Honesty Corner: Are You Prejudiced?

  • Thread starter Liquid
  • 140 comments
  • 6,401 views
14,370
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
Imagine the weigth you carry to decide to end your life… It is not out of choosing the easy way, it is because you have no action left. You have given it all. Suicide, is the hardest way out.

I have to say, listening to some of the stories from a friend who works/worked within a prison, I'm not sure this is the case. Suicides are attempted quite often, but often end as nothing more than a self harming attention grab, and usually aren't followed up with a secondary attempt - sometimes it can be as trivial as trying to get moved to a different wing because the guards are softer (for instance) - threatening the guards lives when they confiscate contraband is tough to follow up on, but threatening your own life is much easier.
 
1,582
PletdeKoe
I have to say, listening to some of the stories from a friend who works/worked within a prison, I'm not sure this is the case. Suicides are attempted quite often, but often end as nothing more than a self harming attention grab, and usually aren't followed up with a secondary attempt - sometimes it can be as trivial as trying to get moved to a different wing because the guards are softer (for instance) - threatening the guards lives when they confiscate contraband is tough to follow up on, but threatening your own life is much easier.
Imagine the feeling of being locked up and so out of options that the only way to act is to hurt yourself…. I can only see the desparation in a man there. It is, I think, an act of violence.

But of course you are right that no suicide (attempt) could be exactly the same as the person and the situation the person is in, always differs from an another. Therefore the labels as easy way out, motive, desparation is different in each case.

I just can’t help think about the intensity of ones perception of life to be able the hurt, or end, himself.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
Premium
30,954
United States
Mile High City
I have to say, listening to some of the stories from a friend who works/worked within a prison, I'm not sure this is the case. Suicides are attempted quite often, but often end as nothing more than a self harming attention grab, and usually aren't followed up with a secondary attempt - sometimes it can be as trivial as trying to get moved to a different wing because the guards are softer (for instance) - threatening the guards lives when they confiscate contraband is tough to follow up on, but threatening your own life is much easier.
We work pretty hard to make sure that inmates (especially high risk ones) aren't able to commit suicide in prison. So successfully committing suicide in prison is not super easy. That being said, if inmates aren't serious about committing suicide, and are instead playing other games, seeking attention, trying to get moved, or otherwise trying to improve their quality of life, then that behavior isn't really part of the discussion here.

If an inmate (or anyone) wants to commit suicide, and it's clear that they're not under duress to do so, and are not suffering from a temporary medical condition, then we should let them. If someone is merely seeking attention, and does not actually want to be successful at it, that's a separate issue that can be addressed.
 

Hayden

Chrysler Racer
Premium
3,495
Australia
South Australia
I mentioned earlier in this thread a former coworker who was locked up for a very long time for a very bad crime.

He once told me, point blank, that “I thought about off’ing myself, but I deserve to live with what I have done.”

Which I always saw as accepting responsibility and consequences.

“The easy way out” skirts that. At no point do you actually need to think about what you’ve done, acknowledge it was wrong or even regret it. A life sentence inmate isn’t killing themselves due to shame or regret, they’re doing it because they know they won’t get out and they can’t stand to live with the punishment of their crime.

I can see issues with “allowing” suicide in prisons. First off, are we expecting guards to just get used to finding dead people all the time? Or are we going to use a more organised system, which reeks of coercion?

There is also the (Christian based or not) feeling that it’s not justice because they aren’t having to live with what they’ve done. Them having a choice, when a tortured loved one didn’t, is not fair or just.

I’m not disagreeing with you on a financial front, life sentence inmates cost a fortune, but I don’t think society is really ready for it just yet.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
Premium
30,954
United States
Mile High City
I can see issues with “allowing” suicide in prisons. First off, are we expecting guards to just get used to finding dead people all the time? Or are we going to use a more organised system, which reeks of coercion?
I agree that there are definitely some practical concerns for prison suicide, and yes, I think it would have to be more organized than simply not confiscating the tools that might be used. And yes, coercion is a concern. But I don't think these are reasons to affirmatively deny the right to death.

There is also the (Christian based or not) feeling that it’s not justice because they aren’t having to live with what they’ve done. Them having a choice, when a tortured loved one didn’t, is not fair or just.

I’m not disagreeing with you on a financial front, life sentence inmates cost a fortune, but I don’t think society is really ready for it just yet.
You're describing someone who is essentially rehabilitated, is remorseful, and is potentially ready to re-integrate into society. The guy I mentioned earlier, Chris Watts, I think his chances of being remorseful are low-to-zero, and honestly I do not care, and I don't think anyone should, about whether he's remorseful. The world is better without him in it. If he's willing to do that for us, great.

