How to deal with quicker drivers?

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kilesa4568
I had a look at the online racing guidelines but couldn't really find a proper answer so I'll ask it here.

I do a lot of the quick matches and have a fair amount of success with them but what do you do if you have someone chasing you who consistently posts quicker overall times? Do you obstinately defend your line in the corners, compromising your own times but keeping the position or do you cut your losses and let them pass?

I'm only (only?:boggled:) talking about maybe a second a lap slower but with me using auto and sticks and close to my limit, is it fair to hold them up? Especially if you're 2nd and maintaining/losing ground to 1st.

If they're more than a second a lap quicker, they can easily pass on the straights with their better exit speed so I don't defend as hard. It's those drivers close to my speed I'm wondering about.
 
VBR
The Good Racecraft Guide





We already have the excellent GT Planet Online Racing Rules & Guidelines (OLR) that defines very clearly what good racing is to us, I expect you have all read & refer back to them regularly so that you understand what is required of GT Planet members when racing online in certain organised events. However, what about their practical application & all the subtle nuances that constitute good racecraft?

This article will cover what the cleanest gentleman drivers here at GT Planet consider to be good racecraft, etiquette/manners, & general sportsmanship. If you have any opinions on the matter please post them in this thread, together we can make each other better & more considerate drivers by sharing the wealth of knowledge we all have regarding exactly what it is that defines good racecraft. The following is based on my many experiences of gentlemanly online racing with some the cleanest forum members out there over the last few years, mainly in GT5 Prologue & GT5, but now also in GT6.​




Defending & Attacking

  • An experienced racer will take whatever line he feels necessary into any given corner in order to defend & maintain his place, he is entitled to do so as he has track position over the pursuing driver, remember that the fastest line is not always the winning one. It is the other chaps job to force him into an error, whilst still driving cleanly of course, or wait for one to occur naturally & then take advantage of it, albeit in the proper fashion. An inexperienced racer will, in his endless optimism, tend to stuff it up the inside at every unavailable opportunity when trying to pass, imagining he is driving well but making far too much contact & causing many unnecessary incidents. Also, some lacking in good racecraft tend to drive right up to & into the driver in front, as they do not have the common sense to adjust their throttle & braking to account for following in the slipstream of another. You will notice that drivers who have good racecraft make very little contact when following & passing others on track.



Overtaking & Being Overtaken

  • When attempting to overtake up the inside on the run up to a tight high speed corner, like 130R on Suzuka for instance, sometimes you are not close enough to pull it off. The discerning driver knows when this is the case & will yield by coming off the throttle or even braking a little if necessary, so as not to cause an incident. There is after all only 1 racing line through 130R. The aggressive driver goes for it regardless, stuffs it up the inside, causes an incident, & puts his poor racecraft on display for all to see. If both cars do somehow manage to make it through the corner side by side, which will obviously result in lower cornering speeds, the bad driver has now let the rest of the field catch up some, let the the drivers ahead increase their lead, or sometimes both. Not only is it bad manners, it is also counter productive. You will not see mature racers executing such mindlessly aggressive do or die maneuvers, they get their overtaking done well before the apex of such corners.

  • When being overtaken up the inside on the run up to a tight high speed corner, like 130R on Suzuka for instance, the competitive driver with good racecraft recognises when the battle is lost & will yield by coming off the throttle or even braking a little if necessary, so that both cars can make the apex of the corner at pretty much full racing speed. The overly optimistic driver will carry on around the outside at full throttle in a dangerous attempt to defend his position, which is clearly already lost. You will not see top class racers out on track performing in this way, as this kind of optimism can lead to a catastrophic & entirely unnecessary incident. However, a possible exception to these scenarios might be when two intelligent drivers are more or less alongside each other on the run up to 130R & battling for position on the final lap, where driving slower & side by side through the corner to keep track position would lead to a win, or a higher finishing position.

  • The correct or optimal racing line in certain corners, like the last turn at Fuji for instance, can look very wide to the untrained eye. The undiscerning racer cannot tell the difference between a driver taking the correct racing line, & one going wide into these types of corners, he thinks the chap in front has made an error & stuffs it up the inside in a futile effort to overtake. When the driver in front accelerates towards the apex, the driver behind now finds he has placed his car in the wrong position, & there is contact. Once again, by slowing both cars up the bad driver has let the chaps in front pull away some, & those behind catch up. The intelligent racer knows there is usually no real advantage to this, & does his overtaking on the following straight or when he sees someone has actually gone wide in these types of corners.

  • When the driver of the car in front has made an error & gone wide into a corner, the well mannered driver behind will go for the overtake but leaves just enough room for him as he accelerates out, this is because he knows that the other car is still going round on the outside of the track. An inexperienced driver, or one with bad manners, will also go for the overtake but accelerates out of the corner at full speed using all of the proper racing line as if he is the only one on track. This leads to contact, pushing the other driver off track, or even an incident involving multiple cars if battling in a pack. You will not see gentlemanly racers causing this kind of incident through such a lack of manners.

