Ideas how to fix GTS FFB

[Haitauer]

I wonder if this community could help PDI fix the FFB in Gran Turismo Sport. If we gather all feedback and ideas of improvement for PDI to process.

If you have comments like "its crap" or "not good", keep them to your self. Im looking for comments on specific effects. Something like wheel should lighten and pull left when losing traction in a right hand corner going over curb. (just an example not an actual effect here)

Ie. What should the wheel do acceleratin straight/while turning in a ff/rwd/4wd?

Feel free to analyze effets games with good ffb have in certain situations. Ffb is always a matter of taste, but i havent found a soul who actually likes the current ffb in GTS.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

We could help them by sending a copy of Assetto Corsa and have them study that.

 

[Haitauer]

We could help them by sending a copy of Assetto Corsa and have them study that.

Which im sure they have already done.

But we need comments with some actual content. Do people here have a clue why some games have good ffb and what makes them good? I assume this level of simracers should be able to put a finger on it - as they say.

 

[John G]

FFB has to be driven by the physics model. I think the GTS problem is physics first and FFB as a result. Therefore fundamentally difficult to 'fix'

 

[fastone371]

Did we all forget the last time PD "fixed" something and "gave" (cornholed?) us 1.15????

First thing is that I think one person (or better yet, many) would have to try all the wheels supported by GTS to see how each brand reacts to the game and the various settings. I assume the T-GT feels different than the CSL which feel different than Logitech??

 

[Slapped]

I'm on a G29, apparently one of the worst wheels for GTS' FFB. That said I've noticed that there are a lot of details in the feedback, but the problem is you need your FFB strength on 1 and FFB sensitivity on 10 to feel them, and even then they are at a very very low "volume". This setup is way too light for me, and probably for just about everybody else as well, and as soon as you up the FFB strength to 2 or more the details are simply drowned out.

FFB has to be driven by the physics model. I think the GTS problem is physics first and FFB as a result. Therefore fundamentally difficult to 'fix'

I agree, but I don't think the whole blame can be laid at the feet of GTS' physics, a lot of the blame IMO lies with the artificially smooth tracks in GTS - something I noticed PD was doing back in the days of GT4 where the only track you'd get rumble out of the DS2 was the Nordschleife.

 

[superwally]

I'm on a G29, apparently one of the worst wheels for GTS' FFB. That said I've noticed that there are a lot of details in the feedback, but the problem is you need your FFB strength on 1 and FFB sensitivity on 10 to feel them, and even then they are at a very very low "volume". This setup is way too light for me, and probably for just about everybody else as well, and as soon as you up the FFB strength to 2 or more the details are simply drowned out.



I agree, but I don't think the whole blame can be laid at the feet of GTS' physics, a lot of the blame IMO lies with the artificially smooth tracks in GTS - something I noticed PD was doing back in the days of GT4 where the only track you'd get rumble out of the DS2 was the Nordschleife.

Not sure about the other stuff, but 1/10 is the setup I've been using also. The step from 1 to 2 is too large, and the subsequent steps don't result in much change as you say, it just gets harder to turn the wheel. This setup is light but usable for me, but I don't like heavy FFB anyway, I'm driving, not building muscle.

I think PD should have also mapped each car with a 'stock' FFB and Sensitivity setting, instead of using the player's default setup from the options menu. I've found there is a sweet spot for many cars, it's not always intuitive and finding it takes patience.

I now have a few hours on a Thrustmaster T-GT, it's impressive with GT Sport, with outstanding and highly detailed FFB regardless of stiffness setting. I think PD made GTS for this wheel-it has a 'Depth Feeback' system that even direct drive wheels don't have. In a way this may have compromised the FFB on other wheels, these signals would have to be transmitted some other way...or not at all.

 

[VBR]

We could help them by sending a copy of Assetto Corsa and have them study that.

When I first tried AC the FFB reminded me of GT6. I think the physics & FFB in GT6 were way better than GT Sport, so maybe they should revert to them as a kind of fix.

 

[Slapped]

I now have a few hours on a Thrustmaster T-GT, it's impressive with GT Sport, with outstanding and highly detailed FFB regardless of stiffness setting. I think PD made GTS for this wheel-it has a 'Depth Feeback' system that even direct drive wheels don't have. In a way this may have compromised the FFB on other wheels, these signals would have to be transmitted some other way...or not at all.

I‘m sure the T-GT is all it‘s cracked up to be on GT Sport, but from my own personal viewpoint I‘m not spending $800 or so for a wheel to connect to a $400 box (and that‘s if you have the PS4 Pro) to run a $50 game. And then it appears that it’s only a T-GT when used GTS - when used with anthing else it‘s basically a slightly better Thrustmaster 300.

If i‘m going to go to that kind of money then I‘ll get a gaming PC with PC2 and AC and whatever else is good and go Fanatec all the way.

The truth is, however, that I actually really enjoy GTS with the G29 despite the lack of FFB detail.

 

[david harding]

I wonder if this community could help PDI fix the FFB in Gran Turismo Sport. If we gather all feedback and ideas of improvement for PDI to process.

If you have comments like "its crap" or "not good", keep them to your self. Im looking for comments on specific effects. Something like wheel should lighten and pull left when losing traction in a right hand corner going over curb. (just an example not an actual effect here)

Ie. What should the wheel do acceleratin straight/while turning in a ff/rwd/4wd?

