Gran Turismo 6 to Include KW Suspension Testing System

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Polyphony Digital’s partnership with KW Suspension for Gran Turismo 6 could be more of a collaborative effort than many may have initially realized.

jpegAccording to an article posted at NZGamer.com, a behind the scenes tour was given of Polyphony Digital’s office during last week’s Tokyo Game Show.

After a discussion with Michael Grassi, Head of Motorsport Sales and Technical Support at KW Automotive GmbH, it was revealed that players will be able to fine tune suspension systems using KW’s “7-post” test environment which is as detailed:

The 7-post mode is reserved for the so-called track replay mode. First of all, data has to be collected at the race track which is then evaluated at the test stand. The data record can only be used for identical car constructions.

At the chassis, three solid attachment points have to be created for the three additional hydraulic cylinders which supply lateral inclination, downthrust and other car body movements during the test run.

As you can gather, this level of authenticity will allow players to continually test, tweak, and re-test the cars suspension systems, getting it just right before heading out to the track.

For the entire behind the scenes look, including interesting comments on a new “Vision Gran Turismo” car, check out the entire article here, and learn more about the “7-post test” on KW’s Technology page.

The testing equipment can be seen in action below.

More on Gran Turismo 6

Comments (115)

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  1. Moldy Oldy

    I have worked on real cars and we don’t have suspension rigs for setup each track and each car is different so you have to adjust accordingly.It took me years of trial and error and wouldn’t trade that for anything.I haven’t tried it,some may need it but they are not true GT enthusiast.

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  2. ILoveMyMustangs

    The only thing I just really want is better sound notes, I thin PD is doing a fine job with everything else in the game, I just hope the Shelby GT500 will sound like a nice deep/raspy-ish awesome car that sounds and performs like a V8 should! I personally love my 5.0, and its my baby, I just want these Mustangs or any V8 car to sound real, other than that, Im not trying to be a negative guy, I preordered this GT6 over BF4 so that says something, keep up the good work though PD!

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  3. jhw93

    This is awesome news, i could tell there was an improvement regarding suspension in the gt6 academy demo. This is awesome news and again we have trolls trying to pull it down…. i’m not going to waste my breath (or shall a say ‘fingers/hands’) this time. Anyway, looking forward to seeing you guys on the track those of you who come here to get news like me :)

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  4. Stephanos82

    That machine is lame :( when car travels in track the car’s weight multiplies because of the forces acting on it!

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    1. Griffith500

      It’s for characterising the entire setup on the car, and comparing with track measurements and theory. They could potentially “simulate” aero loads by strapping / spreading weights to / over the active components; putting them elsewhere on the car might compromise the measurements if it’s not very stiff, though (at least on real cars; no idea if GT6 will have such modeling).

      Seems interesting to me; potentially promising in terms of what it might mean for geometry, construction and tune-ability of various suspensions on different cars in the game.

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  5. jagenigma

    what about correctly simulating the weight of the cars so it doesnt appear to be slipping o ice when driving?

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    1. Zuel

      How do you see or anyone in fact that the 7 pot rig is a gimmick for GT 6? No disrespect but are you one of the norm or casual players of GT 5 and not a core racer? The reason why I ask is due to your comment. “We need content and advancement” For one the 7 pot rig addition to me and others clearly states and show ” Advancement” and the content we so desire has already been clear stated that we’ll get.

      So what is your reasoning to think or believe that the 7 pot rig is a gimmick? Are you still along with others still following the same pp tuning that carried over from GT 5 Prologue? Did you take the time to think that this option was added for the core racers instead of the causal racers. It’s clear that GT 5 has two fields, one part of the field you have your causal driver/racer that drivers/race just to do. The other side of the field you have your core drivers/ racers who compete and strive to be faster. SO you have to decide which field are you on. The casual side or the core side.

      I myself am a old school GT core racer, race the cars as they are or properly built and leaving the race cars as they are. I don’t need to put a stage 3 motor, turbo and use the power limiter to make the car I’m using at that moment to make me fast. My skills show that I’m fast not the car.

