honda stuff

[Joey D]

yea

y??

she wouldnt even let me get a rear wheel drive, but i talked her into it, and i need a car, so i got the civic

ok, well from mymoms experience, and im going with her advice, and partly she wouldnt even let me get a rear wheel drive, but i talked her into it, and i need a car, so i got the civic because i it was close good shape, and affordable, i was looking originally for a 240sx to work on, but i didnt find any int te condition or price range i wanted, and yeah your right running 14psi is a lot. but i was thinking of an engine swap. and i was talking about one of the older skylines, not like an r34 or anyhting. and yeah, ive seen those awesome mr2s with wide body, i like those. but idk where you live , but you know that wed get more snow then jus three inchs, and yeah, pistons, cranks, cams, lifters, valves, valvew springs, dual over head cam, single over head cam, timing gears, rings, rods, manifolds, carbs, throttle body, injectors, jets, intakes, ETC, i know stuff, but i sadi that i didnt know much about the electronics

I don't expect anyone to have an English degree nor do I really care but you at least need to make half way coherent statements.

and yeah, i might be almost 16, but ive been around a bit too, so dont think im jus some stupid young kid that doesnt know anything. cars and working on stuff has surrounded my whole life, the best thing in the world for me is to work on an engine or something for sooo long and that day comes, when you finally start it fo rthe first time, or take it down the road for the first time, that feeling inside what all worth it at the end to me, no matter what kinda car you have. call us crazy but were going to fix up a monte carlo, with a v6, jus for the heck of it, not for any comp, but a monte carlo, yea its no mr2 or no supra, or anything else super, ts jus for the fun of it, and doing stuff like this creates good memories and experience, my brother wouldnt take bake a thing he did for those 6-8 yrs he built mud running trucks, and yea did he spend loads of money, but in the end, even though our mom bitches about it, its all worht it.

You are 15 and you think you've been around a bit? I'm 20 and I "haven't been around a lot". Until you get your license and actually drive a motor vehicle for a decent amount of time you really don't know (unless of course you did kart racing). And I'll stay with my statement that you probably do not know as much as you think, so don't be so cocky with it. You asked about two VTEC's in a vehicle, and then you act like Mr. Mechanic. Look it's cool not to know stuff and it's cool to ask questions, that's how you learn, but just don't act like you know about cars when you ask questions about doubling up your VTEC amount.

So just chill and ask for help and as long as you are willing to listen there will be people there to help.

 

[Boz Mon]

she wouldnt even let me get a rear wheel drive, but i talked her into it,

Thats why I ask

Edit: Damn Joey beat me to it plus some.

 

[32' Lover]

gotcha, yeah, mymoms all making a big dramma outve stuff that really isnt though., but what ever

ok, and yeah, maybe ive rohde quads and motor off road stuff like that for 7-8 yrs now, i was driving on roads at the age of 12

and VTEC, thats electrical, and i didnt know if you could, that only what i heard froma friend, i jus wanted to know if its true or not, not if you can do it.

 

[Boz Mon]

Its mechanical, or almost hydraulic i guess. VTEC works based on oil pressure. When the revs climb past a certain point, and there is enough air to the engine, and there is enough oil pressure, and the engine is warmed up, a solenoid forces a pin through the rockers that ride on a higher lift cam profile. I hope this works, its my first time trying, if not, go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcT_ZyY3F0k

Ok, I guess it didnt work. Can anyone explain how to get a youtube video in a post? BTW, this video is not a car engine, its a marine engine but the same concept applies

 

[Joey D]

just put the AcT_ZyY3F0k part in

 

[32' Lover]

thank you, so this applies to the honda car engines, so technically it ISNT a computer type thing, ok, now i think i got it. the only way i wouldve understood that would be to see that vid, or take an engine apart, but thatnks, now i understand

 

[Boz Mon]

And just for the record, its not the first, or the only type of variable valve timing and lift.

 

[32' Lover]

but what about when you buy a performance cam, i thought you could get them for them, well the dohc engines atleast. hows that work with the vtec, is the one lobe still bigger??

 

[~Sp33~]

Same as a performance cam for a non vtec car, and you can buy them for SOHC engines also. Also the civic sedan trim list (atleast in the states) is:

DX
LX
EX
SI

from crappiest to least crappiest. That being said though, i dont think the US got an Si sedan in the older models?

 

[32' Lover]

yeah so i have an EX, so it must not be too bad, lol

but idk, ive been looking for hondas for a long time on ebay, and i havnt ever seen any from the states, in b scene mag, or something like that they had that fuzion civic, i think that was an SI

so tell me if i have this straight, the VTEC performance cams are the same as the non VTEC ones?? and can i swap a dohc head with a sohc head? and where the cheapist place to buy performance parts for the engines, i dont want anything wild, but more mild, i wanna run it past 10,000 mi before it blows, lol

 

[~Sp33~]

The cams arent the same no, i was referring to how the cams are. Both vtec and non vtec aftermarket cams usually have larger lobes to push the valves down further. vtec cams are different. You COULD swap a D series sohc head with a ZC (Dohc d series) head, but its not a direct bolt on. Reliability and money would be gone trying to get the thing to work properly.

