I'm seriously considering giving up this whole "car" thing.

[FoolKiller]

Ya know....I'm kinda getting tired of this anti-motorcyclest junk you guys keep spouting. You think that most people that swing a leg over the saddle must eventually be doing something illegal. I'm positive that everyday all of you may see hundreds of motorcyclests observing the law in every aspect. Do we here you comment on that?!...Heck no! All we here is the one time you had a jerk blast past you. Stop giving us your "I saw this one guy" stories and stick to the question at hand. Or why don't you at least add your "I saw 50 bikes today doing the speed limit and wearing all his gear" stories. [/get off your soap box]

Um....was that directed at me? Because I did give the example of my co-worker who did do everything correctly as reasoning for him to get the bike.

If someone asked about ricing out their car I would tell them to go for it, but not to street race.

Maybe I'm getting old, but it occurs to me that I sound more and more like my mother.

 

[Venari]

Let's just say all the nutters riding 'bikes naked like there's no tomorrow are exceptions. That's their decision.

Now, let's take your average car/SUV driver.

Honestly.

Come on.

Are they really that good?

There are plenty of stats out there regarding motorcylcle accidents to realise they aren't. And you know it yourself from your friend.

If you're going to buy a 'bike, get good leathers with hard or semi-hard armour (Hein Gericke type), consider a back protector in addition, then learn to ride properly and take heed of the tuition you get which teaches you anticipation- I've done advanced and performance driving courses for my job, and they taught me so much, I am considering buying more tuition personally. When I get a motorcycle (note when, not if; I'm 33yo and I've got the lid and leathers already) I shall be listening to everything those instructors say, then I'll be going back to more instructors, and seeing what they say.

And then. when the first dick (or dickette) in a Range Rover comes within 2 feet of me at anything more than 10 mph I'm going to pray, and if it doesn't turn nasty, I'm consider taking the plates off it, turn it into a trackday tool, and learn to ride it really well.

Take care, be safe - and all you car drivers out there, think bike!

[Public information film ends. Why not try a pizza from Joe's just 2 minutes from this cinema!]

V.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Um....was that directed at me? Because I did give the example of my co-worker who did do everything correctly as reasoning for him to get the bike.

Only in a minor way compared to others. I'll give you credit for giving an example of both sides but you still couldn't resist perpetuating an overall impression of cyclists that isn't as accurate. For every one you see behaving badly I am positive that there are thousands that are not. A one to one example still isn't true in anyway shape or form. Sorry you’re the one I am dragging my soap box out on. I will begin to defend all motorcyclists from the unfortunate few from now on. Let the word be known that I and the millions of bikers across the world will not take the bad mouthing anymore because of a few jerks out on the road.

 

[Sage]

Um, I don’t really see anything in here that would constitute bashing of motorcyclists themselves (FK just said don’t drive stupid, which is sound advice for car drivers too, and he said “responsible motorcyclists go years without a problem&#8221. I don’t see anybody in here saying that cyclists are reckless or anything like that – all of our concerns have been around self-protection and practicality.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Oh yeah... this thread will be entertaining. Anyway, Call me a wus... Call me... a scaredecat... I don't care what "savings" there are, but I CHOOSE LIFE.

I want you alive so keep using your car...even if it is more expensive
Just keep in mind that with the bike you can die even if you are driving at 10mph and being the best driver in the world.

I hate motorcycles.

Toronado, just don't turn into the asshats I see on the LIE all the time.... One guy did a stand up wheelie going 90 miles an hour up a hill..... he wasn't wearing a helmet.

Even if you're going 0mph you are still at risk at death more so then in a car. No protection whatsoever.

Make sure you fill in the organ donor card....

And don't forget that they'll pull the common sense, road traffic law knowledge and humility centres of your brain the second you get onto the damn thing.

A friend I know is good friends with a guy who used to go riding who thought jeans would do, he came off his bike and his knee scraped along the floor for about 100 yards. There was a trail of blood and bone most of the distance and he had no kneecap left, it had been completely removed bit by bit in the slide.

I don't like motorcycles, personally.*snip* but don't be like the guy that blew past me yesterday when I was a already doing 80 mph

Um, I don’t really see anything in here that would constitute bashing of motorcyclists themselves.

