I really don't know what to do?
- Thread starter R35 SKYLIN3
- 58 comments
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- 4,332
OP, that's excellent advice given to you by some of the members - you're only inviting a major headache by getting a used X360. Plus, you don't want it to red-ring on you while racing, do you? Brand new consoles have a higher efficiency ratio, so long as you take good care of them.
Grab a new X360 with FM4. By end of year, you'll be getting a much cheaper X1 along with a heckuva lot more content for FM5 anyway.
Cheers.
Grab a new X360 with FM4. By end of year, you'll be getting a much cheaper X1 along with a heckuva lot more content for FM5 anyway.
Cheers.
- 679
- mrPetros
i will remain on my position that I dont see great value in buying up a new 360.
two things:
1- hardware reliability = not a problem. just dont go for a 360 that is older than 3 years old.
2- cases of account bannings or console bannings
the first one, account ban (lets say for cheating) has nothing at all to do with the console, and since you will be creating a new user account, dont let it trouble you at all.
the second one, the possibility that the hardware itself has been banned (locked out of being able to connect to live), this you will ask the seller and also ask him to operate the machine before you buy it. if h/w is banned, it will not connect (and its not suitable to buy)
other than this, I see nothing else that could make it worth spending 300 or more, when you can have everything you want from it by spending half or less.
now, last year or two years ago, i would not suggest to anyone to go this way, but right now thats what I'm suggesting to everybody, no matter if they are looking for 360 or ps3.
two things:
1- hardware reliability = not a problem. just dont go for a 360 that is older than 3 years old.
2- cases of account bannings or console bannings
the first one, account ban (lets say for cheating) has nothing at all to do with the console, and since you will be creating a new user account, dont let it trouble you at all.
the second one, the possibility that the hardware itself has been banned (locked out of being able to connect to live), this you will ask the seller and also ask him to operate the machine before you buy it. if h/w is banned, it will not connect (and its not suitable to buy)
other than this, I see nothing else that could make it worth spending 300 or more, when you can have everything you want from it by spending half or less.
now, last year or two years ago, i would not suggest to anyone to go this way, but right now thats what I'm suggesting to everybody, no matter if they are looking for 360 or ps3.
- 874
- United Kingdom
Back in the original xbox/ps2 days I would fully agree with you on the points you have made, but its far to costly a risk to purchase a pre-owned 360. A game dev themselves can ban an entire console from the online portions of their own games only, any personal accounts used on that system will also receive the ban for that game also. This same thing works if the console is banned from Xbox live as a whole, every account used on that particular console is also banned. A game ban and an xbox live ban are two different things, as a game dev may have their own set of terms and conditions/code of conduct; and they do permanently remove consoles from been able to connect to their online systems. No game shop will test the hundreds of online games available on the 360 to see if they are banned or not, they may test to see if a console is banned from Xbox live itself though; but I have never heard of a store doing that.
Just to point something out as well, if one of those people you have told to buy a used 360 does so; and it does happen to be banned from Xbox live itself. If that person happens to have any digital downloaded games, and or DLC; they will lose it all. They would never be able to use their old gamertag on another system. If they happen to be friends of yours, and have had their GT on your own system; your own 360 could also get a ban from Xbox live. I have heard of this happening many a time, and I have never heard of a single on of those types of bans been lifted.
- 2,625
- Glasgow
- R35-SKYL1N3
- L3TH4L H1TM4N
Well I cant remember exactly what I have typed before but for one, I plan to use my old xbox live account so it may be a problem with the account ban by association and such, But finding a banned console isnt a problem for me, As I work in a games shop, The policy we have is for staff the price for a pre-owned console is only the trade in price + 5 pounds, So i could pick up a 250gb slim + controller + fm4 + FH + 3 months of live for under £150 but even so, I was just trying to decide wether or not Im just aswell saving up as like I said, I aint had money like this to spend in quite a long time
- 4,332
Hey man, I say get em both! Too bad though, the X1 ain't backwards compatible.
- 874
- United Kingdom
Microsoft are looking into that, AlphaOmegaSin was talking about it in one of his videos.
http://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/08/microsoft-considering-xbox-360-backwards-compatibility-on-xbox-o/
Its only in consideration at the moment, but you never know. MS are a software company, so if they want backwards compatibility on the X1; they will most likely find a way.
