I feel GT6 will be a disappointment.

[RedPartyhat]

From what I've seen in the recent videos/gameplays, I don't see anything special at all. Very little looks to be changed from GT5. "New tire/physics model, some new tracks." Those are things that can be corrected in a 3.0 update for GT5.

How about better A.I. and offline featues? GT5 A.I was a joke. It seems like they all drive like robots following each other in a train as opposed to actual human-like A.I. And when you overtake, it feels like a blue flag overtake as the A.I just check up and wave at you as you pass them. It's so stupid that I have to severly handicap my car, such as using sports hard tires when the A.I are using racing hards, just to get a decent challenge out of them. Kaz says he's overhauling the A.I. for GT6. I only hope that those certain Gameplay videos of GT6 I've watched aren't put it in the final product as they are driving exactly as they did in GT5. And whatever happened to the A-spec? They are all ridiculously easy. The 24-hrs of Le Mans is more of a punishment than a challenge. B-spec was even more boring. Some people find it somewhat entertaining but watching my A.I. trying to beat other A.I. while I have very little control sounds incredibly uninteresting. Same deal with the seasonal events. And as for the special events, sure some were fun and a lot more challenging, but it's still the same deal. Most of it were time trials and most of the races were pretty easy. And I doubt anyone on this planet will say that they found the Vettel challenges enjoyable. That was torture. Remember the GT4 special events? 34 different missions and each more interesting then the last. The 3-lap battle and the 1-lap magic missions at the end was the most fun and challenging stuff I've ever done. And the A.I. was a lot more responsive in GT4. It wasn't the best, but it was a ton better than in GT5.

Why is online only limited to 16 people? I get the obvious answer, "Oh, GT5 can't handle that many people in one room." But there are some older PS3 games that literally can host 256 people and usually with very little issue. "Because the room may lag too much if there are too many people." Well I normally don't have any issues in 16-player lobbies. Could adding a few more people be that bad? I think 32 would be an awesome number but can PD at least get 24? 20?? Would it be that difficult?

GT5 course creator awful. You'd never get a track the way you want it to look. And I get that PD didn't want to simply give people a pencil and let them draw it however they want, but could I get at least some influence on how my track is going to look? And what's with the annoying elevation changes? Sometimes, I get a good-looking track except it'll have this uphill blind-corner that I can't do a thing about. The shape of the track is already given to you, all you can really do is dictate how wide the road is and how sharp/complex the next turn is. That doesn't sound like a course creator to me.

And why won't PD including drag racing? There is a huge drag racing community out there and all they can do is enter Indy road course and drag race each other when the total time reaches a certain number. The Speed test feature came late but why can't there be a legit online drag racing feature (Forza has it)? And to add to that, why can't we have an option for multi-class racing? Or a WRC timed-style racing? Why can we only do standard racing?


I'll admit that GT5 did some things right. The seasonal time trials are enjoyable and challenging. The servers are usually reliable and lag only occurs if certain people have poor connections. And the physics are pretty realistic to begin with.

But if GT6 is only going to have "An updated physics, tire model, suspension model, engine sounds, and some new tracks," then I'm calling it right now, and I hope I'm wrong but, GT6 will be a disappointment.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

You aren't alone in this.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I want to ask OP. Did you by any means, read any of the interviews with Kaz? From Silverstone to E3?

 

[Imari]

Why is online only limited to 16 people? I get the obvious answer, "Oh, GT5 can't handle that many people in one room." But there are some older PS3 games that literally can host 256 people and usually with very little issue. "Because the room may lag too much if there are too many people." Well I normally don't have any issues in 16-player lobbies. Could adding a few more people be that bad? I think 32 would be an awesome number but can PD at least get 24? 20?? Would it be that difficult?

Firstly, there's a limit how many cars can be displayed graphically. GT5 already drops below 60fps with 16 cars on track. To add more they would have to reduce the quality of the graphics.

Secondly, having 256 people spread over a map in a shooter is a different thing to having 16 people racing wheel to wheel. From memory, MAG used central servers to host. GT5 uses either the host player's PS3 or is fully peer to peer, depending on how you set it up.

I suspect that with some work PD could make some sort of system that could serve however many players they needed, be that 20 or 24 or whatever. But the graphical issue means that they won't even try.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

I don't feel alone on this . I always think that it will be much more limited since it will be on PS3.

