Here's something for you to chew over... Decision made!

  • Thread starter Thread starter GilesGuthrie
  • 110 comments
  • 6,801 views

So, which car for Daddy GeeGee?

  • BMW F10 M5

    Votes: 25 34.7%

  • Audi S8

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • Jaguar XJ L Supersport

    Votes: 11 15.3%

  • Mercedes E63 AMG

    Votes: 10 13.9%

  • Porsche Panamera

    Votes: 8 11.1%

  • Jaguar XFR

    Votes: 8 11.1%

  • Maserati Quattroporte

    Votes: 7 9.7%

  • Audi S6

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Total voters
    72
*ibo* S3 Racer
But I get your and the others sweet spot for Jags, Clarkson is no different
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I'd just like to note that my opinions on Jags are self-formed and in no way anything to do with Clarkson ;)

Worth noting that in the UK Jaguar is the only brand in the last 11 years to topple Lexus from the top of the JD Power survey results.
 
^I meant to say that Brits have a sweet tooth for Jags. And they are good looking cars, I like them too.

Now that homeforsummer mentionned it, what about a big lexus?
 
I actually saw a Lexus LS yesterday. Quite an imposing beastie, in a nice way. But I don't have a passion for it, and I'm not thinking it would be sufficiently entertaining to drive.
 
GilesGuthrie
I actually saw a Lexus LS yesterday. Quite an imposing beastie, in a nice way. But I don't have a passion for it, and I'm not thinking it would be sufficiently entertaining to drive.
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There's no current Lexus both powerful and large enough to meet your criteria, otherwise I'd already have mentioned it. IS-F is quick enough, GS/LS are big enough, but there's no GS-F (yet...) nor LS-F.

I drove the new GS 450h recently though, which was a really nice bit of kit. I'd probably have one over the 3.0 V6 diesel Jag XF, but probably not over an XFR (since economy isn't a concern in this instance).

Around 6 seconds to 60 which isn't bad, but the other stuff you're looking at is around a second quicker. And doing that sort of speed in the XJ has to be experienced to be believed.
 
*ibo* S3 Racer
^I meant to say that Brits have a sweet tooth for Jags. And they are good looking cars, I like them too.

Now that homeforsummer mentionned it, what about a big lexus?
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True that, and Astons, but I would have to say that I agree with them. I am American and my opinions on Jags have come from owning, driving and racing a 1954 XK120, a 1968 XKE and my current 1990 XJS...three of the finest cars I have ever had the pleasure of driving :)
 
Personally the fact that some of them look a bit 'flash' is irrelevant if you are spending £68k on a car. And who cares about stereotypes when you've got a big powerful luxury car, and they haven't. :lol:
 
Out of curiosity, why not an E63 sedan?

Your wife doesn't like the Merc because it's a wagon, and the sedan because it's a BMW, so how 'bout a Mercedes sedan ;)?

Of course, test drives are in check, and I wouldn't make a decision without one. If you schedule a test drive for the wagon, consider booking one for the sedan as well (you won't regret it!) 👍.
 
deba94
Out of curiosity, why not an E63 sedan?

Your wife doesn't like the Merc because it's a wagon, and the sedan because it's a BMW, so how 'bout a Mercedes sedan ;)?

Of course, test drives are in check, and I wouldn't make a decision without one. If you schedule a test drive for the wagon, consider booking one for the sedan as well (you won't regret it!) 👍.
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I think the E63 wagon is a really nice looking car, but somehow the saloon doesn't do it for me. The swish in front of the rear wheelarch resolves itself in the rear of the car in the wagon, but in the saloon it just looks a bit hippy, which then makes the boot area seem a bit weak.

Famine
I would.

Well under budget too :D
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Phaeton? Yes, but if you're going to go that age and money, you'd be crazy not to go with this alternate VW Group product

homeforsummer
:lol: Twelve grand! The Phaeton is on my list with a Citroen C6 and Renault Avantime as "crazy shizzle I really must buy at some point".
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Avantime and C6: proof that the French do good big cars. I don't understand why they don't sell more. Apart from the fact that I don't really want one...

ExigeEvan
Phaeton + Ariel Atom?