Nope...Me neither

 

[Sage]

Other than Mista Kellah’s and Famine’s comments, none of those were saying that motorcyclists themselves are reckless – they were all pointing out that it’s intrinsically riskier to ride a motorcycle than drive a car, and you have to agree that that’s a perfectly fair assessment (it’s like telling someone that it’s better to be in a Mercedes S-class in a crash than a Mazda Miata – it’s true, despite how much I love Maiata). I repeat, other than those two, none are commenting on motorcyclist behavior, which seems to me what you’re angry about.

 

[UnoMOTO]

All those things put together don't equal the anti-motorcyclist junk that I said in my first rant?

 

[TopHat]

I never said that ALL cyclists are jerks, I just see alot of them on the Long Island Expressway. But then again, no one can drive out here.

My dads best friend rides a motorcycle never seen him doing stupid things...

I don't think that you'd be like that Toronado.

Just keep safe.

 

[Kent]

As some of you may know, I rarely, if ever, drive my Blazer. I use it to go places more than 10 miles away, which happens maybe once every two weeks. So, I'm thinking about getting a motorcycle licence and a motorcycle, for all of the benefits it has:

1. Much better with gas.
2. Irresponsibly faster.
3. Cheaper to run.
4. Cheaper to insure.
5. Way cooler than a Blazer.
6. Cheap to buy.
   

Against that, I have only a few detriments:

1. Less safe.
2. Irresponsibly faster.
3. Can't ride it in winter.
4. Less space for stuff.

So, my question is, what do the members of the Planet think about my revelation? Any suggestions about possible bikes to look at? I wanna have my permit by the end of summer, and I've been thinking about an old Kawasaki Ninja/ZXR400 or a Honda Rebel or RVF400. I want something lightweight and relatively small engined, but it doesn't have to be a sport bike, really.

Gas 👍
Insurance 👍
Maintainance 👍 (only if you do the work)
Cooler 👍
Cost 👍 / 👎 (you can get cheap cars too)
Comfort 👍 / 👎
Faster 👍 / 👎
Rain 👎
Cold 👎
Passengers 👎 (2 people riding at most)
Storage 👎
Danger 👎

Danger and inconvenience are the big drawbacks... Fun and economy are the big perks.

While the perks and most of the drawbacks are great to discuss, the "Danger" drawback is horrible. No matter how responsible you are or how well skilled you are, Motorcycles are more dangerous because they offer no protection to the rider.
With the sort of incidents I'm thinking about "Protection" is a matter of life .vs. death (or "vegetable" state).

Btw, I love to ride any bike I can get my hands on! 👍

 

[Sage]

All those things put together don't equal the anti-motorcyclist junk that I said in my first rant?

No, I don’t think so. What I see are a lot of people who care about Toronado and are just warning him to be careful, and it (unfortunately) just so happens that the easiest way to do that is with anecdotes of what happens when you’re not careful. What you see as motorcycle bashing, I see as concern for another human being (maybe unsolicited concern, yes, but concern nonetheless). Nobody’s telling him not to ride; they’re just telling him to think about it and make sure it’s what he really wants.

And for the record, I do think I’m being impartial about this, because I love motorcycles and I’ve always wanted one myself (I don’t only because it doesn’t suit me in practicality).

 

[Gil]

But for all of those talking about organ donation and what not, please stop. I personally knew someone who died on a bicyle just recently, and I don't find that funny. I'm aware of the risks all too well, and I'm also quite aware that in car vs. bike car wins. My father was and is aware of the risks, and he doesn't think that anything could hurt when I'm essentially going to be riding it to and from school.
@ Gil: I am pretty sure I couldn't afford to insure a Miata, and Geo Metros are simply something I refuse to drive.

I am a registered nurse, and when I'm talking about organ donation, I AM NOT JOKING or looking for laughs. I am also not trying to offend, any of you that choose to ride motorcycles...
That said;

I currently work in the field of Kidney Dialysis. The happiest series of events leading up to an organ donation, is someone getting a kidney from a living relative, or other compatible person.
However, the most common source of organs, by far, is Motorcyclists involved in fatal MVA's, then other death by trauma victims.
This is America, and you are free to do what you will.
You are even free to disregard good, well-intentioned advice.
I used to ride when I was a lot younger, and a lot more invincible.
But in my profession, I've seen and heard just enough on the survivor's side to never put another motorcycle under my own ass.
That often colors my advice and judgement.

If the motorcycle had never existed, and was newly invented today, I truly believe the NHTSA wouldn't let them on the road.

 

[Famine]

There's always only so much you can do. A rollcage and 5-point racing harness might do a better job of protecting me in my car, but I think I'll take my chances with the normal seatbelt and no cage for the sake of convenience.

