Open How do they do that?

Discussion in 'GT6 Single Races & Time Trials' started by LotusTeam, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    In 2013 when GT6 released, I was absolutely a rookie driver started using a steering wheel to learn GT for the 1st time, now I would not say I'm a good driver but I think I should be able to handle couples of opponent online.....

    I mean, my status now is 88,868.7km (1,255 hrs) practices, I'm still no match with some ALIENS online.

    I met and have known and raced with some super Aliens this year, including those 1st~10th GT Academy dudes, and some crazy guys that were frequently listed at least 50th ranking in the seasonal events TT, they are faster than me by averaged 4~5 secs, I know I'm not the gifted one, but should I and 'they' would have such huge difference with all the effort I put in GT6? What have I done wrong? How do they do that?

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing GT6 very much, but sometimes, I'm just curious in understanding their talent, let me give u an example.....

    I'm off duty this mornng and had a chance playing around with some of my fav cars, say 86GT'12, and was cruising around the DeepForest circuit with 450pp SH tyre, then after 10~15 laps, I gradually reached my limit at average 1'26 with fastest 1'25.975, I know if I continue to hit on the track, I might improve a little bit more but should be within only 1 sec faster.

    Here's my experience, for those Aliens, I know exactly what they are capable of. Conservatively speaking, approximate 1'21.xxx can be done, for those Aliens (some are my online friends now), u guys can try it out and u will know that I'm correct!

    Just want to say....they are simply AMAZING!
     
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  2. Zolon32

    Zolon32

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    Lotus, they have a cocktail of talents, primarily relating to special awareness, I believe, which have been handed down and concentrated over many millennia through the process of evolution. It's easy to imagine that these talents were very useful for hunting, or avoiding danger. I'm sure that 50,000 years ago Ug couldn't believe how good his mate Grunt was at throwing his spear just ahead of his prey at exactly the correct velocity to intercept it.

    There's probably some inner ear stuff going on as well which, whilst you're not experiencing any lateral Gs playing GT, I would expect that the clumps of neurons (technical term :lol:) associated with having good balance can play a part 'virtually', in a similar way to how your mind can make an approximation of a 3D image from a flat screen.

    All this is utter nonsense, of course, I'm not a scientist and have no real insight, but just as a chap who is 5 foot eight can't reach a shelf that a 6 foot three fella would reach easily, you do not seem to be endowed with the innate qualities the Aliens have, by virtue of their ancestor's DNA. There's nothing wrong with admiring these guys (and girls, perhaps). Racing with them, watching replays from their cockpit view or chasing their ghosts on time trials, for as long as you can keep them in sight, can teach you things about lines, throttle control and braking points you might not work out for yourself.

    I consider myself lucky to be pretty average at GT, I can go into almost any room and find someone who's on a similar pace to me and have a really good scrap, and that will do. Let's face it, it's going to have to.

    I hope you have a better season in F1 in 2015, by the way, it's sad to see such a noble team, with such a rich history, struggling along at the back.

    Cheers, Zo.
     
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  3. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    special awareness, evolution, clumps of neurons, ancestor's DNA....hunting instinct huh....? Then I think theses kind of intrinsic attributes are something which cannot be obtained through practices.....

    BTW, yes, love Team Lotus and Ayrton Senna, it was a great team before.
     
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  4. Zolon32

    Zolon32

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    Don't let that put you off practicing and improving. Practice really does help, a lot, and the fact that you can only be as quick as you can be shouldn't stop you striving to be that good, if you know what I mean. Find guys who are a bit quicker than you now, practice and beat them, keep beating them, and look for someone quicker etc. Just be prepared to accept your ceiling when you get there, and be content at that. I know that being competitive is all the rage nowadays, but it's not all it's cracked up to be, contentment is a lot less self destructive.

    Cheers, Zo.
     
  5. Ettick

    Ettick

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    A lot of alien speed comes from being exact and smooth in every situation with every car.
    Watching their laps usually won't even help as a result, all they'll show is that you just need to be a better driver to go faster. And becoming a better driver is pretty damn difficult.
     