Feel free to analyze effets games with good ffb have in certain situations. Ffb is always a matter of taste, but i havent found a soul who actually likes the current ffb in GTS.

Would be nice if they took the too much, too strong, totally out of place vibration away from the t300 when going round a bend or corner. If this didn't register in the brains of the people developing the ffb for this game I give up.

 

[superwally]

I‘m sure the T-GT is all it‘s cracked up to be on GT Sport, but from my own personal viewpoint I‘m not spending $800 or so for a wheel to connect to a $400 box (and that‘s if you have the PS4 Pro) to run a $50 game. And then it appears that it’s only a T-GT when used GTS - when used with anthing else it‘s basically a slightly better Thrustmaster 300.

If i‘m going to go to that kind of money then I‘ll get a gaming PC with PC2 and AC and whatever else is good and go Fanatec all the way.

The truth is, however, that I actually really enjoy GTS with the G29 despite the lack of FFB detail.

As usual the mere mention of the TGT sends people off on rants about AC, PC games and Fanatec, you just can't contain yourselves!

I have no issues with the G29, it's a good wheel for the price and FFB can be quite good if you take the time to set it up for each car...which is what I already said.

You'd need triple the $800 (full TGT retail, I paid $450 for mine new in the box on ebay) to buy a gaming PC, a nice Fanatec wheel, and 'whatever else is good' for driving games. I fail to see how spending used car money on a gaming PC and accessories somehow makes better financial sense than a $550 wheel upgrade that brings GTS fully to life.

I am not recommending the TGT, but even a cursory look at the way the 300 and TGT are made would tell you they have little in common. The internet has rendered an opinion, and you appear obligated to repeat it. I made a very simple statement-the TGT has amazingly detailed FFB in GTS, and I think it compromised FFB implementation for other wheels.

Is that clear? Can we get back on topic?

 

[vvise]

I'm not sure what needs to be done because my experience with wheels is limited. But at least in GT:Sport and my G29, I found the FFB was way more useful when I enabled CSA. All of a sudden I get much more feedback in the wheel.

 

[fastone371]

As usual the mere mention of the TGT sends people off on rants about AC, PC games and Fanatec, you just can't contain yourselves!

I have no issues with the G29, it's a good wheel for the price and FFB can be quite good if you take the time to set it up for each car...which is what I already said.

You'd need triple the $800 (full TGT retail, I paid $450 for mine new in the box on ebay) to buy a gaming PC, a nice Fanatec wheel, and 'whatever else is good' for driving games. I fail to see how spending used car money on a gaming PC and accessories somehow makes better financial sense than a $550 wheel upgrade that brings GTS fully to life.

I am not recommending the TGT, but even a cursory look at the way the 300 and TGT are made would tell you they have little in common. The internet has rendered an opinion, and you appear obligated to repeat it. I made a very simple statement-the TGT has amazingly detailed FFB in GTS, and I think it compromised FFB implementation for other wheels.

Is that clear? Can we get back on topic?

I was all ready to buy the T-GT, the one and only reason I didn't is because I discovered Fanatec which will also work on my XBOX ONE and my PC besides PS Pro. People always complain about spending a few extra bucks on something but I have 3 X BOX's I think and 4 Playstations, many of you probably have the same but they don't complain about the game deck with capabilities to play the latest games with great graphics. If you look at your GTS profile and the hours you have spent driving so far and also add the hours that you will continue to play GTS in the future it probably adds up to pretty cheap entertainment. Just sayin.

 

[Haitauer]

I'm not sure what needs to be done because my experience with wheels is limited. But at least in GT:Sport and my G29, I found the FFB was way more useful when I enabled CSA. All of a sudden I get much more feedback in the wheel.

I have also noticed this shortly after launch, but wouldnt want to use and cant use aids in online lobbys always.

 

[vvise]

I have also noticed this shortly after launch, but wouldnt want to use and cant use aids in online lobbys always.

Yeah its the only aid I use and honestly most of the reason why is because of the extra feedback.

 

[Winnie847]

Would be nice if they took the too much, too strong, totally out of place vibration away from the t300 when going round a bend or corner. If this didn't register in the brains of the people developing the ffb for this game I give up.

That's the game telling you that you're losing traction. Try letting up on the throttle or your turning angle. Not only should the vibration go away/lessen, but you should be faster as well.

 

[Corsa]

They would have a lot of code to change from the physics, tire model and their calculated FFB model.

None of that they will touch because of potential player (revenue) loss by making the game "more hard", or as I prefer more in depth.
Most GT players would not like to hear they need a wheel profiler or have to fine tune car specific FFB mulitpliers.

But you asked for specifics, and this applies to all except those that have DD wheels.

Issues occur in the low end forces known as Initial FFB deadzone which causes a complete looseness in the force initially, which affects your performance mostly in the slow speed corners.
They also occur in the high end forces known as FFB clipping which causes the wheel to max out at 100% too early which affects your performance mostly in the fast speed corners.

At the basic level we have to be able to adjust deadzone, spring and dampening settings for initial force.
FFB clipping could be solved with a car specific multiplier that would allow you to leave your parent settings alone and quickly fine tune the "rack" force right next to say, your camber options.

I think they need to work on that physics mo... Nah They're producing the highest selling racing game in the world so maybe they need to change nothing?