How long will the standard car models live and how will they evolve over time?

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xSNAKEx

xSNAKEx

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I was thinking, prior to the 1.06 patch, most of the standard car models were over 7 years old, yet they still, to everyones suprises incorporated them into gt5, literally copy pasted with no work done to them.

What do you think PD is intending to do with the current standard models in the future, e.g GT6?

Is GT5 last we will ever see of the 2003 models created for the ps2?

Will we see every standard car upgraded to next-gen specs, or will we have to accept that the next GT will have have a smaller range of cars, but will do away with premium and standard cars altogether as they will all be "premium" so to say?



Recently, with the 1.06 patch, I dont know what to make of the improvements done to the model...It has really got me puzzled.

Did they simply use some kind of advanaced filtering and upscaling, or did they actually go in and re-work the models with manual labour?

Neither of these seem to make sense to me. Is there answer a somewhere in the middle?

The improvements are way too good for it to be some kind of filter technique applied to all cars generically, because you can clearly see detail to tailights, livery, relections, lighting etc has been added.

However, the amount of detail is nowhere near close enough to be acceptable by 2011 standars, so it seems very strange that people would manually take the time to work on the models individually and not do a better job.


So are we seeing incrimental imrovements to the standard car models which will eventually get them to premium quality, or were the improvements in 1.06 just a one of hurrah to get some decency into the standard car models, and any future modeling of the standard cars will be done from scratch.....

P.S I was always in favour of the standard car models being implemented into GT5. I always thought of it as a bonus. You get over 200 premium model cars, and 800 that I would rather have than not, even if they are not modelled beatifully.
 
I wouldn't doubt someone or a team at PD are working on improving the standard models. To the level of being premium? Perhaps, depending on the car we are talking about (For sure some Skylines will get the premium treatment while a C5 Corvette will have to sit it out again).

Kaz did say standards will be upgraded to premiums, but don't hold me to that as that bit of news was from a long time ago. And Kaz does say a lot of things, but don't end up being implemented.
 
I suspect they may have made some global changes that could improve textures, reflections, etc and maybe addressed certain vehicle specific issues on a case by case basis.

My understanding is that the rendering capability of the PS3 is not sufficient to fully exploit the modeling work put in the Premium cars and that they'll be able to be carried over to GT6. There will probably be Premium cars released with the knowledge that the work put into them will also be applicable to GT6.

Cars that may not be carried over to GT6 would presumably not get a Premium treatment (in my opinion).
 
I hope all the standards die within 15 min when the next seasonals come out (+\- 24 hrs, or a week with out notice if your'e PD).
 
II-zOoLoGy-II
I hope all the standards die within 15 min when the next seasonals come out (+\- 24 hrs, or a week with out notice if your'e PD).
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That's a bit harsh, considering the standards didn't do anything to you. Other than probably annoy you.
 
"Premium" cars are not actually premium in comparison to their competition. They are actually... standard, meaning, they meet the common standard. High resolution, customizable, in-car view enabled... these things are STANDARD among other games in this genre. So GT5 "Standard" cars are actually sub standard. Nobody else would release these low res crappy looking cars and I hope PD does not ever release them or a variation of them in the future. I didn't get a big ass HD TV to look at a bunch of jagged looking PS2 cars. I would like to see all of the games car's meet current quality standards/expectations. If you can't make in car views for all of them, fine then, but at least make the exterior look good for christs sake.

That sounded like a rant, not ranting... Okay maybe a little. sorry.
 
sumbrownkid
That's a bit harsh, considering the standards didn't do anything to you. Other than probably annoy you.
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Lol. Is it so much to ask to sit in the cockpit of oh I don't know... 80% of the in game cars? But hey, at least I get to sit in a focus, prius and schwimmwagen! Good call PD good call.
 
^Yeah I'm with you on that one.

Me personally, I have no qualms with standards, and my favorite cars a standards.

But by GT6, I don't want to see any "standard" car make the cut.
 
B Quiet N Drive
"Premium" cars are not actually premium in comparison to their competition. They are actually... standard, meaning, they meet the common standard. High resolution, customizable, in-car view enabled... these things are STANDARD among other games in this genre. So GT5 "Standard" cars are actually sub standard. Nobody else would release these low res crappy looking cars and I hope PD does not ever release them or a variation of them in the future. I didn't get a big ass HD TV to look at a bunch of jagged looking PS2 cars. I would like to see all of the games car's meet current quality standards/expectations. If you can't make in car views for all of them, fine then, but at least make the exterior look good for christs sake.

That sounded like a rant, not ranting... Okay maybe a little. sorry.
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To be fair, while their "premium" cars may "only" be on par with the competition, their physics and field size are better, making much more of a difference in my opinion. I'm not sure they could increase rendering for a large field size while maintaining a decent frame rate. If anything had to suffer there, I'm glad it was rendering.