Not living is the ultimate price. I do agree that living can be worse than death, but torture is not something we do, and I think that's for good reason.
 

Terronium-12

For My Mom, Always
Moderator
27,667
United States
Brooklyn, NY
KR_Viper
I Renown I
Oh, I wish I had seen this earlier! Am I prejudiced? Absolutely not. I love and/or hate everyone equally. :lol:

On a much, much more serious note: I'm grossly ignorant on the entire non-binary thing. I do not understand it. How does one not identify as either male or female? I completely understand the theory behind having an identity crisis which, while not 1:1 (I presume) with this, I see a few vague similarities. Is it a phase before you come to terms with yourself as a person? Is it something one fights with/against for the rest of their days? What's the end goal? And by "end goal" I mean this: at the end of the day, what is it that non-binary people are looking to be recognized for/as?

Every time I hear someone refer to themselves as "non-binary", I roll my eyes in my mind. Don't misunderstand that though, that's not me suggesting or even pretending that this isn't a thing, it's more a case of me not understanding it. Homosexuality? Perfectly understood. Heterosexuality? Perfectly understood. Transgender? Perfectly understood. So on and so forth in that regard, but this? Nothing but question marks.

Disclaimer: When I say "perfectly understood" I don't mean to suggest I'm an authority on the matter, because I'm not. I simply mean it to say that I understand those things; nothing about them alludes me.
 

Hayden

Chrysler Racer
Premium
3,495
Australia
South Australia
I agree that there are definitely some practical concerns for prison suicide, and yes, I think it would have to be more organized than simply not confiscating the tools that might be used. And yes, coercion is a concern. But I don't think these are reasons to affirmatively deny the right to death.


You're describing someone who is essentially rehabilitated, is remorseful, and is potentially ready to re-integrate into society. The guy I mentioned earlier, Chris Watts, I think his chances of being remorseful are low-to-zero, and honestly I do not care, and I don't think anyone should, about whether he's remorseful. The world is better without him in it. If he's willing to do that for us, great.

Not living is the ultimate price. I do agree that living can be worse than death, but torture is not something we do, and I think that's for good reason.
There are people who will never be rehabilitated or remorseful. Some are mentally incapable, others know those feelings but do not feel them for the particular crime. People who kill someone who (in their opinion) deserved it, are an example.

Where exactly do we draw the line on torture? A kid placed in a corner for an hour after smacking their brother isn’t being tortured. They’re being punished with the hope of improving their behaviour and letting them know it was wrong.

Prison is conceptually similar. The environment, while not comfortable, does need to meet various levels of regulations and human right requirements. As someone fortunate enough to have not been imprisoned, I don’t believe being locked up equates to torture.

I can see the viewpoint that being locked up until death, with 30+ years left to go and no hope of getting out is a terrible situation. Mentally that is a form of torture, and allowing them to die would probably be a more moral solution.

The question then comes down to “do they deserve it?” Or should they be forced to live everyday in “torture” until nature gets the better of them?

Victim’s families are also tortured by the repercussions of the guilty’s actions, but they did nothing wrong. They also must live 30+ years without their loved ones, in a potentially horrific mental state, but they didn’t do it to themselves.

I believe the criminal had their chance to make choices and they chose to commit a crime and get locked up. Torture or not, I am not sympathetic to people whose actions have consequences. You do the crime, you do the time.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
Premium
30,954
United States
Mile High City
I believe the criminal had their chance to make choices and they chose to commit a crime and get locked up. Torture or not, I am not sympathetic to people whose actions have consequences. You do the crime, you do the time.
I'm not equating prison with torture (with the possible exception of forms of solitary confinement). I'm saying that people are not imprisoned for the purpose of torturing them - making them suffer for their deeds. We imprison to remedy, rehabilitate, or protect society (I need a 3rd R word there). Letting prisoners commit suicide does not undermine those goals for the judicial system.

I have no problem with there being consequences for actions, and I have no problem if people choose suicide as an alternative.
 
Last edited:
12,873
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
Idk about it being a "Christian" thing. I'm by no means religious. Neither is my dad and at best my mom is agnostic. I've definitely never known the teachings of Christ to inform my opinion here.
I assume your profile is correct that you live in America. That's an entire culture that is founded upon Christian principles. I'm not throwing shade, Australia is too. This is just an observation that you are (as am I) living in a culture where the laws, ethics and culturally acceptable behaviours were established hundreds of years ago by people who did so in line with Christian ideology.

