I have made some mistakes

[Baroket]

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.
Some people just don’t know what racing actually means and end up really angry, then spend the rest of the race trying to take you out.

What unfair repercussions from fellow drivers have you experienced?

 

[Draggon]

Wow, he must have let the size of his gentleman's sausage get in the way of his senses. I was at Blue Moon last night and I got stuck with a jerk I've raced with before. 4 people including myself came up to pass during the race, and he messed with us all. It was pretty amazing to see him block and run racers into the wall over and over. I remember these types of guys and chat "xxxxx is dirty" at the beginning of practice.

More like his gentleman's cocktail weenie. I hate people like that. Did you report him?

 

[VBR]

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.
Some people just don’t know what racing actually means and end up really angry, then spend the rest of the race trying to take you out.

What unfair repercussions from fellow drivers have you experienced?

Watched the whole video, & the guy was making lots of deliberate contact which qualifies him as dirty in my book. You should definitely report him for that, not just for your own sake, but for the sake of all other drivers who want to drive cleanly. If you can send a link to that video as well to PD/Sony/Whoever, then even better.

However, a little constructive criticism; I would also have to say that you might want to work on your competence as a racer regarding avoiding unnecessary incidents. I can see that the contact wasn't deliberate, & get the impression that you're a clean & honourable racer. That said, there is always room for improvement.

I wrote an article many years ago about racecraft in GT games, maybe you'll find it of some use: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-good-racecraft-guide.183891/


👍

 

[Baroket]

However, a little constructive criticism; I would also have to say that you might want to work on your competence as a racer regarding avoiding unnecessary incidents.

Yes, I agree. I could have done more to avoid contact. I’m always trying to improve and I will certainly study that race craft guide.

 

[VBR]

Yes, I agree. I could have done more to avoid contact. I’m always trying to improve and I will certainly study that race craft guide.

Me to. Even though I wrote that guide, I'm still human & make mistakes; even running into the back of someone now & then just like you!

 

[sundaydriving]

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.
Some people just don’t know what racing actually means and end up really angry, then spend the rest of the race trying to take you out.

What unfair repercussions from fellow drivers have you experienced?

Im not at all surprised by this. How do you know they were angry? This looks like a game of demolition derby and they were just playing along.

 

[Baroket]

How do you know they were angry?

Perhaps the abusive message I got after the race.

Did you report him?

Certainly did.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.
Some people just don’t know what racing actually means and end up really angry, then spend the rest of the race trying to take you out.

What unfair repercussions from fellow drivers have you experienced?

Sorry man, but you took yourself out in that race. Watch the footage, you blocked his exit line from the apex keeping your car near the inside of the track when you should have moved to the outer edge. He simply moved along the exit line while you didn't. If you would have moved to the outside edge of the track you wouldn't have gotten spun.

Once he established a line on the inside of the turn, he has right of way to the exit line up to a car width at the tracks edge (where your car should be). You are not allowed to run two wide around an apex while trying to trap the inside driver to the inside after the turn.

The other driver was acting like trash but if I was racing in front of you I would be presuming that I have a maniac behind me. Though I wouldn't have rammed you on every straight, I totally would have pushed you out of the way if you blocked my exit line.

 

[Baroket]

Sorry man, but you took yourself out in that race. Watch the footage, you blocked his exit line from the apex keeping your car near the inside of the track when you should have moved to the outer edge. He simply moved along the exit line while you didn't. If you would have moved to the outside edge of the track you wouldn't have gotten spun.

Once he established a line on the inside of the turn, he has right of way to the exit line up to a car width at the tracks edge (where your car should be). You are not allowed to run two wide around an apex while trying to trap the inside driver to the inside after the turn.

The other driver was acting like trash but if I was racing in front of you I would be presuming that I have a maniac behind me. Though I wouldn't have rammed you on every straight, I totally would have pushed you out of the way if you blocked my exit line.

You are 100% wrong. If a driver is in front, they have right of way. It is the responsibility of the driver behind to pass cleanly.
You’re actions would be just as foul as his if you were to act like you describe, in my opinion.

 

[sihpmo]

many drivers don' t know what brakes are and because of this they think they are faster, pretending to have free way

 

[sihpmo]

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.
Some people just don’t know what racing actually means and end up really angry, then spend the rest of the race trying to take you out.

What unfair repercussions from fellow drivers have you experienced?

if i was you that guy couldn't finish his race

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

You are 100% wrong. If a driver is in front, they have right of way. It is the responsibility of the driver behind to pass cleanly.
You’re actions would be just as foul as his if you were to act like you describe, in my opinion.