I didn't buy the game to just look at pretty cars on my big ass HD TV. :sly:
 
II-zOoLoGy-II
Lol. Is it so much to ask to sit in the cockpit of oh I don't know... 80% of the in game cars? But hey, at least I get to sit in a focus, prius and schwimmwagen! Good call PD good call.
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It's not asking much. But actually working on getting those interiors down accurately takes up time, and more importantly, money.

And don't you dare hate on the Schwimmwagen and Prius!

I <3 them!:)
 
Standards are fine. I'd rather see them in GT6 than a full premium line up since the latter would just take more time. All the standards need is cockpit view, and that doesn't require 40000000000000000000000000000000 polygons.
 
sumbrownkid
It's not asking much. But actually working on getting those interiors down accurately takes up time, and more importantly, money.

And don't you dare hate on the Schwimmwagen and Prius!

I <3 them!:)
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Time and money? Oh you mean 5 years and +6.3 million copies sold?
 
Were all standards updated, or just a handful? Is there a list that shows which have been updated somewhere?
 
charliec
To be fair, while their "premium" cars may "only" be on par with the competition, their physics and field size are better, making much more of a difference in my opinion. I'm not sure they could increase rendering for a large field size while maintaining a decent frame rate. If anything had to suffer there, I'm glad it was rendering.

I didn't buy the game to just look at pretty cars on my big ass HD TV. :sly:
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The physics are better, but not by enough to make up for anything else being less than acceptable. The field size, is irrelevant in this case. They could still have 16 premium cars in the field.
 
B Quiet N Drive
The physics are better, but not by enough to make up for anything else being less than acceptable. The field size, is irrelevant in this case. They could still have 16 premium cars in the field.
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Not sure why you think field size is irrelevant...I'd assume that while processing AI, particle/environmental effects, lighting, etc all at a 60FPS target, the load on the PS3 will increase with every additional vehicle as those things have to be done with every additional vehicle.

They could probably run a smoother frame rate with better rendering with a field size of 6 or 8 but that's much less interesting in my opinion.
 
II-zOoLoGy-II
Ya 1.

Un-customizable.

Edit: 2 sorry, forgot about the Toms.
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I count SEVEN

the aforementioned Yellowhat
au Cerumo Supra '01
Three Castrol Tom's '97, '00, '01
Denso Sard Supra GT
Woodone Tom's Supra '03

Even though several are only UCD available, they are in-game and race ready. If all you want is too see a cockpit view, grab some old import tuner magazines :dopey:
 
diabolicwyvern
I count SEVEN

the aforementioned Yellowhat
au Cerumo Supra '01
Three Castrol Tom's '97, '00, '01
Denso Sard Supra GT
Woodone Tom's Supra '03

Even though several are only UCD available, they are in-game and race ready. If all you want is too see a cockpit view, grab some old import tuner magazines :dopey:
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Ok... so how are they available in the UCD but Premium race-trim at the same time?

Nice try.

But you fail.

Still only 2.
 
Actually the so called premium cars are not that future-proof. Sure, they are high-poly but:
  • They lack a good damage model. Glass doesn't break and the cars are melting!
  • Mechanical Parts are not modedeled so when the car is damaged you don't see the mechanical parts but the road (rally cars are the exception)
  • Suspension parts are not modeled and the wheels which have a solid black interior face are awful!
  • Car upgrading is not realistic or fun:
    • You make a weight reduction and the cockpit of the car remains the same (no seats are removed, no bucket seat are placed, leathers are not replaced with carbon fiber, etc)
    • Likewise exterior chrome detailing is not removed and only the hood is replaced with a carbon fiber hood. Car upgrading doesn't make the car feel like a racing machine, but more like a pimped-out ride with a funny bad-taste spoiler at the back.
    • You make a rigidity improvement and a roll-cage is not installed.
    • And when these are fixed a livery editor, even a basic one, should be introduced.
  • The cockpit lacks reflections on the windscreen and it doesn't seem like there is a windscreen.

And then there are the shadows and the blocky smoke which make the cars look bad during gameplay. Yes, in photo-mode the cars of GT5 look better than any other game in the hands of a talented virtual photographer. But I think that since the core of the game is driving and racing (well to be honest I don't think that racing is part of the game...) they should have made sure that cars look good during gameplay.

Anyway, I get the feeling that 1080p and the extremely high-poly are making the game look worse. It's good that PD let us have 16 car races (8 cars are way to little) but they should have made the game more balanced.

As for the standard cars in GT5 they will live forever!! :D
I don't believe that there is any profit for PD or Sony to upgrade standard to premium. We bought the game!
There are reports on the contrary but I believe that they are bad translations or wishful thinking! Just like there were reports about the most advanced damage model ever prior to GT5's release and we all have seen how that turned out! 👎

As for potential future games, which are not a given (and come on, GT5 just got released and you are already getting hyped for the next one?!), I believe PD (or whoever else is the developer for Sony's next sim-driving-racing-game) will drop ALL standard models and will model new cars with cockpit and a more realistic damage model from scratch (outsourcing maybe?), hopefully including some historic cars that give so much character to GT5.
 

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