- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Wellllllll... damn. Updated links to send you to the spreadsheet, rather than website for now.
How does the tranny trick work?
- Thread starter Brunet Paquet
- 116 comments
- 13,521 views
Wellllllll... damn. Updated links to send you to the spreadsheet, rather than website for now.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
Thank you very much for this and the explanation further up the thread. I will investigate this later. Transmission tuning is the one thing that I've just muddled through, doing the same thing over and over, as detailed earlier. It has cost me more than a few podium finishes...
{Cy}
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
Alright, thanks. And thanks for your contribution, your work is greatly appreciated.
- 12,337
- paracuru
- praiano63
Yes Mr Adrenaline.
Very nice and simple way to calculate ratios. I did myself an excel file with your formula. It work perfectly but there is some problems.
When you have a big difference between max power rpm and max torque rpm, the gears ratios windows will not offer to you sometime the option to select your number. Not available.
To have more range of ratios available you need to increase your top speed first a lot.
After this, when you can have your ratios and go on track (speed test), you put a max speed adequate to the track with FG (up right).
With my zonda C12 S 7.3 , i had to start in 3rd gear to not spin wheel too much. Very short 3 first gears.
The result is exactly what the formula is supose to do. When you shift , the retake is at the rpm of the max torque.
Perhaps it's the perfect setting in the real life, but it don't have the best performance in the game at all.
I race it against a tranny trick setting that stay in hight rpm where the max power is, and the ghost stay far behind.
ZONDA C12 S 7.3 / max power 676hp/6500rpm // max torque 622/4600rpm. A huge torque.
Have a good day.
><(((((°>°°°°°°
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
JeremiahTB
(Banned)
- 287
- United States
- JeremiahTB
Motor City HamiThank you. You should really only listen to half of what Adrenaline says... well... and half of what I say. Somewhere in there is something fast.
If you take half of each, then you have it all...haha.
But seriously, both of you guys have improved much of my garage.
Musolini187
(Banned)
- 317
- Cuijk Noord
- Musolini187
guys theres so many different methods, isnt there just a best 1. like the first, or like praianos or one of these calculation ones. i wnted to try the first one, but praianos seemed better though not easier. the others ones take even more time. any help for this transmission noob?
p.s. are these values so that the car wont have wheel spin when exiting slow corners or making sure your car accelerates in the fastest way possible? thanx.
p.s. are these values so that the car wont have wheel spin when exiting slow corners or making sure your car accelerates in the fastest way possible? thanx.
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
Trial and error, Sir. The way I currently do my gearboxes (detailed above) can be done using the old fashioned MkI Eyeball. Even though I do use a spreadsheet to work out the exact numbers, I can quickly achieve a very similar thing just by using the incremental markers on the slider for each ratio. To get a rough approximation takes a matter of minutes. Praiano's method is surely as quick and even though I've not tested Adrenaline's spreadsheet, I'm sure it is as easy. Once you've found a method that suits you, you'll be knocking gearboxes out with gay abandon 👍
And yes, a good gearbox will help you reduce wheelspin by applying the power more effectively...
You'll rip through those gears like a Jack Russell does freshly delivered mail...
{Cy}
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
@Cy most of my recent tunes have had the transmissions set up with 2nd on up at 100%. The one exception was my entry for the F.I.T.T. 2000 shootout that I got so much grief about.
Granted I do most of my driving with an automatic, but after a lot of testing on the speed test track it will get you very close to the best acceleration possible with most cars. Making 1st gear, and sometimes 2nd, longer to minimise wheelspin, but not so long as to cause the engine to bog down will allow for very quick acceleration. Might not be "true to life", but seems to work well in the game. Now the torque available and power curve of the engine can have an effect on how well this type of setting works, so very peaky engines that drop off sharply prior to redline will need a bit more playing with the higher gears for best results but most cars in game seem to fair at least adequately with this type of setting. The added benefit is for us math dummies as its quick and easy to set initially, much like praiano's method and only a little trial and error is needed to adjust 1st and possibly 2nd gears.
Granted I do most of my driving with an automatic, but after a lot of testing on the speed test track it will get you very close to the best acceleration possible with most cars. Making 1st gear, and sometimes 2nd, longer to minimise wheelspin, but not so long as to cause the engine to bog down will allow for very quick acceleration. Might not be "true to life", but seems to work well in the game. Now the torque available and power curve of the engine can have an effect on how well this type of setting works, so very peaky engines that drop off sharply prior to redline will need a bit more playing with the higher gears for best results but most cars in game seem to fair at least adequately with this type of setting. The added benefit is for us math dummies as its quick and easy to set initially, much like praiano's method and only a little trial and error is needed to adjust 1st and possibly 2nd gears.