First, lets correct your assertion. If I'm working the inside and running two wide, I am not behind the driver as we approach the apex, and we have sufficient overlap for shared rights. Neither the FIA or the in-game rule systems allow the outside driver to just block the exit line mid track.

In a real world race the outside driver would get a warning, but the inside driver is not allowed to hit the outside driver. In the real world though, this sort of outside line driving would typically result in an incident since the inside driver thinks he's going to drift to the outside exit a car's width from the edge of the track. If the outside car doesn't go where he's supposed to, he will get hit as the inside driver begins to accelerate outwards towards their exit line.

In the game, there is no warning to the outside driver, but the inside driver will receive no penalty if they rub the outside driver to the edge of the course. This is what I do, because the same players that block the exit line are the same people who weave block and barge pass (all bad behavior that the system doesn't penalize). So, if you block my exit line you're getting a free ride to the edge of the track because apparently people don't know that they're supposed to go there and the video game won't penalize me for gently putting them there.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
"If the driver going around the outside is not sufficiently far ahead to take the racing line on apex, they can continue on an outside line. In this case, a potential dispute arises at corner exit. The driver on the outside naturally wants to continue their trajectory along the outside, while the driver on the inside wants to take a quicker straighter line by running out to the edge of the track. Who owns that piece of track on corner exit? Who is to blame in the event of a collision there?

If the driver on the inside is behind at corner exit, they must leave space for the driver on the outside.

If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision."

I am operating within the established rules of the game against people who choose to race against normal racing etiquette. I don't crash them off of the course and I've never received a penalty from the game for being assertive about my rights to my exit line. I know it's a bit aggressive but I don't have time to presume if somebody will or will not drive properly on their shared exit line.

 

[kilesa4568]

When you're racing and you punt someone hard twice in a single lap, Newton's third law often comes into effect: For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Gospel to a lot of GTS drivers.

Hiding behind...

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.

...doesn't help the person you just punted and who is likely driving on their mirrors from their total lack of trust in you.

You are 100% wrong. If a driver is in front, they have right of way. It is the responsibility of the driver behind to pass cleanly.

95% of the responsibility goes to the driver behind and the last 5% is you making sure you always leave room so you limit or avoid incidents. Wheel to wheel, the responsibility is shared 50-50 and more often than not, some contact happens. Bear in mind wheel to wheel is tough through corners. Give the benefit of the doubt as to who's fault it was as it may actually be yours.

Want a tip? Don't brake directly behind someone while you're still learning the ropes. Give yourself an escape route, even if it means running off track to avoid contact.

 

[Baroket]

If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision."

The incident at 2:40? Where I was ahead.👍

When you're racing and you punt someone hard twice in a single lap, Newton's third law often comes into effect: For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Gospel to a lot of GTS drivers.
Hiding behind...

...doesn't help the person you just punted and who is likely driving on their mirrors from their total lack of trust in you.



95% of the responsibility goes to the driver behind

As much as I agree with much of what you say, I must stress: I’m not hiding behind anything. I try to race as best I can, and incidences happen. But malicious take-out manouvers are never justifiable.

Tip to yourself, don’t judge my race skills on just one video. My channel has plenty you could get your teeth into.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The incident at 2:40? Where I was ahead.👍

Ahead?

On the first turn of the esse you're clearly ahead. On the second turn of the esse he establishes a trailing overlap on the inside (you even had to respect his space because he was literally beside you) and he then heads towards the exit line while you stayed center track.

Was he supposed to predict that you were going to abormally stop in the middle of the track like that? No, he's going to assume that you're trying to exit as fast as possible and will be using the whole width of the exit line, while he gets to use everything up to the outer edge of the track. But you stopped going wide and his momentum carried him into your rear flank, spinning you out.

It was an incident you could have avoided.

 

[DigitalBaka]

The incident at 2:40? Where I was ahead.👍

At 2:45, where you were sufficiently overlapped. You gave room on the entry but not the exit. You do not have a right to trap him to the (slower) inside line by maintaining the middle of the track.

EDIT: tree'd

 

[Baroket]

Ahead?

On the first turn of the esse you're clearly ahead. On the second turn of the esse he establishes a trailing overlap on the inside (you even had to respect his space because he was literally beside you) and he then heads towards the exit line while you stayed center track.

Was he supposed to predict that you were going to abormally stop in the middle of the track like that? No, he's going to assume that you're trying to exit as fast as possible and will be using the whole width of the exit line, while he gets to use everything up to the outer edge of the track. But you stopped going wide and his momentum carried him into your rear flank, spinning you out.

It was an incident you could have avoided.