 

[Luminis]

You know, aside from the points the OP makes, I have to say that the GT section seems much more critical of the upcoming GT title than it did prior to GT5's release. That might just be me, but I do feel like I've stumbled across more (valid) concerns and criticism for GT6 in a few days than I expected. I'm not sure what to think of that.

After the game's announcement, I actually got my hopes up, that it'd rectify what I perceived as the most glaring flaws with GT5. Got my hopes up to get back into the franchise, you know. My hopes are waning again, though.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

I just feel that those flaws will not be looked at, such as customization, since that did not happen with GT5. GT5 was supposed to have a livery editor, something that has been asked since GT4! GT needs to tweak their strengths and work on their weaknesses.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

For me it will be a disappointment if it does not have leaderboards as that is the most glaring thing that was left out of 5. The new tracks, cars, features will all be gravy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I want to ask OP. Did you by any means, read any of the interviews with Kaz? From Silverstone to E3?

Those interviews are hardly something people should clamour to, especially if they were looking for any reason to look forward to GT6. They are highly vague and have no direction whatsoever to exactly what we can expect beyond DLC every month, and being on the GT5 core and new features that they always give away early on to build advertisement to get people hooked/hyped for the game.

If there is a comprehensive interview that gives more than what all the prior press releases have not, then people might look forward to the game. I myself am neutral at this point, I don't think it will be a complete disappointment, but I'm not ready to jump on the wagon like you and defend it. I much rather wait and pass full judgement.

 

[Clark]

If you don't like it don't buy it. Although going most people the OP will still buy the game.

Saying the game is going to be a disappointment or not isn't going to change anything, the game will be a GT game, which will be a lot better than any other racing game on console. (With the exception of forza which gets close in my opinion).

 

[Snaeper]

With the wait for GT5 still fresh in my mind, I feel that there hasn't been nearly enough information leaked at this time to make an accurate judgement about what GT6 will really be about. At this time before GT5's launch, we knew about huge features such as damage, WRC, NASCAR, day/night transitions and a number of smaller features.

With GT6, all we really know is a handful of tracks, a few physics models and adaptive tesselation will be in the game, with the promise of more to come.

I feel PD is playing it's hand close to it's chest.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

We should wait until we try the GT6 Demo - GTA on July 2nd

 

[MAidioPT]

Wait till the *FULL GAME* gets out ... not the demo.......... -.-

 

[Rob192005]

The amount of differing opinions that I've been hearing has me wondering what to think,when Kaz said that A-Spec (aka life mode) would still be the core of GT6,it had me pleased as I personally don't care for online play(just one mans opinion but hey),as long as they spruce up the standards(and it looks like the tessellation has seen to that),and bring back race mods for most cars,if not all of them,I for one will be happy.

 

[LeMansAid]

RedPartyhat, I am just amazed that you missed "The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread", the title makes me laugh every time I read it.

Seriously, some of you people come across as being so deeply hurt. It's very sad, but not in a sad way.

I have daddy issues, but I don't take it out on Gran Turismo.

 

[Imari]

You know, aside from the points the OP makes, I have to say that the GT section seems much more critical of the upcoming GT title than it did prior to GT5's release. That might just be me, but I do feel like I've stumbled across more (valid) concerns and criticism for GT6 in a few days than I expected. I'm not sure what to think of that.

I do agree. Pre-GT5, even with some of the weird information that came out, everyone was very hopeful for a game like GT4 with some of the cool things from GT5P mixed in. GT4 and GT5P were both very good for their time.

In that situation, I think everyone wanted to believe the best. That PD would come through and GT5 would be great.

On the other hand, GT5 was not at all what a lot of people were expecting. It's a decent enough game, but it's not what it was advertised to be, nor is it up to the standard of the games that came before it.

In this situation, a lot of people feel burned by the misinformation and outright lies that came prior to GT5s release. There's a non-trivial amount of people that are very reluctant to trust any information that PD puts out that isn't in playable form.

There was a discussion a while after GT5 came out about how it's reception would affect GT6. I think that GT6 will still sell well regardless, but the fact that this negative perception exists prior to release means that if they stuff this one up it really could damage the brand in a significant way.

GT6 needs to be over and above expectations.