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  6. GordonS

    GordonS

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    Hi LotusTeam! Racing games usually become a whole different experience with a wheel so congrats for using it now.
    I say this: don't lose your drivng appetite comparing yourself to the fastest ones. If you were not catching the alien ghosts with the controller you won't be much closer to them with the wheel.
    One never becomes an Alien. You either have the ability or not.
    On a more positive note, find your division here on GTPlanet. You are guaranteed to find nice battles eventually.
     
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  7. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    Thanks for the tips Gordon and yes I found many nice guidances from GTplanet since I seriously PLAY Gt6 using a wheel.

    By the way I notice your signature saying T300RS with G27 pedals.....it that possible? If yes then for me it would be definitely a "GO" to own a new Thrustmaster shortly. (I'm using G27)
     
  8. GordonS

    GordonS

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    It is possible with Ricmotech's adapter cable, about 30 $. I was happy I found that option to re-use G27's pedals. They are so much better compared to the default T300RS pedals.
    Get the cable! :)
     
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  9. NixxxoN

    NixxxoN (Banned)

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    Well, if you talk about the best players in world time trials and such... Aside of their obvious talent...:
    1) They spend a lot of time in the car setup.
    2) They spend a lot of time trying to improve their own time.
     
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  10. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    And the g27 shifter can be re-used as well?
     
  11. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    Yup they spent lot of time doing that, but their talent can't be denied, they can figure out a car's characteristic which they never drive before very quickly
     
  12. Salvaged1Gdsm

    Salvaged1Gdsm

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    heres a mind**** for ya, those "aliens" are actually Bunta Fujiwara behind the wheel :lol:
     
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  13. GordonS

    GordonS

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    G27 shifter can't be re-used if I remember correctly. For me the flappy paddles is the only way to go.
    Merry X-mas!
     
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  14. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Premium

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    I dont agree with the comments about having the ability or not. It takes time and practice. I would not consider myself an alien, but I can match times set by aliens, just putting time and practice into it.

    I believe there is some natural talent out there that can pick up any car and be fast, or pull more out of a car than someone else in a short time. But given time and practice I believe anyone can match the ultimate times set.

    5 seconds is a long way. And using your deep forest example, you are no where near your limit. You are fundamentally doing something wrong on the track to be that far off the pace. Your racing line is what is holding you back at this stage. Setup can account for a second or two, but more than that there is something you are doing wrong on the track.

    Deep Forest is a difficult track to get right and probably not the best track to compare yourself against until you get better.

    You have started off on the right foot though. You have put a lot of time into gt6 over this past year. But we all started somewhere. I have only half the amount of time invested in gt6 compared to you, but have been running Gran Turismo with a wheel since GT4 prologue, nearly 10 years, and with a controller since the first game. With time com
     
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  15. Zolon32

    Zolon32

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    Lion, you are a long, long way off with this assertion. There are fundamental differences in the wiring of people's brains which allow some people to achieve what others never will, in every area of life. A person who cannot accept and live happily with the fact that they can only be so good is looking at a lifetime of frustration and discontent, and that's not a pleasant place to be.

    Zo.
     
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  16. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    Lion I agree practices can improve a lot, but i have to ask u 1 question, have u ever consider u might be one of "THEM".....hahahaha!

    Believe me, for the deep forest example, I know my limit is somewhere around 1'24.xxx, for any further effort put in, the improvement tends to infinite minimal....
     
  17. P1K3Y_M1k3Y

    P1K3Y_M1k3Y Premium

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    Hmmm, interesting discussion, here is my 2 cents.

    I don't consider myself an "alien", others might, but that is for them to decide, from a personal view, I usually have the pace to be near the front of most grids and with practice can usually get close to matching the ultimate times.

    Having a read through, there is nothing I can disagree with, but some things I can't agree with 100%.

    As for the point that some people just simply have a natural talent, whether it be through evolution or brain wiring, they do just get into a new car, track combination and drive it on the limit to achieve the quickest times straight away, however, any "average Joe" with basic knowledge of the racing line, braking points etc. and how to change the basics to attempt to go faster, should, with time be able to work to get close to the ultimate time, and, maybe match it, problem is, by the time the "average Joe" has done it, the "alien" has either improved or moved onto something else.

    Personally I find lapping a track on my own trying to find lap time doesn't do much for me in the way of improvement, but trying to chase down a driver that is a bit quicker than me helps me improve much more, you can see how they take corners, brake etc. etc. and I then work to be able to pass them and then work to be able to pull away once ahead.