  • When an experienced & thoughtful racer is being overtaken up the inside in slower/wider corners, he knows where the other driver is on track & leaves him just enough room so that they can drive around together side by side, he takes a different line while still maintaining a reasonable amount of speed. The aggressive or unthoughtful racer tries to return to the racing line, turns into the other driver & causes unnecessary contact, as he is not discerning enough to make the correct adjustment to his line. Drivers with good racecraft have the ability to adapt quickly to various situations, to make better judgements, & tend to avoid & not cause as many incidents.



Drafting

  • It is considered extremely unsporting to weave about left & right all over the track trying to stop your opponent from drafting you, it is also quite undignified & not at all gentlemanly (do not confuse this with blocking by weaving to stop another driver from passing you, which as you already know is against the OLR, see rules 10:A-C). A well mannered & intelligent racer may choose to take a variety of different lines through corners to try to minimise the amount of draft his opponent gets, he is entitled to take any line he wishes being the driver in front. Also, when coming onto the straight, he may continue turning past the track out point & take a different line down it. From then on however, manners dictate that he only has 1 move either left or right to choose his line into the next turn, this should be done early & slowly enough to give other drivers following behind a fair chance to react, lest there be an otherwise avoidable incident.

  • When drafting in a pack down the straight heading for a turn, the experienced driver near the back knows that he is drafting a car that is drafting other cars, & is thus travelling significantly faster than everyone else. He also knows that he will need to brake much earlier than the others to avoid contact by the end of the straight, especially if the chaps in front are going in 3 or 4 abreast & there is no room to pass. The optimistic driver thinks he can overtake them all & come out in 1st place. He carries on, brakes way too late & ploughs through those in front causing chaos, & ends up off track or having to wait for those he hit. Experienced racers hardly ever find themselves in this position, on the rare occasions they do it's usually just down to braking errors, & most certainly not due to wildly optimistic overtaking maneuvers.

  • When overtaking another car near the end of a straight, it is good manners to leave the other driver his line, & stick to your own. It is bad manners to quickly swerve in front of the car you have just passed, take his line & brake. This is because you will be travelling much faster due to drafting him & will have to brake significantly earlier, the other driver will have almost no time to react by changing his line or braking point. This kind of bad racecraft can lead to many unnecessary incidents going into turns at the ends of straights, you will not see the more experienced & well rounded drivers performing this kind of maneuver.

  • When a thoughtful racer finds himself drafting a different make of car down a straight that's faster, but with less braking power & slower round corners, he pulls out of the draft much earlier than usual. This is so he can out brake him going into the next turn, without running into the back of him. The unthoughtful racer carries on oblivious to the fact that he is just about to cause a major incident. Good racecraft also involves taking into account the diverse range of vehicles, tunes, & personalities out on track, & how this can dynamically alter the way the race pans out through the various & ever changing situations as they unfold.


Please note; as regards Drafting, certain ponts may be less relevant when Slipstream is set to Real in GT6's online lobbies.







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PS: If anyone wishes to use the GRG here on GT Planet, they are more than welcome to post a link to it in their thread. Anyone wishing to copy & paste this article onto another website may do so, as long as they credit me (VBR from GT Planet) as the original author, & provide a link back to the first post in this thread.
 
I've read all of that before but wasn't sure if it included the fact I know the driver behind was consistently quicker than me.

I guess I need to be more ruthless.
 
Just because you are slower doesn't mean you have to give the position away. Drive clean but make the pursuing driver earn the pass for position. It they are faster than you they will get by and there won't be too much you will be able to do about it cleanly.
 
**** but what do you do if you have someone chasing you who consistently posts quicker overall times? Do you obstinately defend your line in the corners, compromising your own times but keeping the position or do you cut your losses and let them pass?

I'm only (only?:boggled:) talking about maybe a second a lap slower but with me using auto and sticks and close to my limit, is it fair to hold them up? Especially if you're 2nd and maintaining/losing ground to 1st.

I'm no expert on this, but in my opinion you have answered your own question with the second two sentences above:

1) Defending your line in the corners is compromising your own times
2) You are losing ground to the car ahead of you

IMO, you should let the faster car thru and see how long you can hang with them.👍

In a case where the following car is just a little faster, so once you let them thru, you find that you can hang with them throughout the rest of the race, then you have found out two things: 1) you may be faster than you thought!:) 2) In the next race you might not need to let them thru:)

If you know that the following car is faster, I always try to let them thru as quickly as I can and then follow (if I can:drool:). This might take a corner or two before I realize who is behind me and how fast they are, but its my feeling that if I am compromising my lap times in an effort to stay ahead, then I'm not exhibiting proper racing etiquette.