Unfortunately, it's sort of looking a bit like more of the same. Physics are likely to be good, but given what other companies have been doing of late they're unlikely to be revolutionary. And it sounds like a lot of the same stuff that people have been criticising in GT for years still remains. We're yet to see any improvement in sounds or AI. We don't know how improved standard cars will be, if at all. Frame rate problems still exist in the demos. Statements from Kaz that he doesn't consider online important.

I hope they pull one out of the bag. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Those interviews are hardly something people should clamour to, especially if they were looking for any reason to look forward to GT6. They are highly vague and have no direction whatsoever to exactly what we can expect beyond DLC every month, and being on the GT5 core and new features that they always give away early on to build advertisement to get people hooked/hyped for the game.

If there is a comprehensive interview that gives more than what all the prior press releases have not, then people might look forward to the game. I myself am neutral at this point, I don't think it will be a complete disappointment, but I'm not ready to jump on the wagon like you and defend it. I much rather wait and pass full judgement.

LMS who said anything I was defending, I was just asking the OP a simple question if he read any of the interviews so he would know what's going on with GT6. Nothing more than that.....

 

[mr_serious]

As a long term GT fan I am sorry to say I think you are probably right. We can always hope though.

The trouble is Kaz & PD were just as enthused for the release of GT5 and made many promises, including better AI (A promise they have repeatedly made and failed to achieve since GT2).

There are some fundamental requirements for something to be called a race (whether you are racing snails, athletes, horses, or cars) the most important of which is equal opportunity.

In motor racing this is achieved by limiting the equipment (cars, tyres, fuel etc...) ensuring all entrants have equal opportunity.

Unfortunately the concept of fair racing has never translated very well to games, because people don't like too much of a challenge.

If you look at a real racing formula, there might be twenty entrants lets say. Only 1 of them can win. In the real world, unless you are a total superstar your ratio of entries to wins is always heavily skewed towards entries. Most people don't want to experience the reality of a win being something that happens infrequently & truly special.

Traditionally most racing games have solved this through two sets of mechanics.
1) Driving assists
2) Varying AI difficulty levels.

For GT5 we have to assume that either PD are incapable of designing a decent AI.

OR

Sony or PD decided that the way to go is to make every race really, really, really easy to win. On top of that they make the entry restrictions so loose that if you can't win every race, first time you can just take super tyres or a much better car and win by literally miles.

Since the traditional psychological reward for racing is missing (the actual fun of racing in close competition, making that pass right on the edge round the outside, getting traction earlier than your opponent on exit etc...) are missing they had to substitute it with artificial restrictions like levels & locked down content.

Since the AI is so poor they couldn't include qualifying, all seasonals are ridiculous start from the back & overtake the roadblocks events (what racing formula inspired this ridiculous arcade challenge?) and couldn't provide standing starts (otherwise the race is won by the first corner)

So you see, the problem is PD might be good at graphics and car physics (at least heuristic feel anyway, rather than mathematically accurate)

But for GT5 they were abysmal at simulating something that feels anything like racing.

At this point in time the vague positives from interviews about GT6 all seem to be qualified by "if we can" or "if we have time", notably when discussing customisation & AI improvements.

Given their history of missed deadlines & rather odd implementations of well understood functionality I don't feel confident that GT6 will be radically different to GT5.

I sincerely hope I am wrong. I would like nothing better than a really decent racing game on GT physics & graphics.

Please, please, please prove me wrong PD?

 

[Monatsende]

I`m waiting for "human drama" as Kaz announced to be more inside GT6. Then I´ll decide.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If you don't like it don't buy it. Although going most people the OP will still buy the game.

Saying the game is going to be a disappointment or not isn't going to change anything, the game will be a GT game, which will be a lot better than any other racing game on console. (With the exception of forza which gets close in my opinion).

I wouldn't jump to a conclusion like that, we still have PCars as well

LMS who said anything I was defending, I was just asking the OP a simple question if he read any of the interviews so he would know what's going on with GT6. Nothing more than that.....

And my point still stands, the interviews are very vague and only give you info on certain things that PD feel will make the average gamer that buys car games and the hardcore fans want the game. So why would it be any more informative than us talking about GT6? The demo will probably tell us more of the story than any interview we are going to get.

 

[TheCracker]

Disappointment has been a regular feature of Gran Turismo ever since GT3.

There's as much chance of some degree of disappointment featuring in GT6 as there is Trial Mountain appearing on the track list, 30+ similar Skylines in the car list or the Sunday Cup appearing as one of the early race championships.

