Immigration

  • Thread starter KSaiyu
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Hmmmm I wouldn't say that.
Well, okay, all is perhaps an exaggeration but I certainly know of three member nations that have done so when I was on their soil spanning from the late 70s to late 90s.

EDIT: I also see the trend in people here on this site, quite recently.
 
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There is a common failing I have noticed in how member nations deal with people from elsewhere - they all seem to assume that everyone does things the same way as they themselves do.

All assume that incoming will follow the local rules, it's common sense.


Governments need to take a more active role in understanding the ways of any culture coming into their country, just as much as those refugees should be made aware of the policies and norms in those host countries.

Agree

Local community too needs to be involved in meet and share events so that people get to interact at an individual level. These kind of things also counterbalance the sway toward intolerance from ignorance.

Good luck with that, we respect each other's privacy by pretty much ignoring each other and only meet if there is some common interest. If someone have desire to "meet and share" why not, but otherwise it would be quite awkward.
 
All assume that incoming will follow the local rules, it's common sense.
True but that wasn't really the point I was making. Think more about policies and ways of doing things. The Social Security system and its structure in one country will be a very different layout to another - even between comparable nations within the EU. Many finer etiquette points in public interaction too. An example: in the US after working at a summer camp, a group of us bought an old pick up truck with the intention of driving between various places instead of using the Greyhound. Unsure of where we were on a country road at one point, we pulled over near the driveway to a house to look at our map - still on the road and not on their land. A truck drove down partway to us and we were threatened at gunpoint ovder a loud hailer to move along, or be shot. Another example, households in the Netherlands get upset when people don't wash their windows weekly. Switzerland in a Roman Polanski film a big issue was made about non-conformist bin-bag colours choices made by Polanski as the main character, causing friction in the neighbourhood. Small things, I know but for one culture what is normal might not be in another and only experiencing confrontations surrounding these bring those difference to the fore - they aren't common knowledge because the one group assumes that all other groups think and act the same as they do. We didn't get shot at by the way, but they weren't happy even after we explained the situation.

Good luck with that, we respect each other's privacy by pretty much ignoring each other and only meet if there is some common interest. If someone have desire to "meet and share" why not, but otherwise it would be quite awkward.
It's not easy, true but I've seen it happen in the form of an open day, for anyone who was interested. The idea though could be worked upon rather than governments just expecting the situation to clear itself up - the new mayor of London Sadiq Khan seems to have ideas along these line and is very proactive in bonding the people of the capital. I think he'll be a person to watch, as he could teach us all how to do this. Community doesn't just spontaneously happen, it's something that takes a while to build. Near where I was born, in Coventry new communities were thrown together during the 50s and 60s after the city was rebuilt, mostly comprising of families that had been bombed out of their homes from all across the UK. Community took another thirty years to fully happen, until then, the estates of that city were a violent, mistrustful mess.
 


He's a real plonker.

Firstly he falls into a regular trap with Scandinavian "murder" statistics - by "murder" they mean it in the original, literal sense - mandeath or slaying. That includes suicides and accidental deaths. The current "peak" isn't statistically anomalous and should in fact be higher given the quoted population increase.

There is no "ban on Christmas lights" in Sweden - I was there a couple of weeks ago and my friends are planning the usual display on their houses, as an example. There is more rigorous enforcement of lighting on traffic poles and on use of "public electricity" for non-sanctioned displays, Sweden wouldn't be the first country to say that isn't a good idea and they won't be the last. There has been no mention in the Swedish press of this being "to avoid offending Muslims", I imagine that people will go on celebrating Christmas, Eidh, Diwali, Passover et al together just as we always do.

I suppose The Angry Foreigner is meant to add a sense of veritas to the proceedings, doesn't work though... I admit I gave up there. Perhaps you could prae se the points you found most valid?
 
Well seeing as it is November the approaching winter wouldn't be complete without the ususal "banning Christmas" stories.

They'll be telling you that Xmas is trying to take Christ away from the holiday next! Which is also complete bollocks no matter how many times it is repeated.
 
Yup everything is going swell in Sweden since the migrant influx. Just a video of old fashioned hate mongers trying to stir up evil sentiments there. Carry on.
 
Yup everything is going swell in Sweden since the migrant influx. Just a video of old fashioned hate mongers trying to stir up evil sentiments there. Carry on.

