Horsepower inconsistancies

[MrktMkr1986]

Wow, some people need to lower thier troll settings. All I was doing was asking a simple question.

I like to keep track of my hp and power to weight ratings in all my cars and I was just curious if anyone had found the same "quirk" in the game and knew which ratings were correct.

👍

Those of you that helped, thanks for your assistance.

Which one of the suggestions make the most sense to you as I've seen several suggestions as to the meaning of the different numbers?

 

[super cirrus]

I think its just an oversight on the part of the programmers. If one number were crank hp and the other wheel hp, the numbers would be alot further apart.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

I think its just an oversight on the part of the programmers. If one number were crank hp and the other wheel hp, the numbers would be alot further apart.

That is true. All of the numbers are either crank hp or advertised figures.

Skyline R34 = 276hp advertised, but 300+ at the crank

 

[Hot4]

The only conclusion that i could draw is that the power rating in the garage is 'power at the engine' and when you take it on the trak to race it is showing 'power at the wheels' ... it is usually always less before you race and this makes sense because power at the wheels is always less than power at the engine.

Any comments?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

The only conclusion that i could draw is that the power rating in the garage is 'power at the engine' and when you take it on the trak to race it is showing 'power at the wheels' ... it is usually always less before you race and this makes sense because power at the wheels is always less than power at the engine.

Any comments?

That's impossible. If it were true the difference would be much greater. Parsitic losses alone are about 15-18% depending on the car -- and that does not take into account weather conditions and the car's overall state of tune. If for example the Viper SRT-10 has 500 horsepower as stated from the manufacturer it should have about 430-460 horsepower at the rear wheels.

Also, if that were the case, how would you explain the Skyline which goes from 276hp - 300+? They all use crank numbers.

 

[incredible]

IMO i dont think PD would not have noticed an issue like this. There must be a reason behind it

so this is my opinion

Used Car Dealer = power of car after you take it for an oil change
Garage screen/Sell Screen = max horsepower that car can have with the upgrades you give to it repesctively
Replay = power you have when you drove that time (so temperature and climate might have something to do with it?)

this sounds abit like my idea of it.

 

[MasterGT]

There is a well researched thread here which describes PD as mixing up PS (German HP) with other measuring systems. If you switch to using PS, the numbers won't change.

My question is, "Why on earth would they do this?"

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[evil gremlin]

maybe for each thing they rate the hp by different places like garage hp could be like 399 at the FLYWHEEL but in the replay its like 384 ant the TIRES i dunno if anyone else said this but thats what i believe

 

[Quattro20v]

I wish PD put their effort on AI instead of this stupid power conversions etc. I couldn't care less if the power was hp/bhp/ps/whatever and did the climate or the colour of the driver's underwear affect the car's power output.

 

[ali900]

had the SAME exact problem
the game showroom/garage shows something
the reply - graphs show something else
its just very very weird!

 

[punkrkr27]

That's impossible. If it were true the difference would be much greater. Parsitic losses alone are about 15-18% depending on the car -- and that does not take into account weather conditions and the car's overall state of tune. If for example the Viper SRT-10 has 500 horsepower as stated from the manufacturer it should have about 430-460 horsepower at the rear wheels.

Also, if that were the case, how would you explain the Skyline which goes from 276hp - 300+? They all use crank numbers.

This is correct. Manufacturers claim a certain HP when they advertise cars. When you watch an ad tv and a company claims that their car has 300hp, they are giving you the HP as rated at the engine, with nothing else attached to it. This is the number you will see at the dealerships in the game. Now, when someone dyno's a car in real life, the HP given is what is at the wheels. This will always be less because you have friction through the transmission, all the the drviline parts, water pumps, alternators, etc. All this stuff takes power away. This is called parasitic loss. So the power at the wheels is always less than at the engine. This is the number you see at the beginning and end of the races. In the case of certain Japanese cars, EVO's and Skylines for example, Japanese automakers had an agreement that they would not make cars over 276hp. Well, they didn't really stick to that agreement, so those cars in reality make around 300hp. But Sony PD used the published numbers. All in all, I think Sony PD did an awesome job with the game because they are showing you all the different types of power ratings you will see in real life.

 

[ArosaMike]

Hi....just thought I'd add my 2ps worth as well. The quoted figure by manufacturers is only a ballpark figure anyway. It'd be impossible in mass production to make say an Audi TT exactly 225bhp (which is what it's quoted at). Most car manufacturers will work to a tolerance of 10% or so. For this reason, you could be lucky and get a 250bhp TT straight from the factory, or you could be unlucky and get one with 200bhp. I've seen dyno plots of both cases, including a standard Lupo GTI that was producing 136bhp (should be 125!). I think that the varying figures could be due to altitude and oil condition etc as well as just manufacturing differences. I remember in GT3 a friend and I were playing at the same time and we both brought R34 Skylines and tuned them in the same way. He got 1176 or something and I could only get 1060 or something. Once the engine had run in I did get 1100 but then his had gone to about 1200!

 

[punkrkr27]

Hi....just thought I'd add my 2ps worth as well. The quoted figure by manufacturers is only a ballpark figure anyway. It'd be impossible in mass production to make say an Audi TT exactly 225bhp (which is what it's quoted at). Most car manufacturers will work to a tolerance of 10% or so. For this reason, you could be lucky and get a 250bhp TT straight from the factory, or you could be unlucky and get one with 200bhp. I've seen dyno plots of both cases, including a standard Lupo GTI that was producing 136bhp (should be 125!). I think that the varying figures could be due to altitude and oil condition etc as well as just manufacturing differences. I remember in GT3 a friend and I were playing at the same time and we both brought R34 Skylines and tuned them in the same way. He got 1176 or something and I could only get 1060 or something. Once the engine had run in I did get 1100 but then his had gone to about 1200!

