How to: No ABS

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Kubalivre

Kubalivre

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Not a tutorial, but a question. Input from experienced drivers and gamers alike needed.

Some of you may have seen me voice my opinions in these forums regarding the aids. I'm chiefly agains said purists, those who even laughed at a world champion for using TCS. I'll often use TCS if I know/suspect the car has TCS, and the same goes for ABS.

However, I have fallen to an argument of the sensible ones of that pack: it makes for a good challenge, or for an exciting drive. I can handle zero TCS fine, but ABS, not so much. Any more than a quarter of braking and the tyres lock up. In powerful cars, sometimes I don't even see it coming and I've been able to somehow loose control on a straight line! :dunce:

That being said, knock some knowledge into me. I'd like to know how to brake most effectively without ABS and any mechanics of the system that will help me better understand the technique, both in real life and in game situations.
 
Well proper drivers and especially racing drivers will never use TC on a race track, so there's a reason to laugh. As for ABS, i'm no expert, but the fact that you can put it on cars that are 30, 40 years old, makes me think that's it not quite working like a real abs but more like a driving aid...

As for driving without it, play with brake bias a bit and see what it suits you. I found 3:1 works great for mid powered cars, like 370z, also you can try 4:2, 2:1 etc.. as long as there's more on the front brakes..
 
Kubalivre
Not a tutorial, but a question. Input from experienced drivers and gamers alike needed.

Some of you may have seen me voice my opinions in these forums regarding the aids. I'm chiefly agains said purists, those who even laughed at a world champion for using TCS. I'll often use TCS if I know/suspect the car has TCS, and the same goes for ABS.

However, I have fallen to an argument of the sensible ones of that pack: it makes for a good challenge, or for an exciting drive. I can handle zero TCS fine, but ABS, not so much. Any more than a quarter of braking and the tyres lock up. In powerful cars, sometimes I don't even see it coming and I've been able to somehow loose control on a straight line! :dunce:

That being said, knock some knowledge into me. I'd like to know how to brake most effectively without ABS and any mechanics of the system that will help me better understand the technique, both in real life and in game situations.
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reviews have mentioned this problem with logitech wheels with ABS set to zero - lockup the wheels when you barely touch the brake pedal. I noticed it to with my logitech DFP so I have to turn on ABS to prevent lockups at the first hint of brake
I will have to muck around with brake bias setting as mentioned above. that may fix my problem with brake lockups.

someone pedal calibration before starting a race. Does this really work for logitech pedals? I will have to try itout later tonight.
 
The reason even the hardcore guys still use ABS on 1 is because of the hardware. For ex: G25 and G27 brake pedal doesn't simulate the way real brake operate (distance travel instead of pressure applied). You need a load cell (hydraulic) brake pedal for proper brake, then you can turn ABS off too.
 
Boris Lozac
Well proper drivers and especially racing drivers will never use TC on a race track, so there's a reason to laugh. As for ABS, i'm no expert, but the fact that you can put it on cars that are 30, 40 years old, makes me think that's it not quite working like a real abs but more like a driving aid...

As for driving without it, play with brake bias a bit and see what it suits you. I found 3:1 works great for mid powered cars, like 370z, also you can try 4:2, 2:1 etc.. as long as there's more on the front brakes..
Click to expand...

Up until they brought in the standard ecu in 2008 F1 used traction control, they also used systems to sense the rear wheels locking and open the throttle as a form of abs although that didn't help the front from locking.
 
Boris Lozac
Well proper drivers and especially racing drivers will never use TC on a race track, so there's a reason to laugh.
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What makes you say that with such surety?

This quote refers to a Peugeot team racing at Le Mans:

The 908 HDi FAP, which will make its third start at Le Mans this year, has been modified to overcome the shortcomings that showed up in last year’s race. Modifications include an optimised traction control system, moves to stop the radiators from getting choked up and improvements to the wheel fitments that should help the mechanics during pit stops.

Can you see a certain term in there?

A quick web search on "2010 FIA GT3 Presentation" will likewise bring results showing that traction control is very much in evidence.

When horse-power rises to a certain level, there is no shame at all in using some TCS to deal with the odd over-enthusiastic stomp on the loud pedal :D.
 
Well i meant more on the street legal cars :) Simulations will always be limited and tons easier to drive then real cars, so there's no need to make them even more easier with some 'general' driving aids that work the same in 69 Camaro and 2010 LFA. The fact that you can put them on the old cars is really killing the immersion and plausability of them..
 
Ah, I understand 👍. Aye, I agree, TCS on the lower HP 'normal world' type cars is generally un-necessary and, once you know how to modulate inputs a bit, can actually make cars go slower rather than helping :).
 
It is more a hardware problem than a game problem, Logitech pedals are not calibrated very well

Boris Lozac
Yes, you have to calibrate pedals each time you start GT5, just stomp on them when you're on the track few times.
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Does that really work? Stomping pedals on track does increase the way of pedals?
 
I made a thread about this a few days ago and some good information was brought up and discussed. Have a search and you might find some good information that will help you regarding brake pressures and using them to set a brake bias.

essentially, the brakes are rubbish without ABS because the brake pressure is too high in most cars and the bias is 50/50, which is terrible.

A few easy and quick adjustments and the brakes become much more manageable and your satisfaction will go way up. :)
 
I would also recommend especially those who warranty has run out on their G25/27 wheels to buy the cheap nixim brake mod. (of course you could make your own mod) It's the next best thing to a load cell. You still have to push the brake all the way down once for each time loading up GT5 right before a race.
 
