How can we fix F1?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blake
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Blake
Something like Bathurst (I wish!).

Bathurst would be awesome!! I was watching the V8's on tv yesterday and it was a great race, if F1 cars went round that beast we would be in for a treat for sure... Those concrete walls look like they eat carbon fiber for breakfast!
 
danoff
Why?

What makes it stupid? It would be amazing to watch and would draw viewers and sponsors like nothing else.


It's a gimmick. It's not racing. It's hot wheels. If you want to see cars go upside down go down to your local toy story and buy a Hot Wheels set.

The fact F1 cars can go upside down isn't by design. It is due to the levels of downforce that are designed into the car to make them turn better. The upside down thing is a side effect of the design, not it's purpose.
 
kensei
It's a gimmick. It's not racing. It's hot wheels. If you want to see cars go upside down go down to your local toy story and buy a Hot Wheels set.

The fact F1 cars can go upside down isn't by design. It is due to the levels of downforce that are designed into the car to make them turn better. The upside down thing is a side effect of the design, not it's purpose.

So what? Make it the purpose.

I do see what you're saying though. You're saying that the whole point of F1 is to build the fastest car possible for a road track - a track that simulates what the rest of us might experience on the road... and none of us are going to go upsidown in our cars (on purpose) and so F1 cars shouldn't be made to tackle that challenge.

My response to that is that racing doesn't need to be about reality at all. It doesn't have to simulate anything that any of us might encounter. Racing is about traveling the course the fastest - it's about solving a technical challenge. That challenge can be anything.
 
danoff
My response to that is that racing doesn't need to be about reality at all. It doesn't have to simulate anything that any of us might encounter. Racing is about traveling the course the fastest - it's about solving a technical challenge. That challenge can be anything.

I agree...

But. F1 is road-racing, like roads we drive on. It should be tied to reality. In fact I'd like to see F1 race on more road circuits as there is the connection there between what F1 drivers are doing and what you are doing in your car. I can imagine what it would feel like to drive the Monaco F1 circuit on a normal day in a normal car, knowing the speeds and F1 driver take it at and seeing what I am doing and putting myself in there mentally (plus you can play it in GT).

F1 cars evolved to their present shape in the technical challenge to make a fast car to grip roads. Road racing is based on public roads and like you said public roads don't have many loop-d-loops on them do they?

if you want racing based in non-reality watch oval racing. How many of use turn left only while we drive somewhere (I'm not counting your poor Brits and your traffic circles).

Ever watched airplane racing? They have "courses" where loops are required and so on...it's kinda lame.
 
The Red Bull Air Race was FAR from lame. Watch a Haute Voltige video.

Anyway, an F1 car wouldn't survive driving on the roads near me.
 
Famine
The Red Bull Air Race was FAR from lame. Watch a Haute Voltige video.

Anyway, an F1 car wouldn't survive driving on the roads near me.


I think that is what I saw...it was a red bull event.

F1 is an abstract of driving on the road. Again there are no loop-d-loops on many roads I know. I can't think of a one here in New York City.

If F1 drivers and the FIA considered the banked section of Monza, which is as close to a loop-d-loop as an F1 car has ever raced on (and yes I know a 45 degree banked turn is hardly that but this is as close as you get in reality), too dangerous I can just see some poor guy trying to sell a hot wheels track to them.
 
If F1 is supposed to be all about driving on real roads, maybe I'm not as interested as I thought I was. I view it as an engineering competition. Challenges are put forth and engineers are set out to solve them. I don't remember the last time my driving experience was anything like F1 - which is why I don't tend to link the challenges they solve with ones I'll face. I do, on the otherhand see the link between technological improvements in racing and road cars. I don't need 3 g's of downforce on my car. I don't need 3g's of lateral acceleration on my car. I don't need to accelerate from 150 to 200 mph very quickly. I don't need (or want) tires that give me the best possible traction but that wear out after only one race. I definitely don't want to have to be shoehorned into my car and to have to take the steering wheel out in order to get out of the car.

If the purpose of F1 is to simulate road conditions and try to get around a road-like track as fast as possible... ok. I'll grant you that upsidown segments make no sense.

