Human AI in gt4??

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Cobras article is so unbelievably biased, basically it boils down to this:

Whenever the Xbox is better than the comparison on PS2, they say uhhhh well you can program it in software on the PS2. But the point is that doing special graphics effects etc... on hardware is faster simply because the proccessor doesn't have to process it therefore freeing up more cpu time & allowing it to be used for other things.

Oh I guess I don't need my Radeon 9800, I'll just run all my games in software. Mmmm, pixels! & PS2 style 'jaggies'! :odd: Of course it means all my games have slowdown & the AI & view distance is virtually nothing but because its like a PS2 it gets good game performance!!1
 
Ofcourse :) . And Cobra, less of the flaming, you called plenty of people idiots in this forum alone, it will get you banned. I don't want you banned, you add plenty of laughter into my day:lol:.
 
Cobra puts up a good debate, but for him to call everyone an idiot just because they dont agree to him just lowers down the quality of your comments and reasons... instead of taking it liek a man and just saying, "well look I have to disagree, and heres why...' now that a mature way of debating and getting your point across.. NOT like "listen you idiot its like this and thats it" thats just a very childish way of putting it, and then you might sit there and wonder why people laugh at you and not take you seriously because you cant get your point across in a mature fashion... Look at live4speed, atleast hes mature about his posts and not calling you an idiot.. so Cobra maybe the next time you post you should make yourself look less like a fool and more like a mature person who knows how to talk and get his point across better...
 
I think it is silly to sit here and have an all-out console war between the Xbox and PS2. The Xbox HAS to be superior from a technical standpoint: It is much newer than the PS2! Computer technology quadruples every year, so to say that a system more than 1 year older than another is more powerful is ridiculous. Now, that having been said, this takes absolutely nothing away from the brilliance of the PS2. The EE is indeed a very powerful and sophisticated processor (jeez, just look back one generation to the N64 and PS1!!!). I think it is incredible how spoiled all of these new consoles has made us. To hear some of you describe it, you'd think the PS2 was the worst console ever made! Why? Because there are some anti-aliasing issues? Because of a few jaggies? Get real! We are living in a time of unprecedented gaming power. Just think back to the first time you ever saw a PS2 game running. I know I was astonished when I first saw Madden 2001 for PS2. The jump from the last-gen systems was extraordinary. Now everybody is so jaded about these truly great consoles. It's pretty sad. At any rate, the PS3 is coming and I can promise that we will all be in awe of Sony once again. The new "cell" processors are going to be revolutionary (and will undoubtedly surpass any of today's highest performance PC's).

Oh, and if you really want to settle which console is the best OVERALL, I suggest you look at sales (as that is really what matters to the console makers themselves: the bottom line).

PS2-19,432,000 units sold in North America
Xbox-6,178,000 units sold in North America

Well, I guess the people have spoken........with their wallets! ;)
 
I agree, I need to stop flaming.
Anyway
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You all know which is which by the color.
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The Emotion Engine is a monster. Nuff said...

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The N'Vidia is the most powerful GPU in the market as far as "rare" polygons and AA. Plus, it's a hella alot easier to program for.

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X-Box games need to look smooth. Let's turn on the AA for smooth textures and lines... Oh my God, the polygon count dropped hella. Oh well, at least the games look smooth though.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid68/p7b505c451a5650a7fb5a2c0fb77e921b/fbbcfaaf.jpg
The ultimate MAX of in-game graphics... If it were to happen.

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X-Box saves ALOT of bandwidths compared to the others. But.... It seems that Gamecube and PS2 still has plenty of bandwidths.

Results:
Divide the X-box total bandwiths by 4. I'm on a guessing spree here, but I think Halo 2 is as good as it gets or just about. But in spite of that, X-Box will almost always be the smoother system as far as clarity goes though. That means X-Box is better than PS2 when it comes to getting rid of jaggies, becuase X has superior AA.

PS2 will almost always suffer from jaggies, but look on the bright side, the PS2 can handle "Software Mode" without cuasing so much of a slowdown. The X-Box can not achieve software mode becuase the Pentium can not handle it without a performance hit. (ie: lowering framerates, A.I, and all the other bad stuff). Also, notice that in the end PS2 has the higher poly count. That means it can make graphics closer to realism Silent Hill 3 for example. And people say that PS2 can't bump-map.