Yeah there are sooooo many factors in real life that will change the power rating of a vehicle. I think PD did an amazing job of incorporating this in to the game.

 

[Relik86]

My M5 (stock) has 534 in the garage, but in the replays it says 501...

 

[tm2003]

yeah as most people have , agreed, its the general consensus that, manufacturers Hp Is a Generall Term, whereas The Actuall Car Can have more Or less Determined , by other factors 👍

 

[MrktMkr1986]

yeah as most people have , agreed, its the general consensus that, manufacturers Hp Is a Generall Term, whereas The Actuall Car Can have more Or less Determined , by other factors 👍

Precisely...

 

[MADTJ]

The gentlemens agreement is abolished in Japan now, so HP war here we come.
But yeah in real life terms, cars won't have the same horsepower everyday, cooler weather = more power and hot weather + heatsoak = less power.

Yeah, he's right and also high altlute = more power, and low altlute = less power

and also why your grage and preplay is different?? Because you left your car in garge.. so it cause old oil which lost few HP... to get full back HP, get a oil change

 

[TheWizard]

The power figure in the Garage is always in PS, no matter what units you choose in the Options. That's why that number does not agree with the power figure shown on the 'Car screen' (when you click on one car inside your garage) and the one shown on the 'Sell screen'. These two agree with the units chosen in the Options menu.

Here is a little guide that I made not too long ago, with the entire explanation:

Quick Clarification About Power/Torque Figures and Units

The Wizard.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

The power figure in the Garage is always in PS, no matter what units you choose in the Options. That's why that number does not agree with the power figure shown on the 'Car screen' (when you click on one car inside your garage) and the one shown on the 'Sell screen'. These two agree with the units chosen in the Options menu.

Here is a little guide that I made not too long ago, with the entire explanation:

Quick Clarification About Power/Torque Figures and Units

The Wizard.

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Quattro20v]

Yeah, he's right and also high altlute = more power, and low altlute = less power

Oh, I thought it was the opposite because of the density of air: high altitude-low density=less power, low altitude-high density=more power.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

High altitude = less power

Low altitude = more power

He is mistaken.

 

[TheWizard]

Oh, I thought it was the opposite because of the density of air: high altitude-low density=less power, low altitude-high density=more power.

You are absolutely correct 👍
That is also the reason why the Power available and the Thrust available in aircrafts drop with altitude.

I don't think this would apply to GT4, though

The Wizard.

 

[Quattro20v]

Yes, there are many factors. The atmospheric pressure, temperature and humidity all affect the density of the air. On a hot day, or at high altitude, or on a moist day, the air is less dense. A reduction in air density reduces the amount of oxygen available for combustion and therefore reduces the engine horsepower and torque. OK, that's all for now...

 

[MagpieRacer]

my skyline power is well off, 331 in the garage, 276 on the sell sheet, 397 in the settings, 336 in the replay

 

[tm2003]

my skyline power is well off, 331 in the garage, 276 on the sell sheet, 397 in the settings, 336 in the replay

FFS , All of This is explained in the thread, READ

Also Wizards Link, is another thing, it also well explains it. 👍

 

[MrktMkr1986]

FFS , All of This is explained in the thread, READ

Also Wizards Link, is another thing, it also well explains it. 👍

Not necessarily. You see, if his numbers are that varied, the PS to HP theory does not work.

 

[TheWizard]

I am doing some testings in order to find out why the power figure shown on the Replay screen does not agree with the one shown on the Car screen and the one shown on the Sell screen.

I think I have figured out the reason, but I have to test it first.
I don't want to give misleading information.

I will post here when I finish my test session - the results will be posted in my guide.

More to come later.

The Wizard.

 

[tm2003]

I am doing some testings in order to find out why the power figure shown on the Replay screen does not agree with the one shown on the Car screen and the one shown on the Sell screen.

I think I have figured out the reason, but I have to test it first.
I don't want to give misleading information.

I will post here when I finish my test session - the results will be posted in my guide.

More to come later.

The Wizard.

Wizard, Thanks Alot, I Speak On behalf Of Most people, your a real help to these forums, and the input, and testing you o , is way above the call of duty,

thanks again mate, 👍

 

[TheWizard]

No problem, tm2003 👍

I like being of help, whenever I can.

Furthermore, figuring out what all these inconsistancies are due to is something that interests me as well.

to you and everybody else that appreciates my work.

The Wizard.

 

[rennie911]

Has anyone else noticed that when you buy or win on the LeMans cars you get like almost 200hp more than what the specs of the purchase page says? I mean I guess its nice but 900+ hp in a 900 kg car is just too much. It makes cars like the Toyota 88C-V become unrealistically fast. Plus it is here where the Japanese favortism is more notable. For example: Toyota 88C-V is listed as having 788 BHP, in reality it only had 560 BHP

http://www.tte.de/lemans/1988-88c.html

. The BMW V12 LMR is listed as having 571 BHP, in reality it had 590 BHP

http://www.fast-autos.net/bmw/bmwlmr.html

. Its not that they took down the BMW V12 LMR 19 BHP but the fact that they gave the Toyota 88C-V a magical 228 BHP. It makes a difference. I know I'm not the first one to call out the Gran Turismo franchise on this but it just really upsets me sometimes. Don't get me wrong I love this game and I love Japanese cars, but please GT give credit where its due and level the playing field.

yeah there is japanese favouriteism all through this game! theres probably more skylines than all the british or american cars together! theyv got a different model of skyline jus coz its a fancy colour!! WTF!