I’d love to know what part of being at full throttle is stopping in the middle of the track...
But yes, I was ahead and I squeezed him, but I did not force him off the track. I’ll share the full replay for you to micro analysis if you’d like.

At 2:45, where you were sufficiently overlapped. You gave room on the entry but not the exit. You do not have a right to trap him to the (slower) inside line by maintaining the middle of the track.

EDIT: tree'd

As above. Plus he had room. I was full throttle, ahead and defending.

Each driver to their own mantra.

 

[NevilleNobody]

However, a little constructive criticism; I would also have to say that you might want to work on your competence as a racer regarding avoiding unnecessary incidents. I can see that the contact wasn't deliberate, & get the impression that you're a clean & honourable racer. That said, there is always room for improvement.
👍

To be fair, the guy in front was braking absolutely unbelievably early, he was ACHINGLY slow, my god i felt like i could get out and walk faster. very hard to avoid contact when someone is throwing out the anchor half way down the straight. In cayman no less!

 

[ASH32]

The more contact you have the more likely you are to suffer in the end, there's loads of drivers out that drive fair enough until just one person touches then they go bananas and hit anyone. I know I've accidently hit some people and the reactions of some of them was not good, for me or others in that race, so it's something I try to avoid if I can now but accept accidents can happen sometimes.

However you did hit them first (twice), even if it was accidental and not entirely your fault, in the race with no replay and maybe no rear view mirror depending on what view they were using, they may well have thought your actions were deliberate, maybe without those contacts they wouldn't have tried to ram you into the wall, I don't know, they could just be dirty, many are. Yet after this you still engaged in more avoidable contact with them, which is what I really don't understand and in the end you suffered for it badly. Race like this often and you'll be involved in a lot of incidents you'd otherwise avoid.

 

[kilesa4568]

But malicious take-out manouvers are never justifiable.

The bane of lower rank GTS where every bump is taken personally until proven otherwise. Missing brake marks and/or not taking a draft into consideration is usually top of the list for dirty tactics and it's hard to tell if it's a genuine mistake or deliberate. I'm not saying you're a bad (or dirty) driver (sorry if it came over that way) but the two big shunts in your video could have very easily been avoided and the repercussions may never have happened. The guy may even be the same as you but had 1 shunt too many that day. I've got friends in my list who would rather crash than hit someone but they've got a definite limit on how many punts they'll take before they react. We're all human and sometimes overreact.

Plus he had room. I was full throttle, ahead and defending.

Nope. Definite overlap on the exit and a much better run. You over defended by not taking the natural line and risked being pitted. (Nice save by the way.)

I've looked at your stats and while your SR is good for a DRC, your DR itself is erratic. Good or better race craft goes a long way to stabilising that.

I think you may be about to dig your heals in on this so I'll butt out now.

 

[Baroket]

The more contact you have the more likely you are to suffer in the end, there's loads of drivers out that drive fair enough until just one person touches then they go bananas and hit anyone. I know I've accidently hit some people and the reactions of some of them was not good, for me or others in that race, so it's something I try to avoid if I can now but accept accidents can happen sometimes.

However you did hit them first (twice), even if it was accidental and not entirely your fault, in the race with no replay and maybe no rear view mirror depending on what view they were using, they may well have thought your actions were deliberate, maybe without those contacts they wouldn't have tried to ram you into the wall, I don't know, they could just be dirty, many are. Yet after this you still engaged in more avoidable contact with them, which is what I really don't understand and in the end you suffered for it badly. Race like this often and you'll be involved in a lot of incidents you'd otherwise avoid.

Indeed, I very much agree. I could have done more to avoid going into the back of him (twice ). Frustration got the better of me on the last lap.

May this be a lesson for everyone (twice for me )

 

[TheGeologist]

I'm not so sure these are unfair reprocussions.

After ramming him twice he gets you back. Its not something I would do if I was him, but I can't fault them for doing it either.

He definitely does a lot of blocking which is wrong on his part, but once you get back by, it doesnt appear to me that he is trying to take you out. At 2:45 it appears you cut him off and spun yourself out. It'd be better to have his view of that accident to see if he spun you or if you came down.

While I do agree his driving is uncalled for, I would say the same to you OP. You've got to understand your breaking zones better when in traffic before attempting sport mode. Your laps didn't look too bad, you just didn't have the best breaking zones in the two areas of the track where it is most important. You can fix this with practice. You'll get there!

Best of luck

 

[sturk0167]

Pretty much every driver in every race makes mistakes. It shouldn't be a big deal. The guy who rammed you made plenty of mistakes, otherwise you wouldn't have caught back up to him. You just happened to make mistakes with him in front of you. The video doesn't show you racing dirty. The only way to judge another driver is his actions. He didn't know what you were thinking.

