Honda VTEC

[JNasty4G63]

.....Any Import tuner will tell you that even with an engine management system, pulling out 20HP is just not possible.

Unless you're talking turbos
Most stock turbo cars are tuned way on the safe side of things. Usually tuned to run very rich in high load situations. Rich will waste fuel, but save the motor. But, with some simple tuning, you can get big hp #s from just tuning. With very few mods on my car, swapping to the AEM EMS, and tuning it for 93 oct netted big gains. And now, in its current state, my car makes upwards of 540hp to the wheels (dyno'd in FWD). It's like a whole new motor, runs better now than it did stock. But, again, that is with a turbo application. Tuning a stock natural motor is a whole different animal. Most gains from tuning are minimal. Beneficial, for sure, but minimal.

Hilg

 

[civicgsir]

Any Import tuner will tell you that even with an engine management system, pulling out 20HP is just not possible. You have to upgrade a lot more in order for a chip to even be benificial. If you adjust fuel maps, it doesn't help you if the car cannot deliver more fuel, or air, for that matter, so again, a chip will not give you that much power. It's myth that it will, but no. I've been working on hondas too long. I know.

Hondata ECU reflash..... 160 to 180 peak WHP / +20WHP with "engine management"

Hondata ECU reflash & CAI...... 180 to 190 WHP / +30WHP over stock with a CAI & "engine management"

 

[JNasty4G63]

The new K-series motors are a rarity in the NA world. Much like the 1.8T VW/Audi motors, they repond very well to simple reflashes and some bolt-ons. But, with just about any other NA engine, you just don't see big gains with JUST tuning.

Hilg

 

[Soman]

To tha_con

About my Prelude. It already has a whole sport exhaust system from Super sprint and muffler from Remus. The air filter is King Dragon double oval insides. And as you said it breathes better About gaining the power look at the diagrams "civicgsir" has shown (thanks man). Greetings

 

[JNasty4G63]

About my Prelude.........About gaining the power look at the diagrams "civicgsir" has shown (thanks man). Greetings

What does a Prelude and a power diagram from a K20 in an Acura RSX have in common??? Nothing. Like I said, the K-series motor is one of very, VERY few NA motors that you will see any sizeable gains in from just a reflash, or "chipping" as you like to call it. Some of the LS1 guys can get some decent power. But, we're talking about getting an extra 15 - 20hp, maybe, from a motor producing 325hp to start with. Thats a whopping 4 - 6% gain. Big deal.

There just isn't that much you can tune on an NA motor that makes big power. With a turbo motor, you can add in more boost, which would require more fuel, and make some big power. There you would see some big gains. Some people with Evo's are seeing close to 40hp from just tuning a stock car. But, thats with a little more boost and getting rid of the stock rich tune the engine has. Tuning most cars doesn't make a whole lot of power so much, as it just helps the engine run a little better in its current state. With bolt-ons on a Honda, you'll have some more flow going through the engine. So, adding a little more fuel might give some gains, but very little really. Its just hard to really tune a lot of power from an NA motor.

Hilg

 

[Izanagi]

What does a Prelude and a power diagram from a K20 in an Acura RSX have in common??? Nothing. Like I said, the K-series motor is one of very, VERY few NA motors that you will see any sizeable gains in from just a reflash, or "chipping" as you like to call it. Some of the LS1 guys can get some decent power. But, we're talking about getting an extra 15 - 20hp, maybe, from a motor producing 325hp to start with. Thats a whopping 4 - 6% gain. Big deal.

There just isn't that much you can tune on an NA motor that makes big power. With a turbo motor, you can add in more boost, which would require more fuel, and make some big power. There you would see some big gains. Some people with Evo's are seeing close to 40hp from just tuning a stock car. But, thats with a little more boost and getting rid of the stock rich tune the engine has. Tuning most cars doesn't make a whole lot of power so much, as it just helps the engine run a little better in its current state. With bolt-ons on a Honda, you'll have some more flow going through the engine. So, adding a little more fuel might give some gains, but very little really. Its just hard to really tune a lot of power from an NA motor.

Hilg

dude you can get up to 370HP out of the EVO's stock turbo if you know what you're doing....that's the wonders of turbo right there....as for NA....ewwwww....it takes a special kind of tuner to bring out the power in one of those...i'm sick of seeing kids riding around town with their civics and preludes...claiming they are tuned and lay down more power than they actually do...personally i've never lost a race to a NA car....only a 480HP EVO...

 

[k20a1emcivic]

....as for NA....ewwwww....it takes a special kind of tuner to bring out the power in one of those...i'm sick of seeing kids riding around town with their civics and preludes...claiming they are tuned and lay down more power than they actually do...personally i've never lost a race to a NA car....only a 480HP EVO...

Hmmm..... Sounds like you've never heard of Hytech Exhaust.....

Read it and weep......

FEAR THE NA MONSTERS

 

[JNasty4G63]

dude you can get up to 370HP out of the EVO's stock turbo if you know what you're doing....

If you read again, you'll see that I was talking about getting 40hp more from a TOTALLY stock Evo. You aren't going to get 370hp from a stock car. A car with some mods and tuning on the stock turbo, sure. But, bone stock???? Not a chance.

Hmmm..... Sounds like you've never heard of Hytech Exhaust.....

Umm, yea, lets see..........

2 Liter k20A2
86 mm Bore
86 mm Stroke
12:1 compression
custom Carrillo Rods
custom Wiseco Pistons
Endyn Cylinder Head
HyTech Roller Cams
HyTech Valve Springs
HyTech Titanium Retainers
HyTech Intake Manifold
Hondada ECU

The Hytech RSX has a fully built, basically race spec engine. Sure, they claim that it makes 260hp to the wheels on 91 pump. But, thats far from just tuning like we're talking about. We're talking about tuning the power from a car, not building a new motor. Sure, its impressive. But, with a fully built engine like that, I would accept nothing less.

