I sincerely hope that Gran Turismo 7's physics aren't carried over from GT Sport.

  • Thread starter DefNotJake
  • 63 comments
  • 13,347 views
656
United States
Maryland, USA
Is there anyone that truly wants these physics to return along with GT7? The game just feels ridiculously twitchy, and loose using a controller. Most street cars (usually RWD) feel like all of their weight is centered on the top of the hood. All this does is make the car extremely snap oversteer-y, and just extremely twitchy in general. The oversteer combind with twitchyness in the driving characteristics is kinda fun on tracks with wide-sweeping corners on the Nordschleife, but makes driving on tracks like Laguna Seca with slow and tight corners a massive chore sometimes. The only bandaid fix I could ever find for it is by putting sport hard tires in the front, and sport softs on the rear. It makes the car feel much more balanced, but then the car has too much grip at the rear to the point its nearly impossible to spin out. I also tried turning down my controller sensitivity to see if that helps, but it just makes recovering the slides caused by any oversteer even harder.

I've recently started giving the Gran Turismo 5 singleplayer a playthough for the first time since its release, and I find myself preferring the feel of that game the more I get back into it. Yes, the suspension is a bit too stiff in some cars, but the weight of the car shifts in a more realistic and predictable way, making it much more easier and fun to push my car to the limit and counter any slides without snapping into the other direction... and that's while using the terribly uncomfortable Dualshock 3!

I would like to hear others thoughts on the handling in GT Sport, and how it should be improved in GT7 or why it should stay the way it is. Keep in mind, I'm not necessarily suggesting that GT7 should be more realistic or more arcade.


Here are are a couple of clips I've rushed to put together as examples. Every car is stock, using sports soft tires, with a Dualsense (ps5) controller. Notice how the suspension reacts to me turning the wheel (even at ridiculously slow speeds), and notice how in the Nurburgring clip the quick bodyroll directly impacts the handling of the car. (it also helps me to go around corners way faster than I should be able to in a super heavy Aston Martin)





 
1,275
United States
California
JoshsoJB
I find pretty much all of the road cars controllable and easy to recover on controller personally, even with the less grippy tires. Can't comment on the realism because I haven't driven a car, let alone on the edge, nor any sims besides PC2 which I cannot stand the feeling of on controller, but my experience has been comfortable. That being said, I hope GT7 addresses the problems you're having. GT5, 6, and GTS have all felt good to me so I probably won't mind any changes they make in 7.
 
Last edited:

daan

Salut Gilles
Moderator
35,251
Scotland
Scotland
GTP_daan
I'm surprised the lack of racing brakes wasn't one of GTS's biggest complaints. I literally don't know how we went 5 years without racing brakes.
The topic is GT7's physics, not the lack of racing brakes in GTS.
 
1,213
United States
Selatapura, Usea
The topic is GT7's physics, not the lack of racing brakes in GTS.
I understand that daan, but if GTS had proper brake tuning then I don't think you'd even hear half the complaints about the physics.
 

Scaff

Moderator
27,842
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
I don't see how brake tuning is going to affect aero, tyre and suspension simulation which are all lacking.
Not to mention that racing brakes are only really going to help with brake fade, which GTS doesn't model anyway.
 
22,835
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Anyway the issue in the OP has been a problem since at least GT5. Back then the fastest drivers would even use the handbrake to slide the car on entry and get it pointed in, with no repercussions. I assume they still do?

I doubt things will change too much in GT7.
 
Last edited:
656
United States
Maryland, USA
I'm surprised the lack of racing brakes wasn't one of GTS's biggest complaints. I literally don't know how we went 5 years without racing brakes.

Even though its pretty off topic, I do agree that it only makes sense that you get the option to slow down your car quicker if you can already upgrade the power and decrease the weight without negative side affects.

Anyway the issue in the OP has been a problem since at least GT5. Back then the fastest drivers would even use the handbrake to slide the car on entry and get it pointed in, with no repercussions. I assume they still do?

I doubt things will change too much in GT7.

Yeah, if they were going to make a change like that, our best chance of it happening already past with the introduction of Sport mode.
 
Last edited:
656
United States
Maryland, USA
Hopefully these issues will at least be somewhat addressed with Michelin's involvement.
At this rate, looks like the only thing we will get out of it is some tire stickers, and Road Atlanta (Michelin Raceway) lol. Hope I'm wrong though.
 