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    2. ScotteDawg

      @ Zuel – you’ll get used to seeing BWX post negative comments! He is what’s called a “troll”! He is not welcome and people only reply when he starts off with something that sounds like it might be credible/intelligible! This belief usually falls away after 2 seconds of reading and we tend not to read the entire paragraph because he just goes on and on about the same negative crap as always!!

      Yes, he’s a repeat repeater! He’s probably also the sort of person who gets a feeling of pride when his intelligence is insulted…It is best to ignore it – it won’t go away, just ignore it!!!

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  6. Blood*Specter

    hypernegative:

    Your knowledge about suspension is only surpassed by your lack of knowledge about this game.
    The fact that this is just an aid to adjusting the ride of GT6 cars is completely lost on you. No one is claiming or expecting anything more than an alternate method of tuning the suspension of a virtual car within a game.
    In order to play, (a game) you must have some semblance of an imagination. Lighten up ya creep.

    Also, how in the hell do you know how PD/KW modeled their tool? Do you work for PD or KW? Just chill dude.

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  7. hyyperactive

    Seriously I doubt gt6 physics are even close to being enough realistic or high fidelity for a complex thing like suspension shaker rig being usable in the game. The game probably doesn’t even model the suspension parts and movement in 3d, suspension has no effect on aero (maybe except rake), all cars use the same suspension model (no solid rear axles, no mcphersons, and tires have no effect on suspension model.

    Real suspension has at least 3 partly separate moving parts. The tire, the springs/dampers/arbs and the other suspension elements. In gt5 all the cars probably just have the same suspension setup with few different parameters). Tire pressures not changeable, infinitely adjustable shocks and springs with no ride height adjustments or even bumps stops. The list is endless.

    For a gt fanboy a suspension rig may sound nice but anyone who knows anything what you adjust with these rigs you should know instantly there is not enough depth in the game to use this for anything else than for a different looking setup screen. And kw knows this too. The shaker rig and its secrets are their livelyhood and they won’t give those secrets to anyone. Kw knows the “kw suspension rig” in gt6 will be so basic and fudged to work with gt6 physics that it is basically a totally different thing than their real suspension rig.

    Just facts, not opinions but I’m sure this is not what many fanboys want to hear.

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    1. crcn11

      Words like “probably” and “I doubt” don’t mean ‘facts’. Not facts, just your opinion… sorry!

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    2. TokoTurismo

      ^ +1. I like how trolls are now attempting to speak as if the speak facts, when it really is there opinions. To cute.

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    3. Pit Crew

      hyyperactive you should write a book called: How to Assert Negativity Amongst the Masses without Facts but Opinions.

      I’m sure it’ll be a best seller…:(

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    4. Swagger897

      he’s probably just another forza fanboy that stepped into the GT planet to see what we have that they don’t, and start accusations about things they’ve never tested…. I always like it when they never come back to refute their facts.

      But basically what he just said is that Gt is not the worlds leading innovator in racing simulators, rather that it is the epitome of a NFS game..

      blow off will you. I dont even see how you could troll about something which never has been released to general public. Ohh and you saying that it doesnt have the “high fidelity” capability?? aparently someone has never compared the cars telemetry before and after a race.. Try it, you just might want to shut up for a second

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    5. mef

      +1 to what Hyper said. Guys, could you guys please get off your fanboy horses? Hyper described a few parts in suspension setup and suspected that those might notbe modeled to a realistic degree in GT5 in ALL cars (which is reasonable at it is highly complex area). Some parts are left out like bump stops. Gran Turismo notoriously also got the ride heights confused on front and rear. These are facts as Hyper said.

      The other thing, could you please stop calling people names or trolls or call them a Forza fan boy. What is up with that? Hyper did not even mention Forza. It tells a lot more about you than him.
      A little bit more posititive would go a long way guys. Don’t like his opiniion, fine. But don’t call them a troll or fanboy. At that point it’s not worth discussing with each other if that is your reaction.

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    6. Pit Crew

      That’s the thing mef, his OP is based on negativity, not to mention he called people who don’t want to hear negative opinions about anything they may deem evolutionary in GT6 development Fanboys before anyone could even reply to what he said.

      Then the old song and dance ramble about how PD doesn’t use this part or that part, but it’s in a real car, gets really old when it’s spoken in the context of throwing a dim light on an otherwise optimistc and ambitious tuning instrument.