Gamecube is weaker than X-Box as far as polygons and AA count, but Gamecube has the fastest RAM on the market, not to mention; Alot of bandwidth to spare just as the PS2. Also... Gamecube's Flipper LSI is a Sound/Graphics processor in one with dedicated 15MB of texture storage. This means that technically, Gamecubes GPU is the most powerful becuase it can handle two completely different tasks.

X-Box has has the most powerful GPU
Gamecube has the most powerful RAM
PS2 has the most powerful CPU
 
The ps2 can do FSOSA. It's another saying for full screen anti-aliasing. Sony didnt release the documentation of how to achieve it on the PS2 until fall 2002. This can be done, but there's one prob,devs are only human. The ps2 indeed is still ahead of the xb in tech. There are alot of game that look better than ps2 game on the xb but ofc that's opinion but again, what about performance? Live you can copy and paste all that info you want, I still will think different.
 
My favorite word; realism. I'm yet to see a realistic looking xb game that's on par with gt3's qaulity or silenthill3's.
 
Never said the PS2 was a bad console as far as games go, but technologically the Xbox is more powerful.

For instance I was just playing Midtown Madness 3 & no way in hell would that run on a PS2 with the same levels of graphics & smooth framerate.

Sega GT 2002 is good and has some better effects & less jaggies than GT3, but, overall GT3 does look more realistic.

If only there was a company like PD for the other 2 consoles, to truely push them to the limits like they've done with the PS2.

Oh and maxmium number of 'untextured' polygons is a graph in the PS2's favour in that CPUs can easily throw out a load of numbers which can create polygons. Whereas texturing takes a lot more graphical power something the Xbox has a lot more of.(Along with RAM, something the PS2 has little of). Therefore as I've seen before the PS2 falls massively behind in textured polygons. Hence although I prefer the style of GT4, theres far more polygons in PGR2.

AA does require alot of graphical power, by not having any AA in most games the PS2, although jaggy doesn't have to use any power for AA so it can use the power for other things. Like fancy reflections in GT3.
 
You see, everyone agrees that the games on the PS2 are better, like you said, they are. But a good game doesn't make the console better, it makes the console sell really well.

It's like GT4P and PGR2, PGR2 has a much higher polygon count than GT4P, it looks smoother as well, the cars look great, but GT4 will be better, the only reason I won't say GT4P is better is because of it's lack of content compared to PGR2, although the cars and tracks are better, GT4P has 5 tracks to the 100+ in PGR2 anmd 100+ cars. So PGR2 has a higher polygon count, a higher resolution, more textures, and no jaggies.

he fps is fine at 30fps, you don't notice. GT4P unfortunately has slowdown as well, it's 60fps alot of the time but it can drop to 20fps or less, and graphics wise, regardless of which you think looks better, PGR2 has more.

You can't say a game has worse graphics because it's not realistic, take Halo 2, it doesn't look all too real, but the graphics are ace. All that matters is that GT4 will be a great game, it doesn't have to have better graphics than RS2 whih will be out next year on X-Box or have as good lighting as Doom 3, lets face it, no aspect of GT4's graphics will match up to Doom 3's.

And I'm glad to see your going to stop flaming
 
Still live, everything you have said about graphics is just opinion. Now I think gt4 has the best graphics ever. I don't care if doom3 has this and that, gt4 is way more impressive. I like realistic graphics, that's why I think gt4 kills pgr2 and rsc2 in graphics, that's why I think killzone kills halo2 in graphics. It's all about what graphics style a person favors. It looks like the ps2 is up on realistic graphics like mgs3, sh3, gt4, killzone, etc while xb games just don't look right when they try to look realistic. PGR2 doesn't have a realistic bone in it graphics imo, same for rsc2. A few jaggies never hurt anyone :lol:
But you can disagree with me, most likely you will anyway but I didn't get into all the hype of the xb, I don't think it's all that more powerful than the ps2.
If you truly read up on the ps2 from relieable sources you'll see the ps2 is actually a Ferrari F50 with maxed HP, just doesn't have tires, no tires=no dev has been able to really show what the ps2 can do. In theory, the ps2 will have better graphics than the xb if their life cycles were longer.
 
We will truly see which console is more powerful when the devs of killzone makes the 3rd person shooter for the xb and ps2, that dev has the keys to the ps2's true power and we will see which game looks better.
 