If the purpose of F1 is to entertain while solving technological challenges, I say bring on the upsidown straight and HUGE ratings.
 
danoff
If F1 is supposed to be all about driving on real roads, maybe I'm not as interested as I thought I was. I view it as an engineering competition. Challenges are put forth and engineers are set out to solve them. I don't remember the last time my driving experience was anything like F1 - which is why I don't tend to link the challenges they solve with ones I'll face. I do, on the otherhand see the link between technological improvements in racing and road cars. I don't need 3 g's of downforce on my car. I don't need 3g's of lateral acceleration on my car. I don't need to accelerate from 150 to 200 mph very quickly. I don't need (or want) tires that give me the best possible traction but that wear out after only one race. I definitely don't want to have to be shoehorned into my car and to have to take the steering wheel out in order to get out of the car.

If the purpose of F1 is to simulate road conditions and try to get around a road-like track as fast as possible... ok. I'll grant you that upsidown segments make no sense.

If the purpose of F1 is to entertain while solving technological challenges, I say bring on the upsidown straight and HUGE ratings.

Who is John Galt?
 
I agree with danoff, push it to the limit technologically for the sake of entertainment. Who wouldn't be excited to see an upside-down section?

If I want to see racing thats more like Australian road conditions and relevant to me, I'd go see a WRC event!!! :lol:
 
James2097
I agree with danoff, push it to the limit technologically for the sake of entertainment. Who wouldn't be excited to see an upside-down section?

Racing alone isn't entertaining enough? We need to add artificial elements to it to make it "a show". If we are going to have loop-d-loops why not put all the driver's in a steel cage after the race is over and "wrestle" to determine the winner. Oh why not have a joint F1/WWE race series...

uggh.

I don't understand why everyone thinks racing needs anything other than, ummm...racing. I used to race snowboards about 15 years ago. Back when snowboard racing was close to ski racing as far as the events. We had slalom, giant-slalom, super-G and downhill. All classic events. Well sometime in the early 90s courses designers started putting jumps and rollers into the courses in order to "make it more entertaining"....eventually we got made for TV events like boardercross...all of which sucked when compared to the discipline of a good slalom or GS course.
 
some people say we are getting close to having the drivers just sit in the pit and control the cars by remote. well, i think thats great! ya know why? because they would have to get up and run around the track trying to keep up with the car so they dont lose the signal! wouldnt it be funny to see jv body check jpm... his controller would fly from his hands and his car would actually stay on track since he isnt driving it anymore... sato already drives like hes driving some tyko 3 wheeled bandit thing i'm sure he'd fit right in!
 
Famine

Anyway, an F1 car wouldn't survive driving on the roads near me.


Meh im sure a couple of pot holes wont go a-miss at silverstone...
 
kensei – this isn’t about creating a show or an artificial experience during a race. Racing on something like that would suck…

But, as a technical challange, I would love to see it done. Just get one car, one driver, and a long cylinder. It would be like the BAR speed test at the salt-flats – just to see if it really can be done.

Blake
 
Blake
kensei – this isn’t about creating a show or an artificial experience during a race. Racing on something like that would suck…

But, as a technical challange, I would love to see it done. Just get one car, one driver, and a long cylinder. It would be like the BAR speed test at the salt-flats – just to see if it really can be done.

Blake


I'm wasn't debating you...rather the idea floated in general that F1 needs some kind of show.

As for getting a car upside down, wouldn't suspending one in a wind tunnel and then watching it suck up to the ceiling do it for you? Ir is this more to have a driver do it?
 
kensei
As for getting a car upside down, wouldn't suspending one in a wind tunnel and then watching it suck up to the ceiling do it for you? Ir is this more to have a driver do it?
TBH I think the real challange is to get it to work outside of artificial conditions (despite the fact that driving upside down in a pipe is somewhat … artificial). The real danger is not in the driving upside down though – it is in making the transition, it would have to be made as slowly as humanly possible (in terms of steering out-put) otherwise I can see a really big accident.

Blake
 
Blake
TBH I think the real challange is to get it to work outside of artificial conditions (despite the fact that driving upside down in a pipe is somewhat … artificial). The real danger is not in the driving upside down though – it is in making the transition, it would have to be made as slowly as humanly possible (in terms of steering out-put) otherwise I can see a really big accident.

Blake


Ever see those things at a carnival where they run the motorcycles and small cars around up on wall? Or the cages they run motorcycles around. Granted that isn't downforce, it is centrifugal force...but still.