If you have saved a replay from a recent race where you had a faster driver behind you, take a look at the replay from that drivers view, and see if it seems that you (in the car ahead) are driving fairly or if you are blocking inconsiderately.:grumpy:

Just my 2 cents!
GTsail
 
From my perspective, let them work for it as long as you are being clean, you can still take a defensive position and take the insides as long as you're not pushing them off the track or intentionally cutting them off, that's the point of racing not to just let them by if they are close to your speed because that teaches you how to race with others and can be a lot of fun. If they are a lot faster I'd let them go and try and follow them to improve your speed.

Block me once shame on me, block me twice shame on you.
 
I think I'm dwelling on their lap and overall times too much. It's all well and good being 1 or 2 seconds quicker a lap but it means nothing if they're behind me, running at my pace. It only equals a few tenths here and there in a few corners so I'm not actually that much slower.

Also, I only change line once when I'm defending and if I do cause an incident, I'll yield the position. I don't make too many mistakes as I err on the side of caution when I'm racing though.

Nagging the missus for the TV now. I want to try out my new racing philosophy.:lol:

Thanks for your viewpoints.👍
 
Here are some personal opinions. I would rather lose a race by 0.02sec than win by 20sec. And it doesn't matter if we are talking 1st or last place either. Losing by a small margin means you had one really good race with someone else.

What everyone forgets is we are not playing for money or world championships but racing to have some good fun.

So basic guidelines are, drive clean, leave room and respect the other driver(s) and you will have a great race.

Also in your example about someone behind that is quicker, follow what I just said and then stick to his tail. He is quicker for a reason, find out why. And if he makes a mistake you will beat him anyway.

Enjoy your racing and if you are any good you will win.

We have all learned more by being beaten than we ever did by winning ;-)
 
@kilesa4568 - What to do all depends on the situation, & you'll need to use some common sense. For instance;


if you have a good position & it's the last lap or so, defend your place fairly & you'll win the battle over the faster driver.

If however it's early on in the race & battling with the faster driver would slow you both up to the point where the drivers behind you would catch up & you'd lose more positions, then let the faster driver through & try & stay with him.

Sometimes you're in P2 with a faster driver in front, & a faster driver behind. You can't catch the faster driver ahead with your own natural pace. So, let the faster driver behind through, & stay with him until you both catch the faster driver in front. Then let them battle it out, & maybe they'll slow each other up enough for you to take the win!


Racing is all about fairness, respect, & intelligence - using your clean tactics to outwit your opponents.

Have fun!


👍
 
I think I'm dwelling on their lap and overall times too much. It's all well and good being 1 or 2 seconds quicker a lap but it means nothing if they're behind me, running at my pace. It only equals a few tenths here and there in a few corners so I'm not actually that much slower.

Also, I only change line once when I'm defending and if I do cause an incident, I'll yield the position.
I'm more or less the same :lol:
Like what the others said above, you have to sometimes compromise your times to defend your position. First, look at where they get their advantage from. Is it from their late braking? Fast corner entry? Fast exit? Fast acceleration? Fast top speed? Take those all into account. When I join an unfamiliar lobby and I joined while they're racing, first thing I do is watch them race. From there I can look at where they're good and where they're bad and I put extra effort into the skills I have that they lack (ie. They have fast corner entry? Ok, I'll take a later apex so I can have emphasis on my exit). Develop your own tactics (If you're a clean driver don't break the rules with these tactics though :lol:) so that it's unique to you and they won't be able to predict your moves. On another topic, I think that's why new people who randomly mash buttons in action games like Street Fighter are able to win against great players.
 
Here are some personal opinions. I would rather lose a race by 0.02sec than win by 20sec. And it doesn't matter if we are talking 1st or last place either. Losing by a small margin means you had one really good race with someone else.

What everyone forgets is we are not playing for money or world championships but racing to have some good fun.

So basic guidelines are, drive clean, leave room and respect the other driver(s) and you will have a great race.

Also in your example about someone behind that is quicker, follow what I just said and then stick to his tail. He is quicker for a reason, find out why. And if he makes a mistake you will beat him anyway.

Enjoy your racing and if you are any good you will win.

We have all learned more by being beaten than we ever did by winning ;-)

Other than the majority of rooms in quick match emulating the UFC last night, I had some intense races (5 hours of quick match last night:crazy:) against those quicker drivers and while I only won 1 out of 4 against them, I was usually less than a second behind on each. I even hit 6:53 (2:16.8 PB) on one of the races but they were too savvy to let me back through. Annoyingly, they barely made any mistakes and when they did, I was that busy concentrating on keeping up with them that I couldn't take advantage. Depressing seeing they didn't have any weak corners (I think they were wheel users listening to their throttle control) but at least I made them work for it. Satisfying seeing them take a defensive line when I'm threatening though.