    It sounds like you are doing all the right thing's and then being hard on yourself when you don't succeed, keep practicing and you will get closer.

    If you are looking for something that can help more, I would say the WRS races and TT's should help, you will be put into a division with other's of similar pace and moved up if and when you improve (some other clubs do similar, but don't know their names).

    Another option that might help, there are some racing series that try to team quicker drivers with slower drivers.

    I used to run the FGTA WGTC, they have just finished season 2, planning for season 3 starting in the new year (courtesy of @gtpcaine as I am moving onto other sim's). We have had a PRO and AM championship in the 1st 2 seasons and I would think that will remain the same, teams are formed with a PRO and an AM driver together, as the PRO driver should want their AM team mate to do well for the team championship, they should be more willing to help with setup and driving tips during practice (In theory) (also, I believe there are other series now doing the same).

    Good luck in your improvements and may the downforce be with you :cheers:
     
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  18. Johnny P

    Johnny P

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    Here is something i learned playin GT... No matter how much u practice, there will always be a no life that will beat u sometime... Life is unfair lol!
     
  19. EF12345678

    EF12345678

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    Now now, no reason to call people better than you "no-life's." Given that you haven't read the Acceptable Use Policy, I suggest you read it. It has useful information on how the site actually works, and the terms you agreed to whilst signing up.

    www.gtplanet.net/aup
     
  20. Johnny P

    Johnny P

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    I really havent... Thanks for the advice!
     
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  21. Mini Stiggy

    Mini Stiggy Premium

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    Calling someone who you don't even know a no life? Come on:rolleyes:




    As for how to get faster, just keep practicing. Of course some people are going to learn faster than others, or have more raw talent than others, but the more you practice the faster you will get.
     
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  22. Johnny P

    Johnny P

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    Hey, thats is just a way to say the person is addicted or seems to be addicted to the game!
     
  23. Whitetail

    Whitetail Premium

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    I'll tell you all this much, and @Mini Stiggy can back me on this, it's REALLY just a matter of practice and commitment. I'm around 2 years experienced on GT now and when I started I was a lot like the OP questioning the raw times that could be achieved. I race on a DS3 controller and when I first started I was around 3-5 seconds a lap slower than the rest of my class. Now after two years of online racing and dedication I have closed that margin to around a second if that. I still race on a controller and I'm winning with it. Hell, I've won two races this weekend by a margin greater than one lap.

    I would reccomend befriending an "alien" and learning off them. Over the summer I literally put in over a thousand miles training with @Mini Stiggy at the Silverstone circuit for an endurance race. I've been practicing with him and taking tips and as a result I've imoroved my times. Just remember that lap time isn't everything in an online race however, if you can't run a good lap over and over there's no point to push it beyond your limit and lose time through mistakes.

    Put your head down, do your homework, and have the willpower to keep on trying even after a bad race or trial. :cheers:
     
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  24. Alex Ojideagu

    Alex Ojideagu

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    I agree 100%. I'm a musician (guitarist) it annoys me when people think you should be able to pick up an instrument (or anything) after 1 hour and do it well, and people get frustrated if they can't. I was naturally terrible when I began guitar, now I'm a pro level player. Successful people rarely mention the HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of (correct) practice they do compared to non "Aliens". "Talent" is vastly overrated. Nobody is good at anything without huge practice. Of course talent is what gets you to the very very top, but 99% of it is practicing the right way for hours, in whatever you do.

    It's not just about practice, It's practicing correctly. That's why top sportsmen like Tiger Woods or Nadal still have coaches even when they are No:1
     
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  25. Zolon32

    Zolon32

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    Fellas, the point you seem to be missing here is illustrated by the assertion from Lion-Face that anyone, ANYONE! Can match the times of the quicker guys.

    There does come the time when Lion-Face simply cannot take his car around any given lap in a lower time than he has already achieved. Is that the ultimate lap? The fastest physically (you know what I mean) possible? Or is it the case that someone else can beat it? If they can, then, surely, all Lion-Face has to do is to put in a few more laps, and bingo! He's quicker. And, absolutely ANYONE AT ALL can do exactly the same. Anyone.