I don't know. We seem to agree on alot about F1 but I just can't see myself caring about seeing this.
 
kensei
Ever see those things at a carnival where they run the motorcycles and small cars around up on wall? Or the cages they run motorcycles around.

Wall Of Death.

kensei
it is centrifugal force

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no NO!

*sets hounds loose*
 
F1 is about racing each other, not being able to traverse upside-down track. :lol:

If we need to resort to upside-down track, then, obviously, something DOES need fixing in F1.
 
Yeah, but figuring out how to traverse upside down track safely is ridiculous, when there are other, better, funner, ways of laying out things.
 
Omnis
Yeah, but figuring out how to traverse upside down track safely is ridiculous, when there are other, better, funner, ways of laying out things.

That's a matter of opinion. I think that's just about the coolest thing on the table.
 
Cool, yes, but, it shouldn't be the main focus. I think we should slowly get there. Like, increase banking or something more and more until we've come to an upside-down state.
 
kensei
Ever see those things at a carnival where they run the motorcycles and small cars around up on wall? Or the cages they run motorcycles around. Granted that isn't downforce, it is centrifugal force...but still.

I don't know. We seem to agree on alot about F1 but I just can't see myself caring about seeing this.
Well it’s kinda off-topic because it’s not a way to ‘fix’ F1 IMO – but when danoff suggested the commercial implications I thought it could be a really cool gimmick – and to see if it’s possible (as is the BAR speed test – that’s all it is, a commercial gimmick and to see what top-speed is actually possible by a race legal F1 car).

Blake
 
I'm a huge aviation fan, and air races are cool, but they are almost abstract, because their really is no track, theyre is a 3 dimensional corridor that the aircraft have to maneuver through the quickest. F1 has a two dimensional corridor, with breif introductions to the 3rd dimension on certain tracks. Yes they are capable of doing this and that, but the question is should they. Actually the question is how do we fix F1, well it seems to me like everybody I know, and the majority of the population in the United States thinks its boring. Maybe everybody else on the planet has a little better taste, but bite the bullet for TV ratings here. Whats better than to create a cool gimmick to make the racing different from anything else on earth. I say, bring the third dimension on, even if it is hot wheels. They don't have to run an upside down track, say they add 90 degree banking to a couple corners, just to look wicked. The corner could be in the shape of a bowl at the bottom, so if drivers need to bail they've got a place to go. Can't be too tight, the banking wouldn't actually provide that much extra grip, it would be in a very long sweeping corner so if the drivers need to pull off its not impossible. However, there would be enogh turn in the corner to generate a small amount of verticle G, say 1.5G so the cars were stable and could be maneuvered without falling to the bottom of the track. Just an idea for those who don't like the upside down track.

And if we want crazier, does anybody remember that game by Atari, Hard Drivin? That thing had loop-D's and Corckscrews and all kinds of crazy stuff. The corckscrew could be a literal feature of a track instead of a wicked Chicane at Laguna Seca. Take the pipe idea, but cut out any area that wasn't part of the paved surface, suspend it like a bridge, and bingo presto. Nothing to run into except for the foam pit or whatever you want to choose and we have visible upside down racing for a short period with limited G loads. It would probably be closer to 1G than most of the corners, with no disorientating effects because the drivers always feel like they are being pressed down. Hell if Fighter Pilots can maneuver at 4-9G's for a sustained period of time, I think F1 drivers could handle Earth gravity for a corkscrew without getting too fatigued.

Yes, these ideas are ridiculous, no I don't expect them to be implemented on the F1 circuit ever, nor do I hope they do. But it sure would be cool to see once or twice!
 
one more thing you must think about is what will the drivers do when they come up behind minardi or someone like webber. last i checked hotwheels only made one lane racetracks.
 
Last I checked, hot weels were little die cast cars, not million dollar chassis designed to warp the laws of physics. I'm not talking about creating a passing zone, I'm talking about making a spectacle.
 
I want a massive long straight that looks like a sideways "U" as a cross section (like a C, but shaped like a U). A wide, flat track both regular, AND inverted. That way we can have two drivers racing each other, one directly over the top of the other one, looking down and giving him the "bird", top gun style. Wouldn't that rock?

It would be more dangerous to take the upside down route, but you would go faster down the entire straight because you could take a straighter line out of the preceding corner to line yourself up to go upside down. AWESOME.

And have a big stand for people to watch on the open side of the "U", that way its an awesome spectacle!
 

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