The two main points the video raises don't hold up to scrutiny. Could you please stop sulking like a child and tell us what exactly isn't old-fashioned hate mongering not based on facts but a rational point?
 
The two main points the video raises don't hold up to scrutiny. Could you please stop sulking like a child and tell us what exactly isn't old-fashioned hate mongering not based on facts but a rational point?

Here watch this video then and tell me whats wrong with these sources:



Police themselves biased or how you gonna 'scrutinize' this?
 
Here watch this video then and tell me whats wrong with these sources:



Police themselves biased or how you gonna 'scrutinize' this?


Oh, wow. Police have lost control... And now 15 year olds are throwing rocks at windows? Oh, god, roll in the tanks, that's a civil war happening right there! I was so blind!

Jokes aside, how is the situation in those Swedish neighborhoods different from that of any other low-income metropolitan neighborhood in the Western World (like, say, the suburbs of Scampia and Secondigliano in Naples, or London's Peckham and Brixton, which have been partially regenerated/gentrified in the past ten or so years, or many other examples that I am sure someone else will gladly provide)?

P.S: if you have a problem with my tone towards you, feel free to express it publicly within the estabilished boundaries of the AUP, buster. And I will stop treating you in a condescending manner when you will stop expressing your views through trite slogans and Youtube videos, or at the very least concede defeat when users prove that the things they state as facts are not true. Stop being so lazy, I'm sure you can do better.
 
Here watch this video then and tell me whats wrong with these sources:

Police themselves biased or how you gonna 'scrutinize' this?

If you want to start with Tino Sanandaji then I'd say that his far-right style of writing is less-than-palatable to many people, it's no surprise to see him pop up in this context. Despite his MBA he's never actually published any peer-reviewed work as far as I can see.. and rather "sadly" his kickstarted book on immigration hasn't made the presses yet. What a surprise that another well-known public figure with anti-immigrant views doesn't find himself welcome in an area of high immigration. I think we've been over the topic of this kind of inflammatory "journalism" before, no?

Outside of that which of the problems you describe are immigration-particular? It's already been demonstrated in this thread and others that the behaviours described, while reprehensible, occur everywhere. It's not surprising that they occur most in the densest and most economically repressed areas. Confirmation bias?

EDIT: Tree'd in part by @ClydeYellow
 
Congratulations, you've managed to trivialize everything that was raised in said videos again. "Just innocent kids throwing rocks", "it's not worse than any other ghetto", "huge increase in murder rate is excusable".

One thing i do agree on was maybe the Christmas lights, but that's just one point which you could 'scrutinize' whilst conveniently leaving out everything else that was raised.

Admitting defeat to that rhetoric? I think not. @TenEightyOne you can start about 'Tino Sanandaji', but how about those policemen and women that are followed around whilst they enter 'no go areas' in their own country? They have hidden agendas too?

P.S: if you have a problem with my tone towards you, feel free to express it publicly within the estabilished boundaries of the AUP, buster. And I will stop treating you in a condescending manner when you will stop expressing your views through trite slogans and Youtube videos, or at the very least concede defeat when users prove that the things they state as facts are not true. Stop being so lazy, I'm sure you can do better.
Try staying civilized and not comparing people to kids if the arguments or points they raise don't adhere to whatever you might think.
 
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Congratulations, you've managed to trivialize everything that was raised in said videos again. "Just innocent kids throwing rocks", "it's not worse than any other ghetto", "huge increase in murder rate is excusable".

One thing i do agree on was maybe the Christmas lights, but that's just one point which you could 'scrutinize' whilst conveniently leaving out everything else that was raised.

Admitting defeat to that rhetoric? I think not. @TenEightyOne you can start about 'Tino Sanandaji', but how about those policemen and women that are followed around whilst they enter 'no go areas' in their own country? They have hidden agendas too?

@TenEightyOne perfectly explained why the "huge increase in murder rate" in Sweden isn't so.

And while the violence levels of those neighborhoods may not be trivial it is not, again, a new phenomenon which can be simply explained as "immigrants are violent and tend to occupy certain areas". I cited the example of some of the most crime-ridden neighborhoods of Naples because the same behaviors are exhibited there by the locals.
I could concede that immigrants mostly form the new urban poor; but in any case, those no-go areas require significant investments and coherent policies that governments which are too occupied following the neoliberal folly of trickle-down economics aren't interested to produce.