As for the turbo comment, if you build the engine correctly then you can run a fair amount of boost without having as many reliability issues. When i say building correctly, you have to look into making the combustion chamber stronger, by boring the head and putting in thicker sleaves. Its good to get stronger head studs and what not as well.

 

[32' Lover]

k, so same basic principal for the cams as any performance cam, gotcha

what about a h22a DOHC VTEC engine, with a 5spd?? howd that be in it?? or i think its a B18C engine, i might be able to afford those, idk, is there a direct bolt on for my engine, and that i could do a little work on it too

does honda make a 3.0, 4 cylinder?? because i heard my cousin saying something once, and i thought i heard him say they did and that you could swap out a VTEC head for it and make a 3.0 VTEC , idk if that a dohc VTEC or sohc VTEC

 

[~Sp33~]

I really think you should stop listening to your cousin.

the h22 and the b18c can both be swapped into your car, but theyre pricey and require a fair bit of expertice.

And Honda doesnt make a 3.0 4cylinder that i know of. The largest 4cylinder they make in the Australian market is a 2.4L. Which is a K24.

The 3.0L engines are a J series from memory.

And did you say what year model your civic was?

 

[RICHARDO]

This is just a question of mine relating to the subject: Do DOHC engines with VVT have one cam that operates below the "activation" point of the second cam? Which would be the one designed with VVT in mind?

In other words, does one cam function for city driving, and the other for sports driving, and after a certian RPM limit is hit, the VVT cam takes over?

 

[~Sp33~]

No, both cams operate at all times. One cam controls the intake valves and the other cam controls the exhaust valves.

 

[Boz Mon]

This is just a question of mine relating to the subject: Do DOHC engines with VVT have one cam that operates below the "activation" point of the second cam? Which would be the one designed with VVT in mind?

In other words, does one cam function for city driving, and the other for sports driving, and after a certian RPM limit is hit, the VVT cam takes over?

If I understand what you are asking correctly, then you are correct. For example, my Prelude has an H22a4. When I am not driving spiritedly the low speed cam lobes on the intake and exhaust side are operating, while the high lift lobe is riding on a limp rocker. When I feel the need for more power, the pin from (see above video post) makes the limp rocker stiff. This happens at 5200rpms, you notice a slight kick, and a louder engine note. So maybe after reading your post again, you are incorrect. One LOBE is designated for fuel economy while there is another LOBE (not camshaft) for spirited driving. I hope this helps but I'm thinking no.

 

[Azuremen]

k, so same basic principal for the cams as any performance cam, gotcha

what about a h22a DOHC VTEC engine, with a 5spd?? howd that be in it?? or i think its a B18C engine, i might be able to afford those, idk, is there a direct bolt on for my engine, and that i could do a little work on it too

does honda make a 3.0, 4 cylinder?? because i heard my cousin saying something once, and i thought i heard him say they did and that you could swap out a VTEC head for it and make a 3.0 VTEC , idk if that a dohc VTEC or sohc VTEC

Please start typing properly, it makes it so much easier to understand what it is your are talking about. And its part of the AUP.

Most manufacturers have a VTEC style system, such as Toyota's VVTL-i. Well, most manufactures that rely on DOHC engines. Please do not claim you have been around a while. I'm studying Mechanical Engineering, do some work with the Formula SAE group here, autocross, do engine swaps, and the only thing I feel I know abit about is late and early 90's Toyotas. And thats because most of them use a 4A-GE engine and either a C52 or K50 transmission.

The only VTEC system you will want to bother with will be DOHC, as those tend to have a much higher performance realm. And the most direct fit for you car would be a B16A2 (I think a 2 anyhow), which is somewhat hard to find due to the popularity back a while ago. An H22 or a K20 will require custom engine mounts and a new tranny I believe; your stock one would likely die from the extra torque and power. Your most bang for your buck would be doing a junkyard turbo, honestly.

Though, before you touch that car, I would say autocross the crap out of it. You get a faster car and you'll be more nervous about getting near its limits, and you'll find your self wrapped around a tree sooner. I autocrossed a Tercel for a year, and the experience from the low speed driving was amazing. The low low limits it had let me get comfortable going beyond what the car was designed for. My MR2 on the other hand still scares the crap out of me at times.

And speaking of MR2, I was refering to a first generation, and I do not think there are many widebody kits, if any, for them. You are likely thinking of the second generation Turbo, which would cost roughly 10 grand to pick on up in good shape and quite a bit to insure. And you would kill yourself within a week in one. You can get some details on my car from the link in my signature..