- 12,337
- paracuru
- praiano63
Now with the speed test it' s easy to check the best configuration. Gearbox settings more adequate, shifting point............. You can see all this happen with your ghost.
There is no perfect universal gearbox. Any case is a special case.
Depending of your car, power,torque, grip , the speed it need to reach on a certain track.... And also depending of all this, if you need to perform a good grid standing start ,the perfect 1st gear for this.
I like to use all the car have. From the first gear to the last. 1st as long as possible.
><(((((°>°°°°°°
There is no perfect universal gearbox. Any case is a special case.
Depending of your car, power,torque, grip , the speed it need to reach on a certain track.... And also depending of all this, if you need to perform a good grid standing start ,the perfect 1st gear for this.
I like to use all the car have. From the first gear to the last. 1st as long as possible.
><(((((°>°°°°°°
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
Listen to them two /\/\ they speak wise words.
As a default, 1st gear at 40% is just a starting point which will be adjusted up or down depending on wheelspin or bogging down on launch. Not something I ever bothered with when building for Time Trialing or running Seasonals. It's not unusual to move 1st up toward 50-60%, not often it gets shifted down...
{Cy}
As a default, 1st gear at 40% is just a starting point which will be adjusted up or down depending on wheelspin or bogging down on launch. Not something I ever bothered with when building for Time Trialing or running Seasonals. It's not unusual to move 1st up toward 50-60%, not often it gets shifted down...
{Cy}
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Much of my racing these days is in DeadNutsEven with street cars on CM to SH tires, standing start, so setting up first and second individually for launch through track testing is a must. Too much wheelspin or bog at the start can quickly have you at the back of the field, and in a formula where everyone is literally DeadNutsEven in terms of lap times, that can be awfully costly.
I use the tranny trick to do a basic setup and then head to the track to test first gear. Once I set up first for ideal launch (sometimes you have to launch in second depending on the car/tire/PP combination) I then set up the rest of the gears in terms of spacing from first.Setting up first and second all the way to the left works fine if you are doing a rolling start, time trial, tuning shootout etc. But if you are planning on a standing start race you absolutely have to set up first for launch or you'll be shot down in flames.
dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
Do it like this if your car is powerful enough (no bog in first). 👍
Quite close to what drag trannies look like. It's noteworthy that it's not such a great method (the gear spacing, not the tranny trick itself) for AWD's or very weak cars.
And btw, the final gear doesn't have to be all the way to the right at the beginning nor does it have to be all the way to the left at the end.
The tranny trick aka tranny flip aka final gear trick is generally this way:
1. Set final gear to a certain number (not limited to the right direction)
2. Set max. speed (and never touch it again - oh and it doesn't always have to be the lowest)
3. Set (a lower) final gear to a certain number
You can also do a reversed final gear trick and also keep in mind that the final gear number truly makes a difference in acceleration and even car behaviour (only slightly though). You can set the "same" tranny by using different final gears (single gear ratios will change too) by using other numbers in step 1 if you keep the ratio between the numbers of step 1 and 3.
I'm just that douche who's been doing 3k drag racing with the best for just about 1¾ years... : )
Last edited:
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 12,337
- paracuru
- praiano63
Because it don't give a perfect result. You will have a bigger space between 1 and 2 gear, the retake will be done at a lower rpm.
It's like an accordion, the spaces have to move together.
And it sound better , good thing,
In my opinion.
👍
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
Part of the reason to do the tranny trick is to get closer gear ratios.
Also the games treatment of transmissions doesn't seem to be 100% accurate at least as far as my limited understanding of things goes. In real life if you know the tire diameter, final gear ratio and engine rpm you should be able to calculate the maximum speed for a given gear. Say a fairly high powered sports car that will reach 65mph in 2nd gear at redline. Changing only the 6th gear ratio shouldn't affect either the max speed in 2nd or the acceleration of the car to 60mph. But in the game just changing the 6th gear will affect both acceleration and top speed in 2nd. Doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone with more knowledge could explain why that's correct though. Found this out about the game after spending a couple days on the speed test track trying to optimize both acceleration and top speed for a car I was tuning.
