I can sit behind myself with little complaint. It's got a trunk. You can literally interrupt your highway cruise to try a windy road you spotted on the GPS and the car is only happy to do both very well. What you're looking at here is the R3, the top sporty model, with the Recaro buckets and body kit and bunch of goodies. Being more sport oriented it passes on some options like heated seats, which you don't need because you live in the desert. It's got bigger 19 inch wheels, but you can save some money and get a lesser model if you don't need the R3 performance goodies. The thing is a looker in my opinion. Prices start at $27,000 and crest $36,000 with a loaded Grand Touring with the manual. An R3 is actually cheaper than that.
Fuel economy leaves something to be asked for, as you'd probably only average 25, maybe a bit more, on the highway and the same as a big V6 in town, 16 EPA. Plus, the engine only makes 232 horses and 160 torques, so it's not the quickest thing in the world. It does rev to 9 grand though which is good fun, especially if you've got an aftermarket exhaust. The ride is stiffer than sport sedans, and stiffer still with the R3, but never harsh, more like taught and controlled. The main thing this car offers over typical sports sedans not necessarily bigger numbers, but definitely more sport and more fun. The R3 will be a hoot on a track day.
You should add it to your single-car list and go take a test drive despite its manual. Come on, it'll be fun.
- 23,800
- Philippines
If the home environment progresses to the point where four or five years after your NSX purchase, your wife gives in and agrees to another "commuter" sports or semi-sports car (say, a brand new 335i or 335d), the I say: go ahead and get your mid-life crisis over with right away.
The part I keep getting hung up on is decades. Multi-decade keepers are those that are used for a few years, then set aside and pampered when you get something else.
An early NSX is probably at the cusp where it's about to become a classic... but an even older model that has only started to appreciate might be the ticket if you want a fun keeper.
And carbureted engines sound so much better...
The part I keep getting hung up on is decades. Multi-decade keepers are those that are used for a few years, then set aside and pampered when you get something else.
An early NSX is probably at the cusp where it's about to become a classic... but an even older model that has only started to appreciate might be the ticket if you want a fun keeper.
And carbureted engines sound so much better...
- 4,579
- Houston, TX
- astrosdude91
What about a Maserati Coupe/Spyder/GranSport. Those are fun little cars and I do believe they come with paddle shifters. You can find em for under $30k too! And you get to own a Maserati!
- 6,769
- Little Elm, TX
- JCE3000GT
The engine isn't what I would say was the reasoning. The fact that it is so low to the ground it cannot be comfortable to constantly have to climb in and (look awkward) getting out. Not much boot space (obviously) either.
Yeah, why hasn't the RX8 been mentioned yet? Better yet, Mazda is working on a bigger rotary - 1.6 liters. It's supposed to be more powerful and more efficient, but I'm not sure what it's going in yet.
Anyways...
There, I said it. A single-car compromise that you don't like because it's a stick, but is otherwise an excellent compromise. And I have driven these.
Not the quickest thing you've ever driven but the car is involving and fun, which is more important than outright speed. The engine is sporty sounding but quiet and is amazing smooth, with nary a vibration coming through anything at all really. The stalling issues have been resolved this time around so turning it on and off like a normal engine shouldn't be of concern at all. Sweet trans too. The seats are very nicely sculpted and lean a bit towards the sport side of things, but that means you get supported well whether carving corners or on a long highway journey. It's even got rear seats that, while not ideal on long distances, are surprisingly comfortable. I'm nearly 6 feet and I can sit behind myself with little complaint. It's got a trunk. You can literally interrupt your highway cruise to try a windy road you spotted on the GPS and the car is only happy to do both very well. What you're looking at here is the R3, the top sporty model, with the Recaro buckets and body kit and bunch of goodies. Being more sport oriented it passes on some options like heated seats, which you don't need because you live in the desert. It's got bigger 19 inch wheels, but you can save some money and get a lesser model if you don't need the R3 performance goodies. The thing is a looker in my opinion. Prices start at $27,000 and crest $36,000 with a loaded Grand Touring with the manual. An R3 is actually cheaper than that.
Fuel economy leaves something to be asked for, as you'd probably only average 25, maybe a bit more, on the highway and the same as a big V6 in town, 16 EPA. Plus, the engine only makes 232 horses and 160 torques, so it's not the quickest thing in the world. It does rev to 9 grand though which is good fun, especially if you've got an aftermarket exhaust. The ride is stiffer than sport sedans, and stiffer still with the R3, but never harsh, more like taught and controlled. The main thing this car offers over typical sports sedans not necessarily bigger numbers, but definitely more sport and more fun. The R3 will be a hoot on a track day.