@VBR

I should do that more. I'm starting to see pole position and my skill level with the GT3 cars as a disadvantage. If they're hounding me on the first lap, I'll still make them work for it but without necessarily being too defensive, and if they overtake, I'll use it to my benefit. Getting back through is seriously tricky though. I did sneak a couple of wins with the front 2 battling hard.

If I'm in front on the last lap, it's "elbows out" time.:D

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other dealing with these faster drivers but this thread's taught me to be a little less passive.👍
 
I say make your car as wide as a bus and defend your place. If they want to pass make him/her work for it.

As the great Murray Walker used to say "catching is one thing, passing is another"
 
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My elbows are out early in the race but I won't be unfair about it. If they can counter my one line change, they'll earn the pass. I'm not like the other tail wagglers in quick match.:p

Oshawa-Joe's got me thinking I need to step it up a bit if I want to improve so I'm looking for a club/league in my time zone. They're surprisingly few and far between in the UK and at the times I can do. My missus hogs the TV up to 10pm but I'm still looking. I'm sure there's one somewhere. It doesn't have to be serious but it has to be clean and have strict rules.
...or I could set up my own...💡 I've got a stable 100/6Mb/s connection and a few Europeans on my friends list who're similarly paced or quicker. Not ideal but it would do till I find something better.

Edit: When I say it doesn't have to be serious but still be strict, I know accidents happen.
 
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Get them to sign a McLaren contract...

Try to avoid looking back, glancing in the mirrors too often - You can't split your attention between driving fast and rubber necking in the mirrors. Make sure you are nailing your corners.

Try to remember that when you are ahead you will be distracting the chasers forward view once they get close. The advantage of chasing down the dot in the distance gets flipped on its head when that same object is making you trip over your own feet as your eyes are no longer on the track ahead but the dancing brake lights a few feet ahead of your nose.

Defending - This is interesting - If it is a friend then you can trust each other to give each other room - going side by side sharing the track is a ton of fun. It costs you lap time but after the race this will be the highlight.

They may be faster, but they need to learn how to craft an overtaking move, by capitulating you are stealing their fun and their chance to improve.

However if you are 2nd and not catching 1st then letting the hard charging 3rd place guy through could be the smart move, they will close in on the leader, they get into a squabble letting you reel them in and maybe pick up the pieces -
 
I don't really use the rear view as I use bumper cam. The mirror and blind spot indicators are more than enough for me.

As a quick update and a total of 1800 miles (mostly through quick match) on Spa, I've got down to the mid 6:54's (base time of 6:57) and carrying enough pace to make it really difficult for even the quickest drivers to overtake. They're usually good enough to find a way round me eventually but I'm making more of a race out of it now and even beat them a few times by pressuring them into a mistake.

I could go quicker if I used a manual gearbox but at least I'm holding my own now. No more easy passes.👍
 
I'd say defend yourself aggressively if and only if the other person is being a dirty driver. Otherwise, make him earn his spot.
 
I do now. Fair but firm.

When it comes to the dirtier drivers though, I still give them a wide berth. Fighting fire with fire is too big a risk on getting a penalty myself. Some of them give me room when they know they can trust me (regulars in there already trust me) and often change for the better. Putting one over the dirtiest drivers often makes them worse for yourself and others so it's just not worth it. Much better to embarrass them with a slick pass.
 
Even faster drivers differ. Some are fast with no patience. They'll crash you and possible themselves.

A good faster driver will pick his spot and, as mentioned, you won't be able to cleanly prevent the pass.
 
Nothing I can do about a driver who doesn't care how they pass, other than stick to my line and grin into the rear view mirror if they get a warranted penalty. Forewarned is forearmed for their next attempt and they'll have to risk another penalty if they try a bad move again.

Not really relevant to the thread but is there a difference between using the stick over the wheel through Eau Rouge? I want to go on to the heavier SLS and GTR for their torque levels but not once have I found a fast line through Eau Rouge with them. I can't get them turned enough at the same speed as I see on the replays and it's driving me mad.
 
Not really relevant to the thread but is there a difference between using the stick over the wheel through Eau Rouge? I want to go on to the heavier SLS and GTR for their torque levels but not once have I found a fast line through Eau Rouge with them. I can't get them turned enough at the same speed as I see on the replays and it's driving me mad.
Yes, there is a difference.
This thread was for one specific event but it's somewhere that you can read about it.
 
Thanks for that. Interesting (and frustrating) read.👍

I can stop the experimenting trying to get those cars through now.
 
Never surrender your position without a fair fight:mad:. If you move over and let faster drivers through you aren't really racing, you're just hotlapping. Defend your position fairly and force the faster driver to use his corner exit advantage to gain a good draft and get by you legally and fairly.

When you do eventually get passed, follow as close as you can and try to learn what the faster driver is doing differently.
 
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