Try staying civilized and not comparing people to kids if the arguments or points they raise don't adhere to whatever you might think.

I don't have a problem with you raising points that don't adhere to my values or ideas; but rather with your conduct. Please, don't ask for my consideration if all you're doing is acritically posting one Youtube video from an agenda source, and then getting pissed at people who criticize those videos for skewing statistics just to prove their point and attributing political decisions to some hypothetical agenda (conclusions should come after a mindful analysis, not before). Raise a point, and I will respect it. But you still haven't.

And as I also stated above, I am not denying that those so-called "trouble spots" - areas which are economically depressed, which see a high crime rate, and which in this specific historic period are mostly populated by immigrants from Asian and African coutnries - exist (although perhaps they're not the war-zones some kind of media makes them out to be). I am rather asking how, exactly, is this phenomenon caused by migration? What would have happened in those neighborhoods hadn't immigrants replaced the original population?

Social reality is a bit too complicated to be explained by or understood via a couple of Youtube vids.
 
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What would have happened in those neighborhoods hadn't immigrants replaced the original population?
Good chance that if those neighborhoods remained as they were before they experienced a massive influx of immigrants, you'd have a better balanced demographic and no 'ghettos' would be formed.

Problem is then made worse when said neighborhoods are filled with people that not only stem from a culture that is totally different than the Swedish one, but that they also come from countries where there was already a lawless dog eat dog way of life (Somalia or Afghanistan for example). That's just asking for trouble and trouble is what they are experiencing as a consequence.

And once it has become that way, i see no way of solving the problem other than declaring it a 'no go area' and pretend it isn't there. This is one of the dangers of uncontrolled immigration and it would be good if more people would actually recognize that.
 
Good chance that if those neighborhoods remained as they were before they experienced a massive influx of immigrants, you'd have a better balanced demographic and no 'ghettos' would be formed.

Problem is then made worse when said neighborhoods are filled with people that not only stem from a culture that is totally different than the Swedish one, but that they also come from countries where there was already a lawless dog eat dog way of life (Somalia or Afghanistan for example). That's just asking for trouble and trouble is what they are experiencing as a consequence.

And once it has become that way, i see no way of solving the problem other than declaring it a 'no go area' and pretend it isn't there. This is one of the dangers of uncontrolled immigration and it would be good if more people would actually recognize that.

Well I'm sure Chicago has immigration too. I'm pretty sure its not immigrants doing this. Watch the videos.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-year-in-two-decades/?utm_term=.d92f681073fe

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37292306
 
Good chance that if those neighborhoods remained as they were before they experienced a massive influx of immigrants, you'd have a better balanced demographic and no 'ghettos' would be formed.

Perhaps that's true. But then, how do you explain the ghettos that existed before immigration became a serious issue in Europe, or the ghettos that exist and are not populated by immigrants (like Peckham in London, which saw revolts in 2011 that exploded for the same reasons, and rival in size and furiosity the oft-talked about 2005 Paris riots)?

Those ghettos are, for the most part, a by-product of the phenomenon of shrinking cities, which in my opinion has its main cause in the growth of rent gap for under-developed suburban areas rising as a city grows. Land gets cheaper, large businesses move outside the city, and so do all of the supporting businesses and, eventually, the people that live off them. As this happens, rents drop and eventually the outskirts and industrial areas of a city become an area standing between the its financial and commercial center and the new industrial and middle-income residential zones and suburbs (which are usually connected by high-capacity roads; such is the case of Paris), with all their work (and consumption) opportunities. And guess what opportunity draws in? Poor people and, thus, criminality: both petty (and I won't delve in an ontological analysis of vandalism) and, especially when a level of cultural and ethnical homogenity sufficient to allow for the formation of clandestine organizations and the sharing of opportunities is present, motivated by greed.

Sometimes what happens is that the poor, disenfranchised inhabitants of one such neighborhood eventually develop some sort of cultural integrity that is so charming, it sets off processes of gentrification (which is the case of... Pretty much every ill-famed neighborhood of London nowadays). This only happens in cities which see a new phase of economic growth: nobody's going to open microbrew pubs in Naples ghettos anytime soon.