I assume that you're like any other human, you do your best to form a rational and reasonable opinion based on facts and logic wherever possible. But that when it comes to emotional responses founded in trained cultural biases that were being drilled into you before you could even speak, you're as much at the mercy of your own brain as the rest of us. Yeah, you can maybe overcome it if you're aware that there's an issue and make a concerted effort to address it, but you can't spend your whole life questioning yourself over every single thing that just feels correct. A lot of stuff you just accept because you've been taught that it's true.

Like the idea that suicide is a way of avoiding responsibility.

Lets look at another culture for contrast, one that we're probably somewhat familiar with on a Gran Turismo forum - Japan. Seppuku or hara-kiri is a form of suicide that is intended as a method of taking full responsibility for ones crimes or failures.

You say that self-inflicted punishment is having to live and deal with the wrong that you've done. I say that's not an objective fact, that's a cultural bias that you've inherited and never questioned. It's as valid to say that self-inflicted punishment is taking your own life as demonstration of your understanding of the damage that you've caused others.

Do you see what I mean about the "suicide isn't justice" thing being a cultural hangup yet? It's not universal, it's specific to where and when you grew up.
As for the eye for an eye comment. I can't help think that one was not well aimed.
Who do you think it was aimed at? It was not aimed at you. It wasn't aimed at Danoff either. It was aimed at the culture that we are all a part of, one that I think we all agree focuses entirely too much on punitive punishment (aka eye for an eye).

Whatever Jesus may have said, Christian-based cultures still seem super keen on the whole eye for an eye thing.
That's the same culture that produced the idea that suicide isn't justice. These two ideas come from the same source, so it's not surprising that they support each other. If suicide was considered justice, like it is in Japanese culture, then that undermines the idea of punitive punishment.

I agree that reformation and contribution to society is the preferred outcome, that's the best result for society as a whole. But if someone wants to commit suicide over imprisonment then I'm afraid I don't see the problem other than it doesn't conform to societal expectations for what counts as suffering for the purposes of negating anti-social behaviour.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
Premium
30,954
United States
Mile High City
Lets look at another culture for contrast, one that we're probably somewhat familiar with on a Gran Turismo forum - Japan. Seppuku or hara-kiri is a form of suicide that is intended as a method of taking full responsibility for ones crimes or failures.
Quoted just to highlight that I think this is a fantastic example and illustration of your point.
 

Rallywagon

what a long strange trip
Premium
7,689
United States
Michigan
Rallywgn81
I assume your profile is correct that you live in America. That's an entire culture that is founded upon Christian principles. I'm not throwing shade, Australia is too. This is just an observation that you are (as am I) living in a culture where the laws, ethics and culturally acceptable behaviours were established hundreds of years ago by people who did so in line with Christian ideology.
You come from the same culture but somehow you know better than me? 😕


Lets look at another culture for contrast, one that we're probably somewhat familiar with on a Gran Turismo forum - Japan. Seppuku or hara-kiri is a form of suicide that is intended as a method of taking full responsibility for ones crimes or failures.

Who do you think it was aimed at? It was not aimed at you. It wasn't aimed at Danoff either. It was aimed at the culture that we are all a part of, one that I think we all agree focuses entirely too much on punitive punishment (aka eye for an eye).
I can take care both of these in the same response. This is another poorly aimed comment. The bad aim isn't at me, it's at the poor metaphor being expressed. Sebbuku isn't anything like we are talking about. First of, not everyone was allowed to perform Sebbuku. It was for the Samurai. Secondly it was a ritualized exercise that usually ended with them being beheaded after disembowiling themselves. It was an execution in all but name.

At the end of the day, whatever informs my opinion informs it. I'm certainly not laxidasical in thinking things through. If it happens to overlap with whatever religion, so be it. I don't really care. I'm sure I have all sorts of opinions and notions that overlap with all sorts of isms put there. So be it. Doesn't change me opinion.
 
Last edited:
12,873
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
You come from the same culture but somehow you know better than me? 😕
This seems like an awfully fallacious way of addressing anything that I might say. If it's true, then there's no point having any discussion at all because I couldn't possibly know anything you don't know.

I mean, unless you're the foremost expert on something in the world then there's always someone, somewhere who knows better than you. I thought part of the purpose of discussion was to share information, particularly in cases where someone may not be fully informed or simply may not have thought about a subject from a particular angle before. If someone knows more about something than you then that's not some sort of slight towards you, nobody is fully informed and educated about every single topic ever. It's impossible.

