Historic Racing Car trinity

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Yev

Yev

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I was thinking about this so I'd like to hear people's oppinions regarding this.
In GT5 - Historic Racing Car trinity is as we know:
Jaguar XJ13 '66
Ford GT40 Mk IV '67
Ferrari 330-P4 '67

Now, I find their choice a bit strange, here's the catch:
Jaguar XJ13 never raced, it can't be historical.
Ferrari 330-P4 lost, it's remembered in history, but as the defeated one.
Ford GT40 Mk IV is historical.

Now, write your 3 Historic Racing Cars, and write what makes them historical.

But without Porsche - historic Le Mans is a joke.

I'd just add D-Type instead of XJ13.
 
The only real memorable historic race cars in GT5 are the GT40 Mark IV like you said, the GT40 '69 (another Le Mans winner) and the Chaparral 2J Race Car '70 (unique, beat competition by a long shot). The 2D didn't win at 24 hours of Le Mans and the Toyota 7 Race Car '70 never saw the light of day.
 
boredgunner
The only real memorable historic race cars in GT5 are the GT40 Mark IV like you said, the GT40 '69 (another Le Mans winner) and the Chaparral 2J Race Car '70 (unique, beat competition by a long shot). The 2D didn't win at 24 hours of Le Mans and the Toyota 7 Race Car '70 never saw the light of day.
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Yes. But tell me, have you heard of 2J...or let me put it like this, would you have ever heard of 2J if it wasn't for GT?
I know I certainly wouldn't.
You can't make a historic racing car list without Porsches.
And yes, GT40 is the most memorable racing car in history.
Came, won 4 times in a row and retired from Le Mans, pro.
 
The point which PD was trying to make (probably) is:
If the XJ13 actually raced at Le Mans, who would have won?
GT40 and 330 are history just due to the fact that Ford and Ferrari had an agreement (Ford was going to buy Ferrari) which the Ferrari broke, so Ford vs Ferrari was a historic battle from which the GT40 emerged victorious.
Jaguar wanted to hop onto the train but as I've read - the XJ13 has gotten old before it even started racing, and also, Jaguar executives didn't want the world to see their V12 engine (probably were scared of industrial espionage) they have developed, so the project was scrapped and the XJ13 was left to rot in the garage.
Then during filming a commercial for E-Type - the XJ13 was crashed, what a sad end for a potential legendary car (it got restored, and now sits in a garage).
 
Yev
Yes. But tell me, have you heard of 2J...or let me put it like this, would you have ever heard of 2J if it wasn't for GT?
I know I certainly wouldn't.
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You would if you had interest in 60s endurance racing and can-am racing, when the cars were utterly insane.

The P4 probably isnt even remembered as the defeated one, because ferrari didnt alwasy lose in it, they managed a 123 at daytona, the P4 actually coming second. Though the ford and ferrari deal break is the greatest argument in racing history.

Its got to be mostly remembered because of James Glickenhaus and the controversy surrounding his P3/4 and his relationship with ferrari about this and also his commisioned P4/5.
 
The Ferrari SHOULD have been a Ford... but wasn't, so Ford built the GT40s.

The XJ13 SHOULD have raced, but didn't.

I think PD's point is that these cars SHOULD have raced together and yet never did... and that it's a shame because it would been an epic battle.

That's why they're the Trinity... I'm no expert on Christianity but the Trinity were never seen together were they? Maybe a Cat-Am can tell us?
 
Yev
Ferrari 330-P4 lost, it's remembered in history, but as the defeated one.
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Bear in mind that before the GT40 won Le Mans 4 times in a row from 1966-69, Ferrari had won 6 times before from 1960-65.
This particular car, the 330 P4 did win the 24 hours of Daytona in the same year, so calling it "defeated" (because it didn't win at Le Mans) is not true.
 
TenEightyOne
The Ferrari SHOULD have been a Ford... but wasn't, so Ford built the GT40s.

The XJ13 SHOULD have raced, but didn't.

I think PD's point is that these cars SHOULD have raced together and yet never did... and that it's a shame because it would been an epic battle.

That's why they're the Trinity... I'm no expert on Christianity but the Trinity were never seen together were they? Maybe a Cat-Am can tell us?
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Good point, I like it.
 
Have a look at this page.

"This Fateful Battle is in Your Hands.