As I said, the immigrants are simply the latest in a long tradition of disenfranchised social groups which live in the worst neighborhoods of our cities - some working honestly, some of ill-gotten gains, some venting their frustration by breaking windows and throwing stones at police cars. On the other hand, they're also what's keeping Europe away from its impending demographic doom - the reason that immigrants aren't facing a stronger competition for those neighborhoods is not only that income and opportunities are more equally distributed than, say, in the 60s amongst native Europeans, but also that there is no new people to go live there.

Problem is then made worse when said neighborhoods are filled with people that not only stem from a culture that is totally different than the Swedish one, but that they also come from countries where there was already a lawless dog eat dog way of life (Somalia or Afghanistan for example). That's just asking for trouble and trouble is what they are experiencing as a consequence.

Indeed, the cultural attitudes of certain people are troubling - although I wouldn't say that Somalia or Afghanistan have "lawless" ways of life, although they are certainly different, bound by communitarian (i.e. tribal) rather than societal rules. But this is a problem that can be solved by dispersing immigrants through the entirety of a nation, thus forcing them to interact with people from other cultures and accepting at least the very basic rules of our society in order to access the available resources.

And once it has become that way, i see no way of solving the problem other than declaring it a 'no go area' and pretend it isn't there. This is one of the dangers of uncontrolled immigration and it would be good if more people would actually recognize that.

Declaring neighborhoods "no-go areas" and essentially abandoning them is what ineffective local (and sometimes, national) politicians've been doing for a very long time - sticking their heads in the sand and hope their constituents do the same, only to remember those areas exist when assuming a hard stance on law and order is politically convenient. There are many ways to "solving the problem" of marginalized neighborhoods - but they cost money, and spending money on the poor's always proven to be an unpopular maneuvre with little returns, and if the poor are also immigrants, it's even worse.

Alas, democracy can easily turn in a tiranny of the masses if it isn't built on solid principles. The general downfall of the European welfare state (of which the reformation of no-go ghettos is, in part, a consequence) is a testament to that.
 
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To be fair to mister dog Sweden is well known for having problems with their recent and not so recent arrivals:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ing-due-uncontrolled-immigration-no-go-zones/

https://www.rt.com/news/337334-stockholm-migrant-suburb-riots-fire/

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7363/sweden-death-by-immigration

Obviously there's the rape increase too (and no, the "but that's how Sweden reports rape" defence doesn't really hold water anymore)

But it's not all doom and gloom:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-refugee-crisis-tory-conference-a7347136.html
 
To be fair to mister dog Sweden is well known for having problems with their recent and not so recent arrivals:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ing-due-uncontrolled-immigration-no-go-zones/

https://www.rt.com/news/337334-stockholm-migrant-suburb-riots-fire/

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7363/sweden-death-by-immigration

Obviously there's the rape increase too (and no, the "but that's how Sweden reports rape" defence doesn't really hold water anymore)

But it's not all doom and gloom:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-refugee-crisis-tory-conference-a7347136.html

Interesting how almost every one of those sources has a rather clear and historic anti immigrant / Islam bias and the more balanced view comes from the one that doesn't.

I'm also not aware of any data or study that has shown the difference in Swedish crime reporting methods is no longer relevant? Could you point me in the direction of it?
 
Clyde Yellow - I'm not sure I get your point about the riots being propagated by non-immigrant communities. The two you cited were by immigrant (either 1st/2nd gen) communities?

Scaff - I was thinking more about the fact that we now know Sweden isn't an isolated case (see Cologne NYE attacks; music festival attacks etc) and the reporting after the initial story:

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7995/migrants-rape-Austria

The other thing is that the laws came into effect in 2005. However this doesn't explain the upward trend from the 70's following mass migration. Then there's Denmark....

Of course it could all be due to the weather:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...edens-place-as-the-rape-capital-of-the-world/
 
Clyde Yellow - I'm not sure I get your point about the riots being propagated by non-immigrant communities. The two you cited were by immigrant (either 1st/2nd gen) communities?

Scaff - I was thinking more about the fact that we now know Sweden isn't an isolated case (see Cologne NYE attacks; music festival attacks etc) and the reporting after the initial story:

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7995/migrants-rape-Austria

The other thing is that the laws came into effect in 2005. However this doesn't explain the upward trend from the 70's following mass migration. Then there's Denmark....

Of course it could all be due to the weather:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...edens-place-as-the-rape-capital-of-the-world/
So the that's a no then to a source for dismissing the difference in how crime us reported in Sweden.