Disappointment in Gran Turismo is both comforting and familiar.

 

[TokoTurismo]

And my point still stands, the interviews are very vague and only give you info on certain things that PD feel will make the average gamer that buys car games and the hardcore fans want the game. So why would it be any more informative than us talking about GT6? The demo will probably tell us more of the story than any interview we are going to get.

*Sigh* Very well. So be it. Not sure how the demo will say anything other than physics, GT Academy and such. >_>

 

[eran0004]

From what I've seen in the recent videos/gameplays, I don't see anything special at all. Very little looks to be changed from GT5. "New tire/physics model, some new tracks." Those are things that can be corrected in a 3.0 update for GT5.

What you see is basically the graphics. Apart from the new renderer and adaptive tessellation (which are quite big changes, to be honest), I think it's safe to assume that it will be more or less the same as GT5. Also, those videos were mostly in single player free run mode - that's just a small part of the game.

Regarding a 3.0 update, if you take a look at 2.0 it was tiny compared to the changes that has been announced with GT6 so far. Regarding GT5, it is also a bit of a monster, structurally. One of the main changes of GT6 is the new, lightweight structure which will make it a lot easier to work with for the developers and a lot easier to expand on. That change can't be implemented in an update - unless it's an update which effectively erases the entire game from your drive and installs a brand new.

And if that was possible, there's no way they would work three years for free so that 3.0 would have been something you'd have to pay for.

To summarize:
· What you've seen in the videos are only the tip of the iceberg.
· Some of the key changes with GT6 would be hard - if not impossible - to implement in an update.
· There ain't no such thing as a free lunch - you'd have to pay for it anyway.

How about better A.I. and offline featues? GT5 A.I was a joke. It seems like they all drive like robots following each other in a train as opposed to actual human-like A.I.

They are following the racing line. That's what most professional race drivers aim to do. If you look at a real race, the most part of it will be "following each other in a train", until someone makes a mistake or get close enough to attempt an overtake. Perhaps there could be more mistakes or more attempts to overtake, but apart from that I think it's good enough.

And whatever happened to the A-spec? They are all ridiculously easy.

They are. If you pick the best car and tune it to max. If you don't, then they are a bit more interesting. If they balanced all races after the best possible car, then you would need to have that specific car in order to have a fair chance of winning. If you want an easy race, pick the best car. If you want more of a challenge, pick another car.

The 24-hrs of Le Mans is more of a punishment than a challenge.

It is a punishment for picking an overpowered car. Pick another and you'll be fine.

B-spec was even more boring. Some people find it somewhat entertaining but watching my A.I. trying to beat other A.I. while I have very little control sounds incredibly uninteresting.

Then don't do it. All features are not meant for everyone.

Why is online only limited to 16 people? I get the obvious answer, "Oh, GT5 can't handle that many people in one room." But there are some older PS3 games that literally can host 256 people and usually with very little issue. "Because the room may lag too much if there are too many people." Well I normally don't have any issues in 16-player lobbies. Could adding a few more people be that bad? I think 32 would be an awesome number but can PD at least get 24? 20?? Would it be that difficult?

Why do you think? Because they picked 16 just for fun? If they could do more, they would.

GT5 course creator awful.

That is GT5. GT6 will have a new course creator but there hasn't been much info on that yet.

And why won't PD including drag racing?

Why should they? You just mentioned a bunch of other things that you think needs to be improved, and now you want them to add more things to the game so you get another half done feature to complain about??

And to add to that, why can't we have an option for multi-class racing? Or a WRC timed-style racing? Why can we only do standard racing?

Again.

If GT6 is only going to have "An updated physics, tire model, suspension model, engine sounds, and some new tracks," then I'm calling it right now, and I hope I'm wrong but, GT6 will be a disappointment.

Good thing it's not only going to have that. 👍

 

[Cosbuster]

I do agree. Pre-GT5, even with some of the weird information that came out, everyone was very hopeful for a game like GT4 with some of the cool things from GT5P mixed in. GT4 and GT5P were both very good for their time.

In that situation, I think everyone wanted to believe the best. That PD would come through and GT5 would be great.

On the other hand, GT5 was not at all what a lot of people were expecting. It's a decent enough game, but it's not what it was advertised to be, nor is it up to the standard of the games that came before it.