In Gran Turismo 5, the Ford Mark IV, Ferrari 330 P4, and the Jaguar XJ13 stand together at last on the same stage. You can be the one to recreate the battle that never came to be."
 
KOUKI507
Have a look at this page.

"This Fateful Battle is in Your Hands.

In Gran Turismo 5, the Ford Mark IV, Ferrari 330 P4, and the Jaguar XJ13 stand together at last on the same stage. You can be the one to recreate the battle that never came to be."
Click to expand...

Now it all makes sense! Thanks for that link, a really interesting read.
 
KOUKI507
Have a look at this page.

"This Fateful Battle is in Your Hands.

In Gran Turismo 5, the Ford Mark IV, Ferrari 330 P4, and the Jaguar XJ13 stand together at last on the same stage. You can be the one to recreate the battle that never came to be."
Click to expand...

Great link!
"You determine the outcome of the race that was forbidden by fate."
Gave me goosebumps.

Thanks.
 
What about the Shelby Cobra. Because it was shaped like a brick it couldn't compete well on the high speed tracks of Europe, but it dominated tight tracks in the US in the 60's. Doesn't that make it a historic race car?
 
Racin-Rev
What about the Shelby Cobra. Because it was shaped like a brick it couldn't compete well on the high speed tracks of Europe, but it dominated tight tracks in the US in the 60's. Doesn't that make it a historic race car?
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Er... you might have misunderstood the topic here :D

No-one is saying that this car/that car is or isn't historic, simply discussing the Trinity referred to by PD in the from of the GT40 MkIV, the Ferrari P330 and the Jag XJ13.

PD have chosen those three and finally created the-battle-that-never-was on the basis of their links to Le Mans - there are no other cars under discussion :)
 
Ok, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

I do like the idea of the three car competition. Perhaps you should organize an online competition. 6 drivers, 3 classic courses, 3 races on each course, each driver uses each car on each course. See what the overall results are
 
Jaguar XJ13 is the most beautiful jaguar ever, it bridges the gap between the D-type and the E-type and was very fast. I'd prefer to own one than a D-type any day.

Ferrari 330-P4
"The P 3/4, one of the P4's, and one 412P electrified the racing world when they crossed the finish line together (in first 0846, second 0856, and third place 0844) in the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona, for a photo finish to counter Ford's photo of the Ford GT 40 MK II's crossing the finish line together First, Second, and Third at Le Mans in 1966."

Ford Mk IV is historical (It wasn't a GT40)... yes it was historically great. The only Ford racing car to be designed in a wind tunnel.


Racin-Rev
What about the Shelby Cobra. Because it was shaped like a brick it couldn't compete well on the high speed tracks of Europe, but it dominated tight tracks in the US in the 60's. Doesn't that make it a historic race car?
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? The Shelby/AC Cobra Daytona was built for high speed at Daytona and was the most famous Cobra...
They should have included the Daytona, yes. It's the second best collaboration between American and British companies. The best collaboration being the Ford/Lola GT40.
 
Ferrari 330 P4 that finished 2nd at Daytona in 1967
Ferrari had a clean sweep at Daytona in 1967 finishing 1-2-3. This second place car was driven by Mike Parkes and Ludovico Scarfiotti. The car was equipped with a 4-liter V12.
The three Ferraris finished in a parade type row, for a photo finish. source is sportscardigest.com
 
Racin-Rev
Ok, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

I do like the idea of the three car competition. Perhaps you should organize an online competition. 6 drivers, 3 classic courses, 3 races on each course, each driver uses each car on each course. See what the overall results are
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No, my bad... hadn't noticed that the OP said "nominate your own three favourite historics" (or words to that effect)!
 
64cervii.jpg

I put forward the CERV II on the basis it should be included like the Jag was. It was intended to be a GT40 fighter and had some very trick for the day technology included in it.
Check it out.
 
1970 Porsche 917 because it gave Porsche it's first overall wins at Le Mans in 1970 and 1971.
The later 1973 Porsche 917/30 models had as much as 1,580 bhp in a 816 kg chassis! That makes them the fastest race cars ever, beating Formula 1 cars with their Power-to-weight ratios.
LMK34Fr150_.JPG


1960 Lotus 19 because it gave Lotus it's first win in Formula 1 and Daytona. The first of a long relationship between American V8s and small British lightweight chassis.
LOTUS1903.jpg
 
Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 - In various guises, it was one of the most successful race cars ever.