Do you also not see a trend at all in the sources you are using and the inherent bias they have?
 
Clyde Yellow - I'm not sure I get your point about the riots being propagated by non-immigrant communities. The two you cited were by immigrant (either 1st/2nd gen) communities?

Montfermeil and Clichy-sous-Bois are suburbs predominantly populated by North African immigrants; but Tottenham, Hackney, Peckham, Enfield and Battersea are predominantly white areas with immigrants from ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds sufficiently diverse to make the assumption that they constitute a single "block" of interests unfounded. In both cases the protests were ignited by episodes of police brutality (the Clichy-sous-Bois incident in case of the former, and the death of Mark Duggan in the latter), and spread to areas in which a) unemployment was rampant, and social welfare basically non-existent and b) police often acted with excessive force and undue prejudice.
 
...areas in which a) unemployment was rampant, and social welfare basically non-existent and b) police often acted with excessive force and undue prejudice.
How is social welfare possible if there is rampant unemployment? Where would the money come from? If the police were to stand down, wouldn't that make the situation even worse?
 
How is social welfare possible if there is rampant unemployment? Where would the money come from? If the police were to stand down, wouldn't that make the situation even worse?
He quite clearly said areas of rampant unemployment, rather than the whole country.

Not to mention that asking law enforcement to be proportionate and not prejudiced doesn't mean getting them to stand down.
 
He quite clearly said areas of rampant unemployment, rather than the whole country.

Not to mention that asking law enforcement to be proportionate and not prejudiced doesn't mean getting them to stand down.
Please allow me to re-phrase that.

Dear @ClydeYellow

In general, how is social welfare possible if there is rampant unemployment? Where would the money come from? If the police lose the support of the community, their usual reaction is to stand down. If the police were to stand down, wouldn't that make the situation even worse?

Respectfully yours,
Dotini
 
In general, how is social welfare possible if there is rampant unemployment? Where would the money come from?
Still not the whole country.

If the police lose the support of the community, their usual reaction is to stand down. If the police were to stand down, wouldn't that make the situation even worse?
Not in the UK its not, a much better idea would be to look at the root cause of the issue on both sides and work towards a resolution.
 
In general, how is social welfare possible if there is rampant unemployment? Where would the money come from? If the police lose the support of the community, their usual reaction is to stand down. If the police were to stand down, wouldn't that make the situation even worse?

To answer your question, @Dotini, I was talking about the rampant unemployment of degraded city boroughs ("ghettos"), which is an exception, not the rule, in large metropolitan areas (i.e. London's current unemployment rate is at 5.8%). Those neighborhoods with cheap housing sandwiched between high-opportunity areas have always existed, albeit with some significant differences, since the modern city was born during the First Industrial Revolution.

The police losing support of the local communities is very problematic - I think we can all agree that our current social equilibrium is based on the state's exercise of the monopoly on the legitimate use of force, and in neighborhoods which are "left to fend for themselves" crime tends to become increasingly more organized and harder to root out (and its rule more pervasive and tyrnannical, which is what I find most troubling). However, most of the time this is a consequence, rather than a cause, of the degradation of those areas.
Low-income areas receive an influx of population from the peripheral areas of the economic system; those low-income areas, however, produce little tax revenue and, often, little political gains and are therefore progressively more isolated (as an example, Clichy-sous-Bois is the only inner suburb of Paris which is not served by any major motorway or railway; IIRC the closest transport hub is the RER station at Le Raincy, some 3 klicks away). People eventually come to resent this abandonment and develop a mistrust in the institutions (which you may find more or less justified) and, arguably, a survivalist sense of morality (I'll let you decide if this is a cause or a consequence of the formation of crime syndicates and diffusion of small acquisitive criminality - but I think you'll agree that poverty is a strong motivator for both phenomenons nonetheless).
At the same time, police forces which are supposed to keep the peace in those areas (which are composed of people, with their prejudices and priorities) are given less and less resources, and at the same time ordered, through law or policy, to enact more repressive policies to limit the degradation of those areas when it is not impossible to hide it from the eye of the public anymore: think of the "stop and frisk" Bratton's so fond of, or the British "sus laws", or the French police racial profiling in Paris suburbs (which is the ultimate cause of the already discussed Clichy-sous-Bois incident).
And when you have a situation of mistrustful citizens and unjust policing, it won't be long before you'll have to deal with an escalation of force which may lead to a stable situation of police deciding it's not worth the risk, or to riots, or to an alternance of both in a vicious cycle in which each time the police has to increase its presence in an area, this will result in riots sooner or later (again, Clichy-sous-bois is probably the perfect example of this tendency).