Big Ron
Does that really work? Stomping pedals on track does increase the way of pedals?
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Well test it, start a race or a time trial without touching your pedals at all, at the first braking you will lock your wheels because even though you just touched it, it will show as if you pressed it all the way down. So just press them all the way down 2 times before going anywhere, just to make sure and prevent that.
 
Boris Lozac
Well test it, start a race or a time trial without touching your pedals at all, at the first braking you will lock your wheels because even though you just touched it, it will show as if you pressed it all the way down. So just press them all the way down 2 times before going anywhere, just to make sure and prevent that.
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Do you have to calibrate the first time you get on the track?

I assume you can recalibrate them later?
 
I've never done this calibration and it's seemed fine for me, does it calibrate after you have braked the first time or have I just gotten used to it being wrong?
 
Ecchi-BANZAII!!
Lower the breaking force.
It's stock 5/5.
Lower it to 3/2 or even lower depending on the car weight.
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That helps a lot, although I don't lower it quite that much. Also putting more force on the front brakes helps to keep the car stable.

Other than that, you have to be smooth and brake earlier and modulate more than with ABS. Practice with a lower-powered, RWD car first, like the MX-5, and you should be able to move up.
 
Boris Lozac
Well proper drivers and especially racing drivers will never use TC on a race track, so there's a reason to laugh. As for ABS, i'm no expert, but the fact that you can put it on cars that are 30, 40 years old, makes me think that's it not quite working like a real abs but more like a driving aid...

As for driving without it, play with brake bias a bit and see what it suits you. I found 3:1 works great for mid powered cars, like 370z, also you can try 4:2, 2:1 etc.. as long as there's more on the front brakes..
Click to expand...

What..? Formula One drivers used TC till it was banned.

ABS comes in handy because without a proper brake pedal(using hydraulic pressure) it is impossible to accurately feel how much brake pressure you are applying.
 
TC ban was lifted from many motor sports becouse it was impossible to enforce. With standard ecu TC ban is coming back though. 2010 FIA GT has TC banned for example. It was banned from Le Mans at some times so i'm bit confused why the new diesel prototypes have it... To compensate the stronger torque?
 
In real cars with adjustable brake bias (usually race cars I guess), put more in the front and brake too hard, the front will lock up and you'll go straight and won't be able to turn. Put more in the rear, however, and brake too hard, the back end will come around. Same thing happens in GT5. Five in the front and 5 in the rear, you would think it'd be balance but it's still enough to spin you out. So, as everyone mentioned here, 3/2, 5/3 whatever it be, it'll be better. I don't see that ABS is necessary when you have the brake bias set up :)

My RM Corvette ZR-1 would always spin out at 5/5 especially at the Ring. So, I had to divert to ABS=1. It bothered my inner racer ego. Then, I read about the brake bias. I changed it to 8/6 (really powerful car with a lot of torque so I had to beef the bias up a bit) and no more spinning out. Without ABS, by the way. When I do spin out, it's because I got in the grass -_-

EDIT: Though, when I brake TOO hard I do spin out but that's just because of no ABS.
 
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Sohvakettu
TC ban was lifted from many motor sports becouse it was impossible to enforce. With standard ecu TC ban is coming back though. 2010 FIA GT has TC banned for example. It was banned from Le Mans at some times so i'm bit confused why the new diesel prototypes have it... To compensate the stronger torque?
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TCS has been allowed at Le Mans for sometime now too....Not just the prototypes but GT cars as well...
 
Putting a squash ball or half one under the brake pedal will help a lot. Gives you tons of extra feedback and actually feels like a real brake pedal! 👍

And also lower the brake balance 3:1 is good for street cars on less grippy tyres. 4:2 to 5:3 for race cars on race tyres
 
hey guys, i was practicing with the GT-R GT500 without ABS(TCS also off), the brakes do lock up on you if you suddenly mash on it. but after a while i was getting a little use to it , but i have to be too gentle especially when practicing on the GreenHll (Nurburgring), can some tell me the best break force setting that I can change it to?.. I drive with my old Logitech GT Force wheel, i wanna get the G2 but that price is too high here in Japan
 
I had a 2-player split screen race with my missus last night. She chose a Subaru Impreza, I chose an Evo GSR. To even things out I switched all driving aids off including ABS (that I universally have set to 1 when playing GT Life). She won because every time I so much as breathed on the brakes = locked wheels, spinning out, crashing, girlfriend giggling as she sauntered off into the distance :(

How embarrassing.

I fall into the same category as the OP. I'm now going to apply the advice on this thread.
 
sukerkin
Ah, I understand 👍. Aye, I agree, TCS on the lower HP 'normal world' type cars is generally un-necessary and, once you know how to modulate inputs a bit, can actually make cars go slower rather than helping :).
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The assists... TCS especially, will always result in a slower time from a consistant driver. This is because it is literally preventing you from accelerating. The problem lies in the fact that when most people turn them off, they dont allow time to get acclimated to the changes. They only see that thy are going slower and do not realize you need to adjust your driving style to reap the benefits of not using assists.
 
Usually not being up for a hard time in a racing game I go with some of the aids (well ABS and TCM). Even with TCM I have to feather the throttle occasionally (I use a DS3).

I have tried a certain other non-PS3 racing game with no assists (and controller) and after a little practice was able to get a reasonable cadence braking thing going. I suspect this would actually be easier to achieve with a controller than a Wheel set up. I have yet to summon the courage to try the same thing in GT5.
 
Although i find great enjoyment out of using no assists at all, i believe using ABS 1 is slightly quicker in most situations. Nowhere near as much fun though :sly:
 

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