      Fudged to work with GT6 physics engine they are on paper as having a hand in too, so their reputation is on the line amongst the community just as much as PD, and thus should it not work as you put it make sure you criticise them fairly as well.

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  8. MoLiEG

    Interesting feat… with this, tuning will become even more realistic…

    Heck, I’m even starting to feel a little bit optimistic about this game…

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  9. Feldynn

    As interesting and unique as this feature is I find myself wondering, how much use will this really be to the average player? Hopefully it’s inclusion is more a natural product of PD’s work with KW for the overall suspension physics modelling rather than a specific feature they went out of their way to develop.

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    1. aronh17

      That logic is a tad flawed. If humanity has collectively made things for the average person what advances would there be in technology or medicine? We wouldn’t have majority of the cars in this game if we had kept making cars as an average thing. Why did car companies go out of their way to put V8s and V12s into these cars? They’ve spent years mastering aerodynamics, but our speed limits are normally 35-60 MPH. Sometimes you go out of the way to do things for other types of people. The game is about cars, this is for cars, and until they start putting guns in the game, I won’t question their motives.

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  10. infamousphil

    The only problem with the data analyzer was the limited graduations. KW’s system could be better, but by not having a steering wheel and not being an actual race car pilot, I doubt it would be of much help for me.

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    1. tpark103

      You must be new to the series? Things like the oil change center as useless as you may feel they are, have been included for quite sometime and are just unique touches. Without actually having seat-time with the new game and seeing what you can actually do with this, how can you accurately Judge it’s impact?

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    2. Johnnypenso

      Lots of diehards, including me, have 1000+ cars. Even at just 1 minute for an oil change and wash that’s 16 hours wasted on unnecessary things. When you buy a brand new car off the lot and change the oil, the HP of the car does not go up, it’s completely made up. The HP boost from the initial purchase should go, or as a minimum, the animation and loading time that goes with it should go.

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    3. Pit Crew

      I believe JohnnyPenso is referring to Real world new car purchases. Seriously doubt Im getting more power every time I change my actual cars oil, and yes at the least get rid of the corny animation.

      Im gonna give this a shot though, IMO its a cool addition. Probably more useful for Online comps tuning if I had to guess, wouldn’t waste my time using it to out drive the anemic GT A.I. And no I don’t want to compete with GT6 A.I. drivers in online lobbies , just to fill up the empty space.

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    4. sayba2th

      And another useless comment from Pepe however I digress and will move on. I think that a car wash and oil change should remain in the game they have the purpose as PC said take away the animations for both add the ability to do multiple vehicles click accept and done in an instant there is the problem solved, you’re welcome! :-)

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  11. jimantonic

    The settings in GT5 arevery confusing, are we supposed to assume that EVERY car ever made has parallel front toe and 0.2 positive rear toe, or are these numbers representing default settings of the car and any increase/decrease on these figures is the actual figure plus/minus our input? Also what are these numbers? mm? Degrees? Minutes?

    This is the reason I mainly leave the settings stock with a minor tweek of rear toe and diff settings.

    Hopefully the tuning will be relateable to real life in GT6 and be useable, instead of lucking out when you guess the right number for the right box.

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  12. Kobooi

    Some seem to think there will be an actual car in the GT6 box. It’s software stupid, so it’s not necessary to simulate a KW suspension test system in order to collect and analyze suspension data. This will be just a more cumbersome way than just displaying the data when changing a suspension setting, and falls in the same category as the car wash or the oil change.

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    1. HammerBlaster

      Exactly. I would say that actually going on the track and testing what the car feels like and how far the limit of the car is with that suspension setup is better than this software rubbish. I own a G27 so it’s easier to feel the car compared to just using that testing system.
      Although I will give it a go and see what it’s like before I go back to the usual GT5 way of setting up a car.

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    2. Tenacious D

      And you guys know this… how? Oh wait, you don’t. As usual, Gran Turismo is surrounded by pre-judges. ;D

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    3. HammerBlaster

      You’re right that we don’t but chances are I will prefer settingthe car up as I have been doing in GT5. I will try it though, I’ll probably be wrong. It’s a good addition to the game, but wouldn’t it be better modelling more cars or tracks. I was just putting my opinions across of what I wouldmainly do.