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
I'd wait for Forza 6 to get an Xbox One and buy a 360 now and play FM4, FH, PGR4, Race Pro and why not, even play some true HD remakes of some old NFS games.
- 4,332
^^ That's right. If you have even a remote interest in cars or racing, you should NOT miss out on FM4. Period.
- 198
- WY
- SlyNine
I got a used Xbox 360 when mine died. I only got it to hold me over until the X1 and Forza 5 came out. I can relate with your fears. My biggest fear was it being moded and the mod not yet being detected and banned. Then in some future update boom, not only is my console banned but so is my account. Tread carefully.
Emulating a (powerfull-ish) single core across (weak-ish) multiple cores opens a hole lot of problems that, quite frankly, hasn't really been solved yet. SMP is just not that simple. This is why backwards compatibility has not yet been done on the PS4 or X1.
I wouldn't hold my breath. I doubt any one of the 2ghz jaguar cores in the X1 is powerful enough to really emulate any of the 3ghz PowerPC cores in the 360, the architecture is just so different, not to mention the SMT "hyper-threading" capabilities of the 360.
Emulating a (powerfull-ish) single core across (weak-ish) multiple cores opens a hole lot of problems that, quite frankly, hasn't really been solved yet. SMP is just not that simple. This is why backwards compatibility has not yet been done on the PS4 or X1.
- 4,332
Ok, wait...
You saying the X1 isn't all that more powerful than the X360? Furthermore, are you also implying the X1 isn't as powerful as the X360 was compared to the original Xbox?
How inferior is the X1 compared to the PS4 and mid to high end PCs? Now I'm really curious.
You saying the X1 isn't all that more powerful than the X360? Furthermore, are you also implying the X1 isn't as powerful as the X360 was compared to the original Xbox?
How inferior is the X1 compared to the PS4 and mid to high end PCs? Now I'm really curious.
- 13,738
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Or that emulation generally requires orders of magnitude more power than what it's trying to emulate.
Playstation 2 had some neat quirks to it's hardware, but on paper it's pretty weak compared to a modern PC. Yet you still need a fairly strong computer to emulate a Playstation 2 well. Both PS2 emulation on PS3 and Xbox emulation on Xbox 360 were hardly flawless either.
It seems that the bigger the differences in the hardware, the more raw power you generally need to make up for it. It's not impossible to have computationally cheap emulation, it just doesn't usually seem to work out that way.
They probably could make either the X1 or the PS4 backwards compatible, if they wanted. But it would take a lot of work, and still probably be limited in scope. Or they put old hardware in the new machines as they did with early PS3s. And either way, the actual benefit from doing so is limited to generating goodwill with customers. I have doubts that the additional revenue from sales of old format games that wouldn't have otherwise sold would cover the R&D costs of producing the emulation.
Of course, they could have designed their consoles in such a way as to make emulation easy in the first place, but then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Playstation 2 had some neat quirks to it's hardware, but on paper it's pretty weak compared to a modern PC. Yet you still need a fairly strong computer to emulate a Playstation 2 well. Both PS2 emulation on PS3 and Xbox emulation on Xbox 360 were hardly flawless either.
It seems that the bigger the differences in the hardware, the more raw power you generally need to make up for it. It's not impossible to have computationally cheap emulation, it just doesn't usually seem to work out that way.
They probably could make either the X1 or the PS4 backwards compatible, if they wanted. But it would take a lot of work, and still probably be limited in scope. Or they put old hardware in the new machines as they did with early PS3s. And either way, the actual benefit from doing so is limited to generating goodwill with customers. I have doubts that the additional revenue from sales of old format games that wouldn't have otherwise sold would cover the R&D costs of producing the emulation.
Of course, they could have designed their consoles in such a way as to make emulation easy in the first place, but then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
- 198
- WY
- SlyNine
To the OP, if you have a chance to get FM4 and FH, I wouldn't pass it up if you never played them. Amazing games.
The X1 and PS4's hardware is almost directly comparable. On the GPU side of things the PS4 has GDDR5 as opposed to DDR3 for the X1. The PS4 also possesses more GPU shaders (1152 vs. 768; these are the little engines that create much of the eye candy). They are both GCN based gpu's, thus they share the same architecture. On the CPU side of things they are nearly identical. They use 8 core jaguar based cpu's. There are some other minor differences, but the PS4 is without a doubt the more powerful console. The biggest question about the X1 is weather or not the ESram will make up for the X1 using with DDR3, but it will certainly be more difficult to program around.