If I wanted to be as safe as possible I'd just stay home.

That's not really a direct comparison. Jeans will shred if you come off your bike, to the point that you may as well have not been wearing anything at all. If you're riding, leathers are an essential every bit as much as the helmet for basic protection. Leathers & helmet on a bike = Seatbelt in a car.


UnoMOTO - personal experience has shown me that, while a larger number of drivers are just plain crap, a larger proportion of motorcyclists are. If I drove like I saw the majority of motorcyclists ride, I'd have crashed more times than I care to imagine.

On a bike you are far more vulnerable (40 times more likely to die each year, and of the order of 200 times more likely to die per mile, than a car driver) - I'm sure you already know this. But many bikers insist on riding beyond the remit of road traffic laws and indeed common sense. And then blame cars - "cagers", to them - for causing bike accidents.


I'm not anti-motorcyclist - but the minority who do it responsibly tend to get lost amongst the majority of lunatics.

 

[Orion]

Gas 👍
Insurance 👍
Maintainance 👍 (only if you do the work)
Cooler 👍
Cost 👍 / 👎 (you can get cheap cars too)
Comfort 👍 / 👎
Faster 👍 / 👎
Rain 👎
Cold 👎
Passengers 👎 (2 people riding at most)
Storage 👎
Danger 👎

Danger and inconvenience are the big drawbacks... Fun and economy are the big perks.

While the perks and most of the drawbacks are great to discuss, the "Danger" drawback is horrible. No matter how responsible you are or how well skilled you are, Motorcycles are more dangerous because they offer no protection to the rider.
With the sort of incidents I'm thinking about "Protection" is a matter of life .vs. death (or "vegetable" state).

Btw, I love to ride any bike I can get my hands on! 👍

This is what can happen to you on a Motorcycle. TRY NOT TO LAUGH!!

Who cares about dangerous? Look at NASCAR, F1, Rally and Motorcycle races. NASCAR have people burning to death, while F1's are just Go Karts on steroids, and motorcycles have no protection, they can cause worse injury, if they land on you when you crash. And Rallying is just dangerous, and dangerous is fun.

CNG

 

[Joey D]

Motorcycles aren't all that dangerous if you just use your head. I mean ya if I was doing wheelstands at 90mph it would put my life in jeopardy. If you ride safe you'll be fine, sure there is an off chance you might get hit by another vehicle but if you are alert you will be able to avoid more collisions.

Everything has a chance to kill you, if you fear death you'll just fear life.

Anyway Logan, if you do end up getting a bike be sure and take a rider's safety course and get all the proper equipment. If you do that you won't really have any issues as long as you don't a.) buy to much of a bike for your first cycle or b.) do anything bone headed. But I'm sure you'll be just fine.

Oh and I was looking through cycle trader and you can find used Viragos that are a couple years old for $1500.

 

[Omnis]

You could always buy a motortrike...

 

[Famine]

Who cares about dangerous? Look at NASCAR

Motorsport, controlled environment.

F1

Motorsport, controlled environment.

Rally

Motorsport, controlled environment.

Motorcycle races

Motorsport, controlled environment.

and dangerous is fun.

But behaving like an idiot on the public roads because "dangerous is fun"...

 

[Mrs. Famine]

You can't cite examples of motorsport here because as Famine already mentioned, it's a controlled environment. AND you already know that by participating in motorsport, you're putting yourself at a higher risk of injury/death than you are by going out for a pootle on the public highway.

I'm quite torn with the whole motorcycle idea - on the one hand being on the back of a bike, for a thrillseeker like myself really is brilliant. And you're guaranteed to get there quicker (by riding sensibly, you can still get there in reasonable time without putting yourself at risk). However, the downside is if you crash, then you're probably going to be dead/rendered paraplegic/seriously injured. The chances of crashing and being injured are higher because put simply, you don't have the protection a car driver does. A car doesn't fall over. I'm also a (well, almost) registered nurse and having worked in a spinal injuries unit and also A+E, the desire to have a bike of my own keeps being overturned by the things i've witnessed and the people i've nursed.

I have a Mazda MX-5. I don't need a bike

 

[TheCracker]

Bikes do offer a hell of a lot of performance for the cost (0-100 in under 6 seconds for £5k) but have the massive disadvantage of being practically invisible to most car drivers. Plenty of people die or are seriously injured by doing something stupid on their bikes - I'm sure just as many suffer the same by drivers hitting them or pulling out in front of them where they are totally innocent. Someone pulls out infront of you when you are behind the wheel and you end up with damaged body work. On a bike you'll get launched into the road and possibly into the path of another car.