Few people think about how deeply rooted their culture is in Christianity because it simply doesn't occur to them, we are living in an age where the influence of religion and the church is becoming visibly weaker and so that's the common perception. Unless you're really into history in ways that most people aren't, the links between religion and the structure of governments and culture isn't easily apparent, let alone the ongoing systemic biases that this creates.
I can take care both of these in the same response. This is another poorly aimed comment. The bad aim isn't at me, it's at the poor metaphor being expressed. Sebbuku isn't anything like we are talking about. First of, not everyone was allowed to perform Sebbuku. It was for the Samurai. Secondly it was a ritualized exercise that usually ended with them being beheaded after disembowiling themselves. It was an execution in all but name.
Please have the respect to spell it correctly, we're talking about people dying. To address your points:

Firstly, you're wrong, anyone could and can perform seppuku. That it was samurai only is at best a partial truth, one that is corrected in the second sentence of the Wikipedia article. "It was originally reserved for samurai in their code of honor but was also practiced by other Japanese people during the Shōwa period (particularly officers near the end of World War II) to restore honor for themselves or for their families." For reference, the Showa period ended in 1989.

Are you familiar with the famous Japanese author Yukio Mishima? He died by committing seppuku in 1970 after invading a military base, capturing the commandant and attempting to inspire a coup d'etat. He was a civilian in modern times, not a samurai.

Secondly, it was heavily ritualised, but it was not necessarily an execution. It was often used as such, particularly with respect to samurai. Their options were seppuku or something much worse, and so therefore not an option at all. However, this was not the only use, again as is detailed in the Wikipedia article under the section headed "As Capital Punishment", which starts "While the voluntary seppuku is the best known form, in practice the most common form of seppuku was obligatory seppuku, used as a form of capital punishment for disgraced samurai, especially for those who committed a serious offense such as rape, robbery, corruption, unprovoked murder or treason."

Clearly, while it's use as an execution method was widespread, it was also used for voluntary suicide. A Western culture parallel might be hanging, a method of death widely associated with the death penalty and executions, but also used by voluntary suicides.

It's not a metaphor, it's a direct comparison of the differing attitudes towards suicide between cultures. But if you can show other reasons why it's a poor comparison then please go ahead, because the ones you've presented are wrong.

At the end of the day, whatever informs my opinion informs it. I'm certainly not laxidasical in thinking things through. If it happens to overlap with whatever religion, so be it. I don't really care. I'm sure I have all sorts of opinions and notions that overlap with all sorts of isms put there. So be it. Doesn't change me opinion.
This sounds like the start of "it's just my opinion so it can't be wrong". I think we've shown above that sometimes you certainly are lackadaisical (Oxford: lacking enthusiasm and determination; carelessly lazy) in thinking things through, you didn't read the Wiki article that I linked to see how your established beliefs about seppuku were incorrect or even bother to make sure you spelled it correctly.

If you want to educate yourself and have a robust discussion about the actual merits of any given position on suicide as it relates to justice then that would be great. If you just want to hold your position that suicide isn't justice then so be it, but don't try and make out that it's a logical and rational position if you can't even make the basic effort to address points raised against it. You have a belief, and while you may have spent a lot of time thinking about it that doesn't mean that it's logical or rational.
 
3,172
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
I think I am prejudiced in some subtle ways - at least a little bit - but I'm usually trying to get better about it. Sometimes I think I have so little experience with some people that I end up internalizing trash I read about them on the internet. So for example, I'm almost 30 and I've never had a gf, so sometimes I feel like I have to try harder than most people not to internalize vaguely (if not entirely) sexist pseudoscience like the 80/20 rule, or "appeal to nature" fallacies. The latter can feel especially hard because my bachelor's was in biology with a minor in ecology and evolutionary biology (EEB), so sometimes it feels like all someone has to do is tie something into EEB and have it make sense, and I'll fall for it.

EDIT: It doesn't help that I tried using multiple dating apps for over a year - sometimes even paying for premium trims like Tinder Gold or OKCupid A-List - and I never got a single date. I was lucky if I even got liked, and I'm not fat/ugly, either. Whenever I complained about this stuff on Reddit (which I don't use anymore), the users tried to gaslight me and say it had something to do with me. For example, that it was my "bitter attitude" as if I'm not allowed to feel exasperated after a year of no results.

EDIT2: I also freely admit that I'm trying to shed the view that I have, where when it comes to attracting women, looks may not be everything, but they do get you in the door. You can't see "personality," adages about judging books by their cover be damned. And that Elliot Roger was a monster while simultaneously being a victim of a society that ultimately failed him. I know the latter part of that one is especially bad, and I'm trying to rid my mind of it, but sometimes I wonder if Roger would've turned out differently if something as simple as federally legalized prostitution was around. I admit I tried looking for an escort once after feeling like I should just give up on trying to get a gf, and it turned out to be a scam that cost me over $4k. I've never found a legit escort in my experience, so it really bothers me when people half-jokingly suggest that lonely men should get one. It's hard at best, if not impossible if you don't live in the very few areas of the U.S. where it's actually legal. I think my younger brother and I are going to die virgins.

