Help me throw my crutches away

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Brewsir

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Brewsir
Ok, so, I've been driving for a while. Depending on which car and race, I've been using driver aids to one degree or another. I'd like to stop that altogether, and so, this is what I'd like for someone to suggest. A series of races, that would start me in car A that's easy to drive minus aids, and end in car B that's a real bear to control without aids, with a steady progression of difficulty in between. Suggestions anyone?
 
When I began driving without aids I just did it and got used to it now I only use ABS on 1 and nothing else. You should probably start out in a low hp FWD or 4WD car and drive easier tracks like High Speed Ring or something like it. If drive without them for long enough you won't need them anymore. Practice is key.
 
I suggest using quite a mildy powered FR say a mx-5 at first it will help you learn how it responds to oversteeer and learn to catch the slides. I would turn off all aids and set abs to 1. When you have become used to the power whack the power up a bit. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it you will be powersliding dodge vipers!
 
It just takes time and practice. The thing that motivated me the most was how much those driving aids slow you down. ASM is horrible.
 
I started with a stock RX-7 on soft sports tires and added power every few races. I upgraded to racing tires after 500hp.
 
I'm in the process of learning to drive without driving assists. I've found that going into the tuner's forum and using those builds helps a lot, as you'll be in cars that have been adjusted by the experts to be controllable and fast. I recommend RKM tuning, although many tuners there are great.
 
Lol, start with car like the RX-7 or S2000 on sport hards. Try Deep Forest (or if you want something longer try the Nurburgring Nordschleife. Car B can be the RUF CTR :lol:

If you can master the CTR on Sport Hards, you're ready 👍
 
charliec
Lol, start with car like the RX-7 or S2000 on sport hards. Try Deep Forest (or if you want something longer try the Nurburgring Nordschleife. Car B can be the RUF CTR :lol:

If you can master the CTR on Sport Hards, you're ready 👍
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Not the Shelby Cobra with all upgrades ;)
 
BrewSir, if you want, I can do some online sessions with you and help you learn to drive, controlling the throttle, the brakes, being smooth, etc. etc.
PM me if you want to do some sessions.
 
racer39658
I'm in the process of learning to drive without driving assists. I've found that going into the tuner's forum and using those builds helps a lot, as you'll be in cars that have been adjusted by the experts to be controllable and fast. I recommend RKM tuning, although many tuners there are great.
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Yeah, amazing what proper tuning will do for ya. I just got done with the formula races. Started out without really tuning it, was all over the track, and thought, I'll never get anywhere like this. Found a proper tune, and it was night and day. Really, I think it was more improvement than any aid could have been. Don't get me wrong, I still did it with tcs 3 abs 2. I got first in all races but the last one, Got wiped by another car, and could never recover.
 
Brewsir
Yeah, amazing what proper tuning will do for ya. I just got done with the formula races. Started out without really tuning it, was all over the track, and thought, I'll never get anywhere like this. Found a proper tune, and it was night and day. Really, I think it was more improvement than any aid could have been. Don't get me wrong, I still did it with tcs 3 abs 2. I got first in all races but the last one, Got wiped by another car, and could never recover.
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Depending on what you're learning on, I probably wouldn't learn on tuned cars.

Stock street vehicles (like the 350Z for example) are typically designed to understeer on street tires. You have to create oversteer situations, either through braking into corners, shifting the weight quickly (Scandinavian flick), or overapplying the throttle. If you learn on a tuned car, you may be driving a car setup for soft (or racing) tires and that oversteers more easily.

If you want the "full" experience, I'd start from scratch. Buy a car. Turn off all aids. Keep it stock and go from there. It'll give you more appreciation for individual car characteristics and how to drive them properly. You can tune out just about anything, and honestly, most cars feel pretty similar after you do full weight reductions, custom suspensions, and then stick them on SS/RS tires. Just my 2¢.
 
Ther already have been a few suggestions on good entry cars, but the king´s category could be definitely the Shelby Cobra. Good luck :)
 
What do people think about learning MT and learning to drive without aids, at the same time? If that's not a good idea, which one should be learned first?
 
DGXR
What do people think about learning MT and learning to drive without aids, at the same time? If that's not a good idea, which one should be learned first?
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I think you could do both, it should only take a few laps to get accustomed to manual.
 
Ditch them all except ABS!

Even when you know what you're doing it'll take a few laps to really get used to a different car - you might be a few laps over THAT, but you'll get there.
 
The Nissan GT-R is very easy to drive without any driving aids.
 
TenEightyOne
Ditch them all except ABS!

Even when you know what you're doing it'll take a few laps to really get used to a different car - you might be a few laps over THAT, but you'll get there.
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Is ABS considered an aid/cheat? Or, is a certain amount considered gamey, say, ABS 1 is ok, but anything above 3 is considered "amateurish"? I'm not trying to be critical, just would like to know what I can use and still be "simulator", as opposed to more "arcadish".
 
Something else I'm curious about. When driving with all the aids off, my steering wheel sometimes wants to turn back and forth, sometimes to the point of causing a wreck. Is this realistic. I'm hoping it is, because I don't want to turn forcefeedback off. Then again, I want it to stop. Maybe too hard on the brake or accelerator?
 
Brewsir
Is ABS considered an aid/cheat? Or, is a certain amount considered gamey, say, ABS 1 is ok, but anything above 3 is considered "amateurish"? I'm not trying to be critical, just would like to know what I can use and still be "simulator", as opposed to more "arcadish".
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Technically if you want to be really 'simulator' you should set the ABS according to whether or not the car has it in real life, but I don't think anyone (well, many people) will look down on you for using 1. I don't really think there's any point increasing it beyond 1 to be honest, though, 1 has served me fine (as long as the brake bias is set correctly; usually 8/2 or 7/3 for most cars).