Cobra id have to agree if GT4 didnt have jaggies id think it would look better then PGR2 IMO of course.. But I disagree about the realism.. yes the game it awesome great graphics and such but its in no way realistic (graphics wise) i could take TXR0 and say its realistic.. the models are exact but its no way realistic, if you put a GT4 car next to the real thing, the GT4 car would stand out more but its not realistic, the physics are great and all and like I said and like many others its an awesome game but its not realistic, And yet im happy the graphics are super real bacause whn I play a game I want to get away from the real world and not just go play a racing game that looks like a real car I want to have great models but a very fun game... Again to me if GT4 didnt have the jaggies it would look very good and "realistic" better than an xbox game but reality is it has jaggies and thats a down side to the PS2, and an up side to xbox which doesnt have much Jaggies... Since the PS2 has a huge library of games its deff a great favor to the PS2 and thats why people buy so many PS2's is because of its library but if you gave it a few more year the Xbox would start to come up and might tie or beat the PS2.. I dont care which system people have, im happy with my PS2, and its not like I dont like the xbox I just dont feel like wasting money for it really and when the PS3 comes out i'll proably go with that.. But anyways Im like many people in the world who have bought a PS2 or Xbox or GC and I just dont pay attention to the Specs or a gaming system and just bought one for the fun of it.. (computers are obviously a diffrent story) It doesnt matter which system is best, its how well the gaming companies make there games.. and of course its how much they push each system to the limit, because the system defines the boundries you could work in and the programers work within those boundries.. if a game has bad graphics or gameplay its not because the system is "inferior" or "not has powerful" its just the gaming company didnt do the best they could or used all power thats there for them to use.. take GT4, KY said hes pushing the PS2 to the limits, and we all know he pushed more for grasphics.. if he didnt push so much or if the graphics were a less than gt3 maybe he could add more, but just because he pushed the PS2 to the limit doesnt mean some other game like Madden or SOCOM or whatever cant have better graphics its just there proably not useing the max power thats avalible to them..Theres many factors such has how you make something that takes up less memory but a higher poly count or better textures, such has game engines... You judge on how well each system is, true its a good factor but like I said if someone like EA, or Sega, or PD made a bad game its not the PS2's fault its the gaming publisher who didnt use the power or the system effieciently.....
 
After reading this discusion I get the impression that i'ts kind of like a programable engine management system,ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON PROGRAMING IT,am i right?
 
Originally posted by cobragt
I agree, I need to stop flaming.
Anyway... <snip>
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Where does that come from? I'd like to read the article, rather than just look at graphs. It's just I don't trust graphs unless I know the methodology behind them.

Cobra puts up a good debate
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not really. As I mentioned earlier, we've been through this all before, he's even posted that article before and had it argued over:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forumshowthread.php?s=&threadid=29264

We argue, debunk and it shows its head again :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by cobragt
Still live, everything you have said about graphics is just opinion.
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Originally posted by Live4speed
It's like GT4P and PGR2, PGR2 has a much higher polygon count than GT4P, it looks smoother as well, the cars look great, but GT4 will be better, the only reason I won't say GT4P is better is because of it's lack of content compared to PGR2, although the cars and tracks are better, GT4P has 5 tracks to the 100+ in PGR2 anmd 100+ cars. So PGR2 has a higher polygon count, a higher resolution, more textures, and no jaggies.
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Thats not an opinion.
 
PGR2 has a hell of a lot more polies on screen than GT:P, also the classic Ferraris at times have fantastic reflections that nearly look perfect and alot better than GT's, but for some reason this doesn't happen with all cars in all parts of the circuits.

The problem with PGR2's graphics is consistancy(or lack of), something the GT series has always been great at.

And imo of course, GT has the better handling, although PGR2 is a very good arcade racer. But GT4 with full career mode, lotsa tracks, customisation, lotsa cars yes please!
 
Treu with all that... I remember seeing a picture of PGR2 and the road and building looked so real I really did think it was a real building and road, but only the car kind of looked out of place, although screen shots are not the best method of showing a games graphics unlike a video or whatever but it did look great though, But too me the graphics in GT3 are enough, there great models and graphics, but the backgorunds deff needed a face lift and thats what good about GT4 is redoing the scenery, if they just kept the gt3 cars and such and just redid the backgrounds and just added new feature, more cars etc.. it would be a great game and thats all I need... I dont need to look at a real car driving around, if I did id just stand out side and cheer for the people you drive past my house :lol:
 