Of course, one could think of many solution - each with its pros and cons - to the problem. Poverty can be fought in many ways, and so can the poor, if one is not as inclined as I am to equalize as much as possible the opportunities available to all (which is in itself a legitimate position, albeit one that I'd find abhorrent). But the current solution - ignore the problem until it becomes impossible to do so, then apply zero tolerance policies in hope that they will bring the population of those neighborhoods back in line - clearly doesn't work.

Aaaaand this is all a big digression from the original sub-topic, which is "are slums no-go zones because they're populated by immigrants, or because they are populated by poor people, or something else, perhaps a mix of both?".
 
Here in the US we are done. Finished.
Our Southern border is being overrun. Our ICE agents cannot keep up with 1,100 apprehensions a night. The illegals only have to say they are seeking asylum, that they will be killed if returned home. The liberals open arms and they are given temp work visas.
At what point does government come together and acknowledge we can no longer afford this? There's not enough to go round anymore. Our EBT system is bloated, we are 20T in debt.
Enough. Build the damn wall.
At some point we have to focus on the citizens we have, our infrastructure, debt, and childrens futures.
That is how I feel about immigration.
 
XXI
The illegals only have to say they are seeking asylum, that they will be killed if returned home.
Ah, it's only a couple of Mexicans. Who cares if they're brutally slaughtered by the cartels so long as Americans get to sleep soundly at night. I guess it's just their bad luck that they were born in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
XXI
<...>we are 20T in debt.

And I'm sure it's because of those gosh-darn immigrants, right? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the yearly 600 bln USD on "defense" - or the 15 bln USD spent each year only on the so-called "War on Drugs" which not only hasn't had much of an impact on drug use in the US, but also kickstarted the Mexican Drug War and kept other conflicts in the area going for decades... Which is the reason you get "illegals" seeking asylum in the first place.

Apparently the US can't do without 30 nuclear subs and 5,000 MBTs, but it can leave people to die in a desert. And they call it "Home of the Brave", AH!

Enough. Build the damn wall.

AND MAKE THE DARN MEXICANS PAY FOR IT, because elsewise, I don't see how impoverished, almost famished Uncle Sam can focus on...

<...>your infrastructure

-

You know, now that I think about it... Where in the world there's a mass migration of refugees, usually the US have something to do with it, in some cases causing the crisis which is behind it (Iraq, Afghanistan, arguably most of Latin America), in some others trying to intervene where a crisis was already present and making things much worse (and oh, boy, the list gets long here: Lybia? Syria? How about Somalia?). And it's funny how you expect people to take your ****-ups in good spirits and stay in their countries to suffer in misery and violence while you enjoy one of the highest living standards in the world.
Maybe it's about time America (and Americans) stops playing Global Chief Wiggum of the world and starts taking responsibility for all its failed foreign policies, instead of keeping up this "build the wall" nonsense. Or maybe it's about the the rest of the world builds a wall around you: or perhaps just around your "overseas" military bases, since they're apparently as chock-full of rapists as you think Mexico is.

And you will excuse my sourness, but I am sick and tired of hearing Americans wailing and moaning like they live in some sort of iredeemable ****-hole of a country and yet at the same time putting themselves on top of a pedestal made of American exceptionalism and exclusivism. Which is fitting in a way, since you've become a country too big to fail and the negative consequences of th decisions your often-incompetent leaders have to take to keep you happy and pacified are felt around the world.
You are as annoying as the kind of girls who uploads pictures on Instagram complaining about how fat and ugly she is only to be told she's pretty. Get a ****ing grip on reality, man. No offense meant.
 
German integration minister: We can’t ban all child marriage

lol what's next, legal public flogging :lol:



I guess it's just their bad luck that they were born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And you feel guilty because you were born elsewhere. We know. :lol:


XXI
At some point we have to focus on the citizens we have, our infrastructure, debt, and childrens futures.

Exactly right, that's the point of government, to take care of its citizens, if they fail to do that they will be replaced. Key is to take part in the elections before it's too late, young people often don't participate but it's their good living which is at stake.
 
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