Info on how PD CGI'd the cars

  • Thread starter Thread starter gtsomething
  • 70 comments
  • 7,737 views
gtsomething

gtsomething

Messages
212
Messages
gtsomething
That title is a bad title.

I'm looking for any information/pictures relating to how the PD team photographed/scanned the cars and then turned them into CGI on the computers. I saw a couple pictures of it on the news feed a while back, but don't remember when it was. So uh...yaaaaaa, help?
 
80% were already modelled, so needed touching up.
Don't know any more sorry.
 
Thanks, I never saw the gt hd video.
 
Thanks for the info so far guys,

I remember seeing a picture.. of a car lined up with... lines... and then photographed. Anyone have any info on that?
 
Kaz looked much younger 4 years ago in that vid. Working on gt5 has really aged him.
 
gtsomething
Thanks for the info so far guys,

I remember seeing a picture.. of a car lined up with... lines... and then photographed. Anyone have any info on that?
Click to expand...
Those are used for reference only. The actual cars are modeled entirely by hand. In this case, using Maya.
 
gtsomething.. how bored are you? Seriously.

But I guess they used model cars and probably Adobe Photoshop to help them model the cars. and also, a good eye for detail.
 
Heath_1
gtsomething.. how bored are you? Seriously.

But I guess they used model cars and probably Adobe Photoshop to help them model the cars. and also, a good eye for detail.
Click to expand...

Photoshop maybe for textures but no for 3d, bored.
 
gtsomething
Thanks for the info so far guys,

I remember seeing a picture.. of a car lined up with... lines... and then photographed. Anyone have any info on that?
Click to expand...
What?

If you're trying to say you wanna learn to model cars, you better get yourself a 3D modelling tool, such as 3ds Max, and find a good tutorial.

Learning from looking at wireframed cars is the craziest thing I've ever heard. :crazy:

Heath_1
gtsomething.. how bored are you? Seriously.

But I guess they used model cars and probably Adobe Photoshop to help them model the cars. and also, a good eye for detail.
Click to expand...
Are you serious? :lol::lol::lol:
 
Heath_1
gtsomething.. how bored are you? Seriously.

But I guess they used model cars and probably Adobe Photoshop to help them model the cars. and also, a good eye for detail.
Click to expand...

Post of the decade, mate. :lol:
 
infamousDee
Post of the decade, mate. :lol:
Click to expand...

I think in Heath_1 defense, he did'nt word it clearly. PD uses Maya to create the models, but the texture maps used for things such a race livery's on the models are created with a piece of software such as Photoshop.
 
Gran Turismo have made a really good job to model the cars.

Example: The Aston martin DB9

All other games that I've played with the car in it has FAILED to model the car properly. It could be the size, the headlights and the most common one, the ride height. GT has got it just right.
 
A bit harsh here aren't we? Some people don't have much of an idea on how they are made. Isn't that why this thread was made?

I just recently graduated from a 3D Modeling program, and learned that most games that have licensed vehicles, actually get the AutoCAD files from the manufacturer, and cater those files to their needs. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case with GT, because of the sheer number of vehicles. It can take atleast 3-4 weeks for an expert modeler to model a car as accurate to what we have seen, lets say in GT4. This is providing they have had years of industry experience. I built this for my demo reel, and it took me atleast 500 hours form start to finish. I don't know the exact numbers, but the premium cars probably have somewhere in the range of 200000-300000 polygons. My model was 800000+. Most of it is in the wheels, radiator, and intercooler. I also use Maya as PD does for GT. Great 3D package, that seems to be making its way to being the norm in film, games, and the animation industry. I use it at work, home, and started learning it just 2 years ago.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AAT6PkMc8i0/TCwLYjGxF3I/AAAAAAAAACE/gqRlQO6DO0k/s1600/dirt_still_env.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AAT6PkMc8i0/TCwLdDgV7AI/AAAAAAAAACM/D9degXwoCR4/s1600/still_studio.jpg

Photoshop would have been used to paint textures. I doubt the team painted all their textures from scratch, and used alot of photo manipulation and photo reference for textures.

After going to school to learn this stuff, I look at game art and screenshots like the ones we are seeing much differently. Even through my artistic eye, the GT5 car models are simply amazing. I give PD and KY an incredible amount of credit and respect for what they have been able to show us with the premium cars so far. 200+ premium cars is an amazing feat. The people that sit here and whine about only having 200 don't know what goes into it. For PD to model these premium cars, they have to start by scheduling photo sessions so they can take thousands and thousands of photos if everything possible. That costs money if they are rare, or expensive, sought after cars (ie: Miura, 60s Le Mans race cars, hypercars, etc). Next, either scan the car with 3d technology that can record an objects surface in 3d space. If not that, start from the AutoCAD model from the manufacturer. Spend weeks refining the model for the game. Then, textures. Very tough and grueling reproducing these cars to their exact spec. I'm sure the entire process for one car can take a few months from start to finish.

Congrats PD, you have blown my mind, and it's not even November 2nd yet!
 