You can also compare these console directly to a PC, but remember consoles will get more from the hardware then a PC of equivalent hardware. The CPUs are very low end, but there are 8 cores and much less overhead, not to mention API's that are very friendly to low CPU power. The GPU's are midrange, around that of a 7850 ATI if memory serves. There is plenty power there to make amazing looking games.
The biggest problem for the PS4 and X1 is the single core performance. Sure its more powerful than the 360. But, as Imari said, you have to be an order of magnitude more powerful. When the 360 came out those Power PC cores at 3.2ghz were pretty awesome, but X1 on the other hand is a tablet class cpu in todays terms. The GPU side of things there is no problem however.
Please remember that even high end PC's have trouble emulating the 360 or PS4. However Microsoft and Sony have a much better understanding of there systems and would probably be able to emulate them with much less power. I'm just not convinced they could do it with that much less. If it were done I'd bet it would be done on a game per game basis.
I'm no expert, but like I said I wont be holding my breath.
And I'm very sorry about hijacking this thread.
Ok, wait...
You saying the X1 isn't all that more powerful than the X360? Furthermore, are you also implying the X1 isn't as powerful as the X360 was compared to the original Xbox?
How inferior is the X1 compared to the PS4 and mid to high end PCs? Now I'm really curious.
The X1 and PS4's hardware is almost directly comparable. On the GPU side of things the PS4 has GDDR5 as opposed to DDR3 for the X1. The PS4 also possesses more GPU shaders (1152 vs. 768; these are the little engines that create much of the eye candy). They are both GCN based gpu's, thus they share the same architecture. On the CPU side of things they are nearly identical. They use 8 core jaguar based cpu's. There are some other minor differences, but the PS4 is without a doubt the more powerful console. The biggest question about the X1 is weather or not the ESram will make up for the X1 using with DDR3, but it will certainly be more difficult to program around.
You can also compare these console directly to a PC, but remember consoles will get more from the hardware then a PC of equivalent hardware. The CPUs are very low end, but there are 8 cores and much less overhead, not to mention API's that are very friendly to low CPU power. The GPU's are midrange, around that of a 7850 ATI if memory serves. There is plenty power there to make amazing looking games.
The biggest problem for the PS4 and X1 is the single core performance. Sure its more powerful than the 360. But, as Imari said, you have to be an order of magnitude more powerful. When the 360 came out those Power PC cores at 3.2ghz were pretty awesome, but X1 on the other hand is a tablet class cpu in todays terms. The GPU side of things there is no problem however.
Please remember that even high end PC's have trouble emulating the 360 or PS4. However Microsoft and Sony have a much better understanding of there systems and would probably be able to emulate them with much less power. I'm just not convinced they could do it with that much less. If it were done I'd bet it would be done on a game per game basis.
I'm no expert, but like I said I wont be holding my breath.
And I'm very sorry about hijacking this thread.
- 4,332
Great info! 👍
The PS4 seems like the console to go with.
I suppose by the end of the year seems a good time to determine if the games really will benefit from the extra horses.
Cheers mate, enjoyed reading through that.
The PS4 seems like the console to go with.
I suppose by the end of the year seems a good time to determine if the games really will benefit from the extra horses.
Cheers mate, enjoyed reading through that.
- 13,738
- Adelaide
- Neomone
If you thought that raw power resulted in better games, certainly.
Me, I tend to think that better developers make better games, given a certain minimum competence of hardware. I rather think Naughty Dog or Rockstar could make a better game on PS3 than, say, Gearbox Software could make on PS4.
I'll be waiting to see which console develops a library of exclusives that interests me more. The differences in processing power are negligible in my opinion. You'll give up some eye candy on X1, which I'm more than willing to do for a good game. I'm still playing GT Legends, I'm hardly going to be bothered by graphics which are slightly less than cutting edge in 2014.
- 198
- WY
- SlyNine
If you thought that raw power resulted in better games, certainly.