Sorry, GG, getting a bit OT.
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Well, this whole topic started off because I wanted a toy car. I was thinking an Atom or a 1M, but the fact is it just wouldn't get enough use to justify the cost.
 
Usually the case is the bigger the car the bigger the depreciation. XJ would be nice but if you say they are only north of 50k these days being less than 2 years old, think about how much you are going to get in 10 years.

I say M5. They keep they're value and for good reason. 👍

Rather jelly of your problem though... :p
 
Wandered along to a local Jaguar dealer. Had a good look over an XJ L SS that they had in the showroom. Beautiful thing, but I think that curvaceous rump may have compromised the luggage space a bit too much. And all the polished wood and chrome inside might be a bit "old boys' club" for me.

Saleswoman offered me the car for "a bit under £70k" if I could register it by the end of the month. That's a thirty grand discount!

Shame I can't register it by the end of the month!
 
Boffin
I say M5. They keep they're value and for good reason. 👍
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Erm... they don't really keep their value. You can pick up an E39 M5 for £5k over here. Or an E60 for £10k. These were all cars worth over £60k new...

Bottom line: Any big barge depreciates like a post-iceberg Titanic. It's the first buyer who takes the biggest hit. Since GG is keeping the thing for ten years, depreciation isn't really a concern since they'll all be worth peanuts anyway after that amount of time.

If GG wants something depreciation-proof he'd be better off buying something already at the bottom of its curve and liable to appreciate in value. In ten years time, an E28 M5 could well be worth more than an F10...

GilesGuthrie
And all the polished wood and chrome inside might be a bit "old boys' club" for me.
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XFR is a bit more youthful in that regard. Or, try and find an XJ with the lovely blue interior of the one I drove:

 
Since GG is keeping the thing for ten years, depreciation isn't really a concern since they'll all be worth peanuts anyway after that amount of time.
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This.

If we go by the poll, Gilles needs to buy an M5. The masses have spoken ! ;)

What about a CLS 63 AMG or a S class?

Though I need to say, Mercs aren't cheap in maintenance (slightly more than Audi's and BMW's, around 8€/ hour more)
 
I'd reckon a 535d M Estate for that little bit of Q-car. Looks great, sounds like it has the driving dynamics of anything that isn't a M5 and lower running costs FTW:

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0-60mph in 5.7 is plenty fast enough :p
 
homeforsummer
If GG wants something depreciation-proof he'd be better off buying something already at the bottom of its curve and liable to appreciate in value. In ten years time, an E28 M5 could well be worth more than an F10...
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Quite so. If they weren't a tenth of his budget I'd be all over this thread screaming "Get an Alpina B10 V8S" (E39 5 series-based). I can tell you right now that you can shove four adults in one alongside a baby seat and the Touring's boot is big enough to put a Mazda MX-3's bonnet inside (okay, we had the seats down - but we have two labradors and the boot gives them room to roam).

The driver gets the Alpina touchtronic auto with wheel-mounted shift buttons and all Alpina B10 interiors are absolutely top spec (I'd be replacing the centre console options with a Dynavin unit though). The 4.4 V8S Touring is the closest thing to an M5 Touring money can buy (since there isn't one) and actually has many M5 parts on it. The Alpina will not lose any money at all, but may be a bit pricier to run than an M5 of the same era. And the E39 is acheingly handsome, even today - it's the only BMW my wife has ever liked and she didn't even do that (because she didn't want to) until I bought one...

And then you've got £60k spare :D
 
I dunno, the sedan's a nicely sized car. Performance should be enough with the turbo.
I don't really care for expensive cars like Jaguars or Porsches, don't get me wrong, I can definitely appreciate a good one, but they seem like wastes of money when you can get a car to meet all your needs and with decent performance and looks for under 40 grand.
 
Vinyl Scratch
I dunno, the sedan's a nicely sized car. Performance should be enough with the turbo.
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There's performance and then there's performance though. Comparing a turbo'd flat four with a NA, turbo'd or supercharged V8 is like comparing apples and guitars.

when you can get a car to meet all your needs and with decent performance and looks for under 40 grand.
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You can indeed, but there's far, far more to cars than just bang for buck. There's more class in the Jag's ashtray than in an entire boatload of Imprezas.
 