Falango
A bit harsh here aren't we? Some people don't have much of an idea on how they are made. Isn't that why this thread was made?

I just recently graduated from a 3D Modeling program... and started learning it just 2 years ago.

[IMAGES]

I give PD and KY an incredible amount of credit and respect for what they have been able to show us with the premium cars so far. 200+ premium cars is an amazing feat. The people that sit here and whine about only having 200 don't know what goes into it. For PD to model these premium cars, they have to start by scheduling photo sessions so they can take thousands and thousands of photos if everything possible. That costs money if they are rare, or expensive, sought after cars (ie: Miura, 60s Le Mans race cars, hypercars, etc). Next, either scan the car with 3d technology that can record an objects surface in 3d space. If not that, start from the AutoCAD model from the manufacturer. Spend weeks refining the model for the game. Then, textures. Very tough and grueling reproducing these cars to their exact spec. I'm sure the entire process for one car can take a few months from start to finish.

Congrats PD, you have blown my mind, and it's not even November 2nd yet!
Click to expand...

Awesome post, and those images of your 3d model are awesome, I'm really impressed, especially considering you only started learning 2 years ago :)
 
Falango
A bit harsh here aren't we? Some people don't have much of an idea on how they are made. Isn't that why this thread was made?

I just recently graduated from a 3D Modeling program, and learned that most games that have licensed vehicles, actually get the AutoCAD files from the manufacturer, and cater those files to their needs. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case with GT, because of the sheer number of vehicles. It can take atleast 3-4 weeks for an expert modeler to model a car as accurate to what we have seen, lets say in GT4. This is providing they have had years of industry experience. I built this for my demo reel, and it took me atleast 500 hours form start to finish. I don't know the exact numbers, but the premium cars probably have somewhere in the range of 200000-300000 polygons. My model was 800000+. Most of it is in the wheels, radiator, and intercooler. I also use Maya as PD does for GT. Great 3D package, that seems to be making its way to being the norm in film, games, and the animation industry. I use it at work, home, and started learning it just 2 years ago.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AAT6PkMc8i0/TCwLYjGxF3I/AAAAAAAAACE/gqRlQO6DO0k/s1600/dirt_still_env.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AAT6PkMc8i0/TCwLdDgV7AI/AAAAAAAAACM/D9degXwoCR4/s1600/still_studio.jpg

Photoshop would have been used to paint textures. I doubt the team painted all their textures from scratch, and used alot of photo manipulation and photo reference for textures.

After going to school to learn this stuff, I look at game art and screenshots like the ones we are seeing much differently. Even through my artistic eye, the GT5 car models are simply amazing. I give PD and KY an incredible amount of credit and respect for what they have been able to show us with the premium cars so far. 200+ premium cars is an amazing feat. The people that sit here and whine about only having 200 don't know what goes into it. For PD to model these premium cars, they have to start by scheduling photo sessions so they can take thousands and thousands of photos if everything possible. That costs money if they are rare, or expensive, sought after cars (ie: Miura, 60s Le Mans race cars, hypercars, etc). Next, either scan the car with 3d technology that can record an objects surface in 3d space. If not that, start from the AutoCAD model from the manufacturer. Spend weeks refining the model for the game. Then, textures. Very tough and grueling reproducing these cars to their exact spec. I'm sure the entire process for one car can take a few months from start to finish.

Congrats PD, you have blown my mind, and it's not even November 2nd yet!
Click to expand...

I'm sure many cars would be done from CAD models, but from what I've seen (admittedly advertising-based) they're absolute god-awful to use. Faces and edges everywhere, no flow, monstrous poly count for poor visual quality. The absolute best they can be used for is a 3D reference; build your car arount it, then delete the bugger.

Textures, especially for cars like these, are an absolute cinch. If you're finding it a grueling process, then something wrong. Unwrapping the thing is easy enough (relative term, UV's are always a pain) if you've built the thing logically, then it's into Turtle, BAKE BAKE BAKE BAKE BAKE BAKE done (A.O., Normal, etc). Then make some materials (leather, carpet, plastic, etc), apply them, tile if needed. If you need a race car, use photos (one guy has taken) and skin the bugger in Photoshop. Shouldn't take longer than a week, especially considering 99% of logos already exist. Or maybe they use some material for the exteriors of the cars, and stick a textured plane 0.001 above that for the detail. Either way, simple.

The hard part (visually) would be maximizing the quality for the poly budget, getting the edge flow and density just right, making sure you don't have any strays when you SUPERSMOOTH it before you bake, and then pumping it out.
Accuracy shouldn't be a problem if you're competent and you've got both decent blueprints and a reference model.

Don't get me wrong, I know these guys are insanely good, but it's not an impossible task, not even close. It's a very simple task, but getting it spot-on is where the skill is at.
 
Falango
A bit harsh here aren't we? Some people don't have much of an idea on how they are made. Isn't that why this thread was made?
Click to expand...
It depends on the reasons for the asking. If it's genuine curiosity, that's perfectly fine, and I'm more than happy to spill the beans. I think my problem is that I'm jaded by all the posts on CGI forums where new users want to know where the magic "Make ILM-quality CGI" button is, and they get bent out of shape when you tell them how much work is actually involved. They're not just curious, they actually want to do it, and they want a very quick and easy method that will get them outstanding results with little or no work.