Me, I tend to think that better developers make better games, given a certain minimum competence of hardware. I rather think Naughty Dog or Rockstar could make a better game on PS3 than, say, Gearbox Software could make on PS4.
I'll be waiting to see which console develops a library of exclusives that interests me more. The differences in processing power are negligible in my opinion. You'll give up some eye candy on X1, which I'm more than willing to do for a good game. I'm still playing GT Legends, I'm hardly going to be bothered by graphics which are slightly less than cutting edge in 2014.
You give me Forza 5 physics and Forza 4 everything else. I'd be playing that. The PS4 will be the place for multiplatform games; the delta wont be that big. More like 900p vs. 1080p, a more steady frame rate. But the PS4 will never have Forza or Halo. The X1 certainly has enough power to make great games.
Personally I just own them both, and a good computer.
- 4,332
Hmm, Halo I don't care about. FM5.. mehh.
If PCARS has a better PS4 version and if PD decides to do something innovative with GT on new gen, then maybe. Otherwise FM6, though I don't want to wait 2 years. Don't know how long the X360's going to keep me going.
Right now, at crossroads.
If PCARS has a better PS4 version and if PD decides to do something innovative with GT on new gen, then maybe. Otherwise FM6, though I don't want to wait 2 years. Don't know how long the X360's going to keep me going.
Right now, at crossroads.
- 661
OP, wait til next month, there will be a Kinect-less Xbox ONE for $399.
http://news.xbox.com/2014/05/xbox-delivering-more-choices
(Corrected, DLC isn't mentioned for a discount)
http://news.xbox.com/2014/05/xbox-delivering-more-choices
(Corrected, DLC isn't mentioned for a discount)
Last edited:
- 4,332
Yeah I didn't come across the discounted DLC part either.
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
Forza 5 came out in 2013 which means Forza 6 will be out in 2015. You would only have to wait 1 year for F6. Horizon 2 will likely be out this year. These games will be in a 2 year rotation. Horizon, Forza, Horizon, Forza.........
On a side note, it sounds like you have already made up your mind to get the PS4. Both are great consoles so you cant go wrong either way. At the end of the day all that matters is what makes YOU happy.
- 4,332
^^ Yeah man. I just want the console that has the better sim. I don't care much for GT, but if PCARS does have a better PS4 version, then the PS4 it is. Then again, I want to see what kind of goods FM6 and FH2 deliver.
Crossroads...!
Crossroads...!
- 432
I already have pCARS on PC. Still gonna double dip with the ps4 version.
- 1,978
- Ohio
- IceManPJN
- IceMan PJN
PD don't innovate. Their thing is taking several years to do less than what the competition did in half the time and always lagging behind. You won't see a proper PS4 GT until at least 2017, and even that is pretty bloody optimistic, though I reckon we will see an updated rehash of GT6 on PS4 at some point. By the time GT7 (or GT8, if they choose to use "GT7" for an update of GT6) gets here, we will have FM6 that will probably be a huge improvement over FM5 (as 3 was over 2) and possibly even FM7 releasing at around the same time.
PS4 and One are current-gen. PS3 and 360 are last-gen.
- 4,332
Yeah, I'm afraid Kaz and his team are all washed up and out of ideas. Whereas T10 has a great creative director at the helm, and these guys are just full of innovative ideas. Though I've a feeling Microsoft is holding them back from displaying all their gimmickry. I wonder how a Forza game would turn out on a PS4 or PC. Or if T10 works independently. Also, I think they should outsource some of their sound and graphics like they did with the physics - Calspan. They should have made a much more noticeable jump in audio and visuals. For instance, particle effects and night driving taking a backseat... again?!!
Sounds are not quite there yet but naturally improved and far better than anything you'd experience on a console.
- 357
- Nordrhein-Westfalen
Forza 5 audio is inconsistent, not all cars change sound when you equip a race exhaust.
It's clearly a rushed product, remember when Forza 2 had a different sound for street/sport/race exhaust?
The glory days. It was fun trying out different exhaust types.
Night racing aswell, we had that in 2005, Tokyo, Paicific shipyards and the oval night track.
It could be happening in 6, but according to the latest interviews, the focus doesn't seem to be on that.
I believe Turn 10 already outsources 3D modelling. And I don't think Calspan helped develop the physics so much as T10 consulted Calspan for testing and data.