Regarding snow, first time I drove in snow was with over 8 inches. I drive an average of 20,000+ miles a year, and through just about every type of weather you can think of. I have quite a bit of dirt road driving/racing experience and have no issues making anything go sideways on snow, wet, mud, or dirt/gravel.

 

[~Sp33~]

An H22 or a K20 will require custom engine mounts and a new tranny I believe; your stock one would likely die from the extra torque and power. Your most bang for your buck would be doing a junkyard turbo, honestly.

Your transmission wouldnt fit on those engines, so you have to get a new one.. Which isnt a bad thing, k20 means you can get a 6speed. And again i second the turbo comment.

 

[32' Lover]

Please start typing properly, it makes it so much easier to understand what it is your are talking about. And its part of the AUP.

Most manufacturers have a VTEC style system, such as Toyota's VVTL-i. Well, most manufactures that rely on DOHC engines. Please do not claim you have been around a while. I'm studying Mechanical Engineering, do some work with the Formula SAE group here, autocross, do engine swaps, and the only thing I feel I know abit about is late and early 90's Toyotas. And thats because most of them use a 4A-GE engine and either a C52 or K50 transmission.

The only VTEC system you will want to bother with will be DOHC, as those tend to have a much higher performance realm. And the most direct fit for you car would be a B16A2 (I think a 2 anyhow), which is somewhat hard to find due to the popularity back a while ago. An H22 or a K20 will require custom engine mounts and a new tranny I believe; your stock one would likely die from the extra torque and power. Your most bang for your buck would be doing a junkyard turbo, honestly.

Though, before you touch that car, I would say autocross the crap out of it. You get a faster car and you'll be more nervous about getting near its limits, and you'll find your self wrapped around a tree sooner. I autocrossed a Tercel for a year, and the experience from the low speed driving was amazing. The low low limits it had let me get comfortable going beyond what the car was designed for. My MR2 on the other hand still scares the crap out of me at times.

And speaking of MR2, I was refering to a first generation, and I do not think there are many widebody kits, if any, for them. You are likely thinking of the second generation Turbo, which would cost roughly 10 grand to pick on up in good shape and quite a bit to insure. And you would kill yourself within a week in one. You can get some details on my car from the link in my signature..

Regarding snow, first time I drove in snow was with over 8 inches. I drive an average of 20,000+ miles a year, and through just about every type of weather you can think of. I have quite a bit of dirt road driving/racing experience and have no issues making anything go sideways on snow, wet, mud, or dirt/gravel.

ohh, ok, but I wouldnt wanna have something id poop myself if i wreck, but speaking of the turbo MR2, I know someone who had just got one for his first car. Which, I like those body styles, yeah, your right, those are the ones that you can buy wide body, maybe is what I should do is drive this for a while and sell it and buy something cooler after I have a few years of driving experience.

Your transmission wouldnt fit on those engines, so you have to get a new one.. Which isnt a bad thing, k20 means you can get a 6speed. And again i second the turbo comment.

Yeah, I know that transmission would be junk if you did that, that'd be like when my dad and I were working on his Mustang II, and it originally had a 4 cylinder with a 4spd., but we put a 1975 short block 302, with high performance cams, and a different intake, and a 4 barrel, which yeah you could put the 302 bell housing on the 4 cylinder's 4spd. , but no the transmission wouldnt hold up at all.

I woundered how they could get a six speed in one, now i know. Custom mounts arn't a problem though.

 

[RICHARDO]

If I understand what you are asking correctly, then you are correct. For example, my Prelude has an H22a4. When I am not driving spiritedly the low speed cam lobes on the intake and exhaust side are operating, while the high lift lobe is riding on a limp rocker. When I feel the need for more power, the pin from (see above video post) makes the limp rocker stiff. This happens at 5200rpms, you notice a slight kick, and a louder engine note. So maybe after reading your post again, you are incorrect. One LOBE is designated for fuel economy while there is another LOBE (not camshaft) for spirited driving. I hope this helps but I'm thinking no.

Ok, so the camshafts change profile then the V-TEC lobe starts working?

 

[Azuremen]

Ok, so the camshafts change profile then the V-TEC lobe starts working?

Timing is adjusted, if thats what you mean. The "VTEC just kicked in yo" bit has to do with the lobes change over at the VTEC "point." 3 things happen to make sports vtec though, intake changes to allow more air, timing changes, and lift change via the lobe switch.

Normal VTEC though, thats on most everything, is just the first two. Built solely for economy really.

 

[RICHARDO]

That's what I meant, thanks.

 

[~Sp33~]

Yeah, I know that transmission would be junk if you did that, that'd be like when my dad and I were working on his Mustang II, and it originally had a 4 cylinder with a 4spd., but we put a 1975 short block 302, with high performance cams, and a different intake, and a 4 barrel, which yeah you could put the 302 bell housing on the 4 cylinder's 4spd. , but no the transmission wouldnt hold up at all.