Also I'd recommend learning to drive FF, then AWD, then FR, then MR and finally RR cars and use tyres appropriate for the car you're in, i.e. no racing softs in a Citroen Xsara and no comforts on an Elise just because you really want to test yourself; that just doesn't work. You'll find that if you start at FF then move to AWD you'll be familiar with the understeer, but it's also possible to make AWD's drift, so that experience is useful in FRs. Then when you get to MRs you should know how to modulate the throttle well enough to not spin, and finally when you get to RR's you'll realise that none of what you learnt really applies and they do what they want, not what you want. That's a joke, I don't think I'll ever get the hang of the Yellowbird, but I don't really care enough to try that hard.
 
Brewsir
Is ABS considered an aid/cheat? Or, is a certain amount considered gamey, say, ABS 1 is ok, but anything above 3 is considered "amateurish"? I'm not trying to be critical, just would like to know what I can use and still be "simulator", as opposed to more "arcadish".
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ABs is an "aid" no doubt, but most people use it because it's almost impossible to set the brakes up without it and believe me I've tried. Pretty much every car would lock up with very light brake pressure at 2/1 or even 1/1 without ABS set to 1.
 
To convert to MT, I redid the license tests in MT with all the aids off, including the driving line. Some of the tests where previously I found it difficult to get gold on AT, were quite straight forward with MT.
 
I agree with starting out with a FWD car, and I'd just do the manual transmission at the same time. When I switched to manual, I was used to it after just a few races. As for aids, I use ABS to 1 and sometimes TC to 1 in RWD cars, but never anything else. I also got in a bad habit of putting race tires on everything to make them handle better. I now almost always try to use tires that are appropriate to the car, and I'd recommend you do the same.

Good handling FWD cars that I like are the VW Golf or GTI or the '87 Honda Mugen Civic Motul. A good handling RWD car that I like is the RX7, especially when tuned a little — it's very well balanced. A good handling RWD car that can be a bit of an animal with no aids at all is the Amuse S2000, especially when driven near the limit.
 
If you are using the d-pad controller and not a wheel, I would not be shy about using ABS 1 and TCS 1. I don't know why people get down on those who use aids. I really hate online races where TCS is off. I am using a D-pad, not a wheel. It is NOT a simulator for me at this time, without a wheel. TCS at one is the same thing as ABS at 1, right? The pedals that come with the wheels do not have a realistic brake pedal, so you guys all use ABS 1. Please let us D-pad users have TCS one as well.

As for learning to drive with fewer aids and MT, I did it on a Mazda Miata. Low horsepower, handles pretty well untuned, but not as easy as a 4wd car.
 
Motor City Hami
If you are using the d-pad controller and not a wheel, I would not be shy about using ABS 1 and TCS 1. I don't know why people get down on those who use aids. I really hate online races where TCS is off. I am using a D-pad, not a wheel. It is NOT a simulator for me at this time, without a wheel. TCS at one is the same thing as ABS at 1, right? The pedals that come with the wheels do not have a realistic brake pedal, so you guys all use ABS 1. Please let us D-pad users have TCS one as well.

As for learning to drive with fewer aids and MT, I did it on a Mazda Miata. Low horsepower, handles pretty well untuned, but not as easy as a 4wd car.
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I use a DS3 too and honestly, on most cars, I hate having TCS on. I use RWD almost exclusively and I feel like I have to fight them to rotate when I have TCS on, but with it off it's easier to use the throttle to control the back end.

Once I get up to 600+ hp though I usually start considering TCS depending on tire.
 
e-racer
Good handling FWD cars that I like are the VW Golf or GTI or the '87 Honda Mugen Civic Motul. A good handling RWD car that I like is the RX7, especially when tuned a little — it's very well balanced. A good handling RWD car that can be a bit of an animal with no aids at all is the Amuse S2000, especially when driven near the limit.
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👍

Another great RWD car (if you see it come through) is the M3 CSL. Awesome balance.
 
Counter_Z23
The Nissan GT-R is very easy to drive without any driving aids.
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This is very true, 4WDs are going to be easier but a very nice FR is the TVR Tuscan Speed 6. It's awesome fun without aids and can be Race Modded too
 
Start with slower cars, and work your way up to faster cars.
 
For my own experience... I started using stock (unmodified) cars in practice mode without any driving aids simply because I wanted to experience as close to possible the full simulation effect that GT can offer. I'll probably never get to drive and actual 1970 Chevelle SS, so I took it for a rip with no driving aids and after a few laps, you realise how much fun it actually is to drive without them. From there I started testing out the various muscle cars to compare them to each other. I also started seeing how great of a tool it is to drive around without the driviong aids to do car tuning. The Muscle cars are a lot of fun when you only do mild upgrades on them.. or else the simulation feeling seems to go out the window if you buy all the best upgrades.

So if you like muscle cars, I suggest you do as I did and just do some consequence free practice runs with unmodified ones. You'll start to have a lot of fun once you get a feel for how the cars react to throttle, brake and steering inputs.
 
charliec
👍

Another great RWD car (if you see it come through) is the M3 CSL. Awesome balance.
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OMG yes the M3 CSL is absolutely stunning to drive.. how's the M3 GTR road car compared to that? I've never had the luck to see it in my ucd yet..
 
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