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    1. Zuel

      It’s possible he will, though he may have to change his tuning methods. Some of his set are sound but they are to neutral, I haven’t found one that works well for endurance races. The lot are for sprint races, though I am glad to see some of the tuners are build proper cars now as in building the motors to a respectful manner that doesn’t over power the street car and leaving the power bases alone on the race car. Though there are still a few MAD MAX set up out there.

      I really hope we don’t see the norm is GT6 as we do in GT5 but I really don’t see that happening what so ever. Though hopes are high.

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    2. Rionmoon

      Zule,

      dude….

      Can’t find ONE praiano tune to go endurance with???

      Unbelievable.

      No really I think you need to do some more “testing”

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    3. Zuel

      Rionmoon
      I have done enough testing of his sets and I still haven’t found one that will last 25 to 35 laps on a good pace pending on the track. Plus must of if not all of his sets are based off a car that has been overly powered then de-tuned, I don’t care to run my cars in that fashion. SO DUDE…

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  13. panjandrum

    This could be nice. I tend to tune fairly soft since I prefer rough tracks, but this would help “hit the nail on the head”. More importantl though, it probably means that through interacting with a real-world suspension/chassis specialist PD will finally have the tuning parameters set up correctly instead of some of them being backwards. It soooooo bloody difficult to try and remember “this is the way it is on (real) cars, but in Gran Turismo I need to do the opposite to get the same result.” That’s just a tremendous hurdle to overcome, especially for those of us who do (real world) Motorsports and have adjustable suspensions on our own (real) cars. I can’t see this as being anything other than good news.

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    1. Johnnypenso

      I agree it has fantastic potential. It has the potential to make tuning in GT6 the absolute envy of all racing sims. Being able to translate what’s happening on the track into numbers and readable feedback rather than seat of the pants as it is now can, be a tremendous boon to tuning fanatics like myself. But one can understand after dealing with GT5, where some settings indeed appeared backwards, and other tuning adjustments like shocks and ARB’s which should have a big effect on handling, seemed to not be as effective as they could have been. Chassis reinforcement only made cars understeer and did nothing to help lap times. Illogical tricks with a transmission seemed to make a big difference in lap times. These things all need to be fixed before advanced tuning adjustments are useful. Have they been fixed? Nobody knows because nobody is saying? I hope so, but forgive me if I am skeptical until December 6…lol.

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    1. sayba2th

      + 1 Gigabillion ROFLMAO, this is post of the day! All we need now is one woman where each wheel goes and we are in business boys!

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    1. Mubble

      It’s just months spent implementing pointless analysis and coding in to the game when in reality a video game won’t be able to fully utilise the data collected and relay it to the player. Useful for real life track racing, but a waste of man hours on a video game using a thumb stick and buttons. Time would be more effectively spent on other more important areas of the game – sounds, premium cars, livery editor, more tracks etc etc.

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    2. SavageEvil

      How would you know what needs working on? Are you part of the design team, coding team, art team by any chance? Stow your crap, suspension is the next most important things on your car next to your tires. Wow, can’t run out of complainers on this site. Haven’t played the game yet and already leveling complaints at features you haven’t even tried yet. The vitriolic on this site never ceases to amaze me, been here since GT4 launched and can’t believe how many complainers we’ve amassed. I invited a friend to join and he did, but he was upset that all people seem to do is complain on here so he never posted, not even sure he still checks the place out at all.

      If people complained this much at their jobs I wonder if they’d still have jobs? Wait until you have the game in your bloody machine before you complain about things you haven’t tried yet. I’m hungry.

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    3. Maddens Raiders

      ” Useful for real life track racing, but a waste of man hours on a video game using a thumb stick and buttons.”

      — why do you think that everyone who drives GT5 uses the DS3? Ever heard of force feedback steering wheels? Ever heard of something called GT Academy? Are you pretending to be this daft or what?

      “Time would be more effectively spent on other more important areas of the game – sounds, premium cars, livery editor, more tracks etc etc.”