In this situation, a lot of people feel burned by the misinformation and outright lies that came prior to GT5s release. There's a non-trivial amount of people that are very reluctant to trust any information that PD puts out that isn't in playable form.

There was a discussion a while after GT5 came out about how it's reception would affect GT6. I think that GT6 will still sell well regardless, but the fact that this negative perception exists prior to release means that if they stuff this one up it really could damage the brand in a significant way.

GT6 needs to be over and above expectations.

Unfortunately, it's sort of looking a bit like more of the same. Physics are likely to be good, but given what other companies have been doing of late they're unlikely to be revolutionary. And it sounds like a lot of the same stuff that people have been criticising in GT for years still remains. We're yet to see any improvement in sounds or AI. We don't know how improved standard cars will be, if at all. Frame rate problems still exist in the demos. Statements from Kaz that he doesn't consider online important.

I hope they pull one out of the bag. I'm not holding my breath though.

Summed it up very well 👍.

 

[ch3ng]

They are. If you pick the best car and tune it to max. If you don't, then they are a bit more interesting. If they balanced all races after the best possible car, then you would need to have that specific car in order to have a fair chance of winning. If you want an easy race, pick the best car. If you want more of a challenge, pick another car.

Bad AI? I have a solution! Drive bad or use a underpowered car.There's a reason why people complain about AI and Sound. I don't think GT6 will be a dissapointment. They worked on the physics, loading times and added FIA GT3 cars. I'm looking forward to the demo.

Firstly, there's a limit how many cars can be displayed graphically. GT5 already drops below 60fps with 16 cars on track. To add more they would have to reduce the quality of the graphics.

Secondly, having 256 people spread over a map in a shooter is a different thing to having 16 people racing wheel to wheel. From memory, MAG used central servers to host. GT5 uses either the host player's PS3 or is fully peer to peer, depending on how you set it up.

I suspect that with some work PD could make some sort of system that could serve however many players they needed, be that 20 or 24 or whatever. But the graphical issue means that they won't even try.

This.

 

[Cosbuster]

They are following the racing line. That's what most professional race drivers aim to do. If you look at a real race, the most part of it will be "following each other in a train", until someone makes a mistake or get close enough to attempt an overtake. Perhaps there could be more mistakes or more attempts to overtake, but apart from that I think it's good enough.

How about braking at the exit of a corner when one is supposed to accelerate, changing gear 5 times during a corner and coming to a halt when being passed from the outside? This is not what a professional driver does and neither is it "good enough". It's a complete joke.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

*Sigh* Very well. So be it. Not sure how the demo will say anything other than physics, GT Academy and such. >_>

Are you saying that you don't think the demo will be somewhat like a prologue? IF it is, then it will yield more than physics if we see the features in the demo on the final game, is another story. Not sure why you think the physics engine and GTA are the only thing to be shown, it would be a bad marketing ploy to not show more to ensure that demo players become game buyers...

 

[Cosbuster]

Are you saying that you don't think the demo will be somewhat like a prologue?

The "demo" = GT Academy 2013.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Are you saying that you don't think the demo will be somewhat like a prologue? IF it is, then it will yield more than physics if we see the features in the demo on the final game, is another story. Not sure why you think the physics engine and GTA are the only thing to be shown, it would be a bad marketing ploy to not show more to ensure that demo players become game buyers...

What I meant by that is the demo is basically a GT Academy demo, which could showcase the new physics (which I'm excited for by the way). Not sure what you're thinking, you mean the demo from E3?

Sadly it isn't that though. :\

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The "demo" = GT Academy 2013.

I know this, but you don't think they'll have some features that will translate to the final game? Or do you expect them to run us all the way to the release on hype and hoping the new updated engine seals the deal? I really don't see them giving more info, the pre-E3 15th Anni event was a very big deal and on par with what they did at E3, probably bigger. Maybe we will get an extensive interview that gives us an idea of what exact features we will get, but at this moment I don't see how people can say we got one.

What I meant by that is the demo is basically a GT Academy demo, which could showcase the new physics (which I'm excited for by the way). Not sure what you're thinking, you mean the demo from E3?

Sadly it isn't that though. :\

I know it isn't like E3, but I think it will be better than the last GTA to give gamers a sense of what they can expect beyond the driving. This could show us lighting/shadowing of tracks, wet track physics simulation, night and day transitions the list goes on. There are plenty of things that can be revealed beyond just car handling.