I'd love to own a bike myself, but i owe it to my family not to. You can of course be killed in a car too, but for me you are relying too much on other road users for your safety when you ride a bike. And that's a risk i'm not willing to take.

 

[Duke]

All those things put together don't equal the anti-motorcyclist junk that I said in my first rant?

No, I don't think they do. I think you're being a bit oversensitive. The two that Sage indicated are direct comments about motorcycle riders, agreed. The others are all comments about the inherent dangers of riding a motorcycle - and one of the largest dangers is idiots in cars. I fail to see how the rest of those are attacks on riders.

In an accident - no matter what the cause - you're inherently safer with a ton and a half of steel cage around you than you are flying through the air with a helmet and a leather jacket around you. No matter how much you like motorcycles, there's no way you can logically deny that.

 

[UnoMOTO]

No, I don't think they do. I think you're being a bit oversensitive. The two that Sage indicated are direct comments about motorcycle riders, agreed. The others are all comments about the inherent dangers of riding a motorcycle - and one of the largest dangers is idiots in cars. I fail to see how the rest of those are attacks on riders.

In an accident - no matter what the cause - you're inherently safer with a ton and a half of steel cage around you than you are flying through the air with a helmet and a leather jacket around you. No matter how much you like motorcycles, there's no way you can logically deny that.

I was never trying to say that I don't think you are safer in a car. I'll check back in my posts to make sure that wasn't my argument.

By all means this isn't the first thread since I have been here that someone mentions a motorcycle only to be followed by multiple "your going to eventually die" type of comments. We get it already don't you think? blah blah blah...We've all seen a jerk doing a wheelie down the freeway. This is not representative of most motorcyclists as Famines personal experience would have him believe. It’s too bad that the area of the world he lives in perpetuates that perception. I am a motorcycle nut and rubber neck at every bike I see and I have not seen one single jerk in many months. In my world it’s in the range of thousands to one bad apple.

Thank you Duke for pointing out that the highest percentage of motorcycle deaths occur because of an "idiot in a car" turns left in front of a motorcycle. Maybe the thing that has to change to increase motorcycle safety is you all in cages and not the behavior of motorcyclists.

I would also like to apologize to Toronado for hi-jacking his thread for my rant. Not that I have to say it but I would support your purchasing of a motorcycle. I live in Colorado and find time to ride even during the winter months. Riding makes just getting from A to B fun. You will enjoy it without a doubt.

 

[Jim Prower]

Most of the motorcyclists around here ride Harleys. Go figure. Midwest.

I'll agree that motorcycles are probably more dangerous than cars are. I disagree, to a point, about the "turn Left in front of a motorcycle" thing. Yes, it's a risk...on a bike, OR in a car. People make left turns in front of anything. Even freight trains. A bike may be more dangerous, simply because it's smaller and harder to see, especially with the sun to the rider's front, where turning the headlight on has a negligible effect.

I wouldn't go for sportbikes other than trackdays, they look uncomfortable to ride, and not that practical. I'd say after a 250CC starter, you go after a cruiser, which looks a bit more comfy to ride. I'm pretty sure saddlebag capicity would be better, too. Also a little heavier, and tends to get a little more respect than a sportbike. I guess that's because more riders tend to be the older, better educated, more responsible type, though there's the "bad boy" Harley thing. Might wanna go with a Japanese bike...

The Honda Goldwing, I've seen quite a few locally, they have a large following, and, I'd imagine, would be great, practical bikes for those who have a bit of experience handling motorcycles. Lots of storage, one passenger, guaranteed. I'd imagine a bit thirstier than most, but less so than a Civic. also pretty heavy.

By the way, the more responsible you are, the more respect you'll tend to get from drivers. I think "Defensive Driving" is much, much more important on a Motorcycle.

 

[Famine]

We've all seen a jerk doing a wheelie down the freeway.

I haven't.

This is not representative of most motorcyclists as Famines personal experience would have him believe. It’s too bad that the area of the world he lives in perpetuates that perception.

I saw two motorcyclists in 12 miles today. One was passing, at speed, between two moving vehicles in adjacent lanes (overtaking on the left is technically illegal under UK law, forming a line of three vehicles abreast while moving is not but is contrary to Roadcraft), before cutting in at the last second over chevrons (illegal and dangerous at that distance). The other was pulling away from me while I was doing the-speed-limit-within-ACPO-guidelines.