Hope you are kidding. I have played pgr2 and it looks no where as realistic as gt4p, I have played gt4p also. I actually laughed at pgr2, I thought the car models were cel-shaded and the track designs are jokes. That's a sad game trying to look realistic :lol: GT4P kills that in realism for sure and anyother racer period

If you say pgr2 looks more realistic than gt4p, you might as well say mario sunshine looks more realistic and gt4p has already got the title of best looking racer by ign. :rolleyes:
 
Go show a gt4 track vs real life track comparsion to a person who hasn't seen or heard of gt4 and they will be too impressed, can you compare pgr2 to reality? Naw, the game is too colorful and too clean for reality. I just laugh at the thought of pgr2 looking real, that's a wonderful joke guys :lol:
 
PGR2 has better graphics than GT4P, I've played both extensivley and GT4P isn't much different to GT3. How real the cars look is a different matter, a cartoon game can have better graphics than a a game trying to look realistic. PGR2 has more of everything in terms of graphics, it has more polygons in the cars and scenery, it runs at a higher resolution, it has more effects. And your the only person who thinks PGR2 looks bad, it looks good, very good, and how the hell can you say it looks almost cel shaded. The cars in GT4P are more accuratley moddeledm, but the cars in PGR2 are damn well close, and sharper, and made of more poly's (alot mopre).
 
To CobraGT

1.Final Fantasy X on some parts looked way better than any part of GT3 or GT4:P.

2.GT3 and GT4:P do look better than any X-Box game, but thats because no X-Box game produced has ever been made to the max.

3.The X-Box is a more powerful console, no doubt about it, but i still prefer PS2's because of the range of good game titles on the PS2.

Conclusion: If the X-Box was released the same time as the PS2 and had the same games, i would of definately bought the more powerful X-Box.
 
Originally posted by cobragt
Go show a gt4 track vs real life track comparsion to a person who hasn't seen or heard of gt4 and they will be too impressed, can you compare pgr2 to reality? Naw, the game is too colorful and too clean for reality. I just laugh at the thought of pgr2 looking real, that's a wonderful joke guys :lol:
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Why don't you see them a decent size, they look different then. You make any pictures small they look better than they really are.
 
I don't care how many polys live, dlo you really think I care about that? I'm judging what my eyes show me and to say pgr2 has better models is crazy imo. When I first saw it I laughed and thought it was cel-shaded no lie and still, when I get a first glance at it I think it's cel-shaded. The game has sad car models, I have played that game and I laughed at its graphics. Why was haze in the back grounds? That looked bad and lifeliess like everyone has siad about that game. PGR2 can have better graphics all it wants but gt4p kills so bad it's not funny in the realistic look period
 
Which ones from GT4.? I wonder.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
PGR2 has better graphics than GT4P, I've played both extensivley and GT4P isn't much different to GT3. How real the cars look is a different matter, a cartoon game can have better graphics than a a game trying to look realistic. PGR2 has more of everything in terms of graphics, it has more polygons in the cars and scenery, it runs at a higher resolution, it has more effects. And your the only person who thinks PGR2 looks bad, it looks good, very good, and how the hell can you say it looks almost cel shaded. The cars in GT4P are more accuratley moddeledm, but the cars in PGR2 are damn well close, and sharper, and made of more poly's (alot mopre).
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well thats just cuz the xbox is much more powerful than the ps2, im sure that if microsoft made pgr2 for ps2 it would look much less impressive, and if gt3 ran on the xbox would look much better than pgr2.
 
Originally posted by cobragt
I don't care how many polys live, dlo you really think I care about that? I'm judging what my eyes show me and to say pgr2 has better models is crazy imo. When I first saw it I laughed and thought it was cel-shaded no lie and still, when I get a first glance at it I think it's cel-shaded. The game has sad car models, I have played that game and I laughed at its graphics. Why was haze in the back grounds? That looked bad and lifeliess like everyone has siad about that game. PGR2 can have better graphics all it wants but gt4p kills so bad it's not funny in the realistic look period
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I'm not trying to say PGR2 has better car models, but it has better graphics, why can't you listen (read) what I'm saying, GT4 has better car models, but everything in PGR2 is at a higher resolution with more poly's and sharper. Read my posts properley before replying.
 
Are you kidding me? The xb is being maxed out more than the ps2. The xb will be maxed before the ps2. Devs are still untapping the ps2, games on the ps2 are looking better and better, can't say the same for the xb but that's my opinion.
 
I know what you are saying live but are you reading what I'm sayng. GT4P looks better than pgr2 and anyother racer.
 
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