You should add it to your single-car list and go take a test drive despite its manual. Come on, it'll be fun.
Eh, the RX-8 is kind of boring to drive everyday. And as you said it isn't really even that fast, and the traction control is just too intrusive. Yes it has 4 doors but good luck even getting an 8yo kid in the back--those pictures do not show where the front seats are when adults drive them. They go much further back. The boot is small and it is noisy on the inside--as in harshly noisy. The ride is pretty damn rough too, yes it's a sports car but Jesus it's rough. Plus the seats are not comfortable for an adult male over 5'11" tall and 200lbs either. After 20 minutes my legs hurt quite annoyingly. It isn't made for long road trips either--at least not if you want a soft grand tourer. My fiancee bought one, yay. I wouldn't. Great car for her, not so much for me. The performance is just too lacking to even be a good compromise. Yes it handles pretty good around corners but it doesn't really impress me. I'd rather buy a Legacy GT, 335i, TL Type-S or Maxima SE 6spd. Those are better compromises. My $0.02.
What about a Maserati Coupe/Spyder/GranSport. Those are fun little cars and I do believe they come with paddle shifters. You can find em for under $30k too! And you get to own a Maserati!
Except finding one that doesn't need some sort of scheduled maintenance done soon after purchase would be difficult. And the flappy paddles on this generation aren't exactly known for being any good. Beautiful car all around yes, but a mechanical nightmare. Just saying.
McLaren
Premium
- 44,464
- Texas
Dan, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of limit are you willing to spend on the Sunday driver since you're going to have a cheaper daily driver? Depending on what you're looking at, an Elise may be well within your range.
The RX-8 will suit your 16 mile "course" beautifully if the road isn't big on speed. Also with this Mazda, how long until you're looking to buy? The RX-8 is going out of production soon & I imagine Mazda dealers may throw a small discount to get any off the lot. This will of course, be months from now, which is why I ask.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
And if the fusion and escape don't share a trans, please, disregard this completely
I believe the Fusion has a Aisin-built six speed automatic, different than what the Escape has. The '09+ Escape uses the unit that was co-developed with GM. Ford's programming is a little bit different than the General's, and if I remember right, their specialized units aren't equipped to take as much power.
I can't recall hearing too many complaints about either gearbox option in the Fusion, actually.
Danoff
Premium
- 33,000
- Mile High City
I'm looking at $30-40k for the sports car, and it doesn't have to be new.
The sports car is probably sometime within the next ~3 years. The daily driver is probably early next year. I want to get my strategy set before I buy the daily driver though, which is why I'm trying to think all the way through this. If I decided on the NSX, and just the right one came along, I could potentially get that first - and even this year. With any of these cars I'm willing to take my time to look for the right one.
- 19,429
- HSV
Cars are terrible investments, to be honest; unless you lock it away for years, drive it a few times a year to stretch its legs, and keep the thing bone stock. the really large x-factor in all that is that a few someones gathered together at an auction actually lusts for the darn thing. (Or if said automaker needs one for testing to stave off a lawsuit.)
Anything that's a very limited run and was desirable and/or beautiful from day one will generally qualify, although that's never a guarantee. Many cars today are very much mass-produced and even something of which 2000 examples are built is still considered over-produced, albeit still rare. If enough of them die or become deranged by the wayside, then chances are it will garner a little attention. Look at the back pages of Automobile Magazine's auction pages for some examples. But after restoration, insurance, upkeep, titling, et cetera...it's hard to recoup your initial investment.
Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago, I wanted an NSX when I first sighted it in a car mag (I bought a second copy and pinned up pics next to my computer), and I'd still like one now as a toy; and that's an example what makes a car a collectible, there's still some demand for it as we've grown up. But you don't know...some might only be interesting within a particular niche. but similarly, original Corvette ZR-1s were so expensive then, that only a second owner could attempt to make a profit many years later. Investment = risk, of course...
The market is such that there's enough used cars for every man woman, child, and parakeet to own a used car of some sort. There's more product than demand, although not necessarily interesting products. Might as well drive something and drive it well; or at least let it put a smile on your face with as small a dent as possible.