    NO THEY CANNOT.

    Mr Ojideagu can help me explain why. He is a 'pro level' guitarist, and has achieved that status through many, many hours of quality practice. I have been playing the guitar for around forty years, and I could never be 'pro level'. This is because the wiring of my brain is such that the coordination between my left and right hands is substantially below average. There is nothing I can do about it, and no amount of practice can break through the ceiling that impediment imposes. I had professional lessons and gave myself more than 12 months to learn Classical Gas and play it to my wife on her 50th birthday. I failed.

    Similarly, there are people who's brains are wired in such a way as to render them much less capable than average in respect of 'sensing' the 3 dimensional nature of the virtual track rolling out in front of them as they compete in GT. There is nothing, absolutely nothing they can do about that and, whilst practice will, of course, help them achieve their ceiling, that ultimate pace is entirely unique to them, just as it is to every single one of us on the planet.

    By persisting in asserting that time and practice is all that stands between any player and the very top of the timing lists, you are potentially causing those who are struggling utter misery.


    Cheers, Zo.
     
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  26. Z1-AV69

    Z1-AV69

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    Talking about the absolute limit is pointless. There may be some limit for some, but it is surely way less than 5sec at Deep Forest, 0.5 maybe.

    How much racing games did you before? Especially GT5? Your mileage for that year is pretty good. Keep doing that for 1-2 more years and you'll close much but maybe not all of that gap.
     
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  27. Zolon32

    Zolon32

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    Lukasspeed, it was not me who introduced the concepts of absolutes. Lion-Face has stated, quite categorically, that it is his opinion that anyone (that being an ultimate, in as much as it includes every person on the planet) can match the ultimate times set. That is simply not true. Not only is it untrue, but it is a gross insult to those who are trying, but cannot match the times of the quickest drivers, because it implies that the only reason they are not matching those times is because they are not trying hard enough.

    Zo.
     
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  28. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Premium

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    Fair enough. I have worded it wrongly. What I should have said was something along the lines of near enough to the best. Given enough time and practice, anyone should come close, say within 1 second of the best times. At that pace, anyone should be able to hold their own with the best in a race. The OP says he is approx 5 seconds from the best. What I was trying to point out is at 5 seconds, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the player is attacking the course, be it racing line, brake points, apex, whatever. So what I was trying to say was if one was to put in the time, then they will get closer, a lot closer, than what they believe is currently possible. If you say that there is no point because some peoples brains are wired differently therefore you can't achieve the same, then you are defeating yourself before you have even begun, and I don't like that way of thinking.

    I did speak in absolutes and that was wrong of me, so I apologize for that, as it only confused the matter. What I intended to say and what I did were different things.
     
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  29. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

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    (1) Ok as the host of this thread I re-state the time gap of deep Forrest between me and the aliens, I said I was able to reach at the limit around 1'25 with at best 1'24.xxx, but it was my EXPERIENCE that Aliens can do 1'21.xxx, which is an estimation what so ever and nothing is actually done to prove it, if u guys consider yourself an Alien, please prove me right. (450pp SH - 86GT, tune whatever u want, I remember it was a rough tune for me to hit 1'25)

    (2) I only played GT6 seriously so far, for GT5 it was quite embarassing that I only played offline.....hahahaha!!

    (3) with that being said so much in this thread, I would still insist on my 'talent theory', which means practices CAN improve a lot but will never make you reach the same level of those Aliens in terms of efficiency and outcome
     
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  30. Crozzlow

    Crozzlow Premium

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    This is a great thread and the subject is something I contemplate often, and I humbly add to the conversation.

    Because we are all participating in a "game" and or "sim" and because there are a fixed (although huge) number of inputs, there is potential for a the PERFECT lap. I suspect "Aliens" (that to me is a massively complimentary term in the context of GT6) are searching for that PERFECT lap....If one would message the #1 driver on any given on-line seasonal TT and ask, "Well, was it perfect?" They will probably say, "almost". To me, in my humble opinion, asking if anyone, given enough time, could drive the perfect lap is barking up the wrong tree. We are all looking for our perfect lap, whatever it happens to be and when. All I know for sure is that I am faster than others and slower than some others..Keep on racing, racing and racing and search for that perfect lap...
     
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