EDTI3: Another thing I'll admit is that I think something bad happened to the way women behave in the last couple decades. The percentage of sexless men under 30 has multiplied several times over since the late 00s. Why? I blame women.
 
Last edited:

Hayden

Chrysler Racer
Premium
3,495
Australia
South Australia
I met a guy at a party once with a pretty similar outlook to that. I’m not saying you’re the same, I don’t know you, but after a couple beers this guy reeked of desperation. He blamed women for not being interested in him, while trying desperately to fit in with a group of guys he just didn’t fit with. He wasn’t comfortable with himself, he stank of it, and women have brilliant noses when it comes to BS.

In your case, and again I don’t know you, I feel like you’ve built this all up to be a huge thing which puts yourself under immense pressure. With every swipe you’re not only hoping to get to chat with somebody, you’re already hoping to one day lay with them or marry them.

To be straight up, if you’re in the US, and the virginity thing is a seriously heavy burden, there are places with legal prostitution. I watched a documentary on the Bunny Ranch in Nevada, where they actually specialise in helping men who have no experience to become confident around women and in the bed room.

From reading your post this is clearly something you have a big problem with. If I were you I’d be saving some checks, taking some time off and just getting the monkey off of your back. You’ll find that once the pressure is gone, meeting, talking to and being around women is 100% easier.

I will quickly irriterate that despite some modern males opinion, women are not the problem here. This isn’t “us” vs “them”. People have the right to like and be attracted to whoever they want.

Personally, I never met the one (or anyone for that matter) until I took 6 months working on myself and learning to actually care for myself and the world. We’ve now been together 7 years, have a daughter, a mortgage and I’m happier than I ever was alone. The right person is out there for everyone.

Looking from a blaming perspective is completely toxic, and it will not help you find them.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
Premium
30,954
United States
Mile High City
I've never found a legit escort in my experience, so it really bothers me when people half-jokingly suggest that lonely men should get one. It's hard at best, if not impossible if you don't live in the very few areas of the U.S. where it's actually legal.
I have a close friend who flew to Nevada to visit the bunny ranch. I think he had a really good time.
 
3,172
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
I met a guy at a party once with a pretty similar outlook to that. I’m not saying you’re the same, I don’t know you, but after a couple beers this guy reeked of desperation. He blamed women for not being interested in him, while trying desperately to fit in with a group of guys he just didn’t fit with. He wasn’t comfortable with himself, he stank of it, and women have brilliant noses when it comes to BS.

In your case, and again I don’t know you, I feel like you’ve built this all up to be a huge thing which puts yourself under immense pressure. With every swipe you’re not only hoping to get to chat with somebody, you’re already hoping to one day lay with them or marry them.

To be straight up, if you’re in the US, and the virginity thing is a seriously heavy burden, there are places with legal prostitution. I watched a documentary on the Bunny Ranch in Nevada, where they actually specialise in helping men who have no experience to become confident around women and in the bed room.

From reading your post this is clearly something you have a big problem with. If I were you I’d be saving some checks, taking some time off and just getting the monkey off of your back. You’ll find that once the pressure is gone, meeting, talking to and being around women is 100% easier.

I will quickly irriterate that despite some modern males opinion, women are not the problem here. This isn’t “us” vs “them”. People have the right to like and be attracted to whoever they want.

Personally, I never met the one (or anyone for that matter) until I took 6 months working on myself and learning to actually care for myself and the world. We’ve now been together 7 years, have a daughter, a mortgage and I’m happier than I ever was alone. The right person is out there for everyone.

Looking from a blaming perspective is completely toxic, and it will not help you find them.
I'm more scared of loneliness than anything, tbh. I feel like it's hard to even find attractive single women my age, so it's not like I've been rejected much. It's frustrating when I see (or hear about) other men with all these tons of matches on dating sites while I get nothing. Where am I going wrong? Why does it all have to be a glorified game of "smash or pass," hidden under this facade of finding "true love" or even just making new friends? Sometimes, women confuse me, and I admit that I have antipathy towards what I don't understand.

EDIT: I think I'll try to indulge in my hobbies a bit more. That should take my mind off this sort of stuff.
 