I saw about 5 cars driving badly (not observing, crossing the dividing line with oncoming vehicles, excessive speed twice) from a total of around 100 vehicles.

Number of cars breaking road traffic laws: 5
Number of motorbikes breaking road traffic laws: 2
Proportion of cars breaking road traffic laws: ~5%
Proportion of motorbikes breaking road traffic laws: 100%

I am a motorcycle nut and rubber neck at every bike I see

Better to look ahead at the "idiot in a car" turning left with his turn signals on that you hadn't seen because you were rubbernecking.

Thank you Duke for pointing out that the highest percentage of motorcycle deaths occur because of an "idiot in a car" turns left in front of a motorcycle. Maybe the thing that has to change to increase motorcycle safety is you all in cages and not the behavior of motorcyclists.

It's interesting that in car/anything other than a car collisions, the car is to blame. I don't doubt for a second that many - even most - serious bike accidents are caused by a car and a bike trying to occupy the same place at the same time. Most car accidents are as well. But you'd think that, being aware of this and their own vulnerability to serious injury in the event of a collision, and that bikes cannot turn or stop as efficiently as cars, bikers would ride more sensibly and be aware of cars trying to occupy the same space as them. Funny that half of the bikers I saw today were putting themselves in the firing line of "idiot car drivers" with their erratic riding...

 

[UnoMOTO]

Does that Brit on the bike become a sensible driver when he gets into a car? You really have to second guess the mind of the person not the mode of transportation. Stop blaming the bike and or car and make the individual responsible for his actions.

 

[kikie]

I sold my motorcycle after having a serious accident. My passenger was seriously hurt and almost lost his right leg. He recently bought a Ducati S4R and I sold mine (not a Ducati).

I never want to have a motorcycle again.

 

[Famine]

Does that Brit on the bike become a sensible driver when he gets into a car? You really have to second guess the mind of the person not the mode of transportation. Stop blaming the bike and or car and make the individual responsible for his actions.

As I indeed have.

Funny that half of the bikers I saw today were putting themselves in the firing line of "idiot car drivers" with their erratic riding...

 

[UnoMOTO]

And today I have seen zero Of I'm guessing ten bikes I saw on the way to work doing anything illegal. What do you want to do now? Which one of us can say what the majority of biker behavior really is?

 

[Famine]

And today I have seen zero Of I'm guessing ten bikes I saw on the way to work doing anything illegal. What do you want to do now? Which one of us can say what the majority of biker behavior really is?

Your observations are valid for your region. My observations are valid for my region. There are many reasons why they could differ (types of bikes available, age of bikers, compulsory training level) since we don't even live in the same country...

 

[Jim Prower]

I'll back up that most of the guys in my region are fairly responsible, but, seeing as how young men like to ride sportbikes, and often don't get the proper training, well, most of the accident reports involving motorcycles around here involve a young man on a sportbike.

I'm sure Toronado is very responsible, and could handle a sportbike well once he gets used to a motorcycle, but, aside from the stigma you get from drivers, and, sometimes, other riders (seen some of that Harley apparel?) they're uncomfortable, somewhat unstable, and not very practical motorcycles.

Another thing...we have one of the stupidest lobbyist groups in our state, they won't let us pass a Helmet Law...so many riders can get away with it, and do all the time. I see quite a few riders, mostly either the harleys or a kid on a sportbike, without helmets.

 

[GT_Jim]

I didn't read through all the posts but I have to say something again. Someone said 'the bikes are not dangerous if you use your head' or something like this.

Ok man. You are waiting for the traffic light to get green and a crazy driver turns with no control and crashes into you. You are dead. If you had a car you would just break an arm or something.


edit: I'd also like to add that I don't have anything against bikes, I like them [that's why I bought tourist trophy] but I'm almost sure I will never buy a bike.

 

[Tornado]

The thread having been hijacked, I would like to say that I personally don't plan on doing much of anything that would thrust me into danger. I don't plan on wheelie-ing down the highway, I don't plan on swerving in between cars, and I certainly don't plan on exceeding the speed limit just because I can.
I have only ever enjoyed speeding once ever, and that was Dad's Neon. Riding passenger on the Honda Shadow he used to own, he took it up to 90. It terrified me, and I don't plan on doing anything of the sort any time soon, especially not behind the wheel of a vehcle with an undoubtably lighter mass and less planted nature.