 

[Baroket]

The bane of lower rank GTS where every bump is taken personally until proven otherwise. Missing brake marks and/or not taking a draft into consideration is usually top of the list for dirty tactics and it's hard to tell if it's a genuine mistake or deliberate. I'm not saying you're a bad (or dirty) driver (sorry if it came over that way) but the two big shunts in your video could have very easily been avoided and the repercussions may never have happened. The guy may even be the same as you but had 1 shunt too many that day. I've got friends in my list who would rather crash than hit someone but they've got a definite limit on how many punts they'll take before they react. We're all human and sometimes overreact.



Nope. Definite overlap on the exit and a much better run. You over defended by not taking the natural line and risked being pitted. (Nice save by the way.)

I've looked at your stats and while your SR is good for a DRC, your DR itself is erratic. Good or better race craft goes a long way to stabilising that.

I think you may be about to dig your heals in on this so I'll butt out now.

I actually fully agree with you here. My biggest weakness is my consistency.

I take all advice and criticism in the same way, everyone has their own opinions and I do take them into consideration ( especially when I am a novice).

Can’t learn if you don’t think differently at times. I will make sure I give more room in similar situations.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I have made some mistakes, but I always try to keep it fair.
Some people just don’t know what racing actually means and end up really angry, then spend the rest of the race trying to take you out.

What unfair repercussions from fellow drivers have you experienced?

The first two incidents are obviously the Nissan's fault, what happened afterwards is a direct result of that. If I was driving the Porsche I wouldn't know the Nissan is badly driven but assume that the driver behind is deliberately trying to take me out of the race (especially the second one, you're half a second back. Even if you're not sure of the correct braking point you can see his brake lights come on and have plenty of time to do something about it). Is the reaction over the top? Maybe/maybe not, I'm sure we've all reacted to other peoples driving in the past.

 

[Macboyilija]

@Baroket: that first hit clearly was a mistake but very fair that you waited. You seem as a very fair racer. But even I felt the pain just watching that second hit you made from behind. I mean I understand its just a mistake. But being hit twice completely unnecessary from the back can be very annoying. He cannot look into your head.

While I would never give repercussions myself I can understand his frustration. Would not report him since it clearly seems an act of frustration and not intentionally ruining your race. What I mean: if you did not hit him twice he would not do that to you. Still he is the one to blame of course. You act for yourself. But I would not call him a dirty driver just based on this video. It was a very dirty action of course. That is not to discuss.

I would call this a very black day racing.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I’d love to know what part of being at full throttle is stopping in the middle of the track...

We're talking about lateral track placement across the track. When running side by side with someone you need to respect the natural line since that is what will make driving around each other predictable and controlled. So even though your exit speed wasn't fast enough to push you to the outside edge, you have a trailing car gaining on you that will probably come out wide on that second esse. Whenever I have a trailing overlapped car behind/beside me, I always take my exit to the edge of the track both for speed and so I won't get pit maneuvered off of the track. You can still get pit maneuvered off at the edge of the track but then they'll get hit with a 10 second penalty. Getting pitted near the apex usually results in the outside driver getting the penalty.

But yes, I was ahead and I squeezed him...

I actually don't think you squeezed him enough. You had a clear lead on the first turn of the esse and left it a bit wide on your right which let him gain the overlap..

...but I did not force him off the track. I’ll share the full replay for you to micro analysis if you’d like.

No one said that you did. You did however, sit on the exit line.

That being said, it's not like I'm 100% blaming you here. I'm simply commenting on accident avoidance and how your failure to adhere to the natural racing line put your car in a dangerous situation.

As for the accidentally ramming, try lifting off of the gas several car lengths before the braking zone. When you're drafting someone heading into a corner, you're going faster than them and if you try to use the same braking point as them, you will hit them. Not to mention if there's a pack ahead of them, then they're going to brake earlier so that they don't ram their leading car. Braking earlier while trailing a car isn't that big of deal. You're already entering the corner faster due to drafting and your earlier braking will let you take a late apex turn and exit the corner faster than the leading car.

 

[Baroket]

I actually don't think you squeezed him enough. You had a clear lead on the first turn of the esse and left it a bit wide on your right which let him gain the overlap..


No one said that you did. You did however, sit on the exit line.

That being said, it's not like I'm 100% blaming you here. I'm simply commenting on accident avoidance and how your failure to adhere to the natural racing line put your car in a dangerous situation.

I’ll take your advice into consideration.