Last edited:

Hayden

Chrysler Racer
Premium
3,495
Australia
South Australia
I'm more scared of loneliness than anything, tbh. I feel like it's hard to even find attractive single women my age, so it's not like I've been rejected much. It's frustrating when I see (or hear about) other men with all these tons of matches on dating sites while I get nothing. Where am I going wrong? Why does it all have to be a glorified game of "smash or pass," hidden under this facade of finding "true love" or even just making new friends? Sometimes, women confuse me, and I admit that I have antipathy towards what I don't understand.

EDIT: I think I'll try to indulge in my hobbies a bit more. That should take my mind off this sort of stuff.
Focusing inwards and making yourself happy is a very good place to start. You mention hobbies, what are you into? Is there local communities you can get involved with to meet other people who are into it?
 
3,172
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
Focusing inwards and making yourself happy is a very good place to start. You mention hobbies, what are you into? Is there local communities you can get involved with to meet other people who are into it?
I’m attending MeetUp events, for what that’s worth. But now that I’m almost 30, I want a way to speed things along. I don’t want to be that loser who’s over 30 and has never had a gf. I don’t even want kids, as I just want to be a DINK, but I just want to do “normal person” things.
It’s not even like anyone I know is pressuring me, friends or family, but I feel uncomfortable about it.
 
Last edited:
14,370
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
I don’t even want kids, as I just want to be a DINK

I've got a lot of thoughts about a lot of what you've said, but I've little useful advice... I would suggest though, you might need to rethink this. I don't know what the US is like in terms of 'single (female) parents', but nearly all of the single women I know have kids - if I was actively looking to date, and disregarded mothers, I'd be severely limiting my choices, the same could be true there - average age of first child birth is younger than you - you might just have to accept it.
 

Hayden

Chrysler Racer
Premium
3,495
Australia
South Australia
I’m attending MeetUp events, for what that’s worth. But now that I’m almost 30, I want a way to speed things along. I don’t want to be that loser who’s over 30 and has never had a gf. I don’t even want kids, as I just want to be a DINK, but I just want to do “normal person” things.
It’s not even like anyone I know is pressuring me, friends or family, but I feel uncomfortable about it.
Are MeetUp events hobby centric or is it more of a thing designed to help people to meet people?

I was thinking more along the lines of if you’re into cars, volunteer at a local race track. If you’re into gaming, find a local board game community. There’s also things like LARP for fantasy minded people, sport for fit people, cooking class for foodies and old fashioned volunteering for those who really want to make a difference.

I’m not suggesting you’ll meet a partner straight away (or ever) doing these types of things. That’s not really what it’s about. What you will do is become part of a community, meet people of both genders and get opportunities to create friendships. I’m a big believer in having a reason to leave the house, and a group where you feel at home. It does great things for mental health. I’m also a believer that the best relationships start on common interests and friendships.

On the Dual Income No Kid (had to google that :lol:) each to their own, but I agree with MatskiMonk. In fact I’ll go one further. You are hitting prime time for women who have already had a very serious relationship go down hill and are now looking for a genuinely nice person to spend the rest of their life with. A lot of them will have kids, some will also have great careers & homes. And following a nasty breakup many will be looking to go for a different type of guy than they normally would.

I think if you’re trying to find a 30 year old woman who doesn’t have kids and doesn’t want them, you’re fishing in a nearly empty puddle with your back to a salmon farm.
 
3,172
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
I don't know what the US is like in terms of 'single (female) parents', but nearly all of the single women I know have kids - if I was actively looking to date, and disregarded mothers, I'd be severely limiting my choices, the same could be true there - average age of first child birth is younger than you - you might just have to accept it.
On the Dual Income No Kid (had to google that :lol:) each to their own, but I agree with MatskiMonk. In fact I’ll go one further. You are hitting prime time for women who have already had a very serious relationship go down hill and are now looking for a genuinely nice person to spend the rest of their life with. A lot of them will have kids, some will also have great careers & homes. And following a nasty breakup many will be looking to go for a different type of guy than they normally would.

I think if you’re trying to find a 30 year old woman who doesn’t have kids and doesn’t want them, you’re fishing in a nearly empty puddle with your back to a salmon farm.
Got it, I’ll start dating high school girls, then. Or at least I may as well. They always seemed so pure and untainted by modern degeneracy, like septum piercings, “ethical non-monogamy,” or whatever. I don’t even really know what I’m saying, here. I just want attention from a hot single woman, tbh, with the cuddling and whatever. Oh well, at least there’s always RealDolls. Maybe I’ve been seeing too much ecchi over the years, and drinking too much tonight.