      –you sound like someone who is looking for a more arcade style racing title. you will want to check out the upcoming Drive Club for the PS4 or Forza5 for the XBOXONE.

      Mubble by your banal and quite frankly, narrowly simplistic reasoning, PD should not spend “pointless analysis and coding” on things like engine performance, precise track layouts, advanced car physics, better night time rendering and day/night transitions or as the article states “the ability to allow players to continually test, tweak, and re-test the cars suspension systems, getting it just right before heading out to the track.” Really? Can you point us to your latest console racing project that puts PD to shame?

      Mubble. Please think before you type next time.

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    4. MuoNiuLa

      @MaddeenRaiders: Forza is not arcade, despite ignorant, popular belief. And Forza 5 will be no different. Why don’t you take your own advice and think before you speak as well?

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    5. sayba2th

      While it’s not arcade it is more “forgiving” than GT, makes me wonder just how many people that knock Forza have actually played FM4. I was anti Forza for many years but now find it is a great partner to GT when you want to change it up at times.

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    6. Rionmoon

      First, DONT FEED THE TROLLS

      Second, Mubler reach back with both hands and negative adjust your cranial rectal insertion

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    7. Force-Feedback

      There are good and bad bits about GT 5 and Forza 4, unfortunately GT 5 had more bad then good.

      Forza 5 is out of the question now as FM4 the only game i had on a cheap 2nd hand xbox, I’m not spending £500 quid just to play something that i can guarantee won’t be perfect.

      I still wonder if GT6 will have rolling starts only+no qualifying/practice like in GT1+piss poor used car dealership (as the only way to get most cars). Not to mention the choice of a-spec races that have already apparently been done, so only about 30 races total and most likely limited on choice of cars and track to something you dont want. Not to mention the fact that the cars you race against are tuned with semi racing exhausts… -.-

      Sorry i waffled on for abit everyone as these issues get me every time!

      AAAnyway, point at hand here is that if they’re doing all this just for suspension setup, plus whats written in the article it seems that they might be bringing these back in. I know it’s not going to be practice/qualifying then the option to skip to race like in GT1 but one can only hope i say!

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    8. MuoNiuLa

      @sayba2th: Actually, in their current forms, I would say GT is more forgiving than Forza. Forza 4 has torque steer. GT5 does not, and as a result, high-powered RWD cars launch in a perfectly straight line, which is not realistic. But since GT6’s physics is going to make GT5’s look like a joke, I’m confident this problem will be fixed.

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    9. sayba2th

      MuoNiuLa, then it’s a matter of personal opinion so we will agree to disagree. Agreed though GT6 will be stomping in this area

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  14. tpark103

    Please please please please please please please please would somebody go ahead and AEDEATLY redirect the topic and start WHINING and COMPLAINING. Then after that I implore you to start talking about all of the accomplishments that you’ve achieved or may even possibly will in this lifetime.

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  15. Johnnypenso

    This has great potential but as with all things PD, we have to wait and see how it pans out in the game and how effective it is. Some of you may remember the ride height bug of the last game and how ineffective tuning shocks,ARB’s and even spring rates always seemed to be. This could turn out to be a boon to tuning or another cumbersome, ineffective addition to the game. I’ll hope for the best, but with no set expectations…lol.

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    1. mef

      Sadly true. The ride height bug was embarassing. After that there was no way of trusting any other part of the tuning was not completely broken either… Having sensors to measure ride heights, inclination etc is great. but only if the model works to begin with

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    2. jimantonic

      The settings in GT5 arevery confusing, are we supposed to assume that EVERY car ever made has parallel front toe and 0.2 positive rear toe, or are these numbers representing default settings of the car and any increase/decrease on these figures is the actual figure plus/minus our input? Also what are these numbers? mm? Degrees? Minutes?

      This is the reason I mainly leave the settings stock with a minor tweek of rear toe and diff settings.

      Hopefully the tuning will be relateable to real life in GT6 and be useable, instead of lucking out when you guess the right number for the right box.

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  16. ITCC_Andrew

    I’ll go pre-order GT6, then. :)

    That’s exactly what I was holding out for; some sign that things would drastically improve in the physics department.