Anything that's a very limited run and was desirable and/or beautiful from day one will generally qualify, although that's never a guarantee. Many cars today are very much mass-produced and even something of which 2000 examples are built is still considered over-produced, albeit still rare. If enough of them die or become deranged by the wayside, then chances are it will garner a little attention. Look at the back pages of Automobile Magazine's auction pages for some examples. But after restoration, insurance, upkeep, titling, et cetera...it's hard to recoup your initial investment.
Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago, I wanted an NSX when I first sighted it in a car mag (I bought a second copy and pinned up pics next to my computer), and I'd still like one now as a toy; and that's an example what makes a car a collectible, there's still some demand for it as we've grown up. But you don't know...some might only be interesting within a particular niche. but similarly, original Corvette ZR-1s were so expensive then, that only a second owner could attempt to make a profit many years later. Investment = risk, of course...
The market is such that there's enough used cars for every man woman, child, and parakeet to own a used car of some sort. There's more product than demand, although not necessarily interesting products. Might as well drive something and drive it well; or at least let it put a smile on your face with as small a dent as possible.
- 23,443
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
- 27,163
- United Kingdom
I'd second McLaren on the Elise option, now it's been mentioned. Get something automatic, quick and comfortable for a daily, and get an Elise as a toy. Whether you heel/toe or not it'll be ridiculously good fun.
Actually, thinking of more simple things with normal manual gearboxes, how about an older 911? Now that would be an investment, yet it's something you could drive as frequently as you liked and it'd lap it up. Any 911 pre-early 1980s is starting to appreciate now, and anything from the 80s has hit the point at where it'll stop losing money, so even if you decided you didn't like it after a few years you could get back what you paid for it.
Actually, thinking of more simple things with normal manual gearboxes, how about an older 911? Now that would be an investment, yet it's something you could drive as frequently as you liked and it'd lap it up. Any 911 pre-early 1980s is starting to appreciate now, and anything from the 80s has hit the point at where it'll stop losing money, so even if you decided you didn't like it after a few years you could get back what you paid for it.
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 13,898
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
Corvette for the daily and Cayman for the sports car?
McLaren
Premium
- 44,464
- Texas
Wouldn't be any point in buying the other car, then. Porsche would just sit in the garage collecting dust when it's just as capable as the Corvette for daily driving & being a fun sports car.
- 922
- lpb-gt-r-is-cool or GTP_ParisPeach
What about waiting for the new ft86 coupe which is rumored to be releasing 2013?
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 13,898
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
I don't imagine a C5 Vette would be that costly, but yeah not really a good idea for a commuter.
I noticed that your commuter list vehicles recommend premium fuel.
I noticed that your commuter list vehicles recommend premium fuel.
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 13,898
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
I have been looking at fueleconomy.gov and they have an annual fuel cost which you can personalize. The difference between a TSX and G35 is about $300 using 15000 miles, 45/55 highway/city split, and premium at $2.98. The G35 isn't exactly economical and both of them use premium.
For the premium vs regular assuming 15000 miles and 25mpg, the cost difference is $120.
Smallhorses
Staff Emeritus
- 7,260
Why let perfectionism ruin your driving life? Sure if you're on a track and every lost 1/10th through a missed heel-toe shift was important, then fair enough. However, for my driving on public roads, I've never attempted heel-toe, I'm happy to live with the consequences of additional wear from no doing so and I'll budget for that in the years I'll own my cars, but has it diminished my driving enjoyment any?
🤬 no!
To me the driving is as much about the going as the stopping, the turns as the straights, the whole roof-off, sun-drenched, scenery-rich and non-freeway driving, making the journey not the goal of getting from origin to destination but enjoying every part of getting from one to the other and if it means tacking on 20 miles of extra twisties to avoid 1 mile of dull Freeway, then so be it.
Your job day-to-day is about the pursuit of perfection and the consequences of not fulfilling that.
When you leave work, you should be able to relax, burn an extra cent or 2 of gas 'cos you feel like suddenly doing 0 - 60 in as quick a time as possible, or leaving a little extra rubber on the road without worrying about the cost.
If you buy a sportscar & drive it conservatively because you're worried about losing $100 in gas if you'd bought Car B instead, or if you have to change tyres after 10,000 miles instead of the 15,000 miles that Car C would've done then you've deprived yourself of the joy of owning the car in the first place.
Take your sums, e.g. 30 - 40K purchase price. To me, it's better to spend 30K on a car I can enjoy, and use the surplus 10K to budget for the costs of enjoyment, than to buy a 40K car that I can barely afford to run and won't drive hard for fear of incurring a substancial service or repair bill.
And yes, the Cayman is MR. It's basically the Boxter with a permanent coupe hardtop.