I woundered how they could get a six speed in one, now i know. Custom mounts arn't a problem though.

Na, i mean that the K series transmission will physically not bolt up to your D series engine. So you would HAVE to get the K series transmission.

 

[barryl85]

Civics are slow, purpose built, reliable, economy cars...treat it like one.

Honda Civic EK9 Type-r

B16B engine 185hp @ 8300rpm
0-60 = 5.7 secs
Top speed will be 150mph+ when de-limited from 112mph
LSD
Weighs just over a tonne
Suspension tuned for track purposes and has front strut brace and rear axle strengthened.
Biggest brakes that will fit behind 15" wheels


Still think its slow? this car was built for one reason - has been considered an underdog many times and shone through.



Heres proof what can be done to this engine and car.

 

[Joey D]

Read the rest of my post...

Civics are slow, purpose built, reliable, economy cars...treat it like one. If you want a sports car buy a sports car, a used first generation Toyota Supra should be easy enough to come across. Or hell even a Civic Si which is actually designed with a little bit of sportiness in mind.

Civics, just plain old generic Civics, are economy cars. The Si and Type R are designed with sportiness in mind so therefore it wasn't what I was talking about.

But yes 0-60 in 5.7 seconds is slow, a cheaper SRT-4 will his 60 in 5.6 seconds (according to Car and Driver) in it's stock form. I' m not saying it isn't a good track car, but I wouldn't classify it as fast. A Corvette Z06 is fast, a Porsche 911 is fast, a Ferrari 430 is fast, a Honda Civic is not.

 

[barryl85]

Read the rest of my post...



Civics, just plain old generic Civics, are economy cars. The Si and Type R are designed with sportiness in mind so therefore it wasn't what I was talking about.

But yes 0-60 in 5.7 seconds is slow, a cheaper SRT-4 will his 60 in 5.6 seconds (according to Car and Driver) in it's stock form. I' m not saying it isn't a good track car, but I wouldn't classify it as fast. A Corvette Z06 is fast, a Porsche 911 is fast, a Ferrari 430 is fast, a Honda Civic is not.

Ok so when you can afford to buy one take us all for a spin.

The problem is - no one around here likes front wheel drive.

For a small engined front wheel drive car that is fast and with little modification could be much faster - and that srt4 wont be N/A and wont be a 1.6.

And as for shouting economy car - you couldnt be farther from the truth - just because it will return better mpg than a V8

 

[~Sp33~]

i <3 fwd.... i <3 awd even better.

 

[Joey D]

A Civic Type R in the states would cost 2 or 3 times more then an SRT-4 would , a SRT-4 with only 30,000 miles on it can be had for about $15,000. I'm guessing by the time you bought and imported a Type R you would be looking at a much higher price then that. Even building one would be almost as expensive if not more depending on whether you bought new or used parts.

No one likes FWD cars? Seems to me a lot of people own FWD's here. Hell I'll even have one in about a month's time, I actually prefer FWD because of where I live. RWD in the snow isn't much fun....well not fun trying to drive on the road in rush hour traffic...but is fun in a parking lot with no one around.

And if you don't think a Civic is an economy car you really need to look at the Honda website and see how they tout the thing. A Civic isn't a sports car, granted some of the models are sporty. If you want a Honda sports car buy an S2000.

 

[barryl85]

A Civic Type R in the states would cost 2 or 3 times more then an SRT-4 would , a SRT-4 with only 30,000 miles on it can be had for about $15,000. I'm guessing by the time you bought and imported a Type R you would be looking at a much higher price then that. Even building one would be almost as expensive if not more depending on whether you bought new or used parts.

No one likes FWD cars? Seems to me a lot of people own FWD's here. Hell I'll even have one in about a month's time, I actually prefer FWD because of where I live. RWD in the snow isn't much fun....well not fun trying to drive on the road in rush hour traffic...but is fun in a parking lot with no one around.

And if you don't think a Civic is an economy car you really need to look at the Honda website and see how they tout the thing. A Civic isn't a sports car, granted some of the models are sporty. If you want a Honda sports car buy an S2000.

I agree most civics are built to be an economy car call them family cars if you want - throw some money at one and it will be far from an economy car.

I've seen an eg6 with a k20 swap charge past an evo 8! thats a stock k20 - now dont tell me an evo 8 is a lawn mower

 

[Joey D]

You can make anything a fast car, I mean I could throw an LS2 in the Blazer and it would be fast...well kind of fast.

It still doesn't make it a sports car. In my opinion vehicles shouldn't be made into something they aren't, I've done that before and it's foolish. If you want a sporty Civic don't buy the economy version, buy the sportier version to begin with.