22,835
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Hopefully these issues will at least be somewhat addressed with Michelin's involvement.

I highly doubt it. Historically these types of partnerships have rarely been too technical in nature, mostly just branding/marketing with lots of vague claims of mutual benefits.

They partnered with KW Suspension for Gran Turismo 6 and it had virtually zero effect on the suspension modelling.
 
3,151
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
I highly doubt it. Historically these types of partnerships have rarely been too technical in nature, mostly just branding/marketing with lots of vague claims of mutual benefits.

They partnered with KW Suspension for Gran Turismo 6 and it had virtually zero effect on the suspension modelling.
Looking at the original article here, it looks more like KW had some sort of tuning system rather than contribute to the suspension modeling for the game. Whereas I think I heard something a bit more explicit when the Michelin partnership was announced.
 
22,835
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Looking at the original article here, it looks more like KW had some sort of tuning system rather than contribute to the suspension modeling for the game. Whereas I think I heard something a bit more explicit when the Michelin partnership was announced.

It was just typically vague marketing talk though. "With Michelin's data and knowledge we can create something more realistic than ever before" from Kaz and other PR 101 stuff like this:

“When you take the amount of data we’ve collected over the years from different circuits, different vehicles, different tire compounds and marry that with some of our simulation capabilities, it’ll bring a whole new dimension of strategy and ultimately improve the performance and realism of the game. That’s really what we’re both trying to do here and it’s really an exciting new digital adventure.”

I mean don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than to see a huge improvement thanks to the partnership. I just know from history it's more than likely to result in very little beyond marketing benefits. Let's hope I'm proven wrong.
 

ScottPye20

Powered by Nulon
Premium
11,609
Australia
Melbourne
ScottPye20
GT Sports physics will be carried over to GT7. PD aren't going to make a new physics model because that would be unnecessary. They aren't bad and with some refinement they can provide more realism without venturing into full-on sim territory. But the tyres are in desperate need of an overhaul to simulate a wider variety of construction types from a wider time period.
 
3,550
United States
PNW
happycorey
I think that GTS physics are likely to return but they're certainly the best yet. I think if they tweak them it's only going to be in a positive way while making the game novice to professionally enjoyable.
 
656
United States
Maryland, USA
I think that GTS physics are likely to return but they're certainly the best yet. I think if they tweak them it's only going to be in a positive way while making the game novice to professionally enjoyable.

I do agree the suspension physics are the best overall compared to any game in the series, and using GT Sport as the groundwork makes perfect sense. But, there definitely are things that past games did better. As I said, the way the cars weight moves around in GT5 felt way better to me. Weight just shifts a bit too quickly in GT Sport imo. The way the car reacts to curbs and bumps is great though.
 
Last edited:
3,151
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
On a similar note, I hope tuning is a bit more fun. I don't like being forced into either testing small tweaks for a certain track, or just copying other people's tunes. Perhaps tuning certain settings could be better-explained, or there could be more online events where tuning is permitted, but specifically only certain metrics. For example, there could be an event that allows any Gr.1 car - which ideally would be an exception in a world where most Gr.1 events are limited to a sub-set of cars like the Group C racers - and allows tuning, but only for the front and rear downforce.

Heck, I'd also be fine with the events that allow any car from a featured group (e.g. Gr.4 and Gr.3) if we were allowed to tune them on top of the BoP changes, as even limited tuning could deal a serious blow to the scenario where only one or two cars are overly-popular. Heck, I recall a time trial where tuning was permitted for any Gr.4 car, and I did very well with the Hyundai Genesis Gr.4, and all I really did was tinker with the downforce and gear ratios.
 
Last edited:
126
United States
United States
Marius789
Looks to me that you need to adjust the sensitivity in your settings or invest in a proper rig. Correct me if I'm wrong, when you move the stick dramatically in such a fashion, the steering angle itself is simulated as if you're steering all the way to the vehicle's potential. Even if visually it doesn't appear that way in cockpit view.

I do not use the controller, btw. I have a proper rig so I have not seen these issues. I have also seen many people say that GTS is very controller friendly.
 
656
United States
Maryland, USA
Looks to me that you need to adjust the sensitivity in your settings or invest in a proper rig. Correct me if I'm wrong, when you move the stick dramatically in such a fashion, the steering angle itself is simulated as if you're steering all the way to the vehicle's potential. Even if visually it doesn't appear that way in cockpit view.