🤬 no!
To me the driving is as much about the going as the stopping, the turns as the straights, the whole roof-off, sun-drenched, scenery-rich and non-freeway driving, making the journey not the goal of getting from origin to destination but enjoying every part of getting from one to the other and if it means tacking on 20 miles of extra twisties to avoid 1 mile of dull Freeway, then so be it.
Your job day-to-day is about the pursuit of perfection and the consequences of not fulfilling that.
When you leave work, you should be able to relax, burn an extra cent or 2 of gas 'cos you feel like suddenly doing 0 - 60 in as quick a time as possible, or leaving a little extra rubber on the road without worrying about the cost.
If you buy a sportscar & drive it conservatively because you're worried about losing $100 in gas if you'd bought Car B instead, or if you have to change tyres after 10,000 miles instead of the 15,000 miles that Car C would've done then you've deprived yourself of the joy of owning the car in the first place.
Take your sums, e.g. 30 - 40K purchase price. To me, it's better to spend 30K on a car I can enjoy, and use the surplus 10K to budget for the costs of enjoyment, than to buy a 40K car that I can barely afford to run and won't drive hard for fear of incurring a substancial service or repair bill.
And yes, the Cayman is MR. It's basically the Boxter with a permanent coupe hardtop.
Last edited:
- 27,163
- United Kingdom
^ I agree.
And it's Boxster
I was actually thinking of your 911 Targa when I mentioned old 911s a page or two back...
And it's Boxster
I was actually thinking of your 911 Targa when I mentioned old 911s a page or two back...
- 84,433
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
The NSX may become a rare car and collectable and valuable but there's no way to tell. Early 1990 models are already 20 years old and are probably bottoming at £10k-£12k in our market, but I couldn't tell you that in 30 years time they will be worth any more or less than that - and they'd need to be about £26k by then to not represent a real-terms loss.
What becomes collectable seems to have almost nothing to do with what is actually any good. Or rare. And the only cars that seem to significantly appreciate are those that were bloody expensive to start with and never really got affordable. Typically these have horse or bull badges. About the only way to guarantee it'll appreciate is to stick it in a fully climate-controlled environment and never, ever, ever let it turn a wheel again - and it's a gamble at the start whether it will appreciate at all.
However, if I was looking at a "European" mid-engined sportscar (the NSX was, effectively, Honda's Ferrari and, while a rare-for-the-time non-copy, is essentially a European-type supercar) to drive, enjoy and possibly as an investment, I'd be looking at a more exclusive car in your price bracket. Esprits are a good bet - very early models are now coming back up again (and they have a 15 year head start on the NSX for that) - but my money would be going onto an MVS Venturi Atlantique 300 BiTurbo. It was a head-to-head fighter with the Esprit of the same age but better built and a better drive. There were less than 1,000 made and not only could you find one in your price range (if you can find one at all), I would bet my house on it appreciating in real terms in 30 years' time. It also has torque and power (like the Esprit).
If you do go NSX, don't go Acura. Any extra spent now on a Honda version should pay off better if you're gambling on long-term appreciation.
What becomes collectable seems to have almost nothing to do with what is actually any good. Or rare. And the only cars that seem to significantly appreciate are those that were bloody expensive to start with and never really got affordable. Typically these have horse or bull badges. About the only way to guarantee it'll appreciate is to stick it in a fully climate-controlled environment and never, ever, ever let it turn a wheel again - and it's a gamble at the start whether it will appreciate at all.
However, if I was looking at a "European" mid-engined sportscar (the NSX was, effectively, Honda's Ferrari and, while a rare-for-the-time non-copy, is essentially a European-type supercar) to drive, enjoy and possibly as an investment, I'd be looking at a more exclusive car in your price bracket. Esprits are a good bet - very early models are now coming back up again (and they have a 15 year head start on the NSX for that) - but my money would be going onto an MVS Venturi Atlantique 300 BiTurbo. It was a head-to-head fighter with the Esprit of the same age but better built and a better drive. There were less than 1,000 made and not only could you find one in your price range (if you can find one at all), I would bet my house on it appreciating in real terms in 30 years' time. It also has torque and power (like the Esprit).
If you do go NSX, don't go Acura. Any extra spent now on a Honda version should pay off better if you're gambling on long-term appreciation.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Thing is, anything less than 25 years old here in the US would be such a massive headache to import that it's simply not worth it. An actual Honda NSX may be worth something here and not terribly difficult to import, but not really worth the hassle.