Look, all I know is that I’m relatively fit, I’m not ugly, and I’m both smart and kind. Why am I not getting likes on dating apps? Why haven’t I gone on any dates after over a year of using multiple apps? It unironically cannot be my fault. It’s because women my age have unrealistic standards. They want the six-pack, the 6’+ height, the six-figure salary. They may be pretty, and sometimes even stunning, but morally, they’re just sows.

And I’m not gonna play “Mr. Fix-It” to a single mom’s broken family. I deserve better than “leftover women.” I know what I’m worth...

EDIT: Oh, and on dating apps, you also get women who aren’t even interested in dating or being friends, but just want you to follow their social media account(s). These people have a special place in Hell waiting for them.
 
Last edited:
12,873
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
Look, all I know is that I’m relatively fit, I’m not ugly, and I’m both smart and kind. ..... It unironically cannot be my fault. It’s because women my age have unrealistic standards. They want the six-pack, the 6’+ height, the six-figure salary. They may be pretty, and sometimes even stunning, but morally, they’re just sows.

And I’m not gonna play “Mr. Fix-It” to a single mom’s broken family. I deserve better than “leftover women.” I know what I’m worth...
Right. Part of me thinks that this is just a troll channeling full incel, but I'm pretty sure you actually believe this bollocks based on your last few posts so I'm treating it as such.


I think it's crystal clear that the problem here is absolutely you. As the saying goes, if you meet an asshole in the morning, you just met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, then you're the asshole. You might think that you're kind, but if we can tell through the internet then I guarantee that the women you meet in real life can also see exactly what sort of person you are. "Kind" people do not call women "sows". Smart people do not think that they're entitled to access to other people's bodies.

You don't have to be anything you don't want to be. But at least have the self-awareness to recognise that the reason that nobody wants to be with you is because you're the sort of person who believes that he's owed a relationship. That is not how it works.

Stop listing what you want (or don't want) from a partner, and start thinking about what aspects of yourself would actually be attractive to another human being. Because I'm seeing a petulant, entitled, horn dog who wants a slave who won't require him to give anything of himself. Lots of demand for those.

Also, "leftover women"? That's disgusting. A woman isn't devalued because she's had sex or children, any more than you're devalued because you haven't. You don't have to fix broken families, because families with single parents are not by nature broken. There's plenty of perfectly normal and capable women who got married and had children only to find out that the man that they married was actually incapable of growing into the sort of worthy adult able to take care of a whole family.

I think you greatly overvalue your "worth". You are not a prize, women should not be flinging themselves at you simply for existing. If you see something in them that you feel is attractive then great, but remember that they need to see something attractive in you as well for any sort of relationship to form.

Honestly, just take @Danoff advice and go and get laid in Nevada. At least there's a chance that some of this ridiculous entitlement will go away when you're not so obsessed with the fact that you haven't had sex. Get your rocks off and then see whether you have anything to offer a partner.
 

Hayden

Chrysler Racer
Premium
3,495
Australia
South Australia
It unironically cannot be my fault. It’s because women my age have unrealistic standards. They want the six-pack, the 6’+ height, the six-figure salary. They may be pretty, and sometimes even stunning, but morally, they’re just sows.

And I’m not gonna play “Mr. Fix-It” to a single mom’s broken family. I deserve better than “leftover women.” I know what I’m worth...
I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt a lot up to this point, but come on man. There is no way you can’t see the hypocrisy here. When women have standards, it’s society’s fault, their fault and everyone but your fault. When you have standards it’s fine because you know your “worth”.

You’ve said before that it annoys you that dating is a game of “smash or pass.” Tinder is not the app for serious relationships and never has been. As for why you aren’t getting matches, it’s because your profile isn’t appealing to people that appeal to you. That’s how the app works. Either you need to improve your profile, adjust your standards or move to an actual relationship website.

Honestly I agree with @Imari above. The term “leftover women” is appalling. Also agree that you should just go pay for some meaningless, pointless sex so you can get this off your back.

Being a virgin isn’t the end of the world. You’ve blown it out of proportion and made it into a much bigger problem than it actually is. I could tell you this another 500 ways but you’d probably skip over it like every time I’ve suggested putting some work into making yourself happy first.

The truth is, and I’m going to quote Ru Paul with this “If you can’t love yourself, how the hell are you meant to love anybody else?”
 

Liquid

Fission Mailed
Premium
25,588
Slovakia
Bratvegas
GTP_Liquid
This all seems centred around personal issues or mental well-being rather than any thread-relevant prejudices.
 

Danoff

Who is John Galt?
Premium
30,954
United States
Mile High City
This all seems centred around personal issues or mental well-being rather than any thread-relevant prejudices.
Oh, I dunno. I'm seeing some general prejudice.
I think I am prejudiced in some subtle ways - at least a little bit - but I'm usually trying to get better about it.

