I wish they never did the PP system =(

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GT-Motion
I have taken long breaks from GT5, and everytime I come back the PP system just feels so broken it ruins my enjoyment. When we had it at power to weight ratio, it was awesome, I had so many competitive races.

Now though, I am in a race and I will either just burn past people or they burn past me like I cant drive worth a dam even though we both have max 550pp or whatever.

I know you can still do power to weight, but noone ever does.

I am probably the only one who feels this way too. haha
 
I know you can still do power to weight, but noone ever does.

I am probably the only one who feels this way too. haha

There's a very good reason as to why no one does Power/Weight anymore, the power limiter screws it up something fierce. Now, if they had the power limiter act like a restrictor plate or if it delivered a similar power curve when it wasn't limited then they'd be more popular. I do agree on the PP system being broken, but not NEARLY as broken as the Power/Weight setup is now.
 
Starking
There's a very good reason as to why no one does Power/Weight anymore, the power limiter screws it up something fierce. Now, if they had the power limiter act like a restrictor plate or if it delivered a similar power curve when it wasn't limited then they'd be more popular. I do agree on the PP system being broken, but not NEARLY as broken as the Power/Weight setup is now.

Yes, and power/weight doesn't take aerodynamis into account.
 
Yes, and power/weight doesn't take aerodynamis into account.

Well back when the game first came out power to weight made for some awesome races. Now the cars seem so unbalanced every race.

There's a very good reason as to why no one does Power/Weight anymore, the power limiter screws it up something fierce. Now, if they had the power limiter act like a restrictor plate or if it delivered a similar power curve when it wasn't limited then they'd be more popular. I do agree on the PP system being broken, but not NEARLY as broken as the Power/Weight setup is now.

They should have never added the power limiter it should just be your car has what parts it has and thats it, make it fit the power to weight.
 
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I find the PP system very useful in determining the relative performances of all my cars in my garage. Based on my research, a car with higher PP will almost always have better performance, as well as establish shorter lap times. It's also useful for car selection during races, as you can now easily determine whether or not your car can compete with the AI or online opponents.
 
There's a very good reason as to why no one does Power/Weight anymore, the power limiter screws it up something fierce. Now, if they had the power limiter act like a restrictor plate or if it delivered a similar power curve when it wasn't limited then they'd be more popular. I do agree on the PP system being broken, but not NEARLY as broken as the Power/Weight setup is now.

I fully agree. It's not that complex formulas are needed for a restrictor plate-like function, anyway.

Here's what I did with a very simple formula:
new_torque = old_torque - (rpm^2 / k)

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I think the pp system is good but needs some fine tuning. For example, the caterham, the pp on that car is seriously too high, the formula needs to be re thought or improved.
 
The power and weight system was always a broken way of setting up races, the only way that works is in one make races of the exact type of car. Seriously in real racing it's power, weight, aero and other dynamics which is why in racing you ever notice F1, Nascar, Super GT, DTM, V8 supercars they all tend to have regulations on cars to keep them as closely balanced as possible. None of that plain hp/weight limit nonsense you are talking about. PD needs to go over that power limiter thing since so many people have complaints about it but fact is they just need to pay attention a little more closely and they would notice that cars tend to still stay pretty much close to their performance advantages they had when they were stock. NSX, Lotus Elise and LFA still turn out to be seriously hard cars to defeat in the game when driven stock, so of course they will stay that way even with the power limiter. Thing is some cars tend to get a bit better, so they are closer to those cars so you have more cars to go up against them with.

I want someone to show me which cars have overwhelming advantages that the power limiter caused, that wasn't there before the limiter was added. Bet you can't actually find any, in fact the limiter just added more cars to use in a given PP class. PD aren't dumb, they set it up using torque, peak power if anyone cared to look. I tend to play this game a lot, and I have yet to find anything really different power limiter or not.

Now PD should add the option to disable using the power limiter in races, also add a more realistic restrictor plate approach. Which should be able to reduce power and torque dynamically. This would just mean that you would have higher peak power that way, would it not? You'd still have people complaining left right and center, because restrictor plates will still leave you needing ECU mapping and proper gear ratio settings. I hope PD adds ECU mapping to help people take advantage of their cars' power curve.
 
I find the PP system very useful in determining the relative performances of all my cars in my garage. Based on my research, a car with higher PP will almost always have better performance, as well as establish shorter lap times. It's also useful for car selection during races, as you can now easily determine whether or not your car can compete with the AI or online opponents.