I've never tried modeling an entire car before, it's definitely not easy. It's not just getting the shapes.. that part's easy.. it's getting the shapes correct. It's making the whole thing flow as a whole while maintaining accuracy to the real car, while avoiding mesh errors. My hat's off to your model, Falango, it's far better than I can do. :)

Me, I'm more of a post-effects kind of guy. I take models that other folks have built, and make 'em look good. :) For GT specifically, I enjoy watching the play of light, reflections, and shaders across the car and the environment, amazed that they're able to do so much in a real-time environment.
 
I'm amazed at how they can do all that in real-time as well. It's the new standard, just as GT1 was years ago.

Now that I think of it, I'm sure texturing isn't that bad for them, considering they can use photos they take to project, and I wouldn't doubt it if they got alot of textures from manufacturers (logos, dials, gauges, etc).

I'm sure alot of people are more curious than anything, to know the process, rather than given a lecture so they can do it themselves. Walking right into it, it's not an easy process, but to the trained professional, it's a different story.
 
Falango
I'm amazed at how they can do all that in real-time as well. It's the new standard, just as GT1 was years ago.

Now that I think of it, I'm sure texturing isn't that bad for them, considering they can use photos they take to project, and I wouldn't doubt it if they got alot of textures from manufacturers (logos, dials, gauges, etc).

I'm sure alot of people are more curious than anything, to know the process, rather than given a lecture so they can do it themselves. Walking right into it, it's not an easy process, but to the trained professional, it's a different story.
Click to expand...

I would think that there will be documentaries on the process on GT-TV in the future. I look forward to watching them.
 
Actually I asked cause I have to write a minimum 20 page report on something computer engineering related... Thought this might've been interesting topic lol.
 
I don't know if they would go that far into how the cars were made. I'd like to see a video of their tips and tricks to how they created their finctional tracks.
 
gtsomething
Actually I asked cause I have to write a minimum 20 page report on something computer engineering related... Thought this might've been interesting topic lol.
Click to expand...

This is not computer engineering related, this is more software engineering related. You could do your report on the PS3 hardware itself.
 
Jedi2016
Those are used for reference only. The actual cars are modeled entirely by hand. In this case, using Maya.
Click to expand...

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/21/how-a-car-is-scanned-for-gran-turismo-hd/

infamousDee
Post of the decade, mate. :lol:
Click to expand...

Really? This one lost it's podium spot already? https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3974283#post3974283

BlackZ28
Low blow!
Click to expand...

No really, in one of the interviews with T10 taking about how they model tracks and cars one shot showed (I believe) a yellow car with a blue tape grid stuck to it using what looked like painters tape.

It was being prepped to go into the scanner.
 
I think they used all techniques in order to make the cars. To the ones they had access to along with their owners permission they could be laser-scanned, others modeled, others from cad files. Depends. As for the number of polys, most of their time is actually spent optimizing to get the best results on a smooth surface/low poly count ratio.

I am a 3d modeler myself, the suzuki hayabusa I modeled was 500000 polys (around gts poly count) and I actually spend 6 months modeling it, so what those polyphony guys are saying is true.

http://scooterlord.gr/images/hayabusa1.jpg
http://scooterlord.gr/images/hayabusa2.jpg
http://scooterlord.gr/images/hayabusa3.jpg

So 140 people working there, 50 being modelers, game been worked for 5 years, thats 50ppl x 2 cars per year x 5 years = around 500 cars... considering there are only 200 premium models, they are either more thorough that we expect... or there are less modelers :P
 
Highly doubt there are 50 modelers. There are probably more game designers and programmers than modelers. I'd guess at 25 modelers at the most. Remember those 140 people aren't all artists. There's HR, directors, supervisors, and the technical side of the games.
 
scooterlord
I think they used all techniques in order to make the cars. To the ones they had access to along with their owners permission they could be laser-scanned, others modeled, others from cad files. Depends. As for the number of polys, most of their time is actually spent optimizing to get the best results on a smooth surface/low poly count ratio.

I am a 3d modeler myself, the suzuki hayabusa I modeled was 500000 polys (around gts poly count) and I actually spend 6 months modeling it, so what those polyphony guys are saying is true.

http://scooterlord.gr/images/hayabusa1.jpg
http://scooterlord.gr/images/hayabusa2.jpg
http://scooterlord.gr/images/hayabusa3.jpg

So 140 people working there, 50 being modelers, game been worked for 5 years, thats 50ppl x 2 cars per year x 5 years = around 500 cars... considering there are only 200 premium models, they are either more thorough that we expect... or there are less modelers :P
Click to expand...

Your work is awesome:tup:. I think there are about 40 car modelers on the team and it has been said that it takes 6 months to model the cars, so it works out to be 400 in 5 years. So I do not know why there are only 200.
 
Back