Vinyl Scratch
How about a 2012 Subaru Impreza WRX STi?
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Vinyl Scratch
I dunno, the sedan's a nicely sized car. Performance should be enough with the turbo.
I don't really care for expensive cars like Jaguars or Porsches, don't get me wrong, I can definitely appreciate a good one, but they seem like wastes of money when you can get a car to meet all your needs and with decent performance and looks for under 40 grand.
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I had an Impreza turbo in 1998. You may remember above I was thinking of buying a toy car, and an Impreza would have fit that bill. However, I'm knocking on the door of 40, and I have a wife & three children, and I do much of my motoring in/around cities. The amount of balls-out motoring I get to do is probably sub-10%. An Impreza is only viable when being driven as if the back end is on fire. So, not really for me at this time.

homeforsummer
There's performance and then there's performance though. Comparing a turbo'd flat four with a NA, turbo'd or supercharged V8 is like comparing apples and guitars.

You can indeed, but there's far, far more to cars than just bang for buck. There's more class in the Jag's ashtray than in an entire boatload of Imprezas.
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Yes, this is pretty close to bang-on. The car needs to be great to live in, as well as being imperiously quick. The Impreza (from experience) is all about quickness, but there's no joy in that if the wife's constantly screaming and the children are hurling their breakfasts all over the back.

Having spent some time poking around the Jaguar, I'm getting close to establishing my underlying thought processes.

The Jaguar is a beautiful luxury car that is surprisingly quick. The BMW is a rocketship that's surprisingly luxurious. I'm thinking that the latter is more what I'm after. Would I get up early on a Saturday morning for a blast-for-the-hell-of-it in an M5? Hell yeah! Would I do same in an XJ SS? Probably not.

But the XJ's capacity for ripping the p*** out of other motorists does have a certain appeal!

Really need to get some time behind the wheel in both cars, but things are very hectic at home and at work at the minute. Should be able to get drives done and decisions made by about the end of next month.
 
If we're mentioning luxurious rocketships, lets not forget the W212 E-Class with a drag coefficient of just 0.25, while the F10 M5 has a drag coefficient of 0.33...

Just making sure you don't forget that E63, it's a hell of a car performance wise, and is without a doubt luxurious and classy. Give it a test drive as well, you'll thank me later ;).
 
deba94
If we're mentioning luxurious rocketships, lets not forget the W212 E-Class with a drag coefficient of just 0.25, while the F10 M5 has a drag coefficient of 0.33...
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Sorry, but why is this even relevant? He's neither looking for fuel economy, top speed or off-power coasting ability.

And FYI, an F1 car is approaching 1.0.
 
ExigeEvan
Sorry, but why is this even relevant? He's neither looking for fuel economy, top speed or off-power coasting ability.

And FYI, an F1 car is approaching 1.0.
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How is asking why my comment was relevant more relevant than my comment?

A drag coefficient supports more criteria than just the ones you've mentioned. Wind noise for example, which is a serious consideration when buying a luxury vehicle (in my honest opinion).

All I did was play on his word "rocketship" which is a streamlined object, having a very low drag coefficient.

And FYI, GG expressed no intention to purchase an F1 car (unlike his previously expressed intention to purchase an E63) so lets keep it relevant, shall we?
 
deba94
How is asking why my comment was relevant more relevant than my comment?
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Because I studied aerodynamics at degree level and was very, very interested as to why you saw the need to mention Cd.

All I did was play on his word "rocketship" which is a streamlined object, having a very low drag coefficient.
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They don't.
 
deba94
Just making sure you don't forget that E63, it's a hell of a car performance wise, and is without a doubt luxurious and classy. Give it a test drive as well, you'll thank me later ;).
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+1. The current E63 AMG, in most reviews I've read, put it as a more fun to drive and more lively car than the F10 M5 which, to many, doesn't feel like a proper M-car thanks to numb steering, relatively poor body control and, according to C&D "cold, weak" brakes.

Balancing it out is the E63's "overzealous" ESC, price especially when you start chucking on packs and options, and - according to C&D, questionable build quality (apparently a wiper fell off the car at 90mph and the fuel filler latch felt cheap and refused to latch).
 

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