Based on your research, a car with higher PP will perform better, and establish shorter lap times. Did I read that right? Something in here smells terribly obvious. 💡
 
The power and weight system was always a broken way of setting up races, the only way that works is in one make races of the exact type of car. Seriously in real racing it's power, weight, aero and other dynamics which is why in racing you ever notice F1, Nascar, Super GT, DTM, V8 supercars they all tend to have regulations on cars to keep them as closely balanced as possible. None of that plain hp/weight limit nonsense you are talking about.

In real life professional racing sure, they do aero mods on their "race cars", when using street cars without race modifications its just fine. Its the same as real life club racing. They have production cars but limit the tires and power/weight. The races we do in street cars would be just fine with power to weight, aerodynamics are barely even modeled in this game when it comes to the street cars.

Street cars power to weight is perfect.
 
In real life professional racing sure, they do aero mods on their "race cars", when using street cars without race modifications its just fine. Its the same as real life club racing. They have production cars but limit the tires and power/weight. The races we do in street cars would be just fine with power to weight, aerodynamics are barely even modeled in this game when it comes to the street cars.

Street cars power to weight is perfect.

Care to show how this is true? Last I checked aerodynamics are just as implemented as weight shifting, car dynamics are a sum of it's parts. Aerodynamics are very much part of the show, which is why when you add a spoiler you get an 8 to 10 point PP increase with only a rear spoiler. Stop driving around on those super sticky Racing Soft tires and you'll see how much aerodynamics affect your car at speed. I tune my cars to drive on sport tires and pretty much all have aerodynamics added for just a pinch more hold on the road.
 
Care to show how this is true? Last I checked aerodynamics are just as implemented as weight shifting, car dynamics are a sum of it's parts. Aerodynamics are very much part of the show, which is why when you add a spoiler you get an 8 to 10 point PP increase with only a rear spoiler. Stop driving around on those super sticky Racing Soft tires and you'll see how much aerodynamics affect your car at speed. I tune my cars to drive on sport tires and pretty much all have aerodynamics added for just a pinch more hold on the road.

The wing is about the only thing that adds pp because its programmed too, but I dont believe for a minute that they modeled custom aero performance for the shape of each car.

It doesn't matter either way. I just personally had a way better experience before the PP system.
 
Adamski15
I think the pp system is good but needs some fine tuning. For example, the caterham, the pp on that car is seriously too high, the formula needs to be re thought or improved.

Weight is given too much ....weight in the calculation....Torque is as well I think. Not enough consideration is made for weight balance (closer to 50/50 should have more pp applied) Not enough consideration for things like mr configuration either.
 
I have taken long breaks from GT5, and everytime I come back the PP system just feels so broken it ruins my enjoyment. When we had it at power to weight ratio, it was awesome, I had so many competitive races.

Now though, I am in a race and I will either just burn past people or they burn past me like I cant drive worth a dam even though we both have max 550pp or whatever.

I know you can still do power to weight, but noone ever does.

I am probably the only one who feels this way too. haha

Some things that I've noticed:

Nearly every time, a car with mild power reduction to get down to a PP limit will be faster than one built up to the limit.

There are some car performance metrics that aren't taken into consideration and honestly can't be. An NSX or Lotus built to the same PP as a GT-R or a Corvette for example, will always win, all things being equal. Well, no.. not equal, all drivers being good. If all drivers are equally bad, then bet on the GT-R.

I think there are sweet spots and car builds that are more balanced than others. I think there are certain Kei cars that blow away the competition in their PP class. I imagine the same is true at the higher end of the PP range. Try something other than racing tires and try PP limits that center around tuned street cars and not racing cars. You might have more luck finding closer races.

As I tell my children, don't whine, be solution oriented.
 
I fully agree. It's not that complex formulas are needed for a restrictor plate-like function, anyway.

The perfect solution just like Akira said. should be whole RPM decrease torque.

Current Power limiter just like RPM Limiter (But without Red Zone limit... Looks stupid). Also... Current Power limiter may suitable for range race. BUT, GT5 didn't issued any Colling problem about engine, that useless.

I think the pp system is good but needs some fine tuning. For example, the caterham, the pp on that car is seriously too high, the formula needs to be re thought or improved.

If Power Limiter didn't change, this still means nothing.
 
The wing is about the only thing that adds pp because its programmed too, but I dont believe for a minute that they modeled custom aero performance for the shape of each car.