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  17. ThatBlokeThere

    F***ing hell! What an addition! I’m starting to really f***ing look forward to GT6. But imagine how good this’ll turn out with all the little bits in the background that weren’t even announced added in, as well.

    But can you imagine the amount of horrible tat that it’d be possible to deliberately engineer using this tool? Doing driving challenges with this type of setup would be quite fun, don’t you think?

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    1. ScotteDawg

      OI, OI, OI!!!

      Don’t forget, there is still over 150 cars we don’t yet know about either…

      And yes, doing driving challenges with this type of setup would DEFINATELY be quite fun!

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  18. Quakebass

    Ok, so obviously not everything is going to be perfect in GT6 at launch day…

    …But I think the physics isn’t one of those things…

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  19. Raggi Boy

    For people who dont understand what the point of this machine is. Basically the more still the car sits with the appropriate test (rally would be bigger & harsher hits) to the application, the better the set up, as still = better tracking and therefore better traction.

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    1. Zuel

      He’s correct Toko, no more hours and hours of track testing, writing down sets or trying to remember what was changed. This will allow use to have just a few hours of test time then fine tune everything with the 7 pot. Though we will have to take aerodynamics in account pending on the cars. I wounder if this addition alone will change the way the casual player plays and what type of lobbies will be out there. Will we see the type of lobbies that the casual player run or will we see more TRUE racing lobbies that the core racers open?

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  20. SavageEvil

    Sweet, now all we need is the wind tunnel and dynomometer and testing and fine tuning your car to utmost levels can be assured. Wish that we could remap the ECU to match the PTW and more. Would love a pro side to GT that resides within the same game, that would be sweeter than candy. GT4 probably, but I hope that the wind tunnel shows up in an update for GT6 during it’s life time.
    Since GT has online and PD can get info from us, perhaps we can have even more input on helping Kaz bring the things that make the game a little more fun for us and pleasing PD in their chase of the never ending driving nirvana.
    Someone tell Kaz and the boys that we really want to see those A Spec RX7 body kits from GT2 once again, that game was the greatest of it’s time. It didn’t gracefully grow old, but you can see the love and attention to cars in there. I shed a tear at the manufacturers lost forever to time unless PD you guys resurrect them somehow, you know, wink, wink, on my knees praying oh please……lol.
    Hmm I hope this suspension thing makes it in, but I am wondering how did they emulate such sophisticated software within GT6 on PS3 and it undoubtedly takes rather powerful PC’s at K&W garage.

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  21. TokoTurismo

    Honestly, this is incredible. I’m really glad GT6 will be getting updated physics thanks to both KW and Yokohama. Dec 6 is gonna be awesome. :)

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    1. Zuel

      +10

      This work started many years ago and it took time for Kaz to find the right formula the right people as to say. These last few mouths have given a small peek in to the life of PD not the work. And from that, I understand why it took the time it did with the resources available. I got a strong feeling that the core races are going to have a blast with GT 6, even so more than the casual player.Even though there is a lot that has been added for the casual player, the 7 pot is more for the core racer along with the Yokohama tire models.

      I’m going to really enjoy Grand Turismo 6.

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    2. TokoTurismo

      Agreed Zuel. :) One of the most favorites are going to be seeing the suspension model kick up through a replay, to see how lively it is especially on Nurburgring. :D

      So excited for this.

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  22. Zuel

    I remember a member making statements about Kaz, PD working or will be working in-depth with race teams, auto manufactures and other manufactures to make the GT title even better, look at what is on the way. There are a lot of people even high level persons that owe this person an apology.

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  23. 05XR8

    Thats nice. Just include those 3 cars in the game(I think the Black Falcon SLS is on the master list though).

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    1. HuskyGT

      We will have the SLS GT3, although it has no livery. We have a similar Mercedes DTM as that one, but I think it’s not exactly the same. And having a Ford GT with a proper racing body would be nice.

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    1. TheNxtGenGT

      Yeah, that thing is a beauty, and that suspension testing thing looks great! I am gonna spend lots of time on that.

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    1. Dragonwhisky

      Doubtful that adding complexity to the tuning aspects of the game will help noobs like me much. It will however, make it possible to refine tunes more specifically, for those that can figure it all out.

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