I think it's more than subtle.

EDTI3: Another thing I'll admit is that I think something bad happened to the way women behave in the last couple decades. The percentage of sexless men under 30 has multiplied several times over since the late 00s. Why? I blame women.
...that's a bad start. Teenage sex has been declining. But regardless, men are not owed sex.

Sometimes, women confuse me, and I admit that I have antipathy towards what I don't understand.
It turns out women are people. Sometimes people confuse me too.

Where am I going wrong?
I think we found it.

And I’m not gonna play “Mr. Fix-It” to a single mom’s broken family. I deserve better than “leftover women.” I know what I’m worth...
You don't seem to be respectful of women as people, human beings, individuals. You come off entitled, and prejudiced. I think you need to work on yourself before other people are going to find you attractive. You remind me so much of my friend who flew to Nevada. Also frustrated with women, also entitled, depressed over being alone, and with an inflated sense of self worth and a bit of a disdain for women.

Edit:

I gotta do another round on this one. You actually view a single mom as some kind of failure who needs your manly fixing powers? The layers of wrong in this are bountiful. First of all, you don't seem to be in a position to fix anything. You seem like you're struggling to get your own situation sorted out, so I think some humility is in order. There's some hard working single mom out there who is taking care of herself and her child (or children) and you're looking down your nose at them while you're complaining about being able to take care of your own needs? Unbelievable. If there's a great person out there who is single and taking care of her kids, it would be a wonderful gift if she wanted to share her life and the life of her child with you, and even if you decided you didn't want that gift, you should be deeply respectful of it. Mr. Fix it... what the hell? You're acting like a woman taking care of herself and her child is a failure who needs saving instead of recognizing it as the practically heroic achievement it is. And what is it that you have to offer to "save" her? A penis? Seems like that's the figurative and literal prescription here, neither of which is appropriate.

The reality here is the exact opposite. You're looking for someone to take care of your needs. You're looking for a Mrs. Fix It, not just to take care of you, but to also to provide you with the fiction that you didn't need taking care of, and were in fact the hero all along. There's a lot in there that will be off-putting to a lot of people.
 
Last edited:

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
76,348
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I feel like I have to try harder than most people not to internalize vaguely (if not entirely) sexist pseudoscience
I think something bad happened to the way women behave in the last couple decades. The percentage of sexless men under 30 has multiplied several times over since the late 00s. Why? I blame women.
jim GIF


I’m both smart and kind

alan rickman GIF


Elliot Roger was a monster while simultaneously being a victim of a society that ultimately failed him
I blame women.
I’ll start dating high school girls, then. Or at least I may as well. They always seemed so pure and untainted
Maybe I’ve been seeing too much ecchi
modern degeneracy
Oh well, at least there’s always RealDolls
women my age have unrealistic standards
morally, they’re just sows.
I deserve better than “leftover women.” I know what I’m worth...
Newsflash: you're nowhere near as smart as you think, and certainly not even in the same general region as "kind".

This is just appalling, incel invective. A misogynistic mass killer was a "victim" because women wouldn't sleep with him? You're not to blame for women not sleeping with you because they're degenerates only fit for breeding as cattle, and they have unrealistic standards while you think you deserve better?

You consume paraphilic media, including cartoons which primarily feature the upskirting of underage girls. You then talk about dating schoolgirls - which is predatory at best and paedophilic at worst (you will at this point argue about hebe- and ephebephilia), especially considering the previous sentence. Schoolgirl obsession is all about exploiting their naivity and inexperience of what a normal relationship entails so you get what you want from them without consideration for what they need - that "pure and untainted" quip is telling too; you want their virginity, and one can't help but wonder what use they are to you once it's gone. And then sex dolls...

All of this is an artificial way of living out perversions which you can pose and control (literally, with pause, rewind, and play, in the case of your media), rather than engage with functioning, independent humans. And it's women who take the blame for this, for "changing" since "the late 00s" (when you weren't even an adult yet yourself)?

It very much looks like you don't actually want a companion, you just want something to **** and to control - and if they don't want that too, it's apparently their fault for having standards slightly higher than "be a sex slave".

I've seen many awful things posted on GTP over the years, but this deserves a special place in the vault of dreadfulness.


And who in the entire universe of all things takes an interest in their younger sibling's sex life?

I think my younger brother and I are going to die virgins.
 
14,370
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
Well that escalated quickly.

@MIE1992 I'm not going to pile on with what's already been said, but I'll simply add, until you accept the reality of your situation, you're unlikely to be able to improve it.