McLaren M20 - INSANE and successful Can-Am machine. Good to go against the 2J.

Porsche 917 - Absolute Legend. And successful.
 
Mark IV, GT 40 '69 and lets not forget the Plymouth Super Bird. Totally destroyed NASCAR in the cars early days.
 
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alx-ndr
Jaguar XJ13 is the most beautiful jaguar ever, it bridges the gap between the D-type and the E-type and was very fast. I'd prefer to own one than a D-type any day.

Ferrari 330-P4
"The P 3/4, one of the P4's, and one 412P electrified the racing world when they crossed the finish line together (in first 0846, second 0856, and third place 0844) in the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona, for a photo finish to counter Ford's photo of the Ford GT 40 MK II's crossing the finish line together First, Second, and Third at Le Mans in 1966."

Ford Mk IV is historical (It wasn't a GT40)... yes it was historically great. The only Ford racing car to be designed in a wind tunnel.




Care to elaborate? The Shelby/AC Cobra Daytona was built for high speed at Daytona and was the most famous Cobra...
They should have included the Daytona, yes. It's the second best collaboration between American and British companies. The best collaboration being the Ford/Lola GT40.
Click to expand...

Cobra Daytona way styled differently than the original AC/Cobra -- Daytona had a more aerodynamic nose roof line and tail for better downforce. The first Cobra was a beauty of English style -- but a brick aerodynamically.
 

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At Racin-Rev: Yes, online racing league would be great. I'm 100% up for it.
At alx-ndr: Ford Mark IV was GT40, it was Ford GT40 Mark IV. It was called like that because it was 40 inches tall. Mark I and Mark II were the GT40s we all know and love with their amazing bodies made by british Lola, Mark III was ford GT40 road car (which was in GT2) and Mark IV was with Ford-made body.

On topic, I understand the whole trinity now.
"...The battle that never came to be...a dream race, forbidden by fate."
I'm so going to buy them...just need 60000000 Cr. (I won the Jag, but I painted it chrome and put rigidity improvement...).

Also, 917K is epic, one of my all-time favourite race cars. I love it.
 
Yev
Now, write your 3 Historic Racing Cars, and write what makes them historical.
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MK IV. Won every race it entered 1967 season.

McLaren M8B. Won every race it entered 1969 season.

Cobra Daytona. Spanked Ferrari so bad once it arrived on scene they resorted to the FIA cancelling the last race of the 64 season to get the title. Additionally, this set a nice little precedent for Porsche circa 1967.

Yev
And yes, GT40 is the most memorable racing car in history.
Came, won 4 times in a row and retired from Le Mans, pro.
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GT40 first raced LeMans in 1964. It wasn't a serious effort; the car was a huge pile of British crap. The car wasn't competitive until Shelby had completely reworked it for 65. They took Daytona and Sebring but lost at LeMans in 65 to the 275 LM and P2's of Ferrari.

It also raced under privateer teams until 1972 at LeMans.

Yev
But without Porsche - historic Le Mans is a joke.
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Porsche -IS- the joke of historical LeMans...lol. Without precious Porsche the rule change at the end of 67 by the FIA banning engines over 5 liters would never have come about. And they still couldn't beat the GT40 with their 917 and 908 until John Wyer dumped the GT40 at the end of 1969 :sly:
 
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Everything takes time. It took time for Porsche to get prepaired for their winning streaks.
Ford was fueled by rage, which is a boost I must say.
I was playing football (soccer for USA people), I was a goalkeeper. Before big matches my teammates used to piss me off so I was playing in rage mode. And I excelled.
Then I broke both of my hands on a game and I was forced to give up footy...
Just an example of how anger is somewhat good in competing.
 
Yev
Everything takes time. It took time for Porsche to get prepaired for their winning streaks.
Ford was fueled by rage, which is a boost I must say.
I was playing football (soccer for USA people), I was a goalkeeper. Before big matches my teammates used to piss me off so I was playing in rage mode. And I excelled.
Then I broke both of my hands on a game and I was forced to give up footy...
Just an example of how anger is somewhat good in competing.
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Ford used the dark side... figures.
 
Lola T70, ferrari 512s, and the Porsche 917LH
 
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