It doesn't matter either way. I just personally had a way better experience before the PP system.

You don't have to model custom aero, you just need the aero coefficient of each car and plug it in to the aero system. Never noticed that some cars slow down a heck of a lot faster when out of slip stream than others? That's not just lack of power but aerodynamics higher the coefficient the faster you slow down or slower you continue to accelerate at speed.

Weight is given too much ....weight in the calculation....Torque is as well I think. Not enough consideration is made for weight balance (closer to 50/50 should have more pp applied) Not enough consideration for things like mr configuration either.

You are incorrect, weight balance is factored in and 50/50 is not optimal for every car type it depends on the cars overall balancing and engine placement. FR cars are better with a 50/50, not all but most, MR cars tend to like it 45/55 and greater as do RR. Weight balance is very much a part of the calculations, why else would they allow you to shift the weight around the car? I can guarantee you that driving a RR car with the weight split 40/60 which might be higher for PP, but keeping that thing under control will make you swear that it's worse than it's rating. Just remember that driveability is partially subjective as some drivers can handle RR cars with ease while others struggle, not all about the numbers at times, sometimes its just what works for you.

A lot of people don't read the graph well, relatively level torque curves are usually great as you have nice power across the entire powerband. A lot of cars tend to have mid power torque and then it peaks early and drops off sharply but problem with GT5 graph it doesn't show redline you have to remember where it is or just look over to the side and click on the stats tab. ECU tuning and restrictor plates in tandem would work wonderfully to alleviate most of the power restriction and gearing problems we have right now. Time will tell if PD will give us that and lose the power limiter(cuts power down but leaves torque impossibly high).
 
The PP system, in combination with the power limiter gives more flexibility for car choice in online rooms. I think the system has its faults, (certain cars receive too many/little performance points for their real performance) but I would rather have it instead of a power/weight ratio. It's better to have a choice of variety in an online room than exact fairness. After all, half the game is up to the driver :sly:
 
They should have never added the power limiter it should just be your car has what parts it has and thats it, make it fit the power to weight.

The Power Limiter and Weight ballast are great ideas, the only issue is PD couldn't implement the power limiter at all. Even if it just scaled the Power/Torque curve that'd be 1000x better then what we currently have. Before we had PP and limiting the rooms themselves were good, the only issue was everything was so limiting, the cars you could and couldn't use made it very annoying. Set a rating of 1200kg and 350HP and there were cars that got right at the limit and pretty much destroyed everything. The ballast/limiting helped, but sadly you might as well fully tune your car and just limit it to 350HP so you have 350HP from 4000 to 8000 RPMs. What really needs to be done is being able to use both PP and Power/Weight settings and fixing the Power Limiter. That'd make online a whole lot better.
 
PP is in general a good indicator of a cars performance.

An idea I had was if it had an "Auto Level" option where it would auto level all cars in the room to exact same aero, power, torque and weight, with only suspension and gearing changeable then its the tune and driver that wins not the car.
Plus you could use any car in that particular range and not have a room full of M3's and NSX's!
 
I do not enjoy the 'PP' system either, along with the useless level system and the non-required licenses'.
 
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Id like to be able to pick cars to let in the race, and not just the cars on the recomened list. Then you could set a PP limit or pwr/kg ratio and eliminate those "dominating" cars from the list.
 
I think PP racing is a great idea. It gives users a wider range of options rather than limiting your power and weight.
 
The moment adjustable parts like suspension or a gearbox are added, there is no way at all at judging the competitiveness of a certain car.

There's hardly any way to overcome this other than join a couple of friends and to spec races.
 
I think the PP system in general works well. I immediately know what sort of performance to expect from 500pp cars, 550pp, 450pp etc.

The only problem is the fact that light cars get thrown out really quickly as when you go below 800kg the cars just get raped with PP. My Ginetta G4 get's more than 500pp and it has 90hp! How the hell are you supposed to beat any 500pp car with 90hp?
 
I also think it is broken.

Why does aerodynamics have to play a roll in this?

That is just the car, keep it out and do power to weight.
 
My problem with the system is that there are no defined brackets or levels, for online racing. In that 'other' game I build cars to a level and know that all online races will be to those levels so I can race fairly evenly with a car for that level.

With the PP system there are no levels so online races can be anything. 350PP, 401PP, 430PP, 500PP, 511PP. You get the idea. How on earth are you supposed to have a car ready for each PP value?
 
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