I do not use the controller, btw. I have a proper rig so I have not seen these issues. I have also seen many people say that GTS is very controller friendly.
I do own a 'proper rig' I use for rFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa. I don't use it with GT because I don't play Gran Turismo to be a sim, I play it as a racing game. Even the few times I used my wheel with GT Sport, I still have the issue of most cars having twitchy handling combined with oversteer with all versions of Sport tires. This issue doesn't exist in past games, as I've started playing through GT5 fairly recently. Also, this problem still exists no matter the sensitivity as I stated in my post. The only real bandaid fix I've found for this is by using Sports Hards for the front tires, and Sports Softs for the rears.

Keep in mind I have no interest in GT being a sim racer, I just want the game to feel good using a gamepad.
 
580
Italy
Italy
I do agree the suspension physics are the best overall compared to any game in the series, and using GT Sport as the groundwork makes perfect sense. But, there definitely are things that past games did better. As I said, the way the cars weight moves around in GT5 felt way better to me. Weight just shifts a bit too quickly in GT Sport imo. The way the car reacts to curbs and bumps is great though.


Tyre model should be improved now with Michelin partnership, then what we need is even a better weight transfer system and better temperature simulation not just for tyres but even for the track temperature/humidity since day night cycle, real time and dynamic weather should return very likely. It might be possible realistically.


Do you think it's possible to get at least that? I think there are good chances since GT6 had these options for temperature and better weight transfer (a part from bad tyre model), so could be likely to see it back in GT7
 
Last edited:

Scaff

Moderator
27,842
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
Tyre model should be improved now with Michelin partnership, then what we need is even a better weight transfer system and better temperature simulation not just for tyres but even for the track temperature/humidity since day night cycle, real time and dynamic weather should return very likely. It might be possible realistically.


Do you think it's possible to get at least that? I think there are good chances since GT6 had these options for temperature and better weight transfer (a part from bad tyre model), so could be likely to see it back in GT7
These partnerships are not new fro PD, historically they have never lead to a significant improvement in the relative area of the title in question.

In these areas PD has a lot (and I mean a good five to ten years) of catching-up on the majority of sims on the market, at the end of the day, what we get will be determined by where PD and Sony want to position the GT series.
 
41,088
Australia
The Bronx
This is where I'm hoping Simulation Mode(SM) will be a better leap than past GT games. Arcade Mode should be the current GTS tyre model/physics. Make it improved once players switch over to SM.

To be clear, I'm saying Simulation Mode shouldn't just be a place where players go for endurance racing and real life scenarios. I'm saying the physics should be dialled up.
 
Last edited:
616
Spain
Spain
Every GT game has had different physics.
There is no reason to suggest GT7 physics will be the same as the ones in GTS.
They even change with updates on the same game. They evolve all the time
 
Last edited:

Scaff

Moderator
27,842
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
Every GT game has had different physics.
There is no reason to suggest GT7 physics will be the same as the ones in GTS.
They even change with updates on the same game. They evolve all the time
I don't think anyone is disputing that, however the core of the engine does carry over, and that's clear to see given that we have issues and missing elements of it across multiple titles.
 
580
Italy
Italy
I don't think anyone is disputing that, however the core of the engine does carry over, and that's clear to see given that we have issues and missing elements of it across multiple titles.


But as they improved physics from 6 to Sport, they will do the same with GT7, and maybe improve tyre model, weight transfer, better temperature, more depth etc. maybe even better damage
 

Scaff

Moderator
27,842
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
But as they improved physics from 6 to Sport, they will do the same with GT7, and maybe improve tyre model, weight transfer, better temperature, more depth etc. maybe even better damage
Indeed, but as my previous post pointed out, the pace at which PD do this is glacial in comparison to the norm in the genre.

Where PD once lead the console market for simulation titles (PS1 to mid PS2), they have slipped further and further behind. Now the real question is do they actually want to improve it beyond the level they have reached, or are they happy with the niche they have carved and dominate in terms of sales.
 
616
Spain
Spain
I don't think anyone is disputing that, however the core of the engine does carry over, and that's clear to see given that we have issues and missing elements of it across multiple titles.
GT Sport physics have some good parts, they should keep those and try to fix the issues. The braking department I think is one of them.
Also I'm a wheel player but I know controller players are not happy at all with GTS so they should improve that too