Hilg

 

[JNasty4G63]

FEAR THE NA MONSTERS

👎

I only fear one thing from most NA cars. And, thats them running into the back of my car at the end of the 1/4.

Hilg

 

[TheSquidd]

I strongly dislike the ego you turbo heads get. There's something to be said about a NA engine vs. a turbo but I'll be damned if any of you care. Yes turbo can get you high HP numbers, but maybe high HP numbers aren't what some people are looking for. Perhaps some of us are just looking for a well balanced, mid range power producing engine.

Sure, win in the 1/4 mile, but while you're fighting with your turbo lag on the course I'll have efficient power delivery throughout the powerband. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I actually like turbos, just not the attitude some people carry along with having it.

"NA Monsters":

Corvette
Viper
NSX, Integra Type-R
Ferrari 360, 430, 550, enzo
Aston Martin DB9, DB7
BMW M3, M5
Ford GT , GT40
Nissan 350z, G35
Lamborghini Gallardo, Mucielage
Lotus Elise
Mazda RX8
Morgan Aero 8
TVR Speed 6, Speed 12
Ultima GTR

Whats funny is I see a lot of high end super cars going the way of the NA engine.... wonder why.... eh, but what do they know, Ferrari? Who's that? Flame on.

 

[Jay]

I strongly dislike the ego you turbo heads get. There's something to be said about a NA engine vs. a turbo but I'll be damned if any of you care. Yes turbo can get you high HP numbers, but maybe high HP numbers aren't what some people are looking for. Perhaps some of us are just looking for a well balanced, mid range power producing engine.

Sure, win in the 1/4 mile, but while you're fighting with your turbo lag on the course I'll have efficient power delivery throughout the powerband. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I actually like turbos, just not the attitude some people carry along with having it.

"NA Monsters":

Corvette
Viper
NSX, Integra Type-R
Ferrari 360, 430, 550, enzo
Aston Martin DB9, DB7
BMW M3, M5
Ford GT , GT40
Nissan 350z, G35
Lamborghini Gallardo, Mucielage
Lotus Elise
Mazda RX8
Morgan Aero 8
TVR Speed 6, Speed 12
Ultima GTR

Whats funny is I see a lot of high end super cars going the way of the NA engine.... wonder why.... eh, but what do they know, Ferrari? Who's that? Flame on.

Hey not all turbo people are like that, I own both a Turbocharged Skyline and a HG Holden Monaro GTS (chev 350). I Have great repect for N/A tune, I love all the cars you listed.


BTW the is Ford GT supercharged.

 

[Izanagi]

LOL sorry i was a bit vague....lol the thing about the 370 HP out of a stock EVO turbo...i meant with proper upgrades.....god that would be insane if you could get that much out of the turbo without modding! My bad guys...as for Hytech Exhaust...never heard of them....i don't like NA 'cept for those nice ones on TheSquidd's list...however, i would def. like a Koenig twin turbo 360 over the normal one...idk....i got used to turbos with my car and even tho NA cars are a little more balanced out, i still like that pull u get from the turbo and the blowoff sound...i'm not an advocate of large numbers of HP when it comes to turbos either....250-450 HP is what i think is ample on the street...anything over is a risk and i would only get another "street racing" ticket in or maybe i'd be dead before that...anyway enough out of me....yeah just wanted to clear up the EVO issue...don't want people to think i'm crazy or ignorant

 

[JNasty4G63]

I strongly dislike the ego you turbo heads get. There's something to be said about a NA engine vs. a turbo but I'll be damned if any of you care.

Say it with me "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gonnit, people like me." Feel any better???

Sure, win in the 1/4 mile, but while you're fighting with your turbo lag on the course I'll have efficient power delivery throughout the powerband. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I actually like turbos, just not the attitude some people carry along with having it.

I was just stating a preference. I have nothing wrong with NA cars. I used to own an E30 M3 back in the day. It was a great car WITH and NA motor. But these days, I'm more about going fast, than worrying about great efficiency. And, I'll have you know, the turbo on my Talon has nice delivery. Very little lag, if any. Even though I'm making over 500hp, it spools up almost like stock. And, I'll have you know, I auto-x my Talon quite frequently. And its done VERY well on many occasions. Its no straight line, dyno queen.

"NA Monsters":

Corvette Lingenfelter TT
Viper Hennessey TT
NSX Big $$$$ Integra Type-R Boring
Ferrari 360, 430, 550, enzo Big time $$$$
Aston Martin DB9, DB7 Again, big $$$$
BMW M3, M5 Not as expensive, but not cheap
Ford GT Supercharged, GT40 Uh, yea
Nissan 350z, G35 No comment
Lamborghini Gallardo, Mucielage $$$$$
Lotus Elise so rare here, its needs no explaination
Mazda RX8 Mazdaspeed
Morgan Aero 8 Der
TVR Speed 6, Speed 12 Der again
Ultima GTR BORING

Whats funny is I see a lot of high end super cars going the way of the NA engine.... wonder why....

In that list you just posted, I count only 4 cars in the $30k range. The rest of them are well beyond the means of your average enthusiast. Sure, you can have an M5, DB9, or 575M and have a sweet NA machine. But, they are so much $$$, it doesnt even matter. But, if you want to go fast with not much $$$, turbo is pretty hard to beat.

eh, but what do they know, Ferrari? Who's that? Flame on.

Are you talking about THE Ferrari???? You mean, the company that built the F40 back in the late 80's???? What stands out about that car???? Hmmm, let me think??? OH yea.......
TWIN TURBOS!!!!!

Hilg