Used automatic transmission and only changed one setting at a time while doing this so there was no "human" factor involved that might account for the variations in time and speed.
- 12,337
- paracuru
- praiano63
You can perfectly deduct the tire perimeter in the game, only with the stock tires to be acurate. GTAuto rims are giving faster speed result than it should be.Part of the reason to do the tranny trick is to get closer gear ratios.
Also the games treatment of transmissions doesn't seem to be 100% accurate at least as far as my limited understanding of things goes. In real life if you know the tire diameter, final gear ratio and engine rpm you should be able to calculate the maximum speed for a given gear. Say a fairly high powered sports car that will reach 65mph in 2nd gear at redline. Changing only the 6th gear ratio shouldn't affect either the max speed in 2nd or the acceleration of the car to 60mph. But in the game just changing the 6th gear will affect both acceleration and top speed in 2nd. Doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone with more knowledge could explain why that's correct though. Found this out about the game after spending a couple days on the speed test track trying to optimize both acceleration and top speed for a car I was tuning.
If you know the speed you drive in X gear and if you know the ratio of this gear and the final gear, it's easy to calculate.
Anyway, like you say, the best thing is test track and ghost to check the result of your settings.
Here is a sample of my excel sheet. You just have to enter the red values, for the tire perimeter just try to find the one that will match with the speed that the car is showing you on track at this rpm.
- 497
- Scotland
- KraigA
If anyone is still unsure or confused at the instructions of how to flip transmissions, I demonstrate it well on my very fast drag tune videos on my YouTube - www.youtube.com/fraternity187
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Part of the reason to do the tranny trick is to get closer gear ratios.
Also the games treatment of transmissions doesn't seem to be 100% accurate at least as far as my limited understanding of things goes. In real life if you know the tire diameter, final gear ratio and engine rpm you should be able to calculate the maximum speed for a given gear. Say a fairly high powered sports car that will reach 65mph in 2nd gear at redline. Changing only the 6th gear ratio shouldn't affect either the max speed in 2nd or the acceleration of the car to 60mph. But in the game just changing the 6th gear will affect both acceleration and top speed in 2nd. Doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone with more knowledge could explain why that's correct though. Found this out about the game after spending a couple days on the speed test track trying to optimize both acceleration and top speed for a car I was tuning.
I'll have to test that theory but I don't see how changing 1st alone would affect anything else to any degree that it would matter. I don't see any other gear ratios changing when I alter 1st or 6th or any other gear.
Onboy123
Premium
- 8,872
- Hong Kong
- Onboy123
Am I the only one left that just eyeballs gearboxes?
I count in clicks and measure by memory.
Edit: I'd like to find the origin of the tranny trick, anyone know where it first cropped up online by chance?
Eh, I don't even bother with theories unless it's drag gearboxes. I just guess a good final gear (normally 4.000 - 4.500 is good enough for 550PP cars), do the trick, and then just make the lines look pretty. And also check the launch to see if the car actually moves, of course.
I think it originated from GT4, since I read something from then about using the "Autosets" and such to get tighter ratios but with a higher top speed.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
I can't recall if it was GT3 or GT4, I'm more curious to find the impossible, which would be the first online open sharing of the idea.
I guess pinpointing which game it was available in first would help though, I'll have to google it...
GT3, 2003 - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32000
So it'll be prior to that...
I'll dig some more later.
I guess pinpointing which game it was available in first would help though, I'll have to google it...
GT3, 2003 - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32000
So it'll be prior to that...
I'll dig some more later.
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
It doesn't change ratios of other gears but there are very small differences in your elapsed times and/or top speeds obtained in other gears than the one changed. While 1/10th of a second difference in your 0-100 time doesn't seem like much unless your a drag racer, think about how much little bits of time like that can add up over longer races especially on tracks like the Nordschliefe. Getting better acceleration out of corners can make it easier to either catch a draft or to pull away from the competition and limit their ability to draft you.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If you change 1st gear for launch but never use it on the track other than for launch, and use the rest of the transmission as it would be set up using the tranny trick, I'm not sure how that would affect lap times, if at all. I must be missing something. Are you saying that changing first gear all by itself, does not change the gear ratios of other gears, but does affect how the other gears allow the car to accelerate?
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
Yes to a small extent, which I received a semi logical explanation for. Of more concern to me though was how changing the higher gears affected the acceleration in lower gears. Makes no sense that changing 5th or 6th gear effects acceleration